₦airaland Forum

hardywaltz:
Op the problem is the Nigerian University curriculum.

Structural engineering (which I think UniBen is the only school offering it) is different from pure Civil Engineering.
Nigerian Civil Engineers are the worst in the construction industry.
They are lazy, they lack creativity, they like to simplify a project and the truth is that they don't even have their own standard always using British Standard Code (BS) or Euro Standard code.

The Nigerian Quantity Surveyors have moved from SMM 7 which is what RICS uses to BESMM 4 which is tailored to Nigerian construction industry peculiarities.

how can you say a profession is lazy and lack creativity? that's too silly. you've definitely not met the good ones there.

Building industry is a team work. civil engineering has branches and not all civil engr. Can handle building construction. many specialise into highway, hydro etc. Well that is why we have Builders whose sole responsibility is to undertake the construction of a building ensuring that the architect and structural Engr's design and specifications is adhered to. I blame clients who don't know the difference and patronize quacks.

Note: Most civil engineers don't face their own line of construction you will see a civil engineer doing a builders work...... Let civil engineers focus on highway designs and
construction, geotechnical and water resources which is their specialization....
Architect is meant to design and not to build..... Nigerians believe they have degree relating to construction they can do everything ie be an architect, builder, structural engineer at the same time......

Op you try na but why don't you talk about some stupid design provide by Arch that is no realistic.... You can design on paper n look real n beautiful but when you wnt to constructn you realize it can't work out... As a professonal if you do design today by tomorrow you should be able to point out your mistake n corret it on site...so you can't just conclude to be blame Civil Engr for any good looking building in the world Today give credit to Engr so if Arch n Engr are no working 2geda as a team d work will be perfect

Hello ,

Do you know there are less than 40,000 Registered Engineers in Nigeria ? This includes Civil, Electrical, mechanical etc.

Kindly ruminate on that.

Oga on site you can corret each other and what builder think is right on the site Civil Engr will tell you it can't work so either Arch or build jst calm and ask why it can't work but they wil be thinking you are doing like oga....Op is talking about dubai and Europe did you think their Arch design rubbish

markemordi:
Note: Most civil engineers don't face their own line of construction you will see a civil engineer doing a builders work...... Let civil engineers focus on highway designs and
construction, geotechnical and water resources which is their specialization....
Architect is meant to design and not to build..... Nigerians believe they have degree relating to construction they can do everything ie be an architect, builder, structural engineer at the same time......

CASTOSVILLA:
This is to counter this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3040875/very-important-mistakes-architects-make.
1. ACCEPTING THEIR LIMITATIONS
Architects are the real consultants and their duty is to bring together the building team in other to achieve optimum desired goal in any building project. Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every espect of the building construction.

2. POOR AND WRONG STRUCTURAL DETAILS AND CALCULATION SHEET
I've witnessed this in many cases and I don't know whether the cause is laziness or lack of the knowledge. Most of them depend on software like Orion and the rest to do the job instead of using AutoCad to exercise their ability. Will the Architect be blamed after the collapse of the building due to wrong and misleading structural details and specifications?
3. LIMITATION IN STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE AND APPLICATION/ LACK OF CONFIDENCE.
Imagine when an Architect know better in terms of structural intergrity and construction methods. Most Architect design ground breaking edifice hoping that the so called Civil Engr will do justice to it, the next thing he'll hear is,"this is not achievable". Most Civil engineers are afraid to challenge themselves thereby resorting to denials and excuses not to handle a project beyond there technical/engineering capabilities. Some cannot extent a cantilever more than 900mm without applying a pillar. Any point of intersection of beams, a pillar is introduced. At the end of the day, pillar are seen everywhere. Some knows nothing about expansion joints even when it's clearly representated in the design. A whole lot of structural blunders are being commited by these Civil Engrs that one continues to wonder.
4. LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THE USE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL MATERIALS (esp Steel)
Whenever you watch foreign football you'll notice the length at which they span the cantilever in their stadiums. Have you wondered why even at such span, it still carries a lot of spectators with ease. What type of material was used (even if you know), how was it constructed (most of our Civil Engrs do not know this and are not willing to know). Come to think of the little we do over here with rod, sand, stone and cement, some of these civil engineers cannot properly specify the correct mixture and proper reinforcement rather, they resort to guess work.
5. NOT WELL TRAVELLED
It pains me as an Architect whenever I get into an arguement with any of the Civil engineers in regards to the structural intergrity of some conceptual designs and the ones already constructed. Most Civil Engineers hate to see designs with concept. It beats their ability and it weakens their mind. I use this medium to urge our indeginous Civil Engrs to take their time and travel outside Nigeria. Go to Dubai, France, Italy, USA etc, go see for yourselves. Things you cannot do, go and see people doing it!

