₦airaland Forum

patches689:
Engines are a problem though.

With 25 planes for a ~30 year life-span you are looking at 75 new engines and 200 engine rebuilds.

Engine rebuilds should not be a problem as with that many it is economical to train your guys to do it... and a rebuild should be realativly inexpensive since you simply take it apart and rebuild it.

But with regards to the engines... India just purchased 20 for $25 million. So assuming its around $1,2 mil per engine you are looking at $90 million over the next 30 years.

I would go for a smaller number of 12 as a "tip of the spear" and focus on getting a large number of secondary jets for the back-bone of the airforce. I think SAAF should have done the same - 12 Grip and 26 Hawks.

Only one engine problem for the RD-93 since 2007, I'll take my chances. Besides the Pakistanis (A very experienced and modern Air Force) say they are comfortable with the delivery service of the RD-93, so i'm comfortable with it.


90 million over the next 30 years is significantly doable.


"12 planes?"...... Where is the deterrence supposed to come from with such a small fleet?

-25 Jf-17 Planes

- 11 F-7s

- 14 MB-339CD

- 24 Super Tucanos/Mushak



This is a much more reasonable fleet for the NAF.

Henry240:
Only one engine problem for the RD-93 since 2007, I'll take my chances. Besides the Pakistanis (A very experienced and modern Air Force) say they are comfortable with the delivery service of the RD-93, so i'm comfortable with it.


90 million over the next 30 years is significantly doable.


"12 planes?"...... Where is the deterrence supposed to come from with such a small fleet?

-25 Jf-17 Planes

- 11 F-7s

- 14 MB-339CD

- 24 Super Tucanos/Mushak



This is a much more reasonable fleet for the NAF.

Who are you trying to deter?

12 will deter all your neighbors and their non-existent air forces

And the only way to deter the global powers is with subs, land-based ASMs, and a veery expensive GBADS.... for example: the Charles De Gaulle can carry around 30 Rafael M and bases through out the region... and even 46 JF-17 wont be able to deter that.

Henry240:
Retired........ After long years of service, i retired it. Henry120 got an upgrade, it's now 240!


I was having severe stress at work, so i decided to retire it, so i could concentrate.

Hahaha ok!!

some journalist just got arrested for misuse of a communication device that why i removed that photo i posted before.things are getting crazy

africaken:
some journalist just got arrested for misuse of a communication device that why i removed that photo i posted before.things are getting crazy

?? Don't guys have freedom of speech in Kenya?? Why would you be arrested for posting a photo

Russia Air force SU-34 in syria

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUSzjsUfsG0

agaugust:
You cannot know an armoured Toyota Landcruiser by looking at its photo. Many armoured cars owned by civilians drive around the streets of this world and look ordinary, until the owner tells you he bought it factory armoured on special order. Not all armoured cars and SUV look like an MRAP or APC.

This is how you South Africans start issues by posting your personal imaginary information about other African countries equipment to rubbish it directly or stylishly.

Now stop it dude. Stop posting what you have no iota of proof about.....and who told you no company was involved in the Eagle project, are you the Nigerian army chief of staff who knows what happens behind closed doors of Nigerian army?

Unfortunately such nice looking armoured vehicles are only armoured for small arms like pistol and not for machine guns.

patches689:
Who are you trying to deter?

12 will deter all your neighbors and their non-existent air forces

And the only way to deter the global powers is with subs, land-based ASMs, and a veery expensive GBADS.... for example: the Charles De Gaulle can carry around 30 Rafael M and bases through out the region... and even 46 JF-17 wont be able to deter that.

-Sudan

- Libya under Ghadaffi or any other nut-job who is going to finally take over government there

- Chad

- Cameroun

- Yes, even France. If Nigeria adds 3 AWACS, it becomes a totally different melody for the French.


In all, 25 planes seems really appropriate.

NNS Okpabana, Nigerian Navy

Nigerian Air Force, Eagle One

Henry240:
-Sudan

- Libya under Ghadaffi or any other nut-job who is going to finally take over government there

- Chad

- Cameroun

- Yes, even France. If Nigeria adds 3 AWACS, it becomes a totally different melody for the French.


In all, 25 planes seems really appropriate.

