₦airaland Forum

Hillarie:
I was privileged to remember that I stole 20 Fishes from mom's pot during my childhood, Now I've known Christ and I wanna restitute, I've bought a carton of fish, but the problem now is, I don't know if it was Fried fish or smoked fish I stole. :p
.
I support Promise10
.
Jesus paid it all.
He took the responsibility for our sins, we are no longer to account for them Cause It's our faith that is counted to us as righteousness and not our 'Good works'
-Romans 4:5-8

1 TRILLION LIKES!!!!

Sanchez01:
First, let me say you're wrong about restitution being 'basically' PRAYING. Restitution goes beyond praying. In simple terms, it means righting the wrong.

It requires acting and going extra miles in correcting something that has been done in the past due to ignorance or lack of understanding.

Luke 19:1-10

“Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. He wanted to see who Jesus was, but being a short man he could not, because of the crowd. So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today." So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a `sinner.'"

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."

Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

Why is restitution encouraged? It is a public manifestation that you have given your heart to our Lord and have accepted Him publicly in your heart.

Restitution is a very hard thing to do. Grace, however, is all we can ask for because embarking on restitution on one's accord is a suicide mission.

Yes, you are correct, but it has NO EFFECT to the free gift of salvation.

promise10:
What nonsense is this one saying?
Heaven is equivalent to eternal life. So eternal life is a gift from revelation and as such is not true in reality? From which book did you get that from? Bible? Then, it is not really a bible!


You wanted to hide under rev:22:12 to commit this crime against the bible. But, it ain't gon' happen here!

Rev 22:12;Behold, I am coming soon, and I shall
bring My wages and rewards with Me, to repay and render to each one just what his own actions and his own work merit.

In the bible, FREE GIFT and REWARD were mentioned. Now they are NOT THE SAME.

Free gift, is something that is FREELY GIVEN on the basis of mercy and favour.

Reward is something this is NOT FREELY GIVEN, because it is given on the basis of work DONE. When I FREELY call a carpenter to do some work for me. At the end of the day, I don't give him a gift but I PAY him for what HE HAS DONE.

There is good reward and at the same time a bad one.

Now, before a reward is passed a judgment must be made. In the last day there will be judgment for the Justified and the unjustified. But, it is evident that the judgements will not be the same.

When the unjustified is judged they will sent to a state of torment as their reward. This is so sad, but it is a bitter truth and it's not God's fault.

When the justified is judged he shall receive a reward. Now what is the reward? Eternal life? NOOO!!!

Eternal life is the FREE GIFT of God!

Rom 6:23;(AMP);"For the wages of sin is death(which Jesus SINGLE-HANDEDLY SUFFERED AND PAID for on our behalf even without asking if we were good enough rom 5:8-9, rom 4:25), but the
free gift of God [that is, His
remarkable, OVERWHELMING GIFT OF GRACE to believers] is eternal life in
Christ Jesus our Lord."

Eternal life is the OVERWHELMING HYPER FREE GIFT OF GRACE. Hyper grace? Yes, that's why it passes ALL understanding and human imaginations and emotions!

You just quoted my post as nonsense without reading it carefully.
Read again, You will see that I was concisely trying to say what you just detailed here.
Heaven(ETERNAL LIFE) is a Gift from God,
The reward for our works(RIGHTEOUS LIVING) is an incorruptible crown.
.
What you said was what I meant.

Hillarie:
You just quoted my post as nonsense without reading it carefully.
Read again, You will see that I was concisely trying to say what you just detailed here.
Heaven(ETERNAL LIFE) is a Gift from God,
The reward for our works(RIGHTEOUS LIVING) is an incorruptible crown.
.
What you said was what I meant.

Really bro? I am very sorry, I apologise.

I thought you were saying the opposite.

promise10:
You keep running away from all my question, because you are a hypocritcal pharisee christian.

You are not yet serious, when you are serious I will know.

I am serious now

Whats your question?

izzou:
I am serious now

Whats your question?

No, I won't answer that. The questions are still on this thread, unmodified. So go back and answer anyone you can, thank you.

Hmmm, its very easy to interprete the scriptures to suit our convenience. Thats seems to be the trend with Christianity this days. Its a real pity.

How can a man defraud his company and then ask for forgiveness from God and then looks for where Grace is and hide under it? Hebrews 12:14 says "follow peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. At salvation, the sins of Adam in us plus our additional sins of the past is purged". But that doenst mean you will not go and tell the offended sorry and ask for their own forgiveness.

