DerrickM:
Part of why I decided to learn structural drawings from a fellow architect not an engineer. Even the guy I assigned to my uncle's building site messed things up with his drawings after that design I stopped using him. He's been bugging me for new jobs but in his dreams forever for real...#okbye

pls ooo bro we fix collins,wall screeding interior and exterior painting(ATOOLAD GLOBAL SERVICE)

Lol*lmao*hehehe*Dude,it isn't about quacks what about the educated & half-baked ones,nice try at being diplomatically defensive.
When I had my private gigs aside work to do I gave him the structural drawings for projects to do for me worth N120k+. The one I told him to supervise while I was on service for my uncle a regular client,he wasted steel reinforcements & walked off the site(what a professional indeed). If not that another relative on site was knowledgeable about structures. I think twice before I give him my drawings again or call him for supervision. If Civil Engineers have been muscling in on archy design for so long let them know the "karma" of architects knowing their job is coming for their gigs as well.

Avalon316:
Castosvilla,

Damn! I understand your anger. The problem is that you have been patronizing the quacks. Any engr that wants to introduce columns for cantilevers greater than 900mm is a quack or grossly inexperienced. These days, Nigerian engineers like myself have successfully designed and constructed cantilevers of 7metres. I am damn sure that you will prefer to pay those quacks peanut than pay a competent engineer for his works. Few weeks ago,i asked an architect to pay 600k for an engineering design but he refused . Recently,he called to tell me that another engineer wants to do the job for 80k. I laughed and told him to give the job to the other guy. I hope he will not lament just you after messing up the job. The problem here is most of you architects can't pay competent engineers.

I have a lot to write but I need to be in church soon.

Nutase:
Boring

let me brighten your day

DerrickM:
Part of why I decided to learn structural drawings from a fellow architect not an engineer. Even the guy I assigned to my uncle's building site messed things up with his drawings after that design I stopped using him. He's been bugging me for new jobs but in his dreams forever for real...#okbye

What do you mean by learn structural drawings from a fellow architect?

hardywaltz:

Structural engineering (which I think UniBen is the only school offering it) is different from pure Civil Engineering.
.

Wake up and stop thinking.
Also, what do you mean by pure Civil Engineering

I think its high time people start differentiating between a professional builder with high knowledge in structural detailing and designs from a civil engineer. Out of 10 civil engineers,9 always have that interest in road, bridge and other big engineering project,thereby making them acquire more knowledge about it to the the detriment of building construction. The onus lie on people to know the right professional to handle their project

karleone:


Wake up and stop thinking.
Also, what do you mean by pure Civil Engineering

I believe I had answered this question.
UniBen offers Structural Engineering as a course on Jamb form (From Yr 1) not an option under Civil Engineering like most other schools.

Read through the thread I explained further.

karleone:


What do you mean by learn structural drawings from a fellow architect?

hardywaltz:

I believe I had answered this question.
UniBen offers Structural Engineering as a course on Jamb form (From Yr 1) not an option under Civil Engineering like most other schools.

Broda, there's nothing like Structural Engineering as a different course of study from Civil Engineering in UniBen. Except, it's a new course that sprang up in the last 2 years (which I believe is not).
Note: Civil and Structural Engineering are like siamese twins that can't be divided. Structural Engineering is a branch (Option) of Civil Engrg that deals with design and analysis of structural members - how the react to loads et al. Whereas Civil Engineering is a branch of Engineering that focuses on the infrastructure of the world which include Buildings, Highway, Bridges, Water works - Sewers, Dams, Irrigation Canals, River Navigation, Shipping Canals; Power Plants, Transmission Towers/Lines, Railroads, Tunnels, Traffic Control, Mass Transit, Airport Runways, Terminals, Industrial Plant Buildings, Skyscrapers, etc.

Remember, you cannot separate the two.

As for our professional OP, there are things an engineer look out for before he structurally designs any architectural drawing:-
1) Safety (Durability)
2) Cost
3) Aesthetics (Here's where he considers the beautiful work the Architect has done)

If a qualified Civil/Structural Engr terms a drawing not achievable after he must have done his research, believe me, it is not. There's no need coming to Nairaland to cry over spilled milk.

good on

DerrickM:
Read through the thread I explained further.