1. Sudan -
best jet Mig-29
Combat radius:700km.
Dist from tip of Sudan to Nigeria: 900km

2. Chad
Mig-29
Number: 3

3. Cameroun
No actual fighter aircraft

4. France:
- Charles de Gaulle: up to 40 Rafael
- Senegal, Djibouti, Chad, Gabon
- Operational fighters: 223

With 12 fighters and 26 light fighters can deter numbers 2,3, number 1 cant get at you, and with France there is simply no deterrence short of land based ASMs or Russian built GBADS

Henry240:
Inside Nigeria's ultra-mordern Defence HQ

wow!! how did you get those pics?? I remember searching for pictures of even d outside of DHQ and got only 1

Interesting read on the development of tanks in the old East v West argument

The pendulum shifted for a good while. It's not necessarily about saying "X entered service in 19XX so X had the better tanks then" because at entry into service there wouldn't have been very many of them.

On a strategic scale, one thing the Warsaw Pact managed to do very nicely was have very solid, perpetual "waves" of upgrades and new tanks manufactured very fast. Many of their moments of being "slightly ahead" stemmed from these surges.

NATO however, tended to be more fragmented owing to there being 4 separate major developers of armor. US, UK, (West) Germany and France. They managed to use a lot of "soft technology" to edge themselves ahead. Better ammo, better FCS and sights, better crew conditions and training. Whenever those things got nailed down the NATO side tended to be overall more effective.

For example. the Chieftain was an incredibly advanced and powerful defensive tank that gave the Soviets one hell of a pause for thought, but the Chief was only a portion of NATO's vehicles, so its existence can't be considered for a "full" strategic "who is better". It was part of it, like how the AMX-30's fancy HEAT shell, the M60A3's huge improvements from the original etc etc.

Very back and forth a lot, and even moreso in each "local area". However when the Abrams, Leopard 2 and Challengers got rolling, that was that. There was never any looking back and no question about who was superior at that point onwards.

Sorry for being slightly off topic... but since we as africans tend to think buying a whole lot of Eastern tanks is better than only a handfull of western ones I thought it would some good food for thought

Special forces vehicles


I've always wondered with these vehicles, what happens when it starts to rain/snow?

Henry240:
Special forces vehicles


I've always wondered with these vehicles, what happens when it starts to rain/snow?

They are used by tough and rough men who can withstand the elements.

They have some tent like cover though.

patches689:
1. A certain jet over Cape Town

2. Oh Tanzania, you fancy

3. Libya

4. French in Mali

If your pockets are REALLY fat you can be in the cockpit of that jet for a bit of "jet experience".

patches689:
Engines are a problem though.

With 25 planes for a ~30 year life-span you are looking at 75 new engines and 200 engine rebuilds.

Engine rebuilds should not be a problem as with that many it is economical to train your guys to do it... and a rebuild should be realativly inexpensive since you simply take it apart and rebuild it.

But with regards to the engines... India just purchased 20 for $25 million. So assuming its around $1,2 mil per engine you are looking at $90 million over the next 30 years.

I would go for a smaller number of 12 as a "tip of the spear" and focus on getting a large number of secondary jets for the back-bone of the airforce. I think SAAF should have done the same - 12 Grip and 26 Hawks.

Meaning SAAF would have 11 jets ready to deploy?

with maintenance, exercises, internal operations and training that number will be cut again. The air force will only be able to deploy 2 or 3 Gripens.

The 26 we have is small. The RD-93 is just a problem. Remember the Super Mirage with that engine?

jln115:
Agree 100%. But i don't think it will happen, the SADF/SANDF are notoriously secretive regarding the full capability of their weapon systems, and for good reason, there have been several attempts from foreign parties to steel blueprints to missile systems,Rooivalk ect ect.

Just an example, the EW suit of the Cheetah is still classified till this day, even after being retired for almost 10 years.

Lastly if you look at the Video, its only filmed from the Pilots cockpit(the rear cockpit) and not the weapons operators cockpit, the Pilots HMD is turned off and the camera is set up in such a way that its only possible to see the basic flight data on the display.

Regarding the Cheetah it's because of the Israeli components.

MikeCZAR:
They are used by tough and rough men who can withstand the elements.

They have some tent like cover though.

