carnegiefan:


Look, you are still missing the point.
Germany is a rational actor, that is why you have not seen anybody attack them.
Militarily, Germany is a more formidable foe than Turkey.

I once watched a documentary that convinces me that some few individuals want to wipe out about 98% of human population.
Those people have build huge underground bunkers where they will hibernate with their families when the missiles start flying.
After the rest of humans are dead, they will emerge from their hibernation, to "inherit the earth".
Ordinary folks like you and me should simply pray for peace.
No need glorifying anybody.

USA and Turkey were the main reasons USSR never even dreamt of anything foolish against West Germany during the cold war. This is not the first time Turkey and Russia have engaged each other in military fight. Per the bolded, the statement is unfounded insinuation.

Turkey

Obiagu1:


Do you know how many tunnels they've tried to dig into the South?
They will overrun the South if they perceive they have a chance because they are both still technically at war.
Seoul is not faraway from the DMZ.

I guess you did read about the first North and South Korean war. South Korea has further advanced in military procurement than the period of 50s. Besides China and USSR, there should be no North Korea today. As of today, there is no USSR and China would not want to engage in a war that will involve USA and its allies.

DerideGull:


Of course, Turkey will apologize because of the enormous economic co-operation between Turkey and Russia. However such apology is not born out fear due to military retaliation from Russia.

Then why try to play tough under the cover of NATO?
It's not the economic sanctions that will make Turkey buckle rather the realisation that NATO will not intervene.
This is not NATO's problem.

Every NATO member knows that Turkey are the key beneficially of ISIS presence in Syria and Iraq.
Cheap oil deals and Erdogan's infantile feud with Assad.
Russia is wiping out his useless Turkmen in northern Syria and he's pissed off that his dream of removing Assad is about to crumble and wants to start a war under the cover of NATO.

Even the mighty US backed down a bit since the entrance of Russia in the play but stupid Erdogan wants to start a war with Russia.

Trust me, Europeans will kick Turkey out of NATO if this continues. All the big players in NATO know Russian capabilities and have avoided direct conflict with them for decades only for Turkey to create tension.

I don’t blame Turkey, they don't know Russian's might until they hit them.

DerideGull:


USA and Turkey were the main reasons USSR never even dreamt of anything foolish against West Germany during the cold war. This is not the first time Turkey and Russia have engaged each other in military fight. Per the bolded, the statement is unfounded insinuation.

You seem to still want to glorify Turkey.
Let me put it this way; without NATO, Turkey is a third world country that Russia can easily wipe out within a day or two.
Russia has NO reason whatsoever to attack Germany, NATO or no NATO.
Now, which country is more secure?
The past is the past.
We want a peaceful future for God's earth.

Obiagu1:


Then why try to play tough under the cover of NATO?
It's not the economic sanctions that will make Turkey buckle rather the realisation that NATO will not intervene.
This is not NATO's problem.

Every NATO member knows that Turkey are the key beneficially of ISIS presence in Syria and Iran.
Cheap oil deals and Erdogan's infantile feud with Asad.
Russia is viping out his useless Turkmen in northern Syria and he's pissed off that his dream of removing Asad is about to crumble and wants to start a war under the cover of NATO.

Even the mighty US backed down a bit since the entrance of Russia in the play but stupid Erdogan wants to start a war with Russia.

Trust me, Europeans will kick Turkey out of NATO if this continues. All the big players in NATO know Russian capabilities and have avoided direct conflict with them for decades only for Turkey to create tension.

I don’t blame Turkey, they don't know Russian's might until they hit them.

Turkey did not play tough but exercised the sovereign right as an independent nation which air space was violated by a reckless country.

carnegiefan:


You seem to still want to glorify Turkey.
Let me put it this way; without NATO, Turkey is a third world country that Russia can easily wipe out within a day or two.
Russia has NO reason whatsoever to attack Germany, NATO or no NATO.
Now, which country is more secure?
The past is the past.
We want a peaceful future for God's earth.

