If there is Satan there must be God.

Satan being a lesser spirit and driven to the world from heaven (Revelations 12) operates prominently on the earth. Satan is behind magic and I have seen magic performed wonderfully on many occasions.

I have witnessed Hausa people cut their belly with a very sharp knife without a cut. That is magical and Satan is behind magic.

Some years ago, there was a clash between the OPC and Hausa people in Lagos. The OPC militants staged a checkpoint in front of the house I was residing at that time. Then, the Federal Government despatched anti-riot police, loads of them to the area and began to shoot at the boys but magically, none of them was killed or injured by the bullets. The bullets penetrated electric poles, water tanks and some houses, killing a man inside his room. What was desplayed was the power of charm, which Satan was the source.

I was in a house one day in the night when I saw the image of three birds on the ceiling. Just the image. I raised an alarm and they disappeared. I told the people around but found it difficult to believe but shortly after the incident, they appeared again and people in that house saw them by themselves. That is the work of witches headed by Satan.

One or two of the above incidents must have been witnessed by some or many of the atheists. Therefore there can't be Satan without God.

Hmmmm! Food for thought...I love d point u hv raised.Because here in Africa,we don't need more prove to knw dt there is Satan.But Y do this pple doubt d superior and benevolent power of God? Cos left to Satan,d world wud hv collapsed.

Ronpet777:
Hmmmm! Food for thought...I love d point u hv raised.Because here in Africa,we don't need more prove to knw dt there is Satan.But Y do this pple doubt d superior and benevolent power of God? Cos left to Satan,d world wud hv collapsed.

Succinct !!!

truthmans2012:

Succinct !!!

Thanks bro... [quote author=truthmans2012 post=46152398]

Interesting...why are supernatural claims always vague and no real evidence for it?

Do you believe there are people who believe they were kidnapped by aliens and experimented on, would you believe them or you would say its satan?

Or would you be a rational thinker and ask, where is the evidence of your abduction?

So, until someone brings me tangible proof of the supernatural(if anything like that exists?), i remain skeptical and would use reason to evaluate scenerios like this...

donnffd:
Interesting...why are supernatural claims always vague and no real evidence for it?

Do you believe there are people who believe they were kidnapped by aliens and experimented on, would you believe them or you would say its satan?

Or would you be a rational thinker and ask, where is the evidence of your abduction?

So, until someone brings me tangible proof of the supernatural(if anything like that exists?), i remain skeptical and would use reason to evaluate scenerios like this...

Do you watch magic on TV ?

How old are you ? Haven't you seen Hausa magicians before?

Haven't you seen charms work ? Who is behind it?

Search for magic on Google and come and tell me your discovery here.

Magic:

Magic (paranormal)

Magic or sorcery is the use of rituals, symbols, actions, gestures, and language with the aim of exploiting supernatural forces.[1][2]:6-7[3][4]:24 The belief in and practice of magic has been present since the earliest human cultures and continues to have an important spiritual, religious, and medicinal role in many cultures today.[5]

Psychological theories consider magic a personal phenomenon intended to meet individual needs as opposed to a social phenomenon serving a collective purpose. The belief that one can influence supernatural powers, by prayer, sacrifice, or invocation dates back to prehistoric religions and it can be found in early records such as the Egyptian pyramid texts and the Indian Vedas.[6]

Magic and religion are categories of beliefs and systems of knowledge used within societies. Some forms of shamanic contact with the spirit world seem to be nearly universal in the early development of human communities. They appear in various tribal peoples from Aboriginal Australia and Māori people of New Zealand to the Amazon, African savannah, and pagan Europe.

Magic is sometimes practiced in isolation and secrecy and often viewed with skepticism and suspicion by the wider community.[4]:24 In non-scientific societies, a perceived magical attack is sometimes employed to explain personal or societal misfortune.[7]

The term "magical thinking" in anthropology, psychology, and cognitive science refers to causal reasoning often involving associative thinking, such as the perceived ability of the mind to affect the physical world (see the philosophical problem of mental causation) or correlation mistaken for materialist causation.

The concept of magic, considered distinct from religion, was first widely recognized in Judaism, which defined the practices of pagan worship designed to appease and receive benefits from gods other than Yahweh as magic.[2]:6-7 Wouter Hanegraaff argues that magic is in fact "a largely polemical concept that has been used by various religious interest groups either to describe their own religious beliefs and practices or—more frequently—to discredit those of others."[3]

Modern Western magicians generally state magic's primary purpose to be personal spiritual growth.[8]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(paranormal)

You expect to challenge atheists by citing someone somewhere who swears that they saw something but can't really prove it? What a waste of time.