NOTE: I've worked with a lot of Civil Engrs and I can say that only few of them understand what is required of them and can relate to the above argument. The reasonable ones won't argue but will try to go back and improve on themselves.
Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable, the problem is from the construction method.
FOR THE CLIENTS: Do not patronize roadside Architects, always sort the help of a qualified Architect no matter the price. Because YOU the clients thinks that you're smart, therefore ending up with regrets. Consult a qualified Civil Engr for your projects and stop cutting corners.

i like this your line : ''Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable''. Same can be said of a structural engineer


you even said the engineers rely on Orion instead of auto Cad, my dear these are two different kind of softwares for different purposes so don't confuse others if you have no idea

lastly, it is the job of the structural engineer to give bones(reinforcements) to the so-called autoCad design you do without knowing how it would stand, because yours it to draw 4meter cantilever span without any knowledge on how it would be supported.

NOTE: NOT ALL CIVIL ENGINEERS ARE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS

DrLee:
how can you say a profession is lazy and lack creativity? that's too silly. you've definitely not met the good ones there.

I have worked with over 200 Civil Engineers including Professors.

Take it from me the Nigerian Civil Engineers/All Engineers are lazy and theory crammers

You just hit the nail on the head. Don't go to quacks and insult the whole profession. Employ the services of competent engineers and be willing to pay them their appropriate fees.

einsteino:
The hard truth is an architect draws pretty pictures that he has no idea how to make stand. There is no limitation to what an architect can model. One can model a completely suspended building in revit, archicad.. Can cantilever 40 metre span.. Can have an overhang of 400 sq metre supported by just a brick wall.. It is all just pictures and models.. The civil engr tells him what is obtainable within the budget and the prevailing technical conditions in the country. The way the industry works, engrs call architects dreamers and architects call engrs killjoys.


You dont hve to feel bitter about it. It is one thing to dream, it is another to make it work. It is not too late to go get a second degree in civil engineering so you can have all the competent technical know how you require to make your projects be the way you wish.
moreso nigeria isnt dubai, it is the truth. Such pojects require a lot of money for an engr to be able to explore alot of options and assmeble a large team. Here it is hard to even specialise, i have done many projects that budgetary constraints made me negotiate modifications with the architect. Heck it is almost mission impossible to produce grade 40 concrete in Nigeria. What are engrs to do? The client doesnt want to spend money on his own project, the engr isnt paid something that even encourages thinking outside the box.

Yes there are incompetent engrs. I have met a number of them, but the truth is alot of folks who parade themselves as civil engrs are not, architects also parade themselves as engrs and i too have met a good number of incompetent architects. I work as a consultant/design structural engr and i know the sacrifices and efforts it takes to be a competent engr. Civil engineering is very tasking, mentally and otherwise. Yet an architect would dare ask an engr to carryout structural designs for peanuts. They want you to offer competence at the fees of quacks.

If you want competence, you must be ready to pay for it. You cant run to quacks and come out here and insult an entire profession, it is not nice. There are many civil engineering consulting firms in Nigeria and they are very competent, employ their services. I too am a competent civil engr and you can reach me for your structural designs.

When it's d same old stuff they learn... No improvements, nothing

Messed up system

See yourself why wil you say only Uniben offer structural Engineering...you ask if you don't know...Civil Engineering have 3 option so you choose one you like...from Civil Engineering is water option highway option and structure option jst like electrical and Mech also have option to choose

hardywaltz:
Op the problem is the Nigerian University curriculum.

Structural engineering (which I think UniBen is the only school offering it) is different from pure Civil Engineering.
Nigerian Civil Engineers are the worst in the construction industry.
They are lazy, they lack creativity, they like to simplify a project and the truth is that they don't even have their own standard always using British Standard Code (BS) or Euro Standard code.