But Russia and Turkey had fought each other several times yet Turkey is standing. If Russia has no reason to attack Germany, it goes that Russia will have no reason to attack any other nation. Russia violated Turkey's airspace and its plane was downed period.

DerideGull:


Turkey did not play tough but exercised the sovereign right as an independent nation which air space was violated by a reckless country.

Do you know how many times Turkey violated Syrian airspace this year?
Do you know how many times Turkey violated Greece's airspace?
How many Turkish planes were shot down?
Double standards is the basic building block for a future war.
All lovers of peace should not support Turkey on this.

DerideGull:


But Russia and Turkey had fought each other several times yet Turkey is standing. If Russia has no reason to attack Germany, it goes that Russia will have no reason to attack any other nation. Russia violated Turkey's airspace and its plane was downed period.

First bolded: That was pre-nuke era?
Second bolded: Would Turkey have shot down a Russian plane if Turkey were not a member of NATO?

DerideGull:


Turkey did not play tough but exercised the sovereign right as an independent nation which air space was violated by a reckless country.

Sovereign right?
Sovereign right to continue buying ISIS cheap oil?

Look, Russian data showed that the plane stayed over Syrian air space all those time.
Turkey data showed that if the plane entered Turkey air space, it did so for only 17 secs and was shot down while over Syrian air space.
So is that a violation?
Shooting down a plane without warning?
Are there no rules of engagement?

The reason Russia haven't done anything yet is their primary objective; protect Asad and empower his army.
This is just an unnecessary distraction that will complicate things.

As it stands now, I doubt Turkey planes will enter Syrian air space again.

carnegiefan:


Do you know how many times Turkey violated Syrian airspace this year?
Do you know how many times Turkey violated Greece's airspace?
How many Turkish planes were shot down?
Double standards is the basic building block for a future war.
All lovers of peace should not support Turkey on this.

If Turkey had violated the airspace of Syria or Greece, it is left with Syria or Greece to act accordingly. If Turkey violates Israeli's airspace with impunity, Turkey's plane will be downed without warning. Rule of engagement is simple in the matter of airspace violation. When you are warned about the violation, the pilot should complier to the warnings or risk being shot down.

trapQ:
the fear of Putin

Who is spreading all this false news? are the Russians paying some people in nigeria,because TURKEY WARN RUSSIA THIS MORNING NOT TO PLAY WITH FIRE,simply because russian detain some russians working in turkish company in russia

carnegiefan:


Do they have 8500 nukes?

The amount is inconsequential, but the US don't look around from countries with Nukes.

Note :Turkey's NUKES are operated by NATO

carnegiefan:


First bolded: That was pre-nuke era?
Second bolded: Would Turkey have shot down a Russian plane if Turkey were not a member of NATO?

Russia have won every war against Turkey since the last Ottoman victory in 1739.
They are no mates not even now that technology plays a big role in wars.

carnegiefan:


First bolded: That was pre-nuke era?
Second bolded: Would Turkey have shot down a Russian plane if Turkey were not a member of NATO?

Turkey will still engage Russia in a military show down conventionally. It will be foolhardy for Russia to think nuclear in any military engagement with a country such as Turkey. Of course, Turkey would have done the same NATO or not. If Russia violates Israeli's airspace with impunity, the Russia plane shall be downed in a hurry. It is not out of ordinary that Russian defense minister had to travel to Israel to meet with Israeli prime minister before all these military shenanigans in Syria.

carnegiefan:
I don't like Russians mainly because they lie a lot. I hate lairs with a passion.
Having said that, Turkey is being irresponsible by its actions in Syria.
Just out of curiosity I researched conventional military of both Russia and Turkey and confirmed what I thought.