You wrote lots of lines and still made no sense. Bro,you can't learn medicine from a pilot. I know anything goes in Nigeria but it shouldn't be. Stop clowning yourself on a public forum.

Lmao*lol*hehehe*Wow,thanks a lot coming from a person who has no sense of how to converse on a public forum. Where those the manners who were taught on how to behave on a forum such as this to come here & be insulting.
I said my piece you & don't have to like it. If you had something better to say or contribute then spit it out not come @me with your totally senseless response. What in the world makes you think architects shouldn't know about structures. Civil Engineers that make building design their speciality with time can get good with design even Builders if they work more with architects. So what's your headache?!!Spewing thrash. Even those I had issues with their comments I didn't even talk in this tone to them. Get a life & take your own advice...

Avalon316:


You wrote lots of lines and still made no sense. Bro,you can't learn medicine from a pilot. I know anything goes in Nigeria but it shouldn't be. Stop clowning yourself on a public forum.

Quality Stone Coated roofing tiles available now... Call/Whatsapp: Olawale on 08160320327 now for details and enquiries on price and hw 2 deliver 2 ur site... Check my Signature

einsteino:
The hard truth is an architect draws pretty pictures that he has no idea how to make stand. There is no limitation to what an architect can model. One can model a completely suspended building in revit, archicad.. Can cantilever 40 metre span.. Can have an overhang of 400 sq metre supported by just a brick wall.. It is all just pictures and models.. The civil engr tells him what is obtainable within the budget and the prevailing technical conditions in the country. The way the industry works, engrs call architects dreamers and architects call engrs killjoys.

You dont hve to feel bitter about it. It is one thing to dream, it is another to make it work. It is not too late to go get a second degree in civil engineering so you can have all the competent technical know how you require to make your projects be the way you wish.

moreso nigeria isnt dubai, it is the truth. Such pojects require a lot of money for an engr to be able to explore alot of options and assemble a large competent team. Here it is hard for a civil Engr to even specialise unlike in developed nations. I have carried out many projects that budgetary constraints made me negotiate modifications with the architect. Heck it is almost mission impossible to produce grade 40 concrete in Nigeria which is the minimum grade of concrete in eurocode. The yield strength of rebars in nigeria mkts can not be vouched for, some are as low as 300N/mm for socalled high yield meanwhile it ought to be 460 minimum. Clients refuse to carry out proper geotechnical investigation that would educate the engr on the soil bearing capacity the structure would sit on. What are engrs to do? These factors greatly inhibit our engineering capacity. Even when u profer smart solutions that would save aesthetics, the same client wouldnt be able to afford it. The client doesnt want to spend money on his own project, the engr isnt paid something that even encourages thinking outside the box but the architect is still drawing beautiful dreamland pictures without taking into cognisance the difficulties and risk it would pose in a nation like ours.

Yes there are incompetent engrs and i agree many of them hide their incompetence by avoiding projects that require the most basic ingenious solutions. I have met a number of them, but the truth is alot of folks who parade themselves as civil engrs are not, even Architects also parade themselves as engrs and i have met a good number of incompetent architects too. I work as a consultant/design structural engr and i know the sacrifices and efforts it takes to be a competent engr. Civil engineering is very tasking, intellectually and otherwise. Yet an architect would dare ask an engr to carryout structural designs for peanuts. They want you to offer competence at the fees of quacks.

If you want competence, you must be ready to pay for it. You shy away from employing the service of a competent engr because you want to cut cost, only to run to quacks and come out here and insult an entire profession based on your experience with the quacks, it is not nice a thing to do at all. If i wrote an epitsle detailing the level of incompetence of some architects i have worked with, generalising and ridiculing your entire profession, how would you feel? There are many civil engineering consulting firms in Nigeria and they are very competent, employ their services. Most of the foreign construction firms employ the services of indigenous engineering consulting firms, I dont think you know better than them. I too am a competent civil engr and you can reach me for your structural designs. I have expertise in steel and reinforced concrete structures and software proficiency in STAAD PRO, Tekla Structures, Revit Structures, Robot Structural Analysis, SAP 2000, Orion and Auto Cad.

