iLoveTheSun:
@DUNKA

Thanks for sharing the link. I hope many will find it useful to learn how to wire properly.

Without knowing the length of the ground cable, I'd go for safe harbor. Surge protection for DC photovoltaic is more demanding. I'd recommend to install the DC SPD outside of the building envelope and leave the grounding cable outside the building. And I would run the cable the shortest way (low resistance).

By the way, the last indoor pictures show indoor wiring and battery setup. Is this the bespoken installation?

Yes it is

Chei Dunka, this is mouth watering. Congratulations bro, and welcome to the club!

I am in need of a Goodwe GW5048D-ES hybrid inverter. Any dealer/seller please respond, thanks.

durodee:

I hardly use the inverter, but about a few days ago I conected it to an old battery to test the battery. I didnt disconect the batt thereafter but inverter was switched off and in the middle of the room and NOT CONNECTED TO ANYTHING. There was just a loud bang with bright flash of light within the house. The inverter started smoking with that wierd light on . My main inverter ( 2.4KW HYBRID) which was in use at the time of the lightning strike of course died a natural death. My auxilliary inverter Sukham 1.4kva also connected to its own battery bank beside the main inverter was spared and thats what I am using now. I had 2 CC working at that time and both continued as if nothing happened.
My beef is the issue of the small inverter.
Paradoxically I thought this specific house was not thunder prone and i had only an earthing system in place.

i think what happened was , ur house doesnt hv a lightening protector [that spike on the roof], thus when there a direct hit, the lightening didnt hv a direct path to ground thus it was jumping all over the house, and chanced on the inverters, the ones that didnt burn either have better electronics inside them, or thier casing is less metallic than the others.
in real life this scenario is played out if a human being is standing under a tree during a rainstorm, and the tree receives a direct strike, the lightening will try to discharge to ground through the tree trunk, but as its going down..it senses a better conductor...which is the human body, thus it will jump from the tree to the person, and fry him, all these happens in nano seconds.

1 may escape a direct hit if some of the following occur.
1. your house is a bungalow and there is a 1storey of higher structure very close to u.
2. your roofing is made of ceramic tiles, while ur neighbours is long span aluminuim [the lightening will choose ur neigbhours house - all things being equal ]
3. you hv ur lightening spike, and grounding connected properly...i repaet properly, its best you dont hv a spike than you have a spike system consturcted wrongly, it will attract the lightening..an the lightening will burn down ur roof if it doesnt see a good path to ground, this will happen if you use fae./wrong copper strip connection to spike

Barezzi:
Chei Dunka, this is mouth watering. Congratulations bro, and welcome to the club!

I am in need of a Goodwe GW5048D-ES hybrid inverter. Any dealer/seller please respond, thanks.

thanks my brother we shall all get there someday

Thanks Bros, I now know I have a lot of work to do. My generator in the outhouse got hit too with the AVR damaged, thankfully that was easy to replace.

earthrealm:


i think what happened was , ur house doesnt hv a lightening protector [that spike on the roof], thus when there a direct hit, the lightening didnt hv a direct path to ground thus it was jumping all over the house, and chanced on the inverters, the ones that didnt burn either have better electronics inside them, or thier casing is less metallic than the others.
in real life this scenario is played out if a human being is standing under a tree during a rainstorm, and the tree receives a direct strike, the lightening will try to discharge to ground through the tree trunk, but as its going down..it senses a better conductor...which is the human body, thus it will jump from the tree to the person, and fry him, all these happens in nano seconds.

1 may escape a direct hit if some of the following occur.
1. your house is a bungalow and there is a 1storey of higher structure very close to u.
2. your roofing is made of ceramic tiles, while ur neighbours is long span aluminuim [the lightening will choose ur neigbhours house - all things being equal ]
3. you hv ur lightening spike, and grounding connected properly...i repaet properly, its best you dont hv a spike than you have a spike system consturcted wrongly, it will attract the lightening..an the lightening will burn down ur roof if it doesnt see a good path to ground, this will happen if you use fae./wrong copper strip connection to spike

dunka..You have done well. my 12 pcs of 250w Yingli is doing well. my classic 150 regulates well. my 2 yrs old trojans still firing like new. .my mustpower voltron works well.
juo I am s sorry for the long silence from my end.

earthrealm:


i think what happened was , ur house doesnt hv a lightening protector [that spike on the roof], thus when there a direct hit, the lightening didnt hv a direct path to ground thus it was jumping all over the house, and chanced on the inverters, the ones that didnt burn either have better electronics inside them, or thier casing is less metallic than the others.
in real life this scenario is played out if a human being is standing under a tree during a rainstorm, and the tree receives a direct strike, the lightening will try to discharge to ground through the tree trunk, but as its going down..it senses a better conductor...which is the human body, thus it will jump from the tree to the person, and fry him, all these happens in nano seconds.

