₦airaland Forum

HaneefahRN:
I've been around.
That depends on what you see as being deviant. The Society's norms changes from time to time. There was a time it would be unheard of of a woman to work or do anything outside the usual family rearing and nurturing. Now, the Society to an extent encourages women to follow their dreams, build careers, live their lives. Not like there ain't still some hypocritical sentiments, like a woman who shares in paying the bill and at the same time take care of the home is such a good woman, supportive, not a liability, etc. But a man that helps out his wife with domestic chores is already deviating from the norm , what the heck he is a man!
Several speculations would start coming up about his manliness, she probably bewitched him, he is a woman wrapper and all sorts of balderdash.
A man cheats serially without shame or any care for the feelings of the wife, what the Society would say is for the woman to endure and still pamper him or look for a way to blame the woman.
Fornication is gradually becoming a norm, if it isn't already. People, men especially can get to shamelessly boast about the number of women they had slept with and be hailed.

The woman is expected to be the epitome of the perfect home maker, nurturer and of course should not be a liability to the man so she has to combine working with home making. The man should be there to provide his quota to the family finances and of course be the authoritarian in the home. Whether his decisions affects the wife negatively is no ones concern, he is the man.
Being an authoritarian in the marriage is the Society's norm. The woman takes care of the home as well as her career, God help her she takes in a mature or even pre-puberty lady as maid, if she is married to a man with no self control, stories that touch the heart will come up and of course the Society will still blame the woman.
Some men will shout, I don't want a liability as a wife, ask them if they can help their wives out with house chores, that would be another scenario. It isn't demeaning for the woman to help out with his own conventional role but it is demeaning for him to help her out with hers.

Let me give you a case scenario, there is a couple with both husband and wife working, the man doesn't even know how the wife and children feeds, all he contributes to is the school fees which he of course still shares payment with the wife. He cheats openly on her. Even while heavily pregnant she was expected to take care of his numerous friends, relatives and what not. He can bring home any stranger or relative as he wishes without her consent, who will stay for as long as he or she wants and she must of course cook for too. She managed to buy herself a washing machine, but he prefers the handwashing method and said she must not use it, etc.This is a lot of women's reality. If she decides to leave such marriage, she would be the one seen as the deviant for not putting up with BS in the name of being submissive. Some people's definition of submissiveness is slavery.

I'm suppressing the mounting impulse to flirt with you.... as usual.

Because you raised a valid point and thought-provoking poser.

Conventions change truely, that's what I've been trying to pass across. You know it and affirmed it. Now you won't blame me if I find you more irresistible than I did a mouth ago.

The concept of submission in the marital context has been subjected to varying interpretation and loose definition especially by young adults like myself who are still largely inexperienced in this part of life.

It has been exploited and women have had to bear the brunt of the subjective definition of the word.

But society is gradually morphing to liberalisation without the threats of modern feminism.

But there are a few evil men out there whom no good woman can satisfy. Those are cases of inherently dark wickedness that usually defies human supplication.

But in most instances, women have always controlled men. The truth is that , as society changes into accepting women into the train of professionalism, career and entrepreneurship, they boarded this train and left a precious baggage behind;

It's the baggage of their ability to control their men.

They should go back and pick it up, the journey isn't far travelled yet.

you nailed it dear!!!

Sensible post

HaneefahRN:
I've been around.
That depends on what you see as being deviant. The Society's norms changes from time to time. There was a time it would be unheard of of a woman to work or do anything outside the usual family rearing and nurturing. Now, the Society to an extent encourages women to follow their dreams, build careers, live their lives. Not like there ain't still some hypocritical sentiments, like a woman who shares in paying the bill and at the same time take care of the home is such a good woman, supportive, not a liability, etc. But a man that helps out his wife with domestic chores is already deviating from the norm , what the heck he is a man!
Several speculations would start coming up about his manliness, she probably bewitched him, he is a woman wrapper and all sorts of balderdash.
A man cheats serially without shame or any care for the feelings of the wife, what the Society would say is for the woman to endure and still pamper him or look for a way to blame the woman.
Fornication is gradually becoming a norm, if it isn't already. People, men especially can get to shamelessly boast about the number of women they had slept with and be hailed.