The Nigerian Quantity Surveyors have moved from SMM 7 which is what RICS uses to BESMM 4 which is tailored to Nigerian construction industry peculiarities.

sunnp:
See yourself why wil you say only Uniben offer structural Engineering...you ask if you don't know...Civil Engineering have 3 option so you choose one you like...from Civil Engineering is water option highway option and structure option jst like electrical and Mech also have option to choose

I said "I think"
And UniBen offers Structural Engineering as a course on Jamb form (from Yr 1) not an option under Civil Engineering.

Can we hear from Civil Engineers? Thrashing other people's occupations not the way to go though. Whatever happened to collaboration?

Oh ok

hardywaltz:
I said "I think"
And UniBen offers Structural Engineering as a course on Jamb form (from Yr 1) not an option under Civil Engineering.

U learn structural drawings from architect? Lol. Welkm to 9ja, where a Lawyer is a Civil Engineer

DerrickM:
Part of why I decided to learn structural drawings from a fellow architect not an engineer. Even the guy I assigned to my uncle's building site messed things up with his drawings after that design I stopped using him. He's been bugging me for new jobs but in his dreams forever for real...#okbye

.

1. ACCEPTING THEIR LIMITATIONS
Architects are the real consultants and their duty is to bring together the building team in other to achieve optimum desired goal in any building project. Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every espect of the building construction.

Architects are the Design Lead, I dont know of Civil Engineers that parade themselves other than what they are, all professionaly registered Engineers know this. They may collect a desing and build contract that includes all this as CONTRACTORS, but they will always subcontract to specialists.

2. POOR AND WRONG STRUCTURAL DETAILS AND CALCULATION SHEET
I've witnessed this in many cases and I don't know whether the cause is laziness or lack of the knowledge. Most of them depend on software like Orion and the rest to do the job instead of using AutoCad to exercise their ability. Will the Architect be blamed after the collapse of the building due to wrong and misleading structural details and specifications?

Except you are giving your designs to students or quacks, no Registered Civil /Structural Engineer will make such mistakes. Also, Autocad is not a structural DESIGN tool, it is merely a drafting tool. About orion, professionals know they must convert the final design drawings in Orion to dxf format, then export to autocad for proper editing of the detail drawings. Also, bending schedules and well detailed drawings are part of the design submittals.

3. LIMITATION IN STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE AND APPLICATION/ LACK OF CONFIDENCE.
Imagine when an Architect know better in terms of structural intergrity and construction methods. Most Architect design ground breaking edifice hoping that the so called Civil Engr will do justice to it, the next thing he'll hear is,"this is not achievable". Most Civil engineers are afraid to challenge themselves thereby resorting to denials and excuses not to handle a project beyond there technical/engineering capabilities. Some cannot extent a cantilever more than 900mm without applying a pillar. Any point of intersection of beams, a pillar is introduced. At the end of the day, pillar are seen everywhere. Some knows nothing about expansion joints even when it's clearly representated in the design. A whole lot of structural blunders are being commited by these Civil Engrs that one continues to wonder.

You have been dealing with quacks. Coren registered Engineers will not make the mistakes above.

4. LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THE USE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL MATERIALS (esp Steel)
Whenever you watch foreign football you'll notice the length at which they span the cantilever in their stadiums. Have you wondered why even at such span, it still carries a lot of spectators with ease. What type of material was used (even if you know), how was it constructed (most of our Civil Engrs do not know this and are not willing to know). Come to think of the little we do over here with rod, sand, stone and cement, some of these civil engineers cannot properly specify the correct mixture and proper reinforcement rather, they resort to guess work.

You have been dealing with quacks. Coren registered Engineers will not make the mistakes above.

5. NOT WELL TRAVELLED
It pains me as an Architect whenever I get into an arguement with any of the Civil engineers in regards to the structural intergrity of some conceptual designs and the ones already constructed. Most Civil Engineers hate to see designs with concept. It beats their ability and it weakens their mind. I use this medium to urge our indeginous Civil Engrs to take their time and travel outside Nigeria. Go to Dubai, France, Italy, USA etc, go see for yourselves. Things you cannot do, go and see people doing it!