The omission of this truth from our sermon is church is the reason why cyber-crime (Yahoo) and public fund embezzlement are on steady increase in the World and alarmingly high among our so called Christian (or former) Youth and politicians. If the preachers hammers this restitution on their sermons, our youth will know the grave spiritual repercussion of their actions.

If you are aware that you will have to return the millions you have once defrauded from your cyber-crime/public fund embezzlement victims after salvation, you will not want to do any of these.

I have seen and have personally done restitution. Its a living proof that you count all of earthly possession as dung for the excellency of the cross.

Hillarie:
I was privileged to remember that I stole 20 Fishes from mom's pot during my childhood, Now I've known Christ and I wanna restitute, I've bought a carton of fish, but the problem now is, I don't know if it was Fried fish or smoked fish I stole. :p
.
I support Promise10
.
Jesus paid it all.
He took the responsibility for our sins, we are no longer to account for them Cause It's our faith that is counted to us as righteousness and not our 'Good works'
-Romans 4:5-8

You remember the exact number of fish you stole but do not know if they were fried or not? Indeed, we are not kids and God is not mocked. Restitution is about REPENTANCE, about reconciliation, about saying sorry, about making your ways right. All you need to do is apologise to who you stole from. If you have anything to give him/her, fine. The person might even tell you not to bother. How do you think Paul must have restituted with Stephen's family? You think he will be out of order to apologise? You think he should have just told them that Jesus has forgiven him and they must better do same? Or you think restitution means he must raise Stephen from the dead? Jesus paid the ransom/punishment for our sins. That is, the punishment FROM God. He did not pay all your tax and bills that you may have been illegally defaulting. Make your ways right, and have a conscience void of offence before God and before man.

Hoseaovo:
Hmmm, its very easy to interprete the scriptures to suit our convenience. Thats seems to be the trend with Christianity this days. Its a real pity.

How can a man defraud his company and then ask for forgiveness from God and then looks for where Grace is and hide under it? Hebrews 12:14 says "follow peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. At salvation, the sins of Adam in us plus our additional sins of the past is purged". But that doenst mean you will not go and tell the offended sorry and ask for their own forgiveness.

The omission of this truth from our sermon is church is the reason why cyber-crime (Yahoo) and public fund embezzlement are on steady increase in the World and alarmingly high among our so called Christian (or former) Youth and politicians. If the preachers hammers this restitution on their sermons, our youth will know the grave spiritual repercussion of their actions.

If you are aware that you will have to return the millions you have once defrauded from your cyber-crime/public fund embezzlement victims after salvation, you will not want to do any of these.

I have seen and have personally done restitution. Its a living proof that you count all of earthly possession as dung for the excellency of the cross.

You are still VERY FAR from the truth, no wonder why you didn't give any scriptural evidence to back up your claim, because you have no evidence.


Until you let go of your emotions- *what you think*, *how you feel* towards the finished work of christ. You will always DEVALUE IT, make it look USELESS just to satisfy your emotions.

Image123:
You remember the exact number of fish you stole but do not know if they were fried or not? Indeed, we are not kids and God is not mocked. Restitution is about REPENTANCE, about reconciliation, about saying sorry, about making your ways right. All you need to do is apologise to who you stole from. If you have anything to give him/her, fine. The person might even tell you not to bother. How do you think Paul must have restituted with Stephen's family? You think he will be out of order to apologise? You think he should have just told them that Jesus has forgiven him and they must better do same? Or you think restitution means he must raise Stephen from the dead? Jesus paid the ransom/punishment for our sins. That is, the punishment FROM God. He did not pay all your tax and bills that you may have been illegally defaulting. Make your ways right, and have a conscience void of offence before God and before man.

Posts like this is why I call some christians, lying-unbelievers.

Please, for how long will you continue to bastardise words like "REPENTANCE" "RECONCILIATION"? Before you use words like this, it is always important learn what they are really are.

I don't oppose restitution, until people use it to oppose the free gift of salvation. That's when it becomes a problem. You can't be relying on grace and works at the same time. It is a DECEPTION! It is EITHER grace OR works!