Amormed fighting vehicles:
Russia: 31,298
Turkey:7,550

Main Battle Tanks:
Russia: 15,398
Turkey:3,778

Self propelled guns:
Russia: 5,972
Turkey: 1,013

Towed artillery:
Russia: 4,625
Turkey:697

Rocket Launching systems:
Russia: 3,793
Turkey: 811

]Fighters/Interceptors:
Russia: 769
Turkey:223

Attack Aircrafts:
Russia: 1,305
Turkey:223

Attack Helicopters:
Russia: 462
Turkey: 59

Naval:
Submarines:
Russia: 55
Turkey:13

Total vessels:
Russia: 352
Turkey: 115


Available manpower for military:
Russia:69,117,271
Turkey:41,637,773


Nukes apart, Russia can walk all over Turkey militarily, and very easily.
That beggars the question: WHY did Turkey do this, bearing in mind that Turkey violates Syrian airspace almost daily?
Only one answer is reasonable: Turkey wanted to cause a war between Russia and NATO.
A war between Russia and NATO is a NUCLEAR war.

So, WHY did Turkey do this?

I now understand why Germany pulled its Patriot Missile batteries from Turkey.
German is a FIRST WORLD country and won't play stu.pid games with NATO assets.
Turkey is a THIRD WORLD country with a dictator president, who thinks he is a god.
Also Turkey is an Islamic state.
Why is an Islamic country which was rejected membership of the EU still in NATO?
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO before it is too late.

My 2 cents is that Putin wants other NATO members to kick Turkey out (or at the very least divide NATO); that is why he has not responded militarily...yet.

All peace lovers on this earth should pray for peace.

You should be comparing with NATO and not Turkey because any Russian war or attack is against NATO and not Turkey.

You lazy Putin fanboys are just too clueless....

And whats Islamist country got to do with anything. Or you are into religious bigotry too.?

Obiagu1:


Russia have won every war against Turkey since the last Ottoman victory in 1739.
They are no mates not even now that technology plays a big role in wars.

There is difference between winning a battle and war over a country.

DerideGull:


Turkey will still engage Russia in a military show down conventionally. It will be foolhardy for Russia to think nuclear in any military engagement with a country such as Turkey. Of course, Turkey would have done the same NATO or not. If Russia violates Israeli's airspace with impunity, the Russia plane shall be downed in a hurry. It is not out of ordinary that Russian defense minister had to travel to Israel to meet with Israeli prime minister before all these military shenanigans in Syria.

Dude honestly your logic is deeply flawed and incoherent.
If every country starts shooting down all warplanes entering its territory, the world would be in flames by now.
There is a measure of restraint expected of every civilized country.
Even the US overlooks Russian "bears" wandering into US territories. Does that make US weak?
Turkey has simply demonstrated that it is not a civilized country and should not be in NATO.
And to think that Turkey would have still acted the same way if its not a NATO country is pure delusion.

At topic. Where is the apology?

Stop lying...

arresa:




You should be comparing with NATO and not Turkey because any Russian war or attack is against NATO and not Turkey.

You lazy Putin fanboys are just too clueless....

And whats Islamist country got to do with anything. Or you are into religious bigotry too.?

Some of you lack reading and comprehension skills.
Did you read the comment at all.
What makes me "Putin fanboy"? Because I called out Turkey's stu.pid actions, which some ex-CIA analysts have also done?
You people are sick in the head.

carnegiefan:


Dude honestly your logic is deeply flawed and incoherent.
If every country starts shooting down all warplanes entering its territory, the world would be in flames by now.
There is a measure of restraint expected of every civilized country.
Even the US overlooks Russian "bears" wandering into US territories. Does that make US weak?
Turkey has simply demonstrated that it is not a civilized country and should not be in NATO.
And to think that Turkey would have still acted the same way if its not a NATO country is pure delusion.

Mr. Coherent Logic, per the bolded showed you know nothing about military and policy. The measure of restraint is also applied in making sure nobody's airspace is violated both in time of war or peace. In this case, the Russian bomber was armed and engaged in air to surface fight over the Syrian and Turkish border. The Russians have been warmed severally by the Turks over the violation of Turkey's airspace. This is war situation where the Russians violated Turkey's airspace that warranted the scramble of jet fighters.

The Russian long range bombers while unarmed have strayed into USA air space during training missions and instantly met by USA F-15 interceptors which forced the bombers to change course and speed. This is a peace time scenario and if the bombers had maintained course and speed, the result of the action will be a downed bomber.

