₦airaland Forum

analice107:
Is it that you deny these things or they don't happen where you come from?
when i was a kid, there were these Jaz men who come to entertain us with magic, afterwards sell their wares. A man will use this knife Mae Suya uses to slice through their stomach, stick it into their eyes, nothing happens. A man will lie down and a plank will be place on him, a car will drive through him, nothing will happen to him, i have seen a man who lifted a car with his teeth off the ground. he stood erect with the car by his teeth.
An Hausa man came to my village, he never went into the River, How he did it, no one knows till this day, but he tied a robe to a stick by the bank of the river and spiritually tied an Hippopotamus and pulled it to the river bank and it was killed. He never stepped inside the water.
I have seen where a man took an empty giant Milo Can , opened it for us to see it was empty, closed it, shook it and open it again, steaming hot Jellof rice filled the Can, he scoped it out and people ate it to prove it was indeed rice.
Its either you are lying or you are living in denial.

analice107:
Is it that you deny these things or they don't happen where you come from?
when i was a kid, there were these Jaz men who come to entertain us with magic, afterwards sell their wares. A man will use this knife Mae Suya uses to slice through their stomach, stick it into their eyes, nothing happens. A man will lie down and a plank will be place on him, a car will drive through him, nothing will happen to him, i have seen a man who lifted a car with his teeth off the ground. he stood erect with the car by his teeth.
An Hausa man came to my village, he never went into the River, How he did it, no one knows till this day, but he tied a robe to a stick by the bank of the river and spiritually tied an Hippopotamus and pulled it to the river bank and it was killed. He never stepped inside the water.
I have seen where a man took an empty giant Milo Can , opened it for us to see it was empty, closed it, shook it and open it again, steaming hot Jellof rice filled the Can, he scoped it out and people ate it to prove it was indeed rice.Its either you are lying or you are living in denial.

GooseBaba:
First of all how does a charm look like..?

Same question what's the point of a bullet proof vest. a bullet proof vest cannot guarantee the wearer that a bullet will not go through the opening under his armpit, neck.

GooseBaba:
This is simply science it has nothing to do with spirit world. You can toughen your skin with different substance. Just like you can smooth, darken or lighten your skin with different substance. Same thing done differently through ingesting certain herbs and traditional injection.

analice107:
Is it that you deny these things or they don't happen where you come from?
when i was a kid, there were these Jaz men who come to entertain us with magic, afterwards sell their wares. A man will use this knife Mae Suya uses to slice through their stomach, stick it into their eyes, nothing happens. A man will lie down and a plank will be place on him, a car will drive through him, nothing will happen to him, i have seen a man who lifted a car with his teeth off the ground. he stood erect with the car by his teeth.
An Hausa man came to my village, he never went into the River, How he did it, no one knows till this day, but he tied a robe to a stick by the bank of the river and spiritually tied an Hippopotamus and pulled it to the river bank and it was killed. He never stepped inside the water.
I have seen where a man took an empty giant Milo Can , opened it for us to see it was empty, closed it, shook it and open it again, steaming hot Jellof rice filled the Can, he scoped it out and people ate it to prove it was indeed rice.
Its either you are lying or you are living in denial.

Oluwaseytiano:
What is atheism? And, havent u seen Christians who don't believe in the supernatural?

plaetton:
Juju , just like God, is a contradiction in terms.

Juju is supposed to be the possession and display of supernatural powers.

Just like God, we have never in a stadium been serviced with a display of supernatural juju.
Everything about juju, just like God, is dem say, dem say.

If juju was real, the world's technological, military and economic superpowers would be a roll call of super juju Nations.

We had juju, but few oyinbo men sailed thousands of miles across the seas to steal our sons and daughters for hundreds of years ?

And they walked right back to take all our land, our resources, gave us medicine to heal out sick, showed us better ways to plant our crops, etc. Etc.

Nonsense.
Just like God, we invent the myth of juju to scare ourselves.
Nothing more.