Oh that reminds me, you made mention of detailing in Orion being bad. Oh yeah every software has its limitations but it doesnt make one incompetent to employ them. Orion slab detailing is a disaster, its foundation details isnt a sight to behold either. I only endorse its beam detail but that needs some tweaking too. Personally draughting using Autocad is still the best due time the flexibility it avails its user but it is a painstaking process and involves too many repetitive and time wasting actions. To avoid this, Cads RC and revit structure can be employed if one can survive the learning curve. To engrs please make sure you understand the software you use perfectly well. Orion doesnt span slabs purely in one way, doesnt matter if u change the slab type.. Also be sure to introduce hinges before analysis because its details doesnt cater for fixity. Its foundation footing sizing is also too conservative. Personally, good old manual structural designs and calculation is a favourite and is always a good backbone, however automating the process makes it speedy.

Lastly engrs please a software is a garbage in, garbage out tool. You can't get what you didnt give. It is only to automate what you already know not what you dont. An engr reads more on graduation than he did in all his years in Uni combined, keep developing yourselves. Hopefuly we would take our profession back from the quacks someday.

Uv said it all. Not one word more than neccesary

DerrickM:
Lol*lmao*hehehe*Dude,it isn't about quacks what about the educated & half-baked ones,nice try at being diplomatically defensive.
When I had my private gigs aside work to do I gave him the structural drawings for projects to do for me worth N120k+. The one I told him to supervise while I was on service for my uncle a regular client,he wasted steel reinforcements & walked off the site(what a professional indeed). If not that another relative on site was knowledgeable about structures. I think twice before I give him my drawings again or call him for supervision. If Civil Engineers have been muscling in on archy design for so long let them know the "karma" of architects knowing their job is coming for their gigs as well.

He wasted steel? How did you know he wasted steel(reinforcement)? Did you do your structural analysis to ascertain that he provided excessive reinforcement? Or you guessed because in your freaky mind you think he is quack or incompetent?

Nigerian engineers need to be more open minded. I have seen beautiful designs redesigned into mundane buildings just because the architect could not find an engineer willing to push boundaries.

The masterpieces around the world were worked on by engineers who didn't say the architectural designs were unrealistic. They (the engineers) took on the challenge and made a mark.

If you think I'm too harsh on our engineers please tell me of any cable suspended bridge (or automated bridge) in this country. Mention just one. Some countries have lost count of such designs by their engineers but here it is still a big deal to us.. We all know that bridge construction is the preserve of civil/structural engineers. Have our engineers built any breathtaking bridge? You should have seen my disappointment when the lekki ikoyi link bridge was unveiled and I saw big columns carrying it from the lagoon bed. The cables were just for show. Where is the innovation?

CASTOSVILLA:
This is to counter this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3040875/very-important-mistakes-architects-make.
1. ACCEPTING THEIR LIMITATIONS
Architects are the real consultants and their duty is to bring together the building team in other to achieve optimum desired goal in any building project. Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every espect of the building construction.