.... Until somebody falls sick in the raining season.

africaken:
if that footage was during the attacks on M23,just imagine how of a marketing ploy it would have being

No it isn't.

Denel marketing and managing people aren't putting hard work as does the engineers, scientists, technician etc

Two things wrong with the Rooivalk: there are too few, and it does not have Mokopa missile



http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/2016/01/21/developing-the-rooivalk-mk2-would-tick-many-vital-boxes

Henry240:
.... Until somebody falls sick in the raining season.

Sick?

falling solid sheets of water won't stop determined men.
Rapid response unit. FARDC

The development and manufacture of 12 aircraft cost about R6.2bn at 2014 exchange rates. Exports of systems developed for the Rooivalk — missiles, stabilised sight, self-protection, health and usage monitoring, and so on — had passed R15.4bn by 2014. A further R7.1bn worth of defence industrial participation work on the Gripen, Hawk, A-109 and A400M aircraft would have been impossible without the skills and technologies established for the Rooivalk project.

Holy sh1t who ever would have thought that the Rooivalk was such a cash cow!

The latter is best illustrated by its 5,545m "out-of-ground effect" hover ceiling (the height at which it can hover without the cushion of air caused by rotor downwash). The next best is the US Apache (3,866m), followed by the Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52 (3,600m); the Franco-German Tiger (3,200m) and the Chinese WZ-10 (2,000m). The Rooivalk also has the highest cruise speed, the best rate of climb and the best range/weapons load performance, and shares with the Tiger the best power to weight ratio, all factors critical in operations and combat. And it is probably better protected than any of those.

omg

Article made my day

Henry240:
JF-17 thunder flying with an IFR probe.



I'm really satisfied with the purchase of this plane by the NAF. It satisfies all NAF requirements and more, the block II is coming with a conformal fuel tank, so it's long range is now further extended.


25 Planes, 6 Trainer versions and 19 single seat versions would be simply perfect.


Best part is..... Countries like Nigeria can now fly good fighter planes that are not sanction prone.

Six trainer versions?

I think this jet is Turkey really. I haven't seen a serious discussion among the Nigeria camp (professionally and Enthusiasts) on wether this is the best offer.

The Chinese J-10 multi-role jet I believe if Nigeria is looking for a single engine fighter would be better. Anyway it isn't an open tender where would know what other countries offer.

MikeCZAR:
No it isn't.

Denel marketing and managing people aren't putting hard work as does the engineers, scientists, technician etc

Two things wrong with the Rooivalk: there are too few, and it does not have Mokopa missile



http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/2016/01/21/developing-the-rooivalk-mk2-would-tick-many-vital-boxes

I would place a significant amount of money on Brazil being involved in the project.

They only got 12 Hinds from the Russians and I doubt that matches their military aspirations...

patches689:
The latter is best illustrated by its 5,545m "out-of-ground effect" hover ceiling (the height at which it can hover without the cushion of air caused by rotor downwash). The next best is the US Apache (3,866m), followed by the Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52 (3,600m); the Franco-German Tiger (3,200m) and the Chinese WZ-10 (2,000m). The Rooivalk also has the highest cruise speed, the best rate of climb and the best range/weapons load performance, and shares with the Tiger the best power to weight ratio, all factors critical in operations and combat. And it is probably better protected than any of those.

omg

Article made my day

We already knew this.

But what is exciting is the mention of the one damaged by power lines years ago getting repaired.

MikeCZAR:
We already knew this.

But what is exciting is the mention of the one damaged by power lines years ago getting repaired.

Yeah I saw that.

But I assumed "repaired" was a similar euphemism for the C130's being "overhauled"... ie: "pending further funding"

patches689:
I would place a significant amount of money on Brazil being involved in the project.

They only got 12 Hinds from the Russians and I doubt that matches their military aspirations...

I believe similar to the Algerians they went for the Hind as they couldn't find a dedicated attack helicopter suited to their needs.

And will acquire one later.

We shouldn't have discussed about that turkey now this thread will be filled with people from that "country", supporting it.

patches689:
Yeah I saw that.

But I assumed "repaired" was a similar euphemism for the C130's being "overhauled"... ie: "pending further funding"

The C-130s is a different story.