₦airaland Forum

4kings:
How can predestination be, without people being tagged?, for god sake Paul said he was chosen from his mother's womb, and remember Jeremiah.

If according to the Bible god wishes that all human should receive salvation, why didn't he predestine a phrophet or something to come and give salvation, rather the antichrist was spoken of to even reduce the chances of salvation?

I dey feel u jare

4kings:
I'm not talking about talents and gifts.(I know those stories)

I was talking about predestination of paul and jeremiah
Here are scriptural references pertaining paul and jeremiah:
Galatians 1 verse 15 & 16:
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles,.....

Jeremiah 1 verse 5:
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Even Jacob was predestined to surplant Esua. How fair was that to Esua?
So I ask, if that's how god does his thinks, what's the point of preaching, or even creating humans? I don't believe in predestination and I don't believe in god either. None adds up

honourhim:
Bro everyone is created for a purpose and that is what happened in the case of Jeremiah and Paul. We are all born with gifts and callings. Some people's calling are much bigger than the others as in the case of these two men.
The point I'm making is that not everyone fulfill their purpose in life. Some still make wrong choices. That you are born for a purpose does not mean you will be remote controlled to fulfill it. However,I still recognize the place of grace.

What about the predestination of Jacob and Esua?

honourhim:
I have told you that God created all of us for a purpose and thats why he gave us gifts/talents. We are supposed to fulfill that purpose by using our gifts to serve humanity to the glory of God who gave the gifts to us.
I also told you that its not everybody that makes use of their gift or fulfill their purpose in life. Some people end up not making use of their gift and fulfilling their purpose in life.
Now the poor children you are talking about in Mozambique and Eriteria. They all are also blessed with gifts/talents and its only left for them to make use of it and fulfill their various purposes in life.
The Nigeria/Biafra war devastated the south east and rendered millions of them poor, sick and homeless then. Today when you come to the south east you wont believe that there was war there and many of those people who were part of that war and suffered its horrible effects are now living a very comfortable life some are very rich because people made use of their gifts.
You can agree with me that even in Nigeria in general, a lot of comfortable men and rich men today came from a very poor background but are rich today because they made good use of their gifts. You will also agree with me that most of our music stars, movies stars and other people who have excelled in various fields of life today in Nigeria came from a very poor background but made good use of their gifts to excel. So when you are talking about poor children in Mozambique pls bear in mind that there are poor children in various parts of the world who have risen to become either comfortable or rich or super rich in this world.
Hope you remember where our discuss started. You were driving at predestination of people and i was trying to draw a separation line about it but it seems you are now driving to a different thing again. I believe both of us are having good discussion and learning from one another but if it starts tilting towards unnecessary argument i will withdraw. As long as you keep it cool and focused, i am enjoying our discussion.



Just as God said that in the last days that many believers will fall from the faith, today its happening and thats why people like me are not surprised when i see how people depart from the faith.
God said that iniquity shall abound in the end time, today we can see tremendous spread of iniquity in the world so i have no doubt that this one you mentioned will happen too but pls note that there are anti christs in the world already. Atheists are one of them. What you are talking about is the beast and the mark of the beast event.


Nope. You are misrepresenting me here. I said some peoples purposes are higher. Simply means - Paul achieved higher than the other apostles. IF you come to the music industry, some musicians achieve higher than the others. But they are all gifted. Same goes for other professions. Thats what i mean.

I'm quite enjoying this discussion.
Thanks for addressing the 1st and 3rd question.

Now back to the 2nd issue. Your explanation suffice when looking at it as a system of belief or growth of ideas that is bound to occur.
But my intention for posing the question is as regard to predestination(prophecy) that is obviously tied to an individual and not a group or system.
I'm talking about cases like the horsemen, woman of Babylon, and the beasts, and how their every action were spoken of, remember I started with Judas.

Meanwhile, explain scriptures like proverbs 20 : 24, proverbs 19 : 21, I can't remember some right now.

@honourhim sorry for bombarding u with questions, but I want to talk a little bit on 'higher purpose' that u previously stated.

According to Paul's and Luke's view on this in romans 2 : 21 and acts 10 : 34 respectively, God does not show favouritism.
Also in 1corinthians 15 : 9 & 10, Paul indicates that his feat was based on his labour, though by god's guidance.

Also in 1corinthians 12 where gifts was talked about, there was no indication that it was inborn, but a phenomenon that is to be coveted and bestowed on those that believe.

Again Paul said in romans 12 : 3, that the *same* grace given to him, was given to all believers, *so that no one will think highly of himself*.