Obiagu1:


The funny thing is that when Russia finally retaliates, NATO will not come to Turkey aid.

Turkey downed the plane for a purpose but their strategy is not going to work. You shoot down a Russian bomber, ran to NATO to complain but NATO tactically are backing off leaving Turkey to their fate.

NATO alliance comes to play only when a member is attacked but that's not the case here.
Turkey are on their own.

Trust thoughtful Europeans, they told the Turkish idiot to get lost.

carnegiefan:


Some of you lack reading and comprehension skills.
Did you read the comment at all.
What makes me "Putin fanboy"? Because I called out Turkey's stu.pid actions, which some ex-CIA analysts have also done?
You people are sick in the head.

I read your post perfectly and responded adequately.

1. Your weapons comparison made no sense since any war won't be against just Turkey, but NATO.

2. Russia violated Turkey's airspace not once, they did 3 times even after many warnings and complaints.

Obviously, Russia was testing Turkey's/NATOs defences and got burnt. They got what they bargained for.

Putin is a freaking bully and Turkey called his bluff.

I'm 100% sure he won't do it again.

Btw. There's nothing stupidd about defending your airspace and territorial integrity...

carnegiefan:


Dude honestly your logic is deeply flawed and incoherent.
If every country starts shooting down all warplanes entering its territory, the world would be in flames by now.
There is a measure of restraint expected of every civilized country.
Even the US overlooks Russian "bears" wandering into US territories. Does that make US weak?
Turkey has simply demonstrated that it is not a civilized country and should not be in NATO.
And to think that Turkey would have still acted the same way if its not a NATO country is pure delusion.

US is not NATO or Western Europe.

Turkey is the buffer country between Russia and Western Europe and any unchallenged Russian free movement into Turkey means insecurity and security threat to Western Europe and NATO.

NATO is no blind to Russia's aggression and willingness to test NATO's defences and the fact that the US did not respond to Russians moves doesn't mean NATO won't or shouldn't.

What makes you think Turkey's response wasn't a NATO gameplan or coordination to tell Russia to back
off Turkey/NATO airspace.

Last I checked, NATO and the US are backing Turkey's decision 100%, even if Turkey have to apologize to Russia later on, but the overall message to Russia is out there loud and clear. You won't mess with our airspace or test our defences and go free without getting bruised.

What is Russia doing? Sending S-400 to syria and banning vegetables from Turkey..

Russia have little cards to play and they know it.

DerideGull:


USA and Turkey were the main reasons USSR never even dreamt of anything foolish against West Germany during the cold war. This is not the first time Turkey and Russia have engaged each other in military fight. Per the bolded, the statement is unfounded insinuation.

Russia defeated Turkey three times out of the four times they fought.

ibedun:


Trust thoughtful Europeans, they told the Turkish idiot to get lost.

Nato ready to 'defend' Turkey as Russia strikes Syria


Nato is ready to send troops to Turkey to defend against threats on its southern flank, the head of the alliance has said following violations of Turkish airspace by Russian jets conducting airstrikes in Syria.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/08/nato-ready-to-deploy-forces-to-defend-turkey-against-any-threats

NATO: We Fully Support Turkey's Decision to Shoot Down Russian Jet
After 'extraordinary meeting' NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg declares that 'we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO Ally, Turkey'

http://russia-insider.com/en/nato-secretary-general-we-stand-solidarity-turkey/ri11422

I wonder why you people don't read the news or keep up with current affairs before opening your mouth..

OAUTemitayo:
Russia defeated Turkey three times out of the four times they fought.

That was when again? Russia won't be fighting just Turkey this time around..

DerideGull:


Mr. Coherent Logic, per the bolded showed you know nothing about military and policy. The measure of restraint is also applied in making sure nobody's airspace is violated both in time of war or peace. In this case, the Russian bomber was armed and engaged in air to surface fight over the Syrian and Turkish border. The Russians have been warmed severally by the Turks over the violation of Turkey's airspace. This is war situation where the Russians violated Turkey's airspace that warranted the scramble of jet fighters.