The woman is expected to be the epitome of the perfect home maker, nurturer and of course should not be a liability to the man so she has to combine working with home making. The man should be there to provide his quota to the family finances and of course be the authoritarian in the home. Whether his decisions affects the wife negatively is no ones concern, he is the man.
Being an authoritarian in the marriage is the Society's norm. The woman takes care of the home as well as her career, God help her she takes in a mature or even pre-puberty lady as maid, if she is married to a man with no self control, stories that touch the heart will come up and of course the Society will still blame the woman.
Some men will shout, I don't want a liability as a wife, ask them if they can help their wives out with house chores, that would be another scenario. It isn't demeaning for the woman to help out with his own conventional role but it is demeaning for him to help her out with hers.

Let me give you a case scenario, there is a couple with both husband and wife working, the man doesn't even know how the wife and children feeds, all he contributes to is the school fees which he of course still shares payment with the wife. He cheats openly on her. Even while heavily pregnant she was expected to take care of his numerous friends, relatives and what not. He can bring home any stranger or relative as he wishes without her consent, who will stay for as long as he or she wants and she must of course cook for too. She managed to buy herself a washing machine, but he prefers the handwashing method and said she must not use it, etc.This is a lot of women's reality. If she decides to leave such marriage, she would be the one seen as the deviant for not putting up with BS in the name of being submissive. Some people's definition of submissiveness is slavery.

Awee report you to the council

Lezzlie:
I'm suppressing the mounting impulse to flirt with you.... as usual.

Because you raised a valid point and thought-provoking poser.

Conventions change truely, that's what I've been trying to pass across. You know it and affirmed it. Now you won't blame me if I find you more irresistible than I did a month ago.

The concept of submission in the marital context has been subjected to varying interpretation and loose definition especially by young adults like myself who are still largely inexperienced in this part of life.

It has been exploited and women have had to bear the brunt of the subjective definition of the word.

But society is gradually morphing to liberalisation without the threats of modern feminism.

But there are a few evil men out there whom no good woman can satisfy. Those are cases of inherently dark wickedness that usually defies human supplication.

But in most instances, women have always controlled men. The truth is that , as society changes into accepting women into the train of professionalism, career and entrepreneurship, they boarded this train and left a precious baggage behind;

It's the baggage of their ability to control their men.

They should go back and pick it up, the journey isn't far travelled yet.

mimzy:
Awee report you to the council

My Goddess, the council doesn't decide which way the pendulum of my heart swings!


You do!

mimzy:
you nailed it dear!!!
Sensible post

Thanks sis.

Lezzlie:
Humans have always and will always change values and ethics. It's part of humanity.

Agreed! Its in our very nature.

If societal values bring the failure of marriages, the institution wouldn't have survived this long. The vows you took at the alter, the advice and imploration you get from your in-laws when you go for traditional marriage are all societal conventions and expectations.

This account for the high divorce rate in the country. Marriage as an institution is failing, or haven't you heard people saying marriage is a trap?

Couples simply deviate from the codes of their vows during marriage. Did society ask you to punch your wife or ask your wife disregard you?

I don't think so, I believe their marital vows which is a product of societal convention and norm is what is causing the whole problem.

Wife battering is as a result of failed marriage, have you ever seen any successful marriage where the husband is a wife beater. This are all products of the strain and stress society's laws place of marriages.

Yes you conform to what society wants of you.

I believe you have a set code of conduct in your place of work, where you live and how you interact with individuals. That's society for you, nope?

No! I beg to differ, that's not society
for you, that's me for you. I define myself not according to what society wants, but according to what I want. Its my happiness that's at stake, not society.

Sentimental escapism to the gallery of gender approval !!!

This is you dilly dallying..

Bearing babies isn't conventional, lolz. It is a biological reality. It is an inherent mark of evolution nothing can change!!!!

True that! So what makes a woman the house chef conventional? Society right? It doesn't matter if that society that passed this conventional law was full of illiterates which jujuvitis infected teeth.

And it's conventional for women to make meals and pay attention to the home font. Men aren't exempted.

But women are more suited. If you call cooking slavery, what do you call breadwinning? As more men are the breadwinners for their families, although women are beginning to step up to the plate but it still a male prevalent occurrence. Balance here is the watchword!

Who or what made women suited for this conventional behavior, and men breadwinners, society right? See my answer to this above.

But I still believe in balance.