Bring my some experiment that I can reproduce myself and observe the results myself. Don't give me the testimony of superstitious, gullible peasants.

truthmans2012:


Do you watch magic on TV ?

How old are you ? Haven't you seen Hausa magicians before?

Haven't you seen charms work ? Who is behind it?

Search for magic on Google and come and tell me your discovery here.

First of all, i dont know what my age has to do with anything

Secondly, listen to yourself, Magic...whats magic?
Whats the aim of a magician? Why does a magician like to command an audience?, why do they collect money for their shows?

People like to be dazzled, thats why the pay to see themselves get fooled because the brain is a very vulnerable organ and can be easily fooled by well practiced tricks...

onetrack:
You expect to challenge atheists by citing someone somewhere who swears that they saw something but can't really prove it? What a waste of time.

Bring my some experiment that I can reproduce myself and observe the results myself. Don't give me the testimony of superstitious, gullible peasants.

Mind your language! You don't have to speak like an uncultured child. What angered you in the thread that you have to start throwing an insult?

What evidence do you expect in the spiritual things that are invisible ? You can only see the effects and not the causes. You can only see what the spirits are doing and not the spirits themselves.

Do you see the air? Don't you feel it?

donnffd:


First of all, i dont know what my age has to do with anything

Secondly, listen to yourself, Magic...whats magic?
Whats the aim of a magician? Why does a magician like to command an audience?, why do they collect money for their shows?

People like to be dazzled, thats why the pay to see themselves get fooled because the brain is a very vulnerable organ and can be easily fooled by well practiced tricks...

So you called sharp knife not cutting human flesh tricks ? You called guns not penetrating human body tricks ?

I asked for your age because you might not be old enough to have seen some things in life.

truthmans2012:


So you called sharp knife not cutting human flesh tricks ? You called guns not penetrating human body tricks ?

I asked for your age because you might not be old enough to have seen some things in life.

Please spare me that age bullcrap, its insulting and i hope you are more courteous next time when discussing with people rather than ask for their age because they dont agree with your idealogy...

As for Magic, ever heard of matt franco or david blaine or cris angel? Go on youtube, search and see what these guys do...there is this two guys like that, forgotten their names but they are magicians and guess what, they are atheists...These people do things that seem supernatural, but there is always something underneath the cloak that you the audience is not seeing

donnffd:


Please spare me that age bullcrap, its insulting and i hope you are more courteous next time when discussing with people rather than ask for their age because they dont agree with your idealogy...

As for Magic, ever heard of matt franco or david blaine or cris angel? Go on youtube, search and see what these guys do...there is this two guys like that, forgotten their names but they are magicians and guess what, they are atheists...These people do things that seem supernatural, but there is always something underneath the cloak that you the audience is not seeing

Asking for your age is no insult, it is just to check out your experience in life. Is this the first time you would hear "how old are you" with no insult intended?

You skipped my questions about sharp knife and AK-47 gun above.

truthmans2012:
If there is Satan there must be God.

Satan being a lesser spirit and driven to the world from heaven (Revelations 12) operates prominently on the earth. Satan is behind magic and I have seen magic performed wonderfully on many occasions.

I have witnessed Hausa people cut their belly with a very sharp knife without a cut. That is magical and Satan is behind magic.

Some years ago, there was a clash between the OPC and Hausa people in Lagos. The OPC militants staged a checkpoint in front of the house I was residing at that time. Then, the Federal Government despatched anti-riot police, loads of them to the area and began to shoot at the boys but magically, none of them was killed or injured by the bullets. The bullets penetrated electric poles, water tanks and some houses, killing a man inside his room. What was desplayed was the power of charm, which Satan was the source.

I was in a house one day in the night when I saw the image of three birds on the ceiling. Just the image. I raised an alarm and they disappeared. I told the people around but found it difficult to believe but shortly after the incident, they appeared again and people in that house saw them by themselves. That is the work of witches headed by Satan.

One or two of the above incidents must have been witnessed by some or many of the atheists. Therefore there can't be Satan without God.

Honestly your argument is weak.

truthmans2012:


Asking for your age is no insult, it is just to check out your experience in life. Is this the first time you would hear "how old are you" with no insult intended?

You skipped my questions about sharp knife and AK-47 gun above.