KingEbukasBlog:
Mtcheeew ...

GrizzlyBear:
Before I proceed, what Is Juju?
Juju is a common Nigerian term for Black magic. It's also referred to by some Nigerians as Jazz. It's basically the evoking of supernatural powers/forces to perform a task or objective. This objective may include the bad ones such as: causing harm to someone, either by inflicting them with a certain critical unexplainable illness, or causing their death. It may also include the good or supposedly good ones such as: healing someone, making someone rich or protecting oneself from the effect of weapons such as guns and blades.

Now, I was born a christian and I was indoctrinated in the religion of christianity and I have since upheld it's doctrines until recently when I began to question these doctrines and beliefs and the general concept of religion(the belief in a God) as a whole. My questioning and search for knowledge led me to Nairaland; Religion section especially, and I must say, I have gone through a massive mental shift in my perception of Christianity and Religion, thanks to the objective arguments and comments of users like Cloudgoddess and Johnydon22 and other intelligently and rational minded Nairalanders.

I have decided to bid goodbye to religion and embrace atheism, but one thing is holding me back. I have discredited every other belief I had been indoctrinated in; The believe in the so called goodness of God, the believe that Christianity is the one true religion and every other religion is a lie, the believe in the tooth-fairy like biblical creation story, other fallible biblical explanations for the existence and essence of humanity and the various baseless beliefs enveloped under the umbrella of Christianity.
But like I said, one thing is holding me back and making me doubt the position of atheists and their believe that God and the supernatural doesn't exist- And that thing is the evidencial existence of Juju.

As I continue, I would like to share these few stories.

As I was perusing through NL one day, I came across a thread where a doctor on NL shared the tale of a girl was brought to the hospital where he worked and this girl was said to have been complaining of extreme stomach ache. When a scan was done, the doctors noticed something that they hadn't seen before- There were live insects seen crawling around the walls of her stomach and internal organs. According to the doctor, there was nothing anyone could do about her condition and after few hours, she died. Now, under medical cross examination, there was no explanation for how these insects found their way and were able to survive inside her. This girl was said to have been inflicted by the person she had sex with trough Juju, supposedly for money rituals.
If a supernatural force from where whosoever did this evil to the girl drew his power from didn't exist, then how was this possible?

Growing up, I lived close to a popular university here in Nigeria, and one day I witnessed a cultist attack on a cult member of another cult group. Right in my presence this guy was shot multiple times with a pistol and the bullet didn't penetrate his body, it was not until his pursuers caught up to him and after realizing their guns were useless, they used a machete and cut him with it till he died.
Now, how was this guy able to withstand the effect of bullets?

When I was in secondary school, I had a female friend who traveled to her village for a ceremony, and one morning as she woke up to urinate, she stepped on the door mat in front of her room and she became paralyzed instantly. Not only that, her legs began to swell up. She was taken to different hospitals but nothing could be done to curb her strange illness. It was not until she contacted a spiritualist that the cause of her illness was revealed. Now this isn't a here say story. She told me herself. She even showed me pictures of her legs.
If Juju doesn't exist, how was this possible?

I used these stories because they are ones I saw with my eyes and life experiences from people I can validate them from. Aside from these ones, I have heard other stories of people who were struck supernaturally, with ailments that couldn't be explained medically. Stories of people who were sick almost to the point of death, but all body processes were functioning properly, and in medical terms, they were healthy.

I have heard of people who sacrificed their fellow humans and family members to make money, and they actually made the money. Everyday we hear of stories of people how were kidnapped, some killed, with some of their body parts supposedly stolen for ritualistic purposes. If these rituals didn't actually work, people wouldn't invest into it right? So it means it works and people benefit from it and others are able to see evidence and decided to sell their conscience and delve into it.

Atheists in the house, what's the logical and rational explanation for this? Where do these people draw their powers from? How are all these occurrences possible? Does this mean supernatural powers exist? If it does, then there must be a hierarchy, and a power has to be at the top of the power chain..