2. POOR AND WRONG STRUCTURAL DETAILS AND CALCULATION SHEET
I've witnessed this in many cases and I don't know whether the cause is laziness or lack of the knowledge. Most of them depend on software like Orion and the rest to do the job instead of using AutoCad to exercise their ability. Will the Architect be blamed after the collapse of the building due to wrong and misleading structural details and specifications?
3. LIMITATION IN STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE AND APPLICATION/ LACK OF CONFIDENCE.
Imagine when an Architect know better in terms of structural intergrity and construction methods. Most Architect design ground breaking edifice hoping that the so called Civil Engr will do justice to it, the next thing he'll hear is,"this is not achievable". Most Civil engineers are afraid to challenge themselves thereby resorting to denials and excuses not to handle a project beyond there technical/engineering capabilities. Some cannot extent a cantilever more than 900mm without applying a pillar. Any point of intersection of beams, a pillar is introduced. At the end of the day, pillar are seen everywhere. Some knows nothing about expansion joints even when it's clearly representated in the design. A whole lot of structural blunders are being commited by these Civil Engrs that one continues to wonder.
4. LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THE USE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL MATERIALS (esp Steel)
Whenever you watch foreign football you'll notice the length at which they span the cantilever in their stadiums. Have you wondered why even at such span, it still carries a lot of spectators with ease. What type of material was used (even if you know), how was it constructed (most of our Civil Engrs do not know this and are not willing to know). Come to think of the little we do over here with rod, sand, stone and cement, some of these civil engineers cannot properly specify the correct mixture and proper reinforcement rather, they resort to guess work.
5. NOT WELL TRAVELLED
It pains me as an Architect whenever I get into an arguement with any of the Civil engineers in regards to the structural intergrity of some conceptual designs and the ones already constructed. Most Civil Engineers hate to see designs with concept. It beats their ability and it weakens their mind. I use this medium to urge our indeginous Civil Engrs to take their time and travel outside Nigeria. Go to Dubai, France, Italy, USA etc, go see for yourselves. Things you cannot do, go and see people doing it!

NOTE: I've worked with a lot of Civil Engrs and I can say that only few of them understand what is required of them and can relate to the above argument. The reasonable ones won't argue but will try to go back and improve on themselves.
Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable, the problem is from the construction method.
FOR THE CLIENTS: Do not patronize roadside Architects, always sort the help of a qualified Architect no matter the price. Because YOU the clients thinks that you're smart, therefore ending up with regrets. Consult a qualified Civil Engr for your projects and stop cutting corners.

I can so relate with this. I provide MEP services so I'm always in contact with these guys.

Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every aspect of the building construction.

This line got me cracking, but I believe it's due to the economic crises. Nevertheless, that shouldn't be a reason for one profession to take up the job of another.

Also when would Architects and other stakeholders move to Revit / BIM, it makes the work of MEP engineers easier. We can seamlessly synchronize our work and resolve possible problems before going to site.

Thanks for advertising your ignorance if you had tried to clarify what I really meant you wouldn't be commenting just randomly like it's some joke which it's not. What I meant was dat pple should learn from d right source b4 dey open their mouth to tell us dey learnt.

DerrickM:
Thanks for advertising your ignorance if you had tried to clarify what I really meant you wouldn't be commenting just randomly like it's some joke which it's not. It should been part of the school curriculum just like me finding out signage design is part of architecture but never taught I learnt it on the job.
Any architect who attended a university of technology like I did hardcore structures for 2years compulsorily & those who went to the polytechnic also did structures for awhile,I loved that course silly. Even Civil Engineering dept in my school had to be lend 1 of my lecturers to teach my set mates there then till they got a lecturer for it. When writing NIA exams it is part of what is being asked,the structural integrity of one's design & the understanding.
Ask engineers to teach one,story for the gods so my padi learnt it with style & raking doe ever since. If more architects could read structural drawings better,they would see the trash in the working drawings before they get to site even if they can't draw it.
Let the lawyers with other "so called construction professionals" by mouth be the civil engineers more collapsed buildings to the resume for cutting corners typical in this industry. Feeling sharp while endangering lives & property. What you should say is welcome to Naija where the ignoramuses feel they can do the job of professionals in the end;popular slogan I can do everything with mouth but "Masters of Nothing"*smh*pensively musing*

Come back for more I see*sighs*hahaha*lol*Amazing questions from you seriously. He's the structural engineer was he paid to that & otherwise what's the point of him being involved. What a minute how come you don't know that?!! About my mind,it has always been freaky,sohn(*stale gist*thought you got the memo?!!*yawns*) unlike your delusional mind that is being defensive about he has no idea of about.

Avalon316:


He wasted steel? How did you know he wasted steel(reinforcement)? Did you do your structural analysis to ascertain that he provided excessive reinforcement? Or you guessed because in your freaky mind you think he is quack or incompetent?

