₦airaland Forum

joseph1013:
You've changed goal posts. You have changed to attacking department instead of individual attackers. Good! But that is still wrong!

In the Barca vs Chelsea game I gave out, the Attacking Department did not play BADLY. What about that?

forgiveness:
OK! Then, let me it clear that Aluko wasn't used as an attacker in the match against Manchester city. He was used as playmaker.

Attacking players (Wingers $ strikers) can either play badly or even play very well in any defensive formation depending on the team setup.

joseph1013:
I hope you know I am a Barca fan and I have followed them religiously for a long time.

Bros, there were matches that Tata set the team up to play defensively especially against top teams in the Champions' League. They did not play well, but they did not play BADLY. Or can you give me matches where they played badly and I will give you plenty matches they did okay in a defensive formation.

TheGoodJoe:
[b]First, you look at the philosophy of the set up.

If the team is set to defend, the attackers will not perform as good as the defensive department.

If you set the team to attack the defence can not perform as good as the attack department.

That does not mean a good performance can not come out from players in negative set up to their strength. It happened many times.

Let us use Mikel at Chelsea. Many criticise him that he is not the player he wants was. He was up there with Messi, Silva and Fabregas.

He is played negatively from his strength as a creative midfielder. So he can not perform up to the way he did earlier. That does not mean he can not have good games. Look at Bayern and Barca games when Chelsea won the Champions league.

If Chelsea, plays Mikel to his strength, in a creative attack role, for five games, you will see that genius we saw when he was young.

Same things go to the way Clubs set up to play. That is why Mata was frustrated under Mourinho or why Hazard criticised Mourinho's style of play. The set up affects performances.[/b]

TheGoodJoe:
They can do okay but they will never or can never perform the way they are performing under Enrique. The set up of the team affects performances of players.

joseph1013:
He was used as an attacker in a 3-5-2 formation. He paired Akpom upfront. See the image below.

Again, we are done with the Aluko debate.

joseph1013:
Must they play BADLY?

TheGoodJoe:
They must not but most times, the set up will not favor them. Bring Messi, Park bus with all nine players and put Messi up top.

He will not win World best. Messi's best comes from working with players set up offensively.

TheGoodJoe:
Ala Park Bus. But Aluko's role is more like a creative role like Iheanacho's role in the Crystal Palace game. He has a job of dropping behind Akpom and play as a playmaker.

That is why it is Park bus.

Back to the debate. When Steve Bruce set them up this way, most of the players are behind the ball and when City are to win the ball back, it is mostly from the attacking players.

If City dominates, it is from the attack they will win the ball. This is not from the game but from the philosophy of the set up.

So blasting Aluko and Akpom by the Hull Fans was wrong. It was a defensive set up.

joseph1013:
I have to say that I have not seen anyone who changes goal posts like you.

So from attackers, you have moved to collective attackers. Now you have jumped to attacking department vs defensive department. Na wa o.

You said attackers MUST play BADLY. Did Chelsea's attack play BADLY? NO! Lampard played well, Drogba played well, Ramires played well, Kalou played okay, Torres played very well. Only Mata was below par. Check this link for the match ratings: http://www.goal.com/en-ng/match/barcelona-vs-chelsea/1274371/ratings?ICID=MP_MS_6

So tell me, have you avandoved the "They MUST play BADLY" mantra?

joseph1013:
A match you didnt watch. Spare me!

joseph1013:
THEY MUST NOT! Good! Very good! Next time, avoid generalizations!

TheGoodJoe:
That is why I said you are not understanding me. A team set up to defend, is set up for the defense to shine. There is no way in Barca's formation Pique can be the best player of the season. The team is set up to attack. The attackers take the glory.

In that attacking Set Up, you need extraordinary defenders like Masherano and Pique. Sometimes you see Pique performing poorly and people criticising him. It is the set up and pressure.

In a defensive set up, like Mourinho's early days at Chelsea and Inter, we had Super men, like Drogba and Ibrahimovic, where you lob the ball to them and they do wonders.

That does not mean if they play badly in those games, you blast them. The philosophy put them in a very tough situation. Performing well is difficult.

joseph1013:
So who were Chelsea's best players in the first Mourinho era? Did your mind go to Drogba? Did it go to Lampard? Are they defenders? Didn't they shine via scoring goals?

TheGoodJoe:
Ala Park Bus. But [b]Aluko's role is more like a creative role like Iheanacho's role in the Crystal Palace game. He has a job of dropping behind Akpom and play as a playmaker.

That is why it is Park bus.

Back to the debate. When Steve Bruce set them up this way, most of the players are behind the ball and when City are to win the ball back, it is mostly from the attacking players.

If City dominates, it is from the attack they will win the ball. This is not from the game but from the philosophy of the set up.

So blasting Aluko and Akpom by the Hull Fans was wrong. It was a defensive set up.[/b]

TheGoodJoe:
Please read what I said I am tired of repeating my self. Did you see me write about Drogba and Ibrahimovic, were they defenders?

joseph1013:
You should read what you write and learn what inference means.

You said Pique could not be the best player in an attacking lineup. So why were Drogba and Lampard the best players in a defensive setup?

forgiveness:
@embolded was exactly what Aluko played on that day, he played behind the main Striker.

forgiveness:
@embolded was exactly what Aluko played on that day, he played behind the main Striker.

TheGoodJoe:
Because if you dispossess Lampard a hundred times and Drogba a hundred times, and they score one goal, they take the glory. You suppose to know this.

Answer in a defensive set up, which side of the team does the set up favors. Answer the question and get my point.

forgiveness:
It started the word 'underused'.

joseph1013:
I have not said a defensive formation does not favour the defence. It all depends on the opponent. It could favour the defence, it could favour the attack.

My point all along is to refute that erroneous assertion that Attackers MUST play BADLY in a defensive formation. Where the heck did you get that from?

TheGoodJoe:
Because if you dispossess Lampard a hundred times and Drogba a hundred times, and they score one goal, they take the glory. You suppose to know this.

Answer in a defensive set up, which side of the team does the set up favors. Answer the question and get my point.

joseph1013:
I have not said a defensive formation does not favour the defence. It all depends on alot of factors, the opponent inclusive. It could favour the defence, it could favour the attack.

My point all along is to refute that erroneous assertion that Attackers MUST play BADLY in a defensive formation. Where the heck did you get that from?

joseph1013:
Are you saying a defender cannot be the Star man in a defensive setup?

TheGoodJoe:
Then those ignorant Hull fans will abuse him and Aluko instead of looking at the set up.

forgiveness:
This is what Hull City had to say about Aluko match rating.

Sone Aluko: On a ground when he once impressed in the Premier League, the underused forward caused problems for the home team. A shot straight at Caballero almost brought the visitors an equaliser on the break. 6

Read more: http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Hull-City-player-ratings-rose-task-Manchester/story-28278586-detail/story.

forgiveness:
No mind them, but some of them knew that the team setup was too defensive and the defenders flopped.

However, they expected much from Aluko.

joseph1013:
This was what goal.com said about Aluko in the game:

Offered some good energy on the counter attack but was largely kept quiet by Otamendi.

Dude was quiet!

TheGoodJoe:
My point all along was as Long as the Coach set the team up to defend, blasting Aluko and Akpom for poor performances is ridiculous.

Is there any erroneous point you want to correct?