You have been dealing with quacks. Coren registered Engineers will blow your mind.

NOTE: I've worked with a lot of Civil Engrs and I can say that only few of them understand what is required of them and can relate to the above argument. The reasonable ones won't argue but will try to go back and improve on themselves.

This a fallacy .

Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable, the problem is from the construction method.
FOR THE CLIENTS: Do not patronize roadside Architects, always sort the help of a qualified Architect no matter the price. Because YOU the clients thinks that you're smart, therefore ending up with regrets. Consult a qualified Civil Engr for your projects and stop cutting corners.

You are now talking.

carreport:
Nigerian civil engineers are lazy and unreliable.

Have u wondered why the Lebanese are taking over Road construction from our dunce civil engineers?

The same reason our roads do not outlive the next available rainfall.

They are masters at giving kickbacks and delivering shoddy constructions without recourse to their reputation which the Nigerian civil engineer is most mindful of.

Ok

Don't mind them that is the number 1 problem we have in construction in Naija...Arch always want to prove they are d boss and which is not.. And this is not happen in abroad like that....as you can see its very clear here now that they are Argue n sayin Civil engr is this and that

Sagewood:
Can we hear from Civil Engineers? Thrashing other people's occupations not the way to go though. Whatever happened to collaboration?

hardywaltz:
I have worked with over 200 Civil Engineers including Professors.

Take it from me the Nigerian Civil Engineers/All Engineers are lazy and theory crammers

You must be Julius Berger personified

Enough of these.!
Each one is a noble profession in its own right.

Will Nigerian professionals ever get professional for once?

D road JB dey do no be naija ppl dey do it ? D problem of our Road is Govt issue why govt can't get good Equipment like JB to each state. Then you wil now know if civil engr n not d in Naija

matify:
The same reason our roads do not outlive the next available rainfall.

They are masters at giving kickbacks and delivering shoddy constructions without recourse to their reputation which the Nigerian civil engineer is most mindful of.

Thanks for advertising your ignorance if you had tried to clarify what I really meant you wouldn't be commenting just randomly like it's some joke which it's not. It should been part of the school curriculum just like me finding out signage design is part of architecture but never taught I learnt it on the job.
Any architect who attended a university of technology like I did hardcore structures for 2years compulsorily & those who went to the polytechnic also did structures for awhile,I loved that course silly. Even Civil Engineering dept in my school had to be lend 1 of my lecturers to teach my set mates there then till they got a lecturer for it. When writing NIA exams it is part of what is being asked,the structural integrity of one's design & the understanding.
Ask engineers to teach one,story for the gods so my padi learnt it with style & raking doe ever since. If more architects could read structural drawings better,they would see the trash in the working drawings before they get to site even if they can't draw it.
Let the lawyers with other "so called construction professionals" by mouth be the civil engineers more collapsed buildings to the resume for cutting corners typical in this industry. Feeling sharp while endangering lives & property. What you should say is welcome to Naija where the ignoramuses feel they can do the job of professionals in the end;popular slogan I can do everything with mouth but "Masters of Nothing"*smh*pensively musing*

Ziggyduben:
U learn structural drawings from architect? Lol. Welkm to 9ja, where a Lawyer is a Civil Engineer

VictorRomanov:
Architects make una carry all the work ooo! Make una do all the designs. Mechanical, structural and electrical, everything.

Let civil engineers focus on highway designs and construction, geotechnics and water resources and distribution. These areas are even more lucrative.

Make architects do all the work for buildings.


A professional won't open a thread to rubbish other professionals.

Yes thats what i do these days. It is fustrating working with architects. They like cut pass anything. They would collect a project and want to make some gains from fees of mech engr, civil/structural engr, elect engr...

i prefer pure engr projects that architects have no involvement in.

markemordi:
Note: Most civil engineers don't face their own line of construction you will see a civil engineer doing a builders work...... Let civil engineers focus on highway designs and
construction, geotechnical and water resources which is their specialization....
Architect is meant to design and not to build..... Nigerians believe they have degree relating to construction they can do everything ie be an architect, builder, structural engineer at the same time......

Structural engineering is a sub discipline of civil engr even in developed countries. Its only a few universities that offer focus degree in structural engr. So highway engr, structural engr, hydraulics, water, geotechnics are all jobs a civil engr can handle.. Its later on an engr can decide to specialise.