So if there's a stalemate, say, the kids are due for school and both parents can't decide what school they need to enrole the kids into? What then happens.

If the husband doesn't have a final say, Joseph, you're advocating disorderliness and chaos.

Every man should consult and seek his wife support in decision making. But saying the husband doesn't get to decide is.....laughable, even to feminists.


n.b bukatyne, please disregard the mention, I honestly think is NL software glitch. Thanks.

Nope! Nothing of such, they still need to sit down and deliberate till the arrive at a logical conclusion.

No! I'm not advocating disorderliness, I'm advocating orderliness based on sound logic and constructive reasoning.

The husband gets to decide when he and his spouse have reached a logical conclusion, then the husband can carry out the action.

bukatyne:
Thanks a lot

I am a mistress in the art of cooking

Ah! Then you're a mistress in my heart. For the art of filling my stomach with the essence of a very knowing and pleasing meal, prepared by a mistress such as thee can be said to be bliss...

bukatyne:
So the fact that the 'modern' woman has to be stretched beyond her limits makes her golden?

donbenedict:
stretched beyond limits? So being golden means stretched beyond limits? For the fact that she does all that signifies she is woman...


I even don't see why this should pose as an argument. I think you are missing the point here. Look, if u think doing all that is being stretched beyond limits den u should opt for a sex change and try being a man..

Women are are gift to mankind, and there is absolutely nothing dat can take their place.


It seems u ain't proud being a woman..

Stop running around in circles. If you are saying that women are golden cos of all OP's points, it then means GOLD is something women should run from. It is no longer cherished.

Why should women cherish being stretched beyond their limit? That is the question you should answer. This has nothing to do with being proud of one's gender.

Lezzlie:
I'm suppressing the mounting impulse to flirt with you.... as usual.

Because you raised a valid point and thought-provoking poser.

Conventions change truely, that's what I've been trying to pass across. You know it and affirmed it. Now you won't blame me if I find you more irresistible than I did a mouth ago.

The concept of submission in the marital context has been subjected to varying interpretation and loose definition especially by young adults like myself who are still largely inexperienced in this part of life.

It has been exploited and women have had to bear the brunt of the subjective definition of the word.

But society is gradually morphing to liberalisation without the threats of modern feminism.

But there are a few evil men out there whom no good woman can satisfy. Those are cases of inherently dark wickedness that usually defies human supplication.

But in most instances, women have always controlled men. The truth is that , as society changes into accepting women into the train of professionalism, career and entrepreneurship, they boarded this train and left a precious baggage behind;

It's the baggage of their ability to control their men.

They should go back and pick it up, the journey isn't far travelled yet.

Lolz, thank God you are suppressing it.

I agree with you a little but...
You have still found a way to blame women. A woman should have the right to make her life decisions, whether to be working or a house wife. It's her choice.

The success of marriage has nothing to do with qhether the woman is working or not. It has everything to do with those two involved, how compatible their personalities and values are, the mutual love, understanding and respect and especially the way they view marriage.
Marriage should be a partnership in which both partners have differing roles. Once you take the authoritarian route, problem sets in. We only talk about how our grandmas and great grandmas live in a good light. A lot of them suffered in the hands of their husbands, but they were expected to take it all silently and endure as norm, and since some were barred from working, where else does she run to, the man is free to treat her as he wills.

I don't really get the concept of going back to pick the luggage of controlling the husband though. What I know is even if an egocentric irresponsible man has the most agreeable house wife, he would always find a reason to maltreat and degrade her

HaneefahRN:
Lolz, thank God you are suppressing it.

I agree with you a little but...
You have still found a way to blame women. A woman should have the right to make her life decisions, whether to be working or a house wife. It's her choice.

To a large extent true, but in reality it isn't so straightforward! Marriage is a compromise, both to the husband and to the wife!

[quote author=HaneefahRN post=44812564]The success of marriage has nothing to do with qhether the woman is working or not. It has everything to do with those two involved, how compatible their personalities and values are, the mutual love, understanding and respect and especially the way they view marriage.
Marriage should be a partnership in which both partners have differing roles. Once you take the authoritarian route, problem sets in. We only talk about how our grandmas and great grandmas live in a good light. A lot of them suffered in the hands of their husbands, but they were expected to take it all silently and endure as norm, and since some were barred from working, where else does she run to, the man is free to treat her as he wills.