So please also explain what u mean by 'some men having higher purpose'.

Abeg which God?
Zeus? Kratos? Jehovah? Hades? Allah? Amadioha? Sango? Ogun?

Cyberclint:
Abeg which God?
Zeus? Kratos? Jehovah? Hades? Allah? Amadioha? Sango? Ogun?

The thread is for Yahweh the Christian God.

4kings:
The thread is for Yahweh the Christian God.

okay, noted!

lepasharon:
KingEbukaNaija how many monikers do you have?

Huh ?

KingEbukaNaija:
Huh ?

Dont play dumb.

lepasharon:
Dont play dumb.

wow . Whatever you wana think , think it

KingEbukaNaija:
wow . Whatever you wana think , think it

I take that as a yes

KingEbukaNaija:
wow . Whatever you wana think , think it

Why did you like ur own comment?

lepasharon:
Why did you like ur own comment?

Huehuehuehuehuehue

lepasharon:
Why did you like ur own comment?

Lolzzz .... how is that possible ? . You can't like your own comment

lepasharon:
I take that as a yes

Lolzzz ... you can take whatever you want

KingEbukaNaija:
Lolzzz .... how is that possible ? . You can't like your own comment

Don't play dumb. With ur other moniker..you did

lepasharon:
Don't play dumb. With ur other moniker..you did

I am not lying sharon (presumably ) . I did not like my own comment . Trust me . I'm a christian . Assuming I were an atheist , then its very rational to accuse me of any depravity

KingEbukaNaija:
I am not lying sharon (presumably ) . I did not like my own comment . Trust me . I'm a christian . Assuming I were an atheist , then its very rational to accuse me of any depravity

Appeal to emotion won't work here lovey.

KingEbukaNaija:
Lolzzz ... you can take whatever you want

I'll take that you are creating multiple moniker cause ur a creep

lepasharon:
I'll take that you are creating multiple moniker cause ur a creep

lolz . Im not a creep dear . You've seen my pic right ? Gentle cool dude . Incapable of doing any harm . .

KingEbukaNaija:
lolz . Im not a creep dear . You've seen my pic right ? Gentle cool dude . Incapable of doing any harm . .

Again, emotional appeal ain't working here love.

lepasharon:
Again, emotional appeal ain't working here love.

Can I possibly lie to you ?

KingEbukaNaija:
Can I possibly lie to you ? https://www.nairaland.com/kingebukasblog .

Nairaland has never been that deep for you to be making different monikers and trying to be someone else .

I'm out

lepasharon:
Nairaland has never been that deep for you to be making different monikers and trying to be someone else .
I'm out

Bye honey

Dalaman ...women though

4kings:
I'm quite enjoying this discussion.
Thanks for addressing the 1st and 3rd question.

Now back to the 2nd issue. Your explanation suffice when looking at it as a system of belief or growth of ideas that is bound to occur.
But my intention for posing the question is as regard to predestination(prophecy) that is obviously tied to an individual and not a group or system.
I'm talking about cases like the horsemen, woman of Babylon, and the beasts, and how their every action were spoken of, remember I started with Judas.

Yeah these are specific to an extent but then the name of the woman of babylon was not mentioned, likewise the beast, we dont have a specific picture about that. Thats my point. These are creatures specifically made to carry out the end time assignment as designed by God. Even the appearance of the woman of Babylon as described will show you its not mere human like us. They are not created in our likeness and do not function like us as you can see there so i do not see them fit into our discussion. However,i am not against your bringing it up.

4kings:
Meanwhile, explain scriptures like proverbs 20 : 24, proverbs 19 : 21, I can't remember some right now.

God intervenes in the affairs of man as it pleases him like in the case of job where He permitted satan to try Job. God never told satan the things he will do to Job and how he execute it. He only gave him a limit he should not exceed.


Are you implying thst these verses mean predestination? No bro. If thats what was meant there then there wouldnt have been need for king Solomon to write all that he wrote in proverbs and Ecclesiastes. If thats what he meant we wouldnt have been asked to pray in the scripture.
As christians we do pray for God to intervene in our lives and over challenges we are battling and God answers us. we ask him to guide our steps and he does. We are also aware that the enemy interferes in our live and we pray for God's help to overcome him and God does it for us.



N/B i will attend to your other post tomorrow when i am free. Make i sleep bro.

HardMirror:
What about the predestination of Jacob and Esua?

HardMirror:
Even Jacob was predestined to surplant Esua. How fair was that to Esua?
So I ask, if that's how god does his thinks, what's the point of preaching, or even creating humans? I don't believe in predestination and I don't believe in god either. None adds up

.