Castosvilla,

Damn! I understand your anger. The problem is that you have been patronizing the quacks. Any engr that wants to introduce columns for cantilevers greater than 900mm is a quack or grossly inexperienced. These days, Nigerian engineers like myself have successfully designed and constructed cantilevers of 7metres. I am damn sure that you will prefer to pay those quacks peanut than pay a competent engineer for his works. Few weeks ago,i asked an architect to pay 600k for an engineering design but he refused . Recently,he called to tell me that another engineer wants to do the job for 80k. I laughed and told him to give the job to the other guy. I hope he will not lament just you after messing up the job. The problem here is most of you architects can't pay competent engineers.

I have a lot to write but I need to be in church soon.

Construction is team driven and until we realize and accept this, the industry will remain stagnant. Architects are architects - space and aesthetics; and engineers are engineers - structure and stability. We need to appreciate our diverse skills and collaborate more at design, not fragmented designing as is currently obtainable in Nigeria.

How often are design review meetings held? How about buildability workshops? While it's allowed to think outside the box, some architectural designs are just too ambitious and not buildable. Comparing structural engineers in Nigeria to those in Dubai/UK is uncalled-for; we need to work with regards to available technology.

Revit as a BIM tool is not restricted to architectural designs; ideally, all designs. (architectural, structural and building services) should be modelled on a single platform and clashes detected. The model could also be simulated using real life variables to see if it's buildable.

I'm not an architect, neither am I an engineer. I am the guy who coordinates you, the one who approves your work and payments, the one you report to

You just made the best comment, one thing I have realized is people see a lot of people with Civil Engineering certificate as structural engineer who can design and build, not minding to find out the area of specialization, if you give a building design to someone who specializes in highway, public health/water or environmental management what do you expect. Also, when an architect negotiate structural design fee without consulting a competent structural engineer what do you expect, I have seen cases where an architect who collected a standard architectural fee for design of a building in Lekki negotiated N40,000 for structural design and detailing of a twin duplex with Raft foundation and he actually got someone to do it for him and the so called engineer submitted only 3No. A4 size tracing paper for the whole job.
I have never seen a job given to a competent civil / structural engineer failed, every professions has quacks doctors, lawyers even draftmen calling themselves architects.
If you pay the right price you will surely get the best for you money.

einsteino:
The hard truth is an architect draws pretty pictures that he has no idea how to make stand. There is no limitation to what an architect can model. One can model a completely suspended building in revit, archicad.. Can cantilever 40 metre span.. Can have an overhang of 400 sq metre supported by just a brick wall.. It is all just pictures and models.. The civil engr tells him what is obtainable within the budget and the prevailing technical conditions in the country. The way the industry works, engrs call architects dreamers and architects call engrs killjoys.


You dont hve to feel bitter about it. It is one thing to dream, it is another to make it work. It is not too late to go get a second degree in civil engineering so you can have all the competent technical know how you require to make your projects be the way you wish.
moreso nigeria isnt dubai, it is the truth. Such pojects require a lot of money for an engr to be able to explore alot of options and assmeble a large team. Here it is hard to even specialise, i have done many projects that budgetary constraints made me negotiate modifications with the architect. Heck it is almost mission impossible to produce grade 40 concrete in Nigeria which is the minimum grade of concrete in eurocode. The yield strength of rebars in nigeria mkts can not be vouched for, some are as low as 300N/mm for socalled high yield meanwhile it ought to be 460 minimum. What are engrs to do? The client doesnt want to spend money on his own project, the engr isnt paid something that even encourages thinking outside the box.

Yes there are incompetent engrs. I have met a number of them, but the truth is alot of folks who parade themselves as civil engrs are not, even Architects also parade themselves as engrs and i too have met a good number of incompetent architects. I work as a consultant/design structural engr and i know the sacrifices and efforts it takes to be a competent engr. Civil engineering is very tasking, mentally and otherwise. Yet an architect would dare ask an engr to carryout structural designs for peanuts. They want you to offer competence at the fees of quacks.