I gave the examples of those magicians because they do very sneaky tricks, now if the hausa man was doing it for show, then obviously he must have practiced it well, i dnt claim to know his tricks, a magican never reveals his secrets but they are always secrets and obviously something you missed because you were busy being dazzled by his craft.

For the human bulletproof, i have no idea how thats possible, but if they claim it is, i would love to carry out an experiment in which they do their charm and i choose 5 types of ammunitions to test the charm...lets see how well it works

Julianyao:

Honestly your argument is weak.

Yours is much weaker because you have said nothing.

donnffd:


I gave the examples of those magicians because they do very sneaky tricks, now if the hausa man was doing it for show, then obviously he must have practiced it well, i dnt claim to know his tricks, a magican never reveals his secrets but they are always secrets and obviously something you missed because you were busy being dazzled by his craft.

For the human bulletproof, i have no idea how thats possible, but if they claim it is, i would love to carry out an experiment in which they do their charm and i choose 5 types of ammunitions to test the charm...lets see how well it works

You cannot have an idea how it works because you don't learn the art. Ask the OPC members how it works for them.

What experiment did you carry out on air that is invisible yet you feel its existence? Spiritual things are like air you can't see but yet they exist.

truthmans2012:


You cannot have an idea how it works because you don't learn the art. Ask the OPC members how it works for them.

Ofcourse i dont, and you too, thats why it seems supernatural to you, but i am sure if the secrets were spilled, it would be a very easy trick anyone can do

What experiment did you carry out on air that is invisible yet you feel its existence? Spiritual things are like air you can't see but yet they exist.

Lol, bro, Now i would ask how old are you?...Are you comparing the existence of air to the existence of spiritual things?...if you have a strong enough microscope, you can see the molecules of air, but even without it, you can feel air cant you?, spirits are suppose to be invisible, you cant feel, smell, see, hear or taste them, our instruments cant detect them but you claim they exist...are you kidding me?

truthmans2012:
If there is Satan there must be God.

Satan being a lesser spirit and driven to the world from heaven (Revelations 12) operates prominently on the earth. Satan is behind magic and I have seen magic performed wonderfully on many occasions.

I have witnessed Hausa people cut their belly with a very sharp knife without a cut. That is magical and Satan is behind magic.

Some years ago, there was a clash between the OPC and Hausa people in Lagos. The OPC militants staged a checkpoint in front of the house I was residing at that time. Then, the Federal Government despatched anti-riot police, loads of them to the area and began to shoot at the boys but magically, none of them was killed or injured by the bullets. The bullets penetrated electric poles, water tanks and some houses, killing a man inside his room. What was desplayed was the power of charm, which Satan was the source.

I was in a house one day in the night when I saw the image of three birds on the ceiling. Just the image. I raised an alarm and they disappeared. I told the people around but found it difficult to believe but shortly after the incident, they appeared again and people in that house saw them by themselves. That is the work of witches headed by Satan.

One or two of the above incidents must have been witnessed by some or many of the atheists. Therefore there can't be Satan without God.

Same hausa people are being Slaughtered by boko haram insurgents yet your so called magicians can't go nad help their brothers.
Same Yoruba were being Slaughtered by hausas during a recent clash at mile 12.
Don't be fooled by what u see... Satan does not exist. No one has seen him. Calling any evil mysterious thing you see Satan is just ridiculous. It does not prove the existence of Satan.
If your God likes hiding behind curtain does Satan like hiding too? Why can't Satan reveal himself? Since he is so desperate to bring people into hell (a very useless mission indeed) let him come out and come out and reveal himself to us, all these hide and seek games no de work again.

truthmans2012:


Mind your language! You don't have to speak like an uncultured child. What angered you in the thread that you have to start throwing an insult?

What evidence do you expect in the spiritual things that are invisible ? You can only see the effects and not the causes. You can only see what the spirits are doing and not the spirits themselves.

Do you see the air? Don't you feel it?

Then u have no case. You should have known that evidence is impossible before opening the thread.

Besides, why have I not seen what spirits are doing? Provide evidence of what spirits are doing. Are they afraid of doing anything in front of atheists?

"there is magic then there is god"
"opc members was shop and the bullet didn't penetrate then there is devil therefore there is god"
how can you just conclude like that? instead say i don't know how it happen so that others can unravel what you may think is a mystery behind it.