Again true, both jobs and life style affect marriage, no matter the compatibility. It's grandmothers had protection, stability, security, and fulfilment more than today's women, today's women have more liberty, education and doubts more than our grandmothers. The balance is still in oblivion.

However, authoritarianism in marriage is an extreem form of male leadership I frown at.

HaneefahRN:
I don't really get the concept of going back to pick the luggage of controlling the husband though. What I know is even if an egocentric irresponsible man has the most agreeable house wife, he would always find a reason to maltreat and degrade her

I agree you in this in my last post.

Tell me who are you voting for in miss NL?

donbenedict:
so all the mother's day celebration set aside for womanhood no dey make u happy? Eh? Nor make me vex o

you seem empty headed.

[quote author=joseph1832 post=44811601



]Agreed! Its in our very nature.

This account for the high divorce rate in the country. Marriage as an institution is failing, or haven't you heard people saying marriage is a trap?[/quote]Marriage still stands. Yes divorce is high but even in the West, marriage is still sought after!

joseph1832:
I don't think so, I believe their marital vows which is a product of societal convention and norm is what is causing the whole problem.

You're Contradicting, how can marital vows be the causative agent to marital failure?

joseph1832:
Wife battering is as a result of failed marriage, have you ever seen any successful marriage where the husband is a wife beater. This are all products of the strain and stress society's laws place of marriages.

I don't get the point and honestly don't follow.

I've seen cases where men walked away from marriages without even laying a finger on their wives.

joseph1832:
No! I beg to differ, that's not society
for you, that's me for you. I define myself not according to what society wants, but according to what I want. Its my happiness that's at stake, not society.

Are you telling me you set your own rules in your place of work? Are you telling me you define your own terms of condition where you live? You're subject to comfort to societal rules of conduct. I think you mistake personal conduct and interaction to societal norms.

joseph1832:
True that! So what makes a woman the house chef conventional? Society right? It doesn't matter if that society that passed this conventional law was full of illiterates which jujuvitis infected teeth.

I won't take the bait of derailment. Whether the society is illiterate or otherwise has no bearing here.

What I stand for this. It is conventional for women to be the primary source of cooked meals in the family. It has been the convention for millions of ages.

Whether it's wrong or right is another debate entirely

joseph1832:
Who or what made women suited for this conventional behavior, and men breadwinners, society right? See my answer to this above.

But I still believe in balance.

Repetition

joseph1832:
Nope! Nothing of such, they still need to sit down and deliberate till the arrive at a logical conclusion.

No words needed here. Just this : Bwahahahahaha!!!

joseph1832:
No! I'm not advocating disorderliness, I'm advocating orderliness based on sound logic and constructive reasoning.

The husband gets to decide when he and his spouse have reached a logical conclusion, then the husband can carry out the action.

Reaching a logical conclusion? And school date of enrolment waits for them.

Or the argument of buying a piece of land waits for them while other prospective buyers are told to hold on until Mr and Mrs arrive at a logical conclusion.

Looooooooolz!!! The wife must times just has to trust on the good judgement of the husband in most instances.

Damn!!!!

Lezzlie:
Marriage still stands. Yes divorce is high but even in the West, marriage is still sought after!

No doubt marriage is still sought after, but never forget, so is divorce.

You're Contradicting, how can marital vows be the causative agent to marital failure?

The conventional marital vow of not cheating is what is causing heartbreaks and headaches, imagine making a marital vow of cheating, as long as one use a condom, you think women will be complaining over the net about cheating?.

I don't get the point and honestly don't follow.

I've seen cases where men walked away from marriages without even laying a finger on their wives.

That's what I'm saying, a marriage doesn't need to be dubbed failed until the man starts beating the women.

A marriage becomes a failure the moment both party can't reach a sound agreement.

Are you telling me you set your own rules in your place of work? Are you telling me you define your own terms of condition where you live? You're subject to comfort to societal rules of conduct. I think you mistake personal conduct and interaction to societal norms.

Bro, I'm telling you I'm my own man. I decide what I do or what I don't do. I teach privately. I can decide not to teach for 2 weeks and still I'll paid, why its cos I've proved that I'm god damn good at what I do.

Its the very reason I stopped teaching in schools because I was so fucking tired of the conventional bullsh1t being thrown at my face.