I have heard stories of people who claimed they were once evil and they wielded special powers but these powers were overcome by the power of the christian God. If God and the supernatural doesn't exist, how is all this possible?

Your replies would be highly appreciated. Please pardon the length of my post.

Cc
Johnydon22
Cloudgoddess
PastorAIO
Freecocoa
Hardmirror
JackBizzle
Sonoflucifer
Plaetton
Sarassin
Alfamann
Oluwaseytiano
Kaboninc
Dazzlingd
Lepasharon
Calliope
Santori
Purerealist
Simplex2
Deepsight
Thehomer
Ifenes
Juststardust
Immorttal
Muttleylaff
Gatiano
Holocron

kevoh:
Lol... Someone like you will believe Chris Angel is a devil who has powers to perform magic tricks!

dalaman:
You are too close minded and ignorant. Please watch the secrets of magic revealed on YouTube and see how all these tricks and more are revealed. World famous Magicans like David Copperfield, Richard Angel and Randi have all stated that there is nothing like the supernatural when it comes to magic. It's all an illusion. These men do things on camera that no juju mam in your village can ever do. But they still say it's all tricks. Why then should any body believe you a gullible spectator?

donnffd:
Like you yourself said, they came to entertain you with magic tricks, because you were fooled with some magic tricks as a child doesn't mean they had supernatural powers!

Magic is what it is, an illusion and as a child, its easier for you to fall for the trick than an adult,but even at that those people must hav practiced those tricks for years for them to be pros at it

analice107:
hmmm. okay. But one of those guys playing with knives died in another occasion. They came again, brandishing knives, slicing here and there, but silently in the crowed stood one man who had come there to challenge them with h his own potent charms. The Magic was slicing his stomach, and the knife went through and all his intestines came gushing out. The whole scattered, his colleagues tried to rush him to the hospital, he died.
What kind of tricks can you do to lift a car, a whole car with the driver still at the steering, with your teeth, lie on the floor and a car drives over you?
What about the Jellof rice inside an empty Milo Can? this one i wasn't a Child.

johnydon22:
This story in particular saddened me to my marrows, because such instances actually happens in our medical arena, it is a pointer sadly to how backwards, retarded and imbecilic Africans can be even the supposedly educated ones.

Any doctor who thinks an ailment is juju because he has no idea what is going on should be stripped off his certificates because they are completely useless and his years in universities wasted.

When will people learn, ignorance is not a gap that should be filled with an absurd assumption.

That he has no idea what happened means he don't

But i'm not surprised since you even mentioned it was a NL doctor ...

Now let me tell my own story..

Back forward like 600years ago in the medieval era, superstition was prevalent in europe just like it is now firmly grounded in Africa.

Once upon a time during this time in the history of Europe, the doctors of that era actually thought Epilepsy was a demonic attack.

Now 21st century, doctors do not think that, we now know better except of course some imbeciles in white dress seating in some African hospitals.

It is a sad reality that some doctors in Africa has turned medical practice in Africa into a voodoo diagnosing point, a laughing stock in the global scale of an incredibly civilized and informed 21st century world.

Left to such persons we would still be thinking Epilepsy was a demonic attack, or H.I.V as a result of village people attacking someone.

Tell me is that the type of world you'd like to live in?

A world that backwards, primitive and crude?

Where some illiterates in white dress (Some African doctors) suggest juju, in saner climes they would be working tirelessly day and night in the lab to find out exactly what is going on and possibly when that is achieved find a cure thereby saving millions.

Human body can harbour a whole lot of parasites, rationally it is possible a certain type of insect can be one of such too.
Can't the egg of such an insect be ingested through contaminated foods? thereby hatching in a hosts body?

It was a strange sight for the doctor, but it was actually a call for study to find out what really is and not conjure the absurd notion of juju to fill a gap of ignorance.

Even though the story seems very vague to me as the type of scan was not mentioned, the type of insect either i'd not touch that.