OgundeleT:
"there is magic then there is god"
"opc members was shop and the bullet didn't penetrate then there is devil therefore there is god"
how can you just conclude like that? instead say i don't know how it happen so that others can unravel what you may think is a mystery behind it.

has atheism block your sense of reasoning ? What is the source of this power ? Don't this power prove, their are supernatural and higher power contrary to what atheist claim ?

donnffd:


Ofcourse i dont, and you too, thats why it seems supernatural to you, but i am sure if the secrets were spilled, it would be a very easy trick anyone can do




Lol, bro, Now i would ask how old are you?...Are you comparing the existence of air to the existence of spiritual things?...if you have a strong enough microscope, you can see the molecules of air, but even without it, you can feel air cant you?, spirits are suppose to be invisible, you cant feel, smell, see, hear or taste them, our instruments cant detect them but you claim they exist...are you kidding me?

Why the molecules of air is seen and not the whole ? That a very strong instrument has to be used before you can see just the molecules means it is invisible to the physical eyes.

Spirits sometimes make themselves visible depending on their assignments. We have seen situations where angels appeared to men in the past. I told you of how I saw spirits in a house.

truthmans2012:


Why the molecules of air is seen and not the whole ? That a very strong instrument has to be used before you can see just the molecules means it is invisible to the physical eyes.

thats because the space inbetween the molecules are pretty much more than the space inbetween molecules of a liquid or a solid...this is basic science that we were taught far back in primary school. Please dont confuse a well understood scientific phenomena with a supernatural claim

Spirits sometimes make themselves visible depending on their assignments. We have seen situations where angels appeared to men in the past. I told you of how I saw spirits in a house.

smh... Now this is a supernatural claim, you claim spirits are beings with consciousness but are immaterial, when all that we know of conscious beings are material and visible, when i go out in the morning, i see conscious beings and i can interact with them.
Now if you want me or any scientifically inclined person to take you seriously, then you have to provide evidence of that supernatural claim, you cant just say "you saw" and expect us to believe it when none of that happens in our everyday lives.

i go back to the alien abduction case, some people claims they were abducted by Aliens, but so far as we know, there havent been any proof of aliens, so if someone makes a claim like that, he better have strong evidence to back his claim orelse he would be thrown to a mental facility, thats the exact case with your supernatural, spirit and angel claims...am i clear enough?

malvisguy212:
has atheism block your sense of reasoning ? What is the source of this power ? Don't this power prove, their are supernatural and higher power contrary to what atheist claim ?

atheism cant block anybody's sense of reasoning because it is not a religion, so i think the question can be for you and not me.
magic is a mystery to you doesn't make you to conclude it's god or evil that is behind it, just say i don't understand then others can study it further and draw a plausible conclusion that everybody will agree on. go on YouTube and type criss angel magic you will see magic you have never seen in your life there and criss is an atheist he will even tell you it is a trick. also, you cant say magic's source is devil when that devil itself is a claim like god you have not proved its existence so u have to firstly prove the existence of devil then prove the magic and from there you show us how both relate. telling us u see something mystery to you and god is behind it without a prove is still a claim

malvisguy212:
has atheism block your sense of reasoning ? What is the source of this power ? Don't this power prove, their are supernatural and higher power contrary to what atheist claim ?

atheism cant block anybody's sense of reasoning because it is not a religion, so i think the question can be for you and not me.
magic is a mystery to you doesn't make you to conclude it's god or evil that is behind it, just say i don't understand then others can study it further and draw a plausible conclusion that everybody will agree on. go on YouTube and type criss angel magic you will see magic you have never seen in your life there and criss is an atheist he will even tell you it is a trick. also, you cant say magic's source is devil when that devil itself is a claim like god you have not proved its existence so u have to firstly prove the existence of devil then prove the magic and from there you show us how both relate. telling us u see something mystery to you and god or devil is behind it without a prove is still a claim

malvisguy212:
has atheism block your sense of reasoning ? What is the source of this power ? Don't this power prove, their are supernatural and higher power contrary to what atheist claim ?

Bro don't mind them.

Even man has spirit and the spirit dwells inside the body. When the spirit leaves the body becomes dead. The spirit keeps living for eternity in heaven or hell when the body drops dead.

Why didn't atheists ask where the spirits of the dead are ? Or do they believe man doesn't have a spirit?