1 may escape a direct hit if some of the following occur.
1. your house is a bungalow and there is a 1storey of higher structure very close to u.
2. your roofing is made of ceramic tiles, while ur neighbours is long span aluminuim [the lightening will choose ur neigbhours house - all things being equal ]
3. you hv ur lightening spike, and grounding connected properly...i repaet properly, its best you dont hv a spike than you have a spike system consturcted wrongly, it will attract the lightening..an the lightening will burn down ur roof if it doesnt see a good path to ground, this will happen if you use fae./wrong copper strip connection to spike

bros abeg your email. Mine is bigbrovar2 at Gmail .

@ Gurus in the house.

Well done! Every time I think I've got this figured out, then I hear some new insights from you learned folks.

I have a couple of questions, which hopefully the house is able to help with:

1. What is the best connection for a 3kWp solar panel installation, with 6 nos. 12V, 200Ah gel batteries and a 4/5kVA, 48V Hybrid inverter? What brands would you suggest?

2. Is there a preference for flooded lead acid over say gel or AGM batteries, in a solar, partial off-grid system?

3. Re Dunka's comment on the Axpert inverters and their undercharging of flooded batteries. Is this problem just for flooded cell batteries or also for AGM and gel batteries?

4. From searches, is a de-sulphator really required for small battery setups such as the above?

Thanks for your kind responses.

@battleaxe:

No. 1:
Just for clarification:
What do you mean with "6 nos. 12V..."? You will need four (4 x 12V) or eight batteries (two banks with four each).
Brands: SMA Sunny Island (German), Outback(US)/Schneider Electric (French), Victron (Danish).

No. 2:
I'd recommend flooded, if you have a well vented place where you can store the batteries.
Brands: Hoppecke (German, but some components are made in China and then assembled in Germany), Trojan (US), Rolls, Fiamm VRLA (Italian, but made in China).

battleaxe:
@ Gurus in the house.

Well done! Every time I think I've got this figured out, then I hear some new insights from you learned folks.

I have a couple of questions, which hopefully the house is able to help with:

1. What is the best connection for a 3kWp solar panel installation, with 6 nos. 12V, 200Ah gel batteries and a 4/5kVA, 48V Hybrid inverter? What brands would you suggest?

2. Is there a preference for flooded lead acid over say gel or AGM batteries, in a solar, partial off-grid system?

3. Re Dunka's comment on the Axpert inverters and their undercharging of flooded batteries. Is this problem just for flooded cell batteries or also for AGM and gel batteries?

4. From searches, is a de-sulphator really required for small battery setups such as the above?

Thanks for your kind responses.

@ battleaxe I am no Guru but let me answer no. 3. Do not get it twisted Axpert is a good inverter but for flooded batteries you need to aware of its limitations. Note that it is for flooded batteries which need a higher voltage to be fully charged and also needs monthly equalization charge which the Axpert cannot do.

For other types of battery you are good to go as the charging parameters of the Axpert can handle and they do not need an equalization charge.

For the Axpert using flooded you will need a good quality charge controller to fully charge and do an equalization charge.

Hope this helps

@battleaxe:

Where are you located, please?

Personally, I prefer programmable inverters where you can configure the type of battery, i.e. voltage settings, etc.
(This should be done by a professional electrician.) Advantage: since batteries deteriorate over time, you can adapt the charging process to the State of Health (SoH) of your batteries.
And I'd recommend a battery monitoring which is temperature sensitive, if it is not integrated in a hybrid solution and if your budget does allow it. It will add lifetime to your batteries. Temperature sensitive means you have a temp. sensor that is attached in the middle of your battery bank, it does take the temp. of the batteries into account.

Regarding solar charger, go for an MPPT controller. It has to match the specs of your solar modules, of course.
3 kWp = 12 x 250 Watt(peak). Regarding string design, I'd go for high voltage, e.g. 150 Volts (open circuit) or higher.

Hybrid (all-in-one box solution) versus modular components:
If you know what you need, Hybrid is good. (Even though I do not have long-term experience with Chinese Hybrids, to be honest! So I am not able to give any feedback here.)
If you want to stay flexible and to grow later, I would choose modular components, i.e. solar MPPT charger, inverter, battery monitoring system.
According to your future needs, you can upgrade the components. Make sure the right breakers, fuses, surge protectors are installed to protect the components from each other in case of failure.
...

battleaxe:



2. Is there a preference for flooded lead acid over say gel or AGM batteries, in a solar, partial off-grid system?




Thanks for your kind responses.

Concerning the batteries. It all depends on use case, level of expertise of the user, and lots of other consideration. It all depends on the user.