I won't take the bait of derailment. Whether the society is illiterate or otherwise has no bearingbearing here.

I believe it does! I see no reason why an intellect like you lezz, will choose to allow laws made by illiterates rule over him.

What I stand for this. It is conventional for women to be the primary source of cooked meals in the family. It has been the convention for millions of ages.

That's the more reason why people now deviate from the standard norm and conventional way of doing thing. I believe you know there are men who cook better than some women?

The way you harp about this cooking of a thing bruv I'm starting to believe you can't cook. Lmao. Hey mimzy, tell leZz to acquire some culinary skills will you. Lmfao.

Whether it's wrong or right is another debatedebate entirely

Okay. But I'll pass.

Repetition

Its allowed, it makes the point being made stick very well in the brain.

No words needed here. Just this : Bwahahahahaha!!!

You sound like an authoritarian man come despot.

Reaching a logical conclusion? And school date of enrolment waits for them.

Or the argument of buying a piece of land waits for them while other prospective buyers are told to hold on until Mr and Mrs arrive at a logical conclusion.

Looooooooolz!!! The wife must times just has to trust on the good judgement of the husband in most instances.

Damn!!!!

Yes why not if not, agreeing to things shouldn't take forever. A home is not a house of assembly where many minds gather that want different things. A home is a home where a man and woman talk and agree because they want the same thing.

At your last point, seriously bruv, I'm starting to see you as an authoritarian. One who believes a woman should lick his butt just because he had the privilege to be born with a dick.

I don't care what MEN want from women.

I knew what I wanted from A MAN and that was enough for me to find THE MAN who pleases ME and who I have no issues to please in return.

[quote author=Lezzlie post=44813734][/quote]I'm yet to decide o. May the best lady win!

HaneefahRN:
I'm yet to decide o. May the best lady win!

Come vote for me nah!

My lady!

joseph1832:
No doubt marriage is still sought after, but never forget, so is divorce.

The conventional marital vow of not cheating is what is causing heartbreaks and headaches, imagine making a marital vow of cheating, as long as one use a condom, you think women will be complaining over the net about cheating?.

That's what I'm saying, a marriage doesn't need to be dubbed failed until the man starts beating the women.

A marriage becomes a failure the moment both party can't reach a sound agreement.


Bro, I'm telling you I'm my own man. I decide what I do or what I don't do. I teach privately. I can decide not to teach for 2 weeks and still I'll paid, why its cos I've proved that I'm god damn good at what I do.

Its the very reason I stopped teaching in schools because I was so fucking tired of the conventional bullsh1t being thrown at my face.

I believe it does! I see no reason why an intellect like you lezz, will choose to allow laws made by illiterates rule over him.

That's the more reason why people now deviate from the standard norm and conventional way of doing thing. I believe you know there are men who cook better than some women?

The way you harp about this cooking of a thing bruv I'm starting to believe you can't cook. Lmao. Hey mim.zy, tell le.Zz to acquire some culinary skills will you. Lmfao.

Okay. But I'll pass.

Its allowed, it makes the point being made stick very well in the brain.

You sound like an authoritarian man come despot.

Yes why not if not, agreeing to things shouldn't take forever. A home is not a house of assembly where many minds gather that want different things. A home is a home where a man and woman talk and agree because they want the same thing.

At your last point, seriously bruv, I'm starting to see you as an authoritarian. One who believes a woman should lick his butt just because he had the privilege to be born with a dick.

I still maintain conventions are what determine marital conducts to a large extent.

Whether this is good or bad I won't explore in debate here.

And I do cook. When I schooled I cooked and most and ate out seldomly.

As a working class, I cook at home seldomly except on Sundays. I have my breakfast and lunch out!

And being born with a dïck is a thankless job. It come with endless responsibilities.....

That's why I laugh at you and your discussing to logical conclusions,. Nothing wrong in that, but till a "compromise is reached" sounds so wuzzy-like.


Women will always think through more with emotions, and you..... Lolz I won't say it.

Lezzlie:
Again true, both jobs and life style affect marriage, no matter the compatibility. It's grandmothers had protection, stability, security, and fulfilment more than today's women, today's women have more liberty, education and doubts more than our grandmothers. The balance is still in oblivion.

However, authoritarianism in marriage is an extreem form of male leadership I frown at.

