Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? - Politics (3) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum › Nairaland General › Politics › Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? (6614 Views)
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by Nobody: 1:35pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
jpphilips:Having seen your line of arguments which is derogatory to say the least, I, personally, did not believe there is any need to counter any issue raised on this thread. Your points is the numero uno in your thread, opposite opinions and facts are look down on while mere speculations from like minded people like you are cheer on. Bowing out. Good luck in your quest for "objective discourse" on Biafra. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 3:17pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
jpphilips:You are a funny individual. You write so many things without making any point. Im asking you a simple question and you are beating about the bush: On what mandate did Lord Lugard make you a Nigerian? 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by Olabestonic001(m): 3:52pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
kingzizzy:On the mandate of Her Royal Majesty, the Queen of England and on the mandates of the Great Men who caused the abolition of Slave Trades. Your fore-fathers and mine were notorious slaves traders and if anything we should thank the British for coming rather than blaming them. Do you know that Fulani expansionism would have encroach the lands of Igbo's? Do you know how savaged Igbos were to Igbos by selling their own ethnic group to slavery? Thank Lugard for giving us that structure! If Nigeria have anything to negotiate we should, rather than turning logic on its head to have an emotionally feel good euphoria. N.B: The man that blames his pasts and others for his present situation is a weakling who can not negotiate bends in life. I hope IPOB (with sympathies from some Igbos) will not cause another destruction of the whole South East; now most Igbo's are having that 'feel good' feelings the way Northerners were having it before the Boko Haram menace. Hope they wont all live to regret not speaking against IPOB when the monster begins to bite. |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 3:53pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
Ovamboland:It is interesting what you wrote however........ I'm not a Lawyer or legal expert but I do know a thing or two about the Laws of contract. Same as a woman and man will sign a marriage contract where both parties willingly and publicly give their consent to the formation of a "valid" union. Either party also reserve the right to walk out of the Union any time they wish and for whatever reason by instituting divorce proceedings. In the case of Nigeria, not only is Nigeria a fraud for there being no contractual agreement between the indigenous people of the land to enter into a union, people also insult we Igbos for demanding a divorce to a marriage that never existed in the first place. The legitimacy of Nigeria is based on the sovereign will of the people and who they lend it to. Without the consent of the people, any nation is a fraud. I want to see a document where my Igbo tribe agreed to the Union of Nigeria. Where did we agree to be Nigerians? Nigeria was created by fiat and had no shred of legitimacy. No doubt that we all benefited by the coming of the White man but that does not mean we gave up our sovereignty. So, Biafran agitators like me are insisting on a referendum to determin the fate of the British invention called Nigeria. Yes we may have voted for leaders to govern us but those leaders derive their just powers from the legitimacy of Nigeria as a nation. In the law of contract, if the main basis of the contract as stipulated is fraudulent, all other acts that follow the contract inherit that fraudulence. As of now, all elected politicians are occupying illegal positions because Nigeria was begotten from an act of illegality. |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by Nobody: 3:59pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
[s] jpphilips:[/s] RUBBISH..... Next 2 Likes |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 4:05pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
Olabestonic001:You Nigerians won't kill me with laughter. So the mandate of the queen of England superceeds the mandate of indigenous Igbos in their own land? Where did you Nigerians get this slave mentality from? The slave trade you are talking about was abolished in 1804, more than 100 years before Lugard created Nigeria in 1914. What mandate did anyone have to create Nigeria? My late Grandfather was born an Igbo man in 1902. He told me before he died that he first heard he was a Nigerian in 1920. What mandate did anyone have make my late grandfather a Nigerian? Where is the legitimacy of Nigeria? 3 Likes |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by baralatie(m): 4:09pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
kingzizzy:I think you should go through Jpphillips comments properly. he has explicitly answered your question! and you can still ask how the founding father's of Nigeria of which nnamdi azikiwe and city were legitimately part of |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by baralatie(m): 4:21pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