Tsk*Tsk*Tsk*Copy and paste from my own comment how not so original*lmao*lwkmd*lol*Gotta hurt don't it?!! From your reply,engineers are the only right source okay*stretches arms*yawns*Thanks for the sermon.

Ziggyduben:
Thanks for advertising your ignorance if you had tried to clarify what I really meant you wouldn't be commenting just randomly like it's some joke which it's not. What I meant was dat pple should learn from d right source b4 dey open their mouth to tell us dey learnt.

AfroKnight:
Nigerian engineers need to be more open minded. I have seen beautiful designs redesigned into mundane buildings just because the architect could not find an engineer willing to push boundaries.

The masterpieces around the world were worked on by engineers who didn't say the architectural designs were unrealistic. They (the engineers) took on the challenge and made a mark.

If you think I'm too harsh on our engineers please tell me of any cable suspended bridge (or automated bridge) in this country. Mention just one. Some countries have lost count of such designs by their engineers but here it is still a big deal to us.. We all know that bridge construction is the preserve of civil/structural engineers. Have our engineers built any breathtaking bridge? You should have seen my disappointment when the lekki ikoyi link bridge was unveiled and I saw big columns carrying it from the lagoon bed. The cables were just for show. Where is the innovation?

I'm very sure you have seen the likes of 4 point hotel( Sheraton) , intercontinental hotel,nestoil etc. These structures were done by young engineers in their twenties. I have been involved in more than 10 high-rise structures in Lagos. I know we have a lot to do but we are trying.

These architects want to dictate to you the member sizes to use and restrict you in so many ways. Most times,they even tell you what the foundation should be. Lol.

martineverest:
....When both of them neglect/neglected the service of structural engineers to cut cost..

Civil engineers, especially, want to be all-in-one: Architect, civil engineer, structural engineer etc..
Jack of trades

.

You are not far from the truth,the civil engineer sees himself as a God.He simply forgot that there is someone called structural engineer ,who is saddled with the responsibilities of doing a structural design.Until we go back to the draw board and correct this anomalies then we will continue to experience collapse of building.For God sake,a civil engineer should not make modifications to my design without my consent and he shouldn't try to tell me it is not possible ,I hate that word.

highskies:
I totally agree with you and I'm a Building services Engineer (more commonlyknown as MEP or M&E Engr).

The moment we run pipes within the slabs they say we are weakening the structural integrity of their slab.

If we complain about the splitting in two halves the duct (which was provided by the architect) by a beam, they say its a continuous beam. Whenever, we reply pointing out the fact that in the drawing distributed by the architect to the team; next thing "structural integrity".

They use top and buttom bars as well as tight mesh to crush pipes both Electrical and Plumbing maybe due to paranoia or gross incompetence. Who knows?

I will appeal to Civil/Structural Engineers to realise that they need to improve their designing and spend more time on calculations as well as model simulation. With these, overall cost of reinforcement would reduce, reduction of unnecessary columns, etc

Engineers to engineers.... , fire go.

Highly emotional thread. For every counterfeit there is an original. So it is for every profession. Stop belittling an integral part of the construction team.
#ProudlyaCivilEngineer

The writer is obviously an architect blaming civil engineer for incompetence but there's more to these fact imagine these scenario which is very common In the industry architect is paid 100k to design a 1 or 2 storey building he looks for an engineer to either prepare or or seal structural drawings for 5k..... You get the value of what you pay for.

Honestly, if an architect understands his or her profession vividly, there wouldn't be any doubt how important a Civil Engineer is to the building industry. First, start with education, most architectural curriculum only summaries structure to the students. Civil Engineering not only does comprehensive learning of structure but are trained to do Civil Projects for entire human's infrastructurall need. Like transportation, fluid mechanics, foundation, aero dynamics , even medical structure too, just to mention a few. And most importantly, Engineering is based on three core ideas : economic design, safety and functionality. All this three cores must be met to have a viable design. Hence, beautiful concept without economic value is useless, concept without functionality is useless and concepts that do not take into consideration limitations of the country and availability of standard design materials and elements are not safe, therefore, are also useless. I need not defend Civil Engineers, next time you want to talk about us, compare our training curiculums first.

einsteino:
The hard truth is an architect draws pretty pictures that he has no idea how to make stand. There is no limitation to what an architect can model. One can model a completely suspended building in revit, archicad.. Can cantilever 40 metre span.. Can have an overhang of 400 sq metre supported by just a brick wall.. It is all just pictures and models.. The civil engr tells him what is obtainable within the budget and the prevailing technical conditions in the country. The way the industry works, engrs call architects dreamers and architects call engrs killjoys.