THE MEANING OF REPENTANCE:
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the
inner man (particularly with reference to
acceptance of the will of God)


“Repentance is NOT some little silly, 'I'm sorry.' Repentance is NOT SIMPLY a fear of God throwing you into hell. Repentance is NOT a monk fasting and afflicting his body in a monastery. Repentance is NOT remorse because of sin's consequences. Repentance is NOT penance performed before the pope as you kiss his toe... Repentance is NOT being sorry for what I've done wrong. It is NOT confessing one's sins to a priest. It is NOT just conviction of sin. It is NOT THE SINGING OF A FALSE PLEDGE OF ABSTENENCE. REPENTANCE IS that thing when you come before God and see yourself AS YOU ARE, and see Him AS HE IS, and say with Isaiah 'WOE IS ME, FOR I AM UNCLEAN(even when you think you are 100% perfect)!'”

Repentance which means change of mind is NOT what happens ONLY when we sin. But, it is what happens in our daily life, without interfering in our good and bad behaviour.

Repentance is all about CHANGING YOUR MIND from 100% perfect good works(which is impossible) you have to do to get accepted by God, TO BELIEVING what Jesus has done FOR YOU at the cross ON YOUR BEHALF, so that you can be FREELY ACCEPTED BY GOD. That's why salvation is a FREE GIFT BY FREE GRACE.

Repentance is the sinner’s recognition of and
acknowledgment of his lost estate.

No one was ever saved in any dispensation
excepting by grace. Neither sacrificial observances,
nor ritual service, nor works of law ever had any part in justifying the ungodly. Nor were any sinners ever saved by grace until they repented. Repentance is NOT OPPOSED to grace; it is the RECOGNITION OF THE NEED OF THE FREE GIFT OF GRACE. ‘They that be whole need NOT a physician,
but they that are SICK.


Which comes first, repentance or faith? In Scripture we read, 'Repent ye, and believe the gospel.' Yet we find true believers exhorted to 'repent, and do the first works.' So intimately are the two related that you cannot have one without the other. The man who believes God repents; the repentant soul puts his trust in the Lord when the Gospel is revealed to him. Theologians may wrangle over this, but the fact is, no man repents until the Holy Spirit produces repentance in his soul through the truth. No man believes the Gospel and rests in it for his own salvation until he has judged himself as a NEEDY SINNER before God. And this is repentance.

Repentance is the VERY OPPOSITE of meritorious experience. It is the confession that one is utterly WITHOUT MERIT, and if he is ever saved at all it can ONLY be through the MERIT OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, 'who gave himself a ransom for all.' Here is firm footing for the soul who realizes that all self-effort is but sinking sand. CHRIST ALONE(not your restitution) is the Rock of our salvation.


SEE HARRY A IRONSIDE QUOTE on repentance and restitution.

“The Gospel is not a call to repentance, or to amendment of our ways, to make restitution for past sins, or to falsely promise to do better in the future. These things are proper in their place, but they do not constitute the Gospel; for the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed. Do not make the mistake then of thinking that the Gospel is a call to duty or a call to reformation, a call to better your condition, to behave yourself in a more perfect way than you have been doing in the past … Nor is the Gospel a demand that you give up the world, that you give up your sins, that you break off bad habits, and try to cultivate good ones. You may do all these things, and YET NEVER BELIEVED THE GOSPEL and consequently NEVER BE SAVED AT ALL.”

Restitution is NOT true repentance. One can still pay back what he stole even when he has not believed the gospel. Has he repented unto salvation?

Image123:
You remember the exact number of fish you stole but do not know if they were fried or not? Indeed, we are not kids and God is not mocked. Restitution is about REPENTANCE, about reconciliation, about saying sorry, about making your ways right. All you need to do is apologise to who you stole from. If you have anything to give him/her, fine. The person might even tell you not to bother. How do you think Paul must have restituted with Stephen's family? You think he will be out of order to apologise? You think he should have just told them that Jesus has forgiven him and they must better do same? Or you think restitution means he must raise Stephen from the dead? Jesus paid the ransom/punishment for our sins. That is, the punishment FROM God. He did not pay all your tax and bills that you may have been illegally defaulting. Make your ways right, and have a conscience void of offence before God and before man.

Bro, I didn't say you're wrong, all I'm saying is that Restitution is not a criterion for heaven.
I'm not discouraged by your words cause I was born and raised in a Christian home but if you should say this to new converts and unbelievers, it would discourage them totally.
The Thief hanging at Jesus' side didn't do any restitution and yet, Jesus promised that he will be with Him in Paradise, why?
Because he had faith, he believed that Jesus was the Son of God and a righteous man. He did no restitution.