kingzizzy:the question of legitimacy of state is totally not only Nigeria but the whole of Africa and the world! where the the Americans get their mandate to be the u.s.a where did the Europeans get their mandate to be Greece,Luxembourg and Belgium. if you know the history of Mansa musa where did Ghana get its mandate where did Cameron get its mandate! where did Australian get its mandate. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by tonychristopher: 4:42pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
jpphilips:Another post begging Igbo not to leave 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by tonychristopher: 4:44pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
It is not every day that you return from work and read updates so full of hate with its quarter million likes by two sets of people: those who share similar hate of a particular race with the poster and those who think that liking such posts would earn them that illusionary tag of ‘good’ Nigerian. Yes, good Nigerian. To be viewed as a good Nigerian, you must put up posts that directly spew hate against Igbos. Every ‘good’ Nigerian is expected to do this – at least once in a week – for that was the face of ‘patriotism’. . And it also come with the silly idea that all of the people who want Nigeria restructure in preparation for a break up are senseless is well believed among the ‘patriotic’ Nigerians. People now put up posts to address Igbo problems which the Igbo should go and face at the command of these ‘patriotic’ Nigerians. These patriotic Nigerians will bypass Asaba, Owerri, Enugu but would quickly bring up Aba in every of their discussions. And we already know why they do these. Listening to these ‘patriotic’ Nigerians, one would begin to wonder whether all the polio-ridden beggars at every junction on major cities across Nigeria were Igbos – or that those reckless and moronic okada riders at every part of Lagos known for their heavy combination of illiteracy, arrogance and stupidity were Igbos. Or that all the illiterate meghards across Nigeria were all Igbo people. . The current hate for the Igbos now come hidden under Nnamdi Kanu and his IPOB and patriotic Nigerians now see the Kanu saga as their kitchen – where they cook up Igbo hate, wrap it with that notorious tag of ‘National interest’ and then serve it to their teeming anti-Igbo friends – who themselves are willing collaborators of Igbo hate against the Igbo. Kanu should be jailed, they is what you could read from every of their statement. But here in Lagos, Gani Adams and his OPC boys, known for their neatness and calmness, work about with guns and in some cases, unleash mayhem on the citizenry. Fulani herdsmen too are not left out in the gun carrying charade and their guns are well known to explode at the slightest provocation. But what troubles ‘patriotic’ Nigerians so much is Nnamdi Kanu’s endless noise on Radio Biafra London. I am certain that Nnamdi Kanu’s ordinary rants give these ‘patriotic’ Nigerians more sleepless nights than the OPC putting hot pepper in a girl’s vagina and the Fulani herdsmen leveling a village whose inhabitants were should I say ‘unpatriotic’ enough to question their audacity of letting their cows feed on their crops and that is if these acts give them sleepless nights at all. . One of these patriotic Nigerians, an Ijaw gentleman made an update where he rubbished Igbos with a very illogical argument. His argument was that GEJ’S government loaded its appointments with Igbos and Northerners didn’t cry, according to him, Northerners kept calm because they were more ‘politically-mature’ than the East and South South. I saw Northerners calling him ‘patriotic Nigerian’ and dude became a super star with so many fans willing to cheer him to his grave – provided he’s willing to die hating Igbo. In the first comment, I asked one Abdul if he was actually sure that Northerners during GEJ where not wailing and he said yes, so I copied two of their wails and posted to him. Then in my second comment, I challenged the Poster who also commented that Northerners are the true Nigerians because they don’t mind who rules Nigeria. I agreed with him that Northerners are the true Nigerians – true Nigerians means nothing to me but unconscious slaves – and you would agree with me later as we progress. But I disagreed with him that Northern don’t mind who riles Nigeria – it is on the contrary, their wish – to always rule Nigeria. I asked him if it was people from Saudi Arabia that killed 450 youth coppers in Kano and Kaduna and burned people’s offices and cars when GEJ was declared winner in 2011. Of course, that was how far I went: the ijaw dude thinking I was about to damage his popularity and his presumed elevation to a star quickly came and hit the block button. An Ijaw dude who ironically many of my Igbo pals would die defending their kinsman. And yours faithfully heaved with the knowledge that my words are still there like the popular ‘uli’. . One cannot deny the fact however that there are lots of miscreants on Radio Biafra as there are lots of miscreants in Oduduwa page, Arewa pages and even Proudly Ijaw. Miscreants exist everywhere even in that street where you live. Since every part of this country have its own fare share of miscreants, commonsense says ‘patriotic’ Nigerians should focus on their own area. My mother use to tell me those in Igbo: ‘koo n’ubi I’ which in English means weed on your own farm. Every farm had weeds, why not concentrate on weeding your own farm first before telling your neighbor to weed his or hers? And do you imagine your sanity is still intact when you leave your weed infested farm to discuss the weed in that of your neighbor? And if I may ask, why always threatening the Igbos with war whenever they want to opt out? I mean, who the hell wants to fight Igbo people if they want to opt out? I know you are mischievous, for you