You dont hve to feel bitter about it. It is one thing to dream, it is another to make it work. It is not too late to go get a second degree in civil engineering so you can have all the competent technical know how you require to make your projects be the way you wish.

moreso nigeria isnt dubai, it is the truth. Such pojects require a lot of money for an engr to be able to explore alot of options and assemble a large competent team. Here it is hard for a civil Engr to even specialise unlike in developed nations. I have carried out many projects that budgetary constraints made me negotiate modifications with the architect. Heck it is almost mission impossible to produce grade 40 concrete in Nigeria which is the minimum grade of concrete in eurocode. The yield strength of rebars in nigeria mkts can not be vouched for, some are as low as 300N/mm for socalled high yield meanwhile it ought to be 460 minimum. Clients refuse to carry out proper geotechnical investigation that would educate the engr on the soil bearing capacity the structure would sit on. What are engrs to do? These factors greatly inhibit our engineering capacity. Even when u profer smart solutions that would save aesthetics, the same client wouldnt be able to afford it. The client doesnt want to spend money on his own project, the engr isnt paid something that even encourages thinking outside the box but the architect is still drawing beautiful dreamland pictures without taking into cognisance the difficulties and risk it would pose in a nation like ours.

Yes there are incompetent engrs and i agree many of them hide their incompetence by avoiding projects that require the most basic ingenious solutions. I have met a number of them, but the truth is alot of folks who parade themselves as civil engrs are not, even Architects also parade themselves as engrs and i have met a good number of incompetent architects too. I work as a consultant/design structural engr and i know the sacrifices and efforts it takes to be a competent engr. Civil engineering is very tasking, intellectually and otherwise. Yet an architect would dare ask an engr to carryout structural designs for peanuts. They want you to offer competence at the fees of quacks.

If you want competence, you must be ready to pay for it. You shy away from employing the service of a competent engr because you want to cut cost, only to run to quacks and come out here and insult an entire profession based on your experience with the quacks, it is not nice a thing to do at all. If i wrote an epitsle detailing the level of incompetence of some architects i have worked with, generalising and ridiculing your entire profession, how would you feel? There are many civil engineering consulting firms in Nigeria and they are very competent, employ their services. Most of the foreign construction firms employ the services of indigenous engineering consulting firms, I dont think you know better than them. I too am a competent civil engr and you can reach me for your structural designs. I have expertise in steel and reinforced concrete structures and software proficiency in STAAD PRO, Tekla Structures, Revit Structures, Robot Structural Analysis, SAP 2000, Orion and Auto Cad.

Oh that reminds me, you made mention of detailing in Orion being bad. Oh yeah every software has its limitations but it doesnt make one incompetent to employ them. Orion slab detailing is a disaster, its foundation details isnt a sight to behold either. I only endorse its beam detail but that needs some tweaking too. Personally draughting using Autocad is still the best due time the flexibility it avails its user but it is a painstaking process and involves too many repetitive and time wasting actions. To avoid this, Cads RC and revit structure can be employed if one can survive the learning curve. To engrs please make sure you understand the software you use perfectly well. Orion doesnt span slabs purely in one way, doesnt matter if u change the slab type.. Also be sure to introduce hinges before analysis because its details doesnt cater for fixity. Its foundation footing sizing is also too conservative. Personally, good old manual structural designs and calculation is a favourite and is always a good backbone, however automating the process makes it speedy.