Now a world of advice from me
Believe what ever you want, juju/magic, jazz but any day you come to a hospital for diagnosis and the doctor says.

"Uuuhm young man i can't really find out what's wrong with you, its strange and i don't understand it, i think or strongly believe it must be juju"

Please my brother, take your shoes, dust them and run for your dear life..

donnffd:
Have you heard of David Blaine or Chris angel?, I suggest you watch some of their magic tricks on youtube, it is synonymous to what we call juju here.

Just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean it is supernatural.

Imagine these scenario, both of us where to stumble upon a time traveling machine and jump back in time to the ancient Greeks carrying our smart phones(now ignore the mobile service infrastructure), if we were to make calls to one another and these ancients saw us, they would regard us has gods because we can communicate over tremendous distances at an instant, the most intelligent of them might reject us has gods but would still be amazed at the powers we have, they might be tempted to think its supernatural...Nope, its not, its purely physics and perfectly natural, but because they dnt understand some concepts, it would seem supernatural to them. Now lets jump into the future, we would be shocked what we would find, sentient computer, teleportation, faster than light travel, uploading your consciousness to a flash drive, things of that sort, things we can't imagine, would you call it supernatural?, I doubt it, so why call the little one here that you don't understand, supernatural?

donnffd:
Have you heard of David Blaine or Chris angel?, I suggest you watch some of their magic tricks on youtube, it is synonymous to what we call juju here.

Just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean it is supernatural.

Imagine these scenario, both of us where to stumble upon a time traveling machine and jump back in time to the ancient Greeks carrying our smart phones(now ignore the mobile service infrastructure), if we were to make calls to one another and these ancients saw us, they would regard us has gods because we can communicate over tremendous distances at an instant, the most intelligent of them might reject us has gods but would still be amazed at the powers we have, they might be tempted to think its supernatural...Nope, its not, its purely physics and perfectly natural, but because they dnt understand some concepts, it would seem supernatural to them. Now lets jump into the future, we would be shocked what we would find, sentient computer, teleportation, faster than light travel, uploading your consciousness to a flash drive, things of that sort, things we can't imagine, would you call it supernatural?, I doubt it, so why call the little one here that you don't understand, supernatural?

Oluwaseytiano:
Av seen Christians who don't believe in juju, FACT.

Barristter07:
freecocoa



while trying to prove smart, you are actually showing ignorance with your post above.


there are some medical cases in which medical practitioners sense the influence of black powers in the condition of some patients , would you say this doesnt exist too ?

johnydon22:
Well to start first of all, yes i am one of those who don't believe in the spirity juju claims, for very straight reasons.

For anything to be displayed in a television it must be directly a picture of the television, we don't see pictures in the t.v and say

"You see this picture? out of all the pictures in this television that one is actually alien from the television and is super-television image"

So too is the relationship between things manifesting in nature and the idea of supernatural. . .Anything manifesting within nature is nature, if there are ghosts and they can actually appear in this natural world then they are completely natural.

Thats why i like the name superNATURAL. . it speaks a lot, still Natural but super, in fact all of nature is super so there is nothing special in that word

I have always said "People would believe any idea rooted on their ignorance"

The only time people invoke Juju, spirity, supernatural is when they lack the fundamental information regarding what actually happened, it's almost like they are only invoked as a place holder for ignorance.


Take for instance the doctor instance you gave, you are inclined to believe it's juju simply because you had no idea how it happened.

If we all subscribe to that line of thought humanity would still be primitive and sadly naive, i am sorry to use such blunt words.

That you had no idea how it happened means you don't not juju which in fact is as vague as vague can get...

The things we term juju, black magic or any other ridiculous term people may curb out for it are simply a simplistic way of filling up ignorance with absurd fearful superstition, vague ideas.

A simple probe would actually reveal what really is.

Have you watched a magic show before? they perform incredible feats that are fascinating and out of the world but simply probe further than meets the eye everything falls apart, once the tactics behind the illusion is unraveled it becomes useless.