would never read the great AHIARA DECLARATION and judge the Igbo people with it but would rather visit RADIO BIAFRA LONDON, a playground for the ill-informed and judge the rest Igbo people who wants an opt out with it. Why exactly have you refused to judge them with the AHIARA DECLARATION? Oh you haven’t? So below is an excerpt from the AHIARA DECLARATION, Maybe a glimpse at it would knock some sense right into your head to know exactly what the Igbo and co wanted. . NEGRO RENAISSANCE ‘We do not claim that the Biafran Revolution is the first attempt in history by the Negro to assert his identity, to claim his right and proper place as a human being on a basis of equality with the white and yellow races. We are aware of the Negro’s past and present efforts to prove his ability at home and abroad. We are familiar with his achievements in prehistory; we are familiar with his achievements in exploring and taming the African and American continents; we are familiar with his achievements in political organisations; we are familiar with these contributions to the world store of art and culture. The Negro’s white oppressors are not unaware of all these. But in spite of their awareness they are not prepared to admit that the Negro is a fellow human and colleague. This is why we in Biafra are convinced that the Negro can never come to his own until he is able to build modern states (whether national or multi-national) based on a compelling African ideology, enjoying real rather than sham independence, able to give scope to the full development of the human spirit in the arts and sciences, able to engage in dialogue with the white states on a basis of transparent equality and able to introduce a new dimension into international statecraft. In the world context, this is Biafra - the plight of the black struggling to be man. From this derives our deep conviction that the Biafran Revolution is not just a movement of Igbo, Ibibio, Ijaw and Ogoja. It is a movement of true and patriotic Africans. It is African nationalism conscious of itself and fully aware of the powers with which it is contending. From this derives our belief that history and humanity are on our side, and that the Biafran Revolution is indestructible and eternal.’ . Read that… ^ of course you would quickly remove the Ijaw, Ibibio and Ogoja from the list, but what difference does it make? . One patriotic Nigeria says those Igbos in support of secession are not sensible and perhaps, the whole Igbo cowards would rush to click ‘like’ on that irresponsible post. I am partially responding to that update now, because I support the idea of Africans creating their own states and not the slave markets created for them by the people who until now, believe strongly that negroes are not supposed to create nations for themselves unless it was approved by a European nation. ‘Patriotic’ Nigerian, you are an unconscious slave. I would have written a direct reply to you and your type who are too pompous to realize that they are still slaves but let me reply you in English language – that language whose owners sent my father away from their School in his own village for speaking his own language. I will reply you in this language forced upon us by the people who wanted to wipe away any trait of our Africanism and replace it with theirs. I will reply you with the language of the same people whom my forefathers died resisting their enslavement in that ekumeku war and the Aba women riot. . I knew you were ignorant of the fact that some people in search of treasure, bounced upon your ancestors and at gun point, made them their subjects and that your ancestors were killed in great numbers by these treasure seeking folks. I knew too that you are unaware that someone forced a group of Afro-Asiatic people and another group of kwa people into what he calls nation because of the Berlin conference – yes Berlin conference. You are too pompous in your ignorance to know too that why they forced these different people into a nation was because France and Britain already have too many territories in Africa – territories dubiously labeled theirs when the owners are still alive and kicking but were held captive by strangers they welcomed to their lands. Your ancestors, ‘patriotic’ Nigerian are among these captives whose land were about to be allocated to strangers in a strange land and without their consents. Britain in other to avoid losing much of their territories, decided to play a trick: the trick was to group up to five of the territories they stole which share common boundary together and call them one name while still stealing from the people. Patriotic Nigerian, the place tagged Niger republic, Cameroun and the place tagged Republic of Benin would’ve been grouped into the place tagged Nigeria if these places and their inhabitants were not held hostage by different bandits. . You hate Igbos for wanting to opt out of a union created without their consent. You wanted the Igbo to remain in a union they never liked: a union their fathers died resisting at the Ekumeku war and the Douglass war near Owerri. You want the Igbos to remain in a union which one of their sons, King Jaja of Opobo fought and died resisting. You wanted the Igbo to remain in a union created by people who are proud of creating it because that to them is how the Negros will remain – anywhere the Europeans placed them. The Igbos according to you should remain royal and educated slave just like yourself. They must remain where the master placed all of us and they become senseless whenever they have the audacity to say ‘no, we can’t be in this cage we are better than this, we are not Nigerians but Igbos. We