If you want competence, you must be ready to pay for it. You shy away from employing the service of a competent engr because you want to cut cost, only to run to quacks and come out here and insult an entire profession based on your experience with the quacks, it is not nice a thing to do at all. If i wrote an epitsle detailing the level of incompetence of some architects i have worked with, generalising and ridiculing your entire profession, how would you feel? There are many civil engineering consulting firms in Nigeria and they are very competent, employ their services. Most of the foreign construction firms employ their services, I dont think you know better than them. I too am a competent civil engr and you can reach me for your structural designs. I have expertise in steel and reinforced concrete structures and software proficiency in STAAD PRO, Tekla Structures, Revit Structures, Robot Structural Analysis, SAP 2000, Orion and Auto Cad.

Oh that reminds me, you made mention of detailing in Orion being bad. Oh yeah every software has its limitations but it doesnt make one incompetent to employ them. Orion slab detailing is a disaster, its foundation details isnt a sight to behold either. I only endorse its beam detail but that needs some tweaking too. Personally draughting using Autocad is still the best but it is a painstaking process and involves too many repetitive and time wasting actions. To avoid this, Cads RC and revit structure can be employed if one can survive the learning curve. To engrs please make sure you understand the software you use perfectly well. Orion doesnt span slabs purely in one way, doesnt matter if u change the slab type.. Also be sure to introduce hinges before analysis because its details doesnt cater for fixity. Its foundation footing sizing is also too conservative. Personally, good old manual structural designs and calculation is a favourite and is always a good backbone, however automating the process makes it speedy.

Lastly engrs please a software is a garbage in, garbage out tool. You cat get what you didnt give. It is only to automate what you already know not what you dont. An engr reads more on graduation more than he did in all his years in Uni combined, keep developing yourselves. Hopefuly we would take our profession back from quacks someday.

Hmmmm, I didn't wanna say anything, but if some notions aren't corrected, some people might just go about passing on ignorance to others.

First of, every profession has quacks and mediocres and people who are just lazy thinkers. So calling some engineers that isn't a big deal to me. However, it shows the kind of architect you are if all the engineers you meet/know are quacks. Either you wanna use them like elephants and pay them like ants or....

On the issue of architects being the prime consultants. Its suggests inexperience to say that the architect is always the head of the team. Core engineering projects do not have architects as leads eg a refinery project, bridge construction, and even some buildings where aesthetics is of low significance compared to functionality.

You mentioned all structural engineers find it easy to use Orion and not Autocad. Both are two different things, one is for a tool for analysis and design, the other is a tool engineers use for detailing. After using orion/stadpro/etabs/RC cad/sap... we use autocad to present that information so that you simpletons can understand it a bit.

The most controversial point is that engineers are lazy... I am not an architect, I am a Civil Engineer with varied experience and this is what I have found: architects are creative artists! you people just draw, there are no limitations to what you can draw, 8m cantilever, a building as a circle with just one column as support, anything the architects mind can conceive without recourse to reality can be presented as a drawing. The engineer however is responsible for turning that your drawing into a reality. He uses available material, technology and know how to attempt to create that drawing into an actual object. He designs with known strength of materials locally, considers what is achievable based on a reasonable budget, thinks of the people that would actually do the work in the selection of his design parameters and then based on all these tells you what is achievable. He is not lazy at all. It is an insult to call an engineer lazy because he has told the architect what he has drawn is not practical.
The best among the architect's liaise with their structural engineers when they have an idea for a building. (just so they don't go too far with their thoughts and find out its not workable based on realities on the site or budget or practicality or even available technology)

While I don't intend to bash the architects, you should understand the architect's place in a building construction project. Why is the architect rarely invited if there is a building collapse It gives an idea of who has the real importance on a construction job and I ain't referring to duplexes or 3 suspended floor buildings.

Bottomline to the OP, upgrade the people you have been working with, deep calls unto the deep.