Hillarie:
Bro, I didn't say you're wrong, all I'm saying is that Restitution is not a criterium for heaven.
I'm not discouraged by your words cause I was born and raised in a Christian home but if you should say this to new converts and unbelievers, it would discourage them totally.
The Thief hanging at Jesus' side didn't do any restitution and yet, Jesus promised that he will be with Him in Paradise, why?
Because he had faith, he believed that Jesus was the Son of God and a righteous man. He did no restitution.

i did not say that it is the criteria for salvation. There are many new converts and unbelievers who have been encouraged to restitute their ways. It is a right thing for a christian to do. Good works do not save us but we do them e.g communion, restitution, giving of alms, tithes and offering, healing the sick, casting out devils, praying etc. Playing the absurdity card to discredit restitution is not the right thing to do. Everything in the faith can be played absurdly BTW, faith itself is absurd to the unbeliever.

promise10:
Posts like this is why I call some christians, lying-unbelievers.

Please, for how long will you continue to bastardise words like "REPENTANCE" "RECONCILIATION"? Before you use words like this, it is always important learn what they are really are.

I don't oppose restitution, until people use it to oppose the free gift of salvation. That's when it becomes a problem. You can't be relying on grace and works at the same time. It is a DECEPTION! It is EITHER grace OR works!

THE MEANING OF REPENTANCE:
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the
inner man (particularly with reference to
acceptance of the will of God)


“Repentance is NOT some little silly, 'I'm sorry.' Repentance is NOT SIMPLY a fear of God throwing you into hell. Repentance is NOT a monk fasting and afflicting his body in a monastery. Repentance is NOT remorse because of sin's consequences. Repentance is NOT penance performed before the pope as you kiss his toe... Repentance is NOT being sorry for what I've done wrong. It is NOT confessing one's sins to a priest. It is NOT just conviction of sin. It is NOT THE SINGING OF A FALSE PLEDGE OF ABSTENENCE. REPENTANCE IS that thing when you come before God and see yourself AS YOU ARE, and see Him AS HE IS, and say with Isaiah 'WOE IS ME, FOR I AM UNCLEAN(even when you think you are 100% perfect)!'”

Repentance which means change of mind is NOT what happens ONLY when we sin. But, it is what happens in our daily life, without interfering in our good and bad behaviour.

Repentance is all about CHANGING YOUR MIND from 100% perfect good works(which is impossible) you have to do to get accepted by God, TO BELIEVING what Jesus has done FOR YOU at the cross ON YOUR BEHALF, so that you can be FREELY ACCEPTED BY GOD. That's why salvation is a FREE GIFT BY FREE GRACE.

Repentance is the sinner’s recognition of and
acknowledgment of his lost estate.

No one was ever saved in any dispensation
excepting by grace. Neither sacrificial observances,
nor ritual service, nor works of law ever had any part in justifying the ungodly. Nor were any sinners ever saved by grace until they repented. Repentance is NOT OPPOSED to grace; it is the RECOGNITION OF THE NEED OF THE FREE GIFT OF GRACE. ‘They that be whole need NOT a physician,
but they that are SICK.


Which comes first, repentance or faith? In Scripture we read, 'Repent ye, and believe the gospel.' Yet we find true believers exhorted to 'repent, and do the first works.' So intimately are the two related that you cannot have one without the other. The man who believes God repents; the repentant soul puts his trust in the Lord when the Gospel is revealed to him. Theologians may wrangle over this, but the fact is, no man repents until the Holy Spirit produces repentance in his soul through the truth. No man believes the Gospel and rests in it for his own salvation until he has judged himself as a NEEDY SINNER before God. And this is repentance.

Repentance is the VERY OPPOSITE of meritorious experience. It is the confession that one is utterly WITHOUT MERIT, and if he is ever saved at all it can ONLY be through the MERIT OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, 'who gave himself a ransom for all.' Here is firm footing for the soul who realizes that all self-effort is but sinking sand. CHRIST ALONE(not your restitution) is the Rock of our salvation.


SEE HARRY A IRONSIDE QUOTE on repentance and restitution.

“The Gospel is not a call to repentance, or to amendment of our ways, to make restitution for past sins, or to falsely promise to do better in the future. These things are proper in their place, but they do not constitute the Gospel; for the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed. Do not make the mistake then of thinking that the Gospel is a call to duty or a call to reformation, a call to better your condition, to behave yourself in a more perfect way than you have been doing in the past … Nor is the Gospel a demand that you give up the world, that you give up your sins, that you break off bad habits, and try to cultivate good ones. You may do all these things, and YET NEVER BELIEVED THE GOSPEL and consequently NEVER BE SAVED AT ALL.”