speak Igbo like the people of England speak English and the Chinese speak Chinese and in Germany, they speak German…’? . The Igbos says they want to be Igbos or Biafrans. They are not doing so because being Igbo or Biafra will land them in a land flowing with milk and honey. No, but while we cannot rule the possibility of such happenstance considering the cases of Malaysia vs. Singapore, India vs. Pakistan, North Korea vs. South Korea etc. I know you normally use South Sudan to blackmail Igbos and to spread fear. But as it is, the Igbos seems to also know of the nations I mentioned because unlike you, most Igbos are not silly. South Sudan has not arrived, b ut they certainly would in no distance time and I hope you stay alive to run their in search of greener pastures. I know you would because you don’t have shame and you are good at eating humble pies. But what would you say if in ten years time, South Sudan finally shakes off the long damage done to it from the long abusive union with ‘Sudan’? Or are you already insinuating that they would not come out of the crises even as evidence all suggest that they are coming out? . Freedom does not come on a platter of gold, it comes with a price – and that price could mean suffering for some years. I believe the Igbos would rather suffer for some years than remain loyal slaves because they are too afraid to leave their comfort zone like you and your fellow patriotic Nigerians. You wanted igbos to join you in making Nigeria, a British cage ‘better for your selves and your children who probably would have become full-time English-speaking and westernized slaves by the time because you, their parents were not brave enough to understand that 50 million Yoruba are enough to form a Yoruba land and speak Yoruba language as obtainable in free INDEPENDENT nations around the globe. Freedom is a problem on its own albeit a ‘progressive’ problem. For in freedom, we are in charge and being in charge entails responsibilities. You are responsible for solving problems. So cut that ridiculous thought of yours that Igbos when they pull out would encounter problems. Don’t forget that their inclusion into your Niger area was a problem to them and by opting out, they have solved one problem. Problems are precarious, the solution to one problem will always bring us face-to-face with another problem and each problem solved is a step up the ladder. Nations, communities and individuals grow by solving problems. . Mr and Mrs patriotic Nigerian, I would leave you lots in your ignorance and cowardice but the knowledge that you and I are Africanly connected will not allow me. By the way, is that signboard that reads ‘WE ONLY SPEAK ENGLISH HERE’ still at the entrance of your kid’s school dear patriotic Nigerians? Is your dear Nigeria still a member of Islamic countries? do people, I mean your fellow Nigerians still b urn houses, kill Igbo people and destroy offices over a cartoon drawn in far away Denmark? I will leave you however to remain a patriotic Nigerian as against a Yoruba or Hausa or Igbo because it is now a fact that you can never do away with your slavish tag because you are afraid of the unknown. Birds in a cage usually think within themselves that flying is a disease. You can stay in your comfort zone, that is right but do sincerely accept the fact that you are a miseducated and ignorant coward. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 4:49pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
baralatie:Sorry to disappoint you but Nnamdi Azikiwe, Awolowo and ther nationalist did not found Nigeria, what they did was to seek self rule. My question was, on who's madate was Nigeria created? 2 Likes |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 4:56pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
baralatie:I am not an Australian, nor am I from Belgium. I am in Igbo man who is asking on what authority was I made a Nigerian? What gives anybody the right to call me Nigerian when I never gave my consent to be one. The legitimacy of Nigeria is at the very heart of the demand for a referendum. Nigeria has no legitimacy and that is why a referendum must be conducted to know a Nigerian is. Simply put, Nigeria is an illegal entity. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by jpphilips(op): 7:02pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
kingzizzy:On whose mandate was your grandfathers traded as slaves? |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by jpphilips(op): 7:16pm On Nov 17, 2015*. Modified: 12:24pm On May 16, 2016 |
kingzizzy:A biafran agitator who wants to leave an illegitimate Nigeria will drag along an unwilling niger delta legitimately  Have you heard Anku Briggs the niger delta activist who represented them in the SNC speak on this subject? those are the kinda people i listen to not Nnamdi Kanu who represent the Igbo interest in the prison cell. Since Lugard did you a disfavor I need you to present to me a document of consent from Niger delta that they are pro Biafra, I want to be sure you are not about to create another fraud like the Nigeria you so despise. I will be the happiest man the day a South East Biafra will come to life. 5 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by jpphilips(op): 7:34pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
tonychristopher:Funny, I can't wait to see a South East Biafra, so long as that madness is confined in the East, I won't blink an eye, trust me 2 Likes |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by jpphilips(op): 7:43pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