I will pick your stories one after the other, show the holes in some, explain in my own understanding (since i wasn't there) some of the instances.

But before i proceed i will also want to emphasize the blatant naive misconception here.

[b]Atheism has nothing to do with Juju/spirity beliefs.

Atheism doesn't mean disbelief in spirits, No! atheism simply means disbelief in God.

whether you believe in juju or not is blatantly independent of it ..

Juju/jazz or anything or other superstitions around them can be independent of belief in God.

One can believe such thing and be an atheist as long as such a person does not believe in any God.

One can still believe in a God and not juju/jazz stuffs... so you see?

Do not equate atheists as people who do not believe in juju that is wrong, Atheist is just a word labeled on those who don't believe in God(s)

What ever it is you believe or not believe after that is your own cup of personal tea.

there are some atheists who buy the juju beliefs only that majority of we atheists in this 21st century tend to lean towards science as the most reliable way of truthful deductions and so we tend to dismiss the juju claims.

I only want to correct this first since your questions were actually based on that wrong premise of "atheist not believing in juju" here you have it, some do…
[/b]

Now i will pick your stories one after the other, i will give my personal rational explanations to it, expose some holes, but in no way claims my opinions are absolutely true.

you need not agree to them, i won't even argue here.

I will address them from the perspective of an atheist who don't believe in Juju things, an atheist who does probably will agree with you that juju exists but no God(s)

johnydon22:
Only in Africa explains why most black politicians abandon our hospitals for western ones when they fall sick.

to avoid such imbecilic unprofessionalism.

johnydon22:
Only in Africa explains why most black politicians abandon our hospitals for western ones when they fall sick.

to avoid such imbecilic unprofessionalism.

waldigit:
Beloved you have good heart. I was once in ur state of mind hence I am passionate about you. Pls the truth is Jesus. Go 4 it. One of d greatest trick of devil is Atheism and only Fools fall for it.

wirinet:
My johnny, i still can't thank you enough for the wonderful work you are doing here to free our youth from religious indoctrination. The time and effort you take in de-indoctrination of our youth is enormous. We need our youths to use their time, energy and innovation to chart our future instead of wasting their time only on religious activities. You remind me of the legendary Tai Solarin, he was responsible for my own de-indoctrination in the early 80's.

Let me add my on opinion on this so called "insert in the body juju". Even though we do not have the full details of the diagnosis of the doctor, so we can know the type of insect and where they infected the body, insects infecting the human body is no big deal. My best friend once had a big insect and (larva of some sort of fly), removed from his skin, it was huge. I think fly larva infecting the skin is fairly common in Nigeria. As for fully grown insects like cockroaches and terminates, i do not know, but i do know that the human body is capable of labouring a large number of parasites.

If a qualified medical doctor (a scientist) actually saw strange insects in a patients body and just shouted "juju", then that doctor should have his license revoked. Even if he was not curious enough to actually obtain samples of the insects for further examination, he should have at least reported the strange case to the Federal ministry of health and the world health organization to stop further infestations. If the world (human body) is being invaded by alien insects or strange disease, that is how a Nigerian doctor will throw his hands up and shout juju.

analice107:
I watch Chris Angel, i am not so familiar the other guy you mentioned.
Fine, they are called tricks and on TV.
Am talking about the ones i have see with my eyes. The Jellof Rice episode its not that long ago, in the broad day light. The guy picked the Can, opened it for everyone to see the content, it was empty. He closed it, still holding it, all he did was shake it, he opened it again, hot steaming Jellof Rice, with meat. Guys collected that rice and ate.
And Why don't we UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS?
Listen dear, am a Christian and don't lay attention to what satan and his Seeds are doing, but there are stuff you come across that you cant just dismiss. Satan has his power believe it or not, these things are real.
Another Magician came up saying, those trying to explain away Magic as mere tricks, are doing so with the intent of denying aatan's existence, its all an act. All of them are in the same boat

kevoh:
Bullet proof vest makers have never claimed vests will do the impossible like charm users claim to. It does not make you Superman. It's without doubt glaring to the unbiased observer you'll get hurt if shot in exposed parts like the leg, hand, head or under the armpit even on the chest with the vest on if shot at close range.