Restitution is NOT true repentance. One can still pay back what he stole even when he has not believed the gospel. Has he repented unto salvation?

Avoid unnecessary verbosity. i did not equate restitution to christian repentance or make it a criteria for SALVATION. The question was "Should a christian restitute?"

Hillarie:
Bro, I didn't say you're wrong, all I'm saying is that Restitution is not a criterion for heaven.
I'm not discouraged by your words cause I was born and raised in a Christian home but if you should say this to new converts and unbelievers, it would discourage them totally.
The Thief hanging at Jesus' side didn't do any restitution and yet, Jesus promised that he will be with Him in Paradise, why?
Because he had faith, he believed that Jesus was the Son of God and a righteous man. He did no restitution.

They are the main reason why many christians turn into atheism, out of frustration of achieving 100% perfect good works to be accepted by God, which is a devilish deception.

Image123:
i did not say that it is the criteria for salvation. There are many new converts and unbelievers who have been encouraged to restitute their ways. It is a right thing for a christian to do. Good works do not save us but we do them e.g communion, restitution, giving of alms, tithes and offering, healing the sick, casting out devils, praying etc. Playing the absurdity card to discredit restitution is not the right thing to do. Everything in the faith can be played absurdly BTW, faith itself is absurd to the unbeliever.

I get you now, Restitution is good but not a compulsory action for all Christians.

promise10:
They are the main reason why many christians turn into atheism, out of frustration of achieving 100% perfect good works to be accepted by God, which is a devilish deception.

exactly!

Restitution is a sign of true repentance
If you fail to restore things you have taken unjustly it means you have not really repented
Faith that doe's not have work to show for it is dead

A man who is not saved would not bother to restore what he has taken. Why? Because he is walking after his flesh.

Hillarie:
I get you now, Restitution is good but not a compulsory action for all Christians.

Just like communion, giving of alms, tithes and offering, healing the sick, casting out devils, praying etc.

promise10:
You are still VERY FAR from the truth, no wonder why you didn't give any scriptural evidence to back up your claim, because you have no evidence.


Until you let go of your emotions- *what you think*, *how you feel* towards the finished work of christ. You will always DEVALUE IT, make it look USELESS just to satisfy your emotions.

It is well with you Bro, You know what you know, I know mine. Its only here on earth that we can get it right. And we better get it right

Scholar8200:
Of course, in order to have a conscience void of offence toward God and toward men!

Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Matthew 5:23,24

If we dont do this, Jesus said we are building on sand!

I doubt it if this verse corresponds with restitution. Check it again

ArcToyin:
I doubt it if this verse corresponds with restitution. Check it again

The rationale is the same - having a conscience void of offence toward all men.

ArcToyin:
I doubt it if this verse corresponds with restitution. Check it again

One of the ills of the bible- people can interpret/use it according to how they want it.

freshcvvs:
One of the ills of the bible- people can interpret/use it according to how they want it.

ills?

ArcToyin:
ills?

Yes, Ills!

freshcvvs:
Yes, Ills!

that sounds negative about the Scripture. Are you saying the scripture has some wrong message?

ArcToyin:
that sounds negative about the Scripture. Are you saying the scripture has some wrong message?

"Wrong is relative", in the bible, we have all the right and wrongs there. depending on how and what you intend doing with it.

freshcvvs:
"Wrong is relative", in the bible, we have all the right and wrongs there. depending on how and what you intend doing with it.

I disagree with the 'wrongs' u said we have in the scripture. May be you quote one and let me see.

ArcToyin:
I disagree with the 'wrongs' u said we have in the scripture. May be you quote one and let me see.

Can you justify the killings that happened almost all through the old testament? the oppression, the enslavement e.t.c?

freshcvvs:
Can you justify the killings that happened almost all through the old testament? the oppression, the enslavement e.t.c?

killings? Who orchestrated the killings? refer me to a particular one. All i know is the scripture is inspired by God. If u say there are wrongs in the scripture possibly u r saying God made a mistake? 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21

Yes a christian should restitute

ArcToyin:
killings? Who orchestrated the killings? refer me to a particular one. All i know is the scripture is inspired by God. If u say there are wrongs in the scripture possibly u r saying God made a mistake? 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21

If the Fulanis or beroms come to your part of the country to kill, rape and occupy your Land in the name of God. Are you going to tap them on the shoulder and say they are justified?

BTW why use the bible to justify the Bible, does that make sense?

Being the judge and the jury at the same time.