kingzizzy:On whose consent were you made an Igbo man? couldn't you have been Hausa -Fulani at the very least? Even educated Igbos who should know better that a true Igbo son "MUST" be a descendant of Nri, yet they claim Itoro in Efik is their brother and Asari in Ijaw is their god while the Niger delta oil is theirs for the taking, thieves!! 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by baralatie(m): 9:01pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
kingzizzy:like I said and your question goes generally across board.who is an Australian?who is a Belgian?who gave anybody to make boundaries?who gave anybody the right to say the continent will find yourself is called Africa?who said you are Igbo by definition when you are a Jew? who even said Igbo are Africans sef? |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 9:58pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
jpphilips:I'm happy that you have exposed your self as another Nigerian who has nothing to say. I expressly said that we Biafrans want a referendum in the South of Nigeria so that the indigenous people can decide what they want. But you are coming up with every reason to uphold the fraud of Lugard called Nigeria. It is actually people like you that are dragging other people into an illegitimate union. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 10:01pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
baralatie:And that is why a referendum must be conducted in Nigeria so that the indigenous people can answer these questions for themselves. |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 10:04pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
jpphilips:And one fraud begets another fraud............... Laughable |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by baralatie(m): 10:15pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
kingzizzy:fortunately every geographical creation from Australia to south Africa have derived their self rule and all parties represented by each political representation have signed all documentation. so basically a reorganisation of the world geographical design is considered a treasonable offense! |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by SonOfEl(m): 6:18am On Nov 18, 2015 |
jpphilips:Too late...we have been taken seriously already..so keep your submissions. Buhari himself is not the answer. Suddenly, APC propaganda transforms him into an incorruptible detribalised saviour....well, we know better. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by kingzizzy: 9:03am On Nov 18, 2015 |
baralatie:Nigerian mentality is just too backward. The people own the land, the land never owns the people. If you want a country, you must first seek the permission of the indigenous people of the land. Without it, you have no country. How did you think that Lugard can come from Europe to give you your country? Britain that created Nigeria granted Scotland referendum last year. Unless the indigenous people that make up Nigeria such as Igbos, Ibibios, Efiks, Ijaws etc are granted the right to decide their destiny in a referendum, there will never be peace in Nigeria. Nigeria is not "by force" 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by jpphilips(op): 10:31am On Nov 18, 2015 |
kingzizzy:Where is your application for a referendum? on whose mandate are you conducting a referendum on Ijaw soil as an Igbo man? Does it not occur to you that some school of thought will say, no referendum we are just not interested? Which other illegality do you intend to concoct? i care less what you think about people like me, people like you hide behind correcting an illegality using illegal processes that's a clear difference between you and I. 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by jpphilips(op): 8:40am On Dec 30, 2015 |
kingzizzy:The constitution of Nigeria that ensponged plebiscite or referandum was it made by the British too? |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by Ovamboland(m): 10:53pm On Jan 27, 2016 |
SonOfEl:Since Nigeria is not civilized and a failure what's the point of expecting a peaceful referendum? Since Lugard forced ibos into the union, it appears only force can set ibos free, wishing you luck in your adventures. just don't cry later somebody did not support your aspirations |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by Sunky200: 11:32pm On Jan 27, 2016 |
this tori dey sweet my belle |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by SonOfEl(m): 7:22am On Jan 28, 2016 |
Ovamboland:Thank God the world is a global village, thank God for a thing as the UN referendum, thank God for the industry and never-say-die spirit of the pro biafran mind. Your support is not and never needed. Keep it for your northern masters 1 Like |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by jpphilips(op): 12:07pm On May 16, 2016 |
SonOfEl:Interesting, kindly tell me about Igbo political failures like Mbadinuju, ochendo Orji etc, perhaps Anambra and Abia will likely be "Amputated" from biafra for biafra to make progress right? till Biafra is left without limbs, let me see the unity of the Biafra people to deal with ordinary herdsmen, then I will tell you whether or not Biafra will succeed. 2 Likes |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by SonOfEl(m): 11:43pm On May 16, 2016 |
jpphilips:Its obvious you don't understand what I posted. is mbadinuju (or orji) anambra (or abia) state? Dude, read it again. |
| Re: Is It Marginalization Or Refusal To Accept The Agony Of Defeat? by Nobody: 11:56pm On May 16, 2016 |
Is you ,you have to change. lol The change is here to stay Every thing must change long live |
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