The Russian long range bombers while unarmed have strayed into USA air space during training missions and instantly met by USA F-15 interceptors which forced the bombers to change course and speed. This is a peace time scenario and if the bombers had maintained course and speed, the result of the action will be a downed bomber.

Same Turkey that violate the airspace of Syria on daily basis for the past four years.
they have even engaged in military operations in northern Syria without the consent of the legitimate government of Syria.
Does that speaks good of Turkey to now shoot down a plane when its own planes violate Syrian airspace on daily basis?

arresa:



That was when again? Russia won't be fighting just Turkey this time around..

You are tactically supporting terrorism.
turkey, Saudi Arabia and all this gulf countries are the one who using Isis to destabilise Syria because of shia/sunni debacle.
Deep inside you you know Russia is right for supporting Syria against Saudi terrorists.
If you really value human lives, you will not support the arming of this Syrian rebels who are fond of eating human hearts.
reflect about it and put yourself in the position of Libyans, Iraqis and Afghans who have their lives destroyed by western exportation of Democracy

carnegiefan:
I don't like Russians mainly because they lie a lot. I hate lairs with a passion.
Having said that, Turkey is being irresponsible by its actions in Syria.
Just out of curiosity I researched conventional military of both Russia and Turkey and confirmed what I thought.

Amormed fighting vehicles:
Russia: 31,298
Turkey:7,550

Main Battle Tanks:
Russia: 15,398
Turkey:3,778

Self propelled guns:
Russia: 5,972
Turkey: 1,013

Towed artillery:
Russia: 4,625
Turkey:697

Rocket Launching systems:
Russia: 3,793
Turkey: 811

]Fighters/Interceptors:
Russia: 769
Turkey:223

Attack Aircrafts:
Russia: 1,305
Turkey:223

Attack Helicopters:
Russia: 462
Turkey: 59

Naval:
Submarines:
Russia: 55
Turkey:13

Total vessels:
Russia: 352
Turkey: 115


Available manpower for military:
Russia:69,117,271
Turkey:41,637,773


Nukes apart, Russia can walk all over Turkey militarily, and very easily.
That beggars the question: WHY did Turkey do this, bearing in mind that Turkey violates Syrian airspace almost daily?
Only one answer is reasonable: Turkey wanted to cause a war between Russia and NATO.
A war between Russia and NATO is a NUCLEAR war.

So, WHY did Turkey do this?

I now understand why Germany pulled its Patriot Missile batteries from Turkey.
German is a FIRST WORLD country and won't play stu.pid games with NATO assets.
Turkey is a THIRD WORLD country with a dictator president, who thinks he is a god.
Also Turkey is an Islamic state.
Why is an Islamic country which was rejected membership of the EU still in NATO?
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO before it is too late.

My 2 cents is that Putin wants other NATO members to kick Turkey out (or at the very least divide NATO); that is why he has not responded militarily...yet.

All peace lovers on this earth should pray for peace.

Thump up for you. That is the question alot of people still cant answer, but you just gave one plausible right answer.

DerideGull:



Per the bolded in colors, Russia will not even think of engaging Turkey in a military show down because of Turkey's affiliation with NATO.

Do you really think NAtO with the likes of France, Germany, Greece, and even the UK would go to war because of Turkey:-) ?

OAUTemitayo:
You are tactically supporting terrorism.
turkey, Saudi Arabia and all this gulf countries are the one who using Isis to destabilise Syria because of shia/sunni debacle.
Deep inside you you know Russia is right for supporting Syria against Saudi terrorists.
If you really value human lives, you will not support the arming of this Syrian rebels who are fond of eating human hearts.
reflect about it and put yourself in the position of Libyans, Iraqis and Afghans who have their lives destroyed by western exportation of Democracy

What's it with you guys and lame arguments.

So anyone not supporting ya Russia is supporting the terrorist.

So you guys expect Turkey to sleep with two eyes closed while run around the house.

Turkey is has accommodated more Syrian refugees than any other country.