How do you know our grandmothers were ALL more fulfilled than women today?

Mindfulness:
How do you know our grandmothers were ALL more fulfilled than women today?

I had both of 'em until recently.

Matter of fact, my maternal grandmother still lives, paternal I lost this year. She lived to 106.

I know firsthand how they carried on!

Lezzlie:
I had both of 'em until recently.

Matter of fact, my maternal grandmother still lives, paternal I lost this year. She lived to 106.

I know firsthand how they carried on!

And your grannies are representative of all the women of their generation?

And you can comfortably say that your grannies were more fulfilled than I or all women of my generation?

Mindfulness:
And your grannies are representative of all the women of their generation?

And you can comfortably say that your grannies were more fulfilled than I or all women of my generation?

Aye, my grannies were the gateway through which I drew the hypothesis, they along with their toothless friends who had a kind of fulfilment and spark about them that's only a shadow in most modern women.

And I read the books, and came back to observe my grannies and their toothless groups and I wondered how wisdom was different from intelligence.

And that's about the modern woman , all intelligence, no wisdom.

Lezzlie:
Aye, my grannies were the gateway I drew the hypothesis, they along with their toothless friends who had a kind of fulfilment and spark about them that's only a shadow in most modern women.

And I read the books, and came back to observe my grannies and their toothless groups and I wondered how wisdom was different from intelligence.

Which books?

And that's about the modern woman , all intelligence, no wisdom.

You are entitled to your opinion and the good news is that there are plenty women out there who want to have traditional family structures so you have a choice here.

Leave those who want to live their lives in a different way alone. It is none of your business.

Saying that all women back in the day were more fulfilled than all women today is not true. Each generation brings about happy and unhappy people.

Mindfulness:
Which books?

What books? What kind of question is this?
I'm not about to reveal the hidden secrets of my craft to you

Mindfulness:
You are entitled to your opinion and the good news is that there are plenty women out there who want to have traditional family structures so you have a choice here.

Leave those who want to live their lives in a different way alone. It is none of your business.

And I wasn't aware I was standing in the way.

Mindfulness:
Saying that all women back in the day were more fulfilled than all women today is not true. Each generation brings about happy and unhappy people.

The vast majority of past generation women had it better. Stop hanging to "all", you know it's not strong to support the weight of your excuses.

Lezzlie:
What books? What kind of question is this?
I'm not about to reveal the hidden secrets of my craft to you

I thought so.

And I wasn't aware I was standing in the way.

No, you are not. You are just poking your nose in other people's business.

The vast majority of past generation women had it better. Stop hanging to "all", you know it's not strong to support the weight of your excuses.

According to the study conducted by your babalawo, I guess.

Mindfulness:
I thought so.



No, you are not. You are just poking your nose in other people's business.



According to the study conducted by your babalawo, I guess.

Lolz, I don't poke noses, I leave a foot!

And it isn't babalawo, I've gone up the ladder; try voodoo

Lezzlie:
Lolz, I don't poke noses, I leave a foot!

And it isn't babalawo, I've gone up the ladder; try voodoo

LOL

Mindfulness:
LOL

How's my friend? You ever saw her around?

donbenedict:
Madam dats why you are a woman.. stop complaining.. womanhood is golden.

Hehe... CLOWN.

Womanhood is Golden...and that makes you what... WALLPAPER??

Lezzlie:
I still maintain conventions are what determine marital conducts to a large extent.

Whether this is good or bad I won't explore in debate here.

And I do cook. When I schooled I cooked and most and ate out seldomly.

As a working class, I cook at home seldomly except on Sundays. I have my breakfast and lunch out!

And being born with a dïck is a thankless job. It come with endless responsibilities.....

That's why I laugh at you and your discussing to logical conclusions,. Nothing wrong in that, but till a "compromise is reached" sounds so wuzzy-like.


Women will always think through more with emotions, and you..... Lolz I won't say it.

Okay lezz, you win. Do have a dickful night ahead. Lol.

Lezzlie:
How's my friend? You ever saw her around?

I am lost here, which friend?

Mindfulness:
How do you know our grandmothers were ALL more fulfilled than women today?

Because they never came to social media and rant about being made second to a man.

joseph1832:
Because they never came to social media and rant about being made second to a man.

Your grannies were using the internet and social media?