While for the charm bullet proof makers, believers and users the popular opinion has always being you are impenetrable. Yoruba movies always depict this even the OP made mention of it . You on the other hand are coming with a new natural science spin (the first I'm learning ) which actually rubbishes and kills the popular held notion by believers and users and takes us back to square one that so called charms DO NOT WORK.

donnffd:
When a magician tells you a trick is happening here,the real trick is happening somewhere else...

Why did he close the container and shake it? Why ddnt he just make the rice appear right in front of your faces, I am very sure the trick happened at d time he was shaking that container...dude fine, you are religious, I respect that, but I haven't seen any real evidence for the supernatural, and I don't think any exists

GrizzlyBear:
Your replies would be highly appreciated. Please pardon the length of my post.

Cc
Johnydon22
Cloudgoddess
PastorAIO
Freecocoa
Hardmirror
JackBizzle
Sonoflucifer
Plaetton
Sarassin
Alfamann
Oluwaseytiano
Kaboninc
Dazzlingd
Lepasharon
Calliope
Santori
Purerealist
Simplex2
Deepsight
Thehomer
Ifenes
Juststardust
Immorttal
Muttleylaff
Gatiano
Holocron

analice107:
Is it that you deny these things or they don't happen where you come from?
when i was a kid, there were these Jaz men who come to entertain us with magic, afterwards sell their wares. A man will use this knife Mae Suya uses to slice through their stomach, stick it into their eyes, nothing happens. A man will lie down and a plank will be place on him, a car will drive through him, nothing will happen to him, i have seen a man who lifted a car with his teeth off the ground. he stood erect with the car by his teeth.
An Hausa man came to my village, he never went into the River, How he did it, no one knows till this day, but he tied a robe to a stick by the bank of the river and spiritually tied an Hippopotamus and pulled it to the river bank and it was killed. He never stepped inside the water.
I have seen where a man took an empty giant Milo Can , opened it for us to see it was empty, closed it, shook it and open it again, steaming hot Jellof rice filled the Can, he scoped it out and people ate it to prove it was indeed rice.
Its either you are lying or you are living in denial.

plaetton:
Which medical practitioners?

Third world doctors , even when well trained, don't have modern medical equipment to quickly diagnose most modern diseases and cancers.

So, it's very easy for I'll equipped doctors to give up when ailments fall beyond the diagnostic capabilities of their equipments.

But how come we only hear this kind of stuff in semi primitive societies?

The key denominators being SUPERSTITION and technological challenges.

analice107:
Hmm. You said you are SURE the trick happened while he shook the Container, as in, he trickishly switched the container with another one while still standing there before my korokoro eyes in the afternoon? Its well.
You said it was physics, and i wanted to understand the physics of lifting a car with teeth, standing up right with his hands behind his back.

donnffd:
Have you heard of David Blaine or Chris angel?, I suggest you watch some of their magic tricks on youtube, it is synonymous to what we call juju here.

Just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean it is supernatural.

Imagine these scenario, both of us where to stumble upon a time traveling machine and jump back in time to the ancient Greeks carrying our smart phones(now ignore the mobile service infrastructure), if we were to make calls to one another and these ancients saw us, they would regard us has gods because we can communicate over tremendous distances at an instant, the most intelligent of them might reject us has gods but would still be amazed at the powers we have, they might be tempted to think its supernatural...Nope, its not, its purely physics and perfectly natural, but because they dnt understand some concepts, it would seem supernatural to them. Now lets jump into the future, we would be shocked what we would find, sentient computer, teleportation, faster than light travel, uploading your consciousness to a flash drive, things of that sort, things we can't imagine, would you call it supernatural?, I doubt it, so why call the little one here that you don't understand, supernatural?