Jacob was not predestined to supplant Esau. God simply spoke his fore-knowledge of their lives that the elder shall serve the younger. Fore-knowlege is different from predestination. You are mixing the two. God has fore-knowledge of how our lives will run because he sees the end from the beginning but he doesnt remote control the whole thing. He blesses us with gifts/talents for us to make achievements in life but not that he will control you 100 percent for you to achieve it whether you like it or not. You are the one that will work with what he gave you. He may intervene at some points as the case may be.The devil also interferes. There is a place for his grace in life too i must mention.
It wasnt God that told Jacob to deceive Esau. Jacob and his mum simply chose to play a smart game on Esau. I have not seen where God applauded the game they played but i know that Jacob suffered the consequences of that deceit.
If you have other scriptural background to counter my points pls present. I'm open to such so that i can learn from it too. Learning is a continuous thing for me.

HardMirror:
I don't believe in predestination and I don't believe in god either. None adds up

.

Its your choice. I am not bothered about it because i know that if the future record of your life has it that you will meet what will make you repent at some point in your life, you will then repent but if not, then you will exit this world an atheist (too bad). I ve just done my part and what i ve written here may not be of any help to you but may be of help to some other person that will read it. Thats part of life.

honourhim:
.

Jacob was not predestined to supplant Esau. God simply spoke his fore-knowledge of their lives that the elder shall serve the younger. Fore-knowlege is different from predestination. You are mixing the two. God has fore-knowledge of how our lives will run because he sees the end from the beginning but he doesnt remote control the whole thing. He blesses us with gifts/talents for us to make achievements in life but not that he will control you 100 percent for you to achieve it whether you like it or not. You are the one that will work with what he gave you. He may intervene at some points as the case may be.The devil also interferes. There is a place for his grace in life too i must mention.
It wasnt God that told Jacob to deceive Esau. Jacob and his mum simply chose to play a smart game on Esau. I have not seen where God applauded the game they played but i know that Jacob suffered the consequences of that deceit.
If you have other scriptural background to counter my points pls present. I'm open to such so that i can learn from it too. Learning is a continuous thing for me.
.

Its your choice. I am not bothered about it because i know that if the future record of your life has it that you will meet what will make you repent at some point in your life, you will then repent but if not, then you will exit this world an atheist (too bad). I ve just done my part and what i ve written here may not be of any help to you but may be of help to some other person that will read it. Thats part of life.

So how is this not predestination
Even before they were born God had already determined Jacob will be master over Esua. It is visible to the blind that you are contradicting yourself and trying to defend God. We have given you lots of examples on how God predestines. I rest my case here. As you keep twisting words to no effect

HardMirror:
So how is this not predestination

Ok your definition of predestination is- having foreknowledge about a future event

HardMirror:
Even before they were born God had already determined Jacob will be master over Esua.

How did God determine it? I ve asked you to show me other portions that shows it was God that determined it and i will agree with you. I am not rigid about my stand. I am not the type that is rigid on my biblical stand because i dont know it all.
Again you have failed to show me where God supported what Jacob and his mum did to Esau.

HardMirror:
It is visible to the blind that you are contradicting yourself and trying to defend God.

Why should i defend God? He is the creator and even if he predestines someone's life he has every right to deal with his creatures as he pleases. But you have to convince me in this case that he wasnt voicing his foreknowledge of how their life will run that he was actually making a decree upon them.

HardMirror:
. We have given you lots of examples on how God predestines.

And i have provided answers to the examples which you cannot fault.

HardMirror:
I rest my case here.

Thanks for your time man.

HardMirror:
As you keep twisting words to no effect

I am not twisting any word. Go and check up the difference between predestination and foreknowledge in your dictionary pls.

honourhim:
Ok your definition of predestination is- having foreknowledge about a future event



How did God determine it? I ve asked you to show me other portions that shows it was God that determined it and i will agree with you. I am not rigid about my stand. I am not the type that is rigid on my biblical stand because i dont know it all.
Again you have failed to show me where God supported what Jacob and his mum did to Esau.




Why should i defend God? He is the creator and even if he predestines someone's life he has every right to deal with his creatures as he pleases. But you have to convince me in this case that he wasnt voicing his foreknowledge of how their life will run that he was actually making a decree upon them.



And i have provided answers to the examples which you cannot fault.



Thanks for your time man.



I am not twisting any word. Go and check up the difference between predestination and foreknowledge in your dictionary pls.

Sorry again for pitching into ur convo with hardmirror.
But how do u differentiate an Omnipotent's foreknowledge with predestination.