Lastly engrs please a software is a garbage in, garbage out tool. You can't get what you didnt give. It is only to automate what you already know not what you dont. An engr reads more on graduation than he did in all his years in Uni combined, keep developing yourselves. Hopefuly we would take our profession back from the quacks someday.

Honestly, if an architect understands his or her profession vividly, there wouldn't be any doubt how important a Civil Engineer is to the building industry. First, start with education, most architectural curriculum only summaries structure to the students. Civil Engineering not only does comprehensive learning of structure but are trained to do Civil Projects for entire human's infrastructurall need. Like transportation, fluid mechanics, foundation, aero dynamics , even medical structure too, just to mention a few. And most importantly, Engineering is based on three core ideas : economic design, safety and functionality. All this three cores must be met to have a viable design. Hence, beautiful concept without economic value is useless, concept without functionality is useless and concepts that do not take into consideration limitations of the country and availability of standard design materials and elements are not safe, therefore, are also useless. I need not defend Civil Engineers, next time you want to talk about us, compare our training curiculums first.
einsteino:

Honestly, if an architect understands his or her profession vividly, there wouldn't be any doubt how important a Civil Engineer is to the building industry. First, start with education, most architectural curriculum only summaries structure to the students. Civil Engineering not only does comprehensive learning of structure but are trained to do Civil Projects for entire human's infrastructurall need. Like transportation, fluid mechanics, foundation, aero dynamics , even medical structure too, just to mention a few. And most importantly, Engineering is based on three core ideas : economic design, safety and functionality. All this three cores must be met to have a viable design. Hence, beautiful concept without economic value is useless, concept without functionality is useless and concepts that do not take into consideration limitations of the country and availability of standard design materials and elements are not safe, therefore, are also useless. I need not defend Civil Engineers, next time you want to talk about us, compare our training curiculums first.

alpontif:
Hello ,

Do you know there are less than 40,000 Registered Engineers in Nigeria ? This includes Civil, Electrical, mechanical etc.

Kindly ruminate on that.

The OP is definitely a frustrated Architect who could not cimpete favourably in this tight construction industry. Blasphemy another alied profession in same industry shows a serious lack of professional ethics. I am sure he is neither a registered member of ARCON or any professional body because there is a code of ethics by COREN which i know it teaches respect for other professional colleagues, i also believe that such code would be available for other professional body of which thos giy belomgs to none.

Mznaett

Boss. Weldone. Please share your idea. Cantilever of 7m,.....nice! Steel or R.C. Or composite? Let's share ideas. Better than throw blames. I will state again. OP contact a COREN registered engineer next time you are working on a project. Then I don't know what the ethics of your profession are, there are better ways of making such claims. Report to the NSE and write to COREN. Abeg nor come dey embarrass engineers here. Cheers

Avalon316:
Castosvilla,

Damn! I understand your anger. The problem is that you have been patronizing the quacks. Any engr that wants to introduce columns for cantilevers greater than 900mm is a quack or grossly inexperienced. These days, Nigerian engineers like myself have successfully designed and constructed cantilevers of 7metres. I am damn sure that you will prefer to pay those quacks peanut than pay a competent engineer for his works. Few weeks ago,i asked an architect to pay 600k for an engineering design but he refused . Recently,he called to tell me that another engineer wants to do the job for 80k. I laughed and told him to give the job to the other guy. I hope he will not lament just you after messing up the job. The problem here is most of you architects can't pay competent engineers.

I have a lot to write but I need to be in church soon.

Bros,yet if you read from this thread from beginning you understand it's a counter-thread to what an engineer posted here on Nairaland. So all what you have posted here about blasphemy & whot not is also applicable to engineer who came for architects in the 1st place. If you want to judge this matter do it fairly not so biased,sir. He highlighted the issues he has encountered & you have taken so personal,haba.

Aventures:
The OP is definitely a frustrated Architect who could not cimpete favourably in this tight construction industry. Blasphemy another alied profession in same industry shows a serious lack of professional ethics. I am sure he is neither a registered member of ARCON or any professional body because there is a code of ethics by COREN which i know it teaches respect for other professional colleagues, i also believe that such code would be available for other professional body of which thos giy belomgs to none.