There is a substance called "spirit". This substance vanishes as soon as it is applied. Even the petrol we use to run our vehicles is called spirit (premium motor spirit). Why because it vanishes as it combusts. Where did man get the idea of "spirit" even in science if spirit doesn't exist?

donnffd:


thats because the space inbetween the molecules are pretty much more than the space inbetween molecules of a liquid or a solid...this is basic science that we were taught far back in primary school. Please dont confuse a well understood scientific phenomena with a supernatural claim



smh... Now this is a supernatural claim, you claim spirits are beings with consciousness but are immaterial, when all that we know of conscious beings are material and visible, when i go out in the morning, i see conscious beings and i can interact with them.
Now if you want me or any scientifically inclined person to take you seriously, then you have to provide evidence of that supernatural claim, you cant just say "you saw" and expect us to believe it when none of that happens in our everyday lives.

i go back to the alien abduction case, some people claims they were abducted by Aliens, but so far as we know, there havent been any proof of aliens, so if someone makes a claim like that, he better have strong evidence to back his claim orelse he would be thrown to a mental facility, thats the exact case with your supernatural, spirit and angel claims...am i clear enough?

If you are waiting to see spirits with your physical eyes you will wait forever. It is with the spiritual eyes you can see spiritual things.

Did you hear about UFO (unseen foreign object)?

Why do you think ritualists kill human for charm? Did you hear of soka case in Ibadan, Oyo State of Nigeria, where people were being killed to make money? If spirit does not exist, why all these?

My friend, your unbelief in the things of the spirit doesn't change anything. If you don't believe fire can burn does not remove the ability of fire to burn. Whether you believe it or not, the reality of life is that it is the spirit that controls the physical.

donnffd:


thats because the space inbetween the molecules are pretty much more than the space inbetween molecules of a liquid or a solid...this is basic science that we were taught far back in primary school. Please dont confuse a well understood scientific phenomena with a supernatural claim



smh... Now this is a supernatural claim, you claim spirits are beings with consciousness but are immaterial, when all that we know of conscious beings are material and visible, when i go out in the morning, i see conscious beings and i can interact with them.
Now if you want me or any scientifically inclined person to take you seriously, then you have to provide evidence of that supernatural claim, you cant just say "you saw" and expect us to believe it when none of that happens in our everyday lives.

i go back to the alien abduction case, some people claims they were abducted by Aliens, but so far as we know, there havent been any proof of aliens, so if someone makes a claim like that, he better have strong evidence to back his claim orelse he would be thrown to a mental facility, thats the exact case with your supernatural, spirit and angel claims...am i clear enough?

If you are waiting to see spirits with your physical eyes you will wait forever. It is with the spiritual eyes you can see spiritual things.

Did you hear about UFO (unseen foreign object)?

Why do you think ritualists kill human for charm? Did you hear of soka case in Ibadan, Oyo State of Nigeria, where people were being killed to make money? If spirit does not exist, why all these?

My friend, your unbelief in the things of the spirit doesn't change anything. If you don't believe fire can burn does not remove the ability of fire to burn. Whether you believe it or not, the reality of life is that it is the spirits that control the physical. Even your case of not believing in God or in the existence of spirits is the handiwork of the Devil, the invisible spirit.

Can you tell me scientifically how the sea came about? How is there blue and red sea?

truthmans2012:


If you are waiting to see spirits with your physical eyes you will wait forever. It is with the spiritual eyes you can see spiritual things.

Did you hear about UFO (unseen foreign object)?

Why do you think ritualists kill human for charm? Did you hear of soka case in Ibadan, Oyo State of Nigeria, where people were being killed to make money? If spirit does not exist, why all these?

My friend, your unbelief in the things of the spirit doesn't change anything. If you don't believe fire can burn does not remove the ability of fire to burn. Whether you believe it or not, the reality of life is that it is the spirits that control the physical. Even your case of not believing in God or in the existence of spirits is the handiwork of the Devil, the invisible spirit.

Can you tell me scientifically how the sea came about? How is there blue and red sea?

Oh, I get it! You're messing with us. This is a joke.

NOBODY can be this dumb

truthmans2012:


Why the molecules of air is seen and not the whole ? That a very strong instrument has to be used before you can see just the molecules means it is invisible to the physical eyes.

Spirits sometimes make themselves visible depending on their assignments. We have seen situations where angels appeared to men in the past. I told you of how I saw spirits in a house.

Pls think smart my brother... if u compare spiritual manipulation with air why is it that everyone accepts the presence of air but spiritual matters remains a controversial thing all over world? Isn't it obvious that there is something fishy?