God bless you jare...like one of my Oga in Alausa he gave me commacial building to design I told him as my oga to bring 200k he said for what that he collet d design for 80k I say God forbid later he gave it to one man he said d man did it for 30k so he ask me to go and help him collect the design frm d man which I do to to my suprise no Calculation sheet and I ask d man what abt d Calulation sheet he said he neva ready make I come back and I laugh jst imagine wetin d man se to drawn d desgin ? And dis my oga is register Arch ooo

Avalon316:
Castosvilla,

Damn! I understand your anger. The problem is that you have been patronizing the quacks. Any engr that wants to introduce columns for cantilevers greater than 900mm is a quack or grossly inexperienced. These days, Nigerian engineers like myself have successfully designed and constructed cantilevers of 7metres. I am damn sure that you will prefer to pay those quacks peanut than pay a competent engineer for his works. Few weeks ago,i asked an architect to pay 600k for an engineering design but he refused . Recently,he called to tell me that another engineer wants to do the job for 80k. I laughed and told him to give the job to the other guy. I hope he will not lament just you after messing up the job. The problem here is most of you architects can't pay competent engineers.

I have a lot to write but I need to be in church soon.

I totally agree with you and I'm a Building services Engineer (more commonlyknown as MEP or M&E Engr).

The moment we run pipes within the slabs they say we are weakening the structural integrity of their slab.

If we complain about the splitting in two halves the duct (which was provided by the architect) by a beam, they say its a continuous beam. Whenever, we reply pointing out the fact that in the drawing distributed by the architect to the team; next thing "structural integrity".

They use top and buttom bars as well as tight mesh to crush pipes both Electrical and Plumbing maybe due to paranoia or gross incompetence. Who knows?

I will appeal to Civil/Structural Engineers to realise that they need to improve their designing and spend more time on calculations as well as model simulation. With these, overall cost of reinforcement would reduce, reduction of unnecessary columns, etc

CASTOSVILLA:
This is to counter this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3040875/very-important-mistakes-architects-make.
1. ACCEPTING THEIR LIMITATIONS
Architects are the real consultants and their duty is to bring together the building team in other to achieve optimum desired goal in any building project. Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every espect of the building construction.

2. POOR AND WRONG STRUCTURAL DETAILS AND CALCULATION SHEET
I've witnessed this in many cases and I don't know whether the cause is laziness or lack of the knowledge. Most of them depend on software like Orion and the rest to do the job instead of using AutoCad to exercise their ability. Will the Architect be blamed after the collapse of the building due to wrong and misleading structural details and specifications?
3. LIMITATION IN STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE AND APPLICATION/ LACK OF CONFIDENCE.
Imagine when an Architect know better in terms of structural intergrity and construction methods. Most Architect design ground breaking edifice hoping that the so called Civil Engr will do justice to it, the next thing he'll hear is,"this is not achievable". Most Civil engineers are afraid to challenge themselves thereby resorting to denials and excuses not to handle a project beyond there technical/engineering capabilities. Some cannot extent a cantilever more than 900mm without applying a pillar. Any point of intersection of beams, a pillar is introduced. At the end of the day, pillar are seen everywhere. Some knows nothing about expansion joints even when it's clearly representated in the design. A whole lot of structural blunders are being commited by these Civil Engrs that one continues to wonder.
4. LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THE USE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL MATERIALS (esp Steel)
Whenever you watch foreign football you'll notice the length at which they span the cantilever in their stadiums. Have you wondered why even at such span, it still carries a lot of spectators with ease. What type of material was used (even if you know), how was it constructed (most of our Civil Engrs do not know this and are not willing to know). Come to think of the little we do over here with rod, sand, stone and cement, some of these civil engineers cannot properly specify the correct mixture and proper reinforcement rather, they resort to guess work.
5. NOT WELL TRAVELLED
It pains me as an Architect whenever I get into an arguement with any of the Civil engineers in regards to the structural intergrity of some conceptual designs and the ones already constructed. Most Civil Engineers hate to see designs with concept. It beats their ability and it weakens their mind. I use this medium to urge our indeginous Civil Engrs to take their time and travel outside Nigeria. Go to Dubai, France, Italy, USA etc, go see for yourselves. Things you cannot do, go and see people doing it!

NOTE: I've worked with a lot of Civil Engrs and I can say that only few of them understand what is required of them and can relate to the above argument. The reasonable ones won't argue but will try to go back and improve on themselves.
Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable, the problem is from the construction method.
FOR THE CLIENTS: Do not patronize roadside Architects, always sort the help of a qualified Architect no matter the price. Because YOU the clients thinks that you're smart, therefore ending up with regrets. Consult a qualified Civil Engr for your projects and stop cutting corners.