Flooded batteries are generally more rugged, the last longer and are tougher. A good flooded battery like Trojan or USB can last over 5 years if well maintained.. the down side.. it requires periodic maintenance which has to be adhered to otherwise they would go bad before their time.
They require constant monitoring, ( u would need a hydrometer) to check the state of the cells, and electrolyte level. When the electrolyte drops beyond a certain level. They need be replaced and topped with distilled water.

You are also to perform periodic equalisation charge or they loss their ability to keep charge.

FLA are also sensitive how you charge them. Generally they are not suppose to be charged more than 13% of their capacity. So a 100AH battery should be charged at no more than 13A otherwise it will die before it's time. Add the fact that fla emits dangerous gases which can cause explosion so ventilation is important.

AGM is also good. They are capable of fast charging.. can take up to 20-30% of battery capacity.. and are capable of high discharge. They are sealed and generally maintenance free. The down side is they have shorter life compared to FLA. Although now they are AGM batteries with cycles that rivals a FLA especially the type with tubular plates. Generally most AGM will give you 800 cycles at 50 depth of discharge (fla can easily do 1200 at 50 DOD) one other down side if AGM is it requires cool environment.. at least 25C so you also have to factor that into consideration.

GEL imho should be avoided unless they are to be used very light discharge usage. Gel are very sensitive to charges.. they can't be fast charged and don't like high discharge. For SMF batteries I generally would recommend AGM. Gel have better tolerance to relatively higher ambiance temperature than AGM.

Battleaxe, I prefer the hybrid inverter to modular setups.

I currently own the Magnum MS4348PE, FM60 charge controller, PV array of about 3500w, 400Ah 48Vdc battery bank, dc disconnect box, surge protectors etc. I've been using this for more than 4 years i think...

I'm currently dissatisfied with it cos it's dumb. I've been racking my head on how to implement an intelligent energy management system with it, but no luck.

I want a setup that can intelligently look at my PV production, Battery capacity, PHCN, time of day and smartly decide the mix to power my loads.
A smart hybrid inverter can comfortably do this...
Hey, my setup listed above is up for sale, interested buyers are welcome

I came to the right place!

A very big thank you to you all. I have some more questions based on your above responses. I'll send separately so you gurus can help answer.

Thanks again.

Barezzi:
Battleaxe, I prefer the hybrid inverter to modular setups.

I currently own the Magnum MS4348PE, FM60 charge controller, PV array of about 3500w, 400Ah 48Vdc battery bank, dc disconnect box, surge protectors etc. I've been using this for more than 4 years i think...

I'm currently dissatisfied with it cos it's dumb. I've been racking my head on how to implement an intelligent energy management system with it, but no luck.

I want a setup that can intelligently look at my PV production, Battery capacity, PHCN, time of day and smartly decide the mix to power my loads.
A smart hybrid inverter can comfortably do this...
Hey, my setup listed above is up for sale, interested buyers are welcome

Hello Barezzi, has the inverter undergone repair/maintenance in the past ? Whats the make & spec of your PV array ?? Reply via SMS +2348135031951

iLoveTheSun:
@battleaxe:

No. 1:
Just for clarification:
What do you mean with "6 nos. 12V..."? You will need four (4 x 12V) or eight batteries (two banks with four each).
Brands: SMA Sunny Island (German), Outback(US)/Schneider Electric (French), Victron (Danish).

No. 2:
I'd recommend flooded, if you have a well vented place where you can store the batteries.
Brands: Hoppecke (German, but some components are made in China and then assembled in Germany), Trojan (US), Rolls, Fiamm VRLA (Italian, but made in China).

@ilovedsun
Thanks.

So I assume I can only use 6 batteries let's say I was on a 24v system? But for a 48v system, I'm constrained to multiples of four 12v batteries?

Can you suggest a single point shop where I can get these brands? The problem is that most vendors have what the market wants, and not necessarily the best brands.

A one point shop with a connection diagram and list of items would be ideal but we're not totally there yet. Any advice is welcomed.

Thanks.

iLoveTheSun:
@battleaxe:

Where are you located, please?

Personally, I prefer programmable inverters where you can configure the type of battery, i.e. voltage settings, etc.
(This should be done by a professional electrician.) Advantage: since batteries deteriorate over time, you can adapt the charging process to the State of Health (SoH) of your batteries.
And I'd recommend a battery monitoring which is temperature sensitive, if it is not integrated in a hybrid solution and if your budget does allow it. It will add lifetime to your batteries. Temperature sensitive means you have a temp. sensor that is attached in the middle of your battery bank, it does take the temp. of the batteries into account.

Regarding solar charger, go for an MPPT controller. It has to match the specs of your solar modules, of course.
3 kWp = 12 x 250 Watt(peak). Regarding string design, I'd go for high voltage, e.g. 150 Volts (open circuit) or higher.

Hybrid (all-in-one box solution) versus modular components:
If you know what you need, Hybrid is good. (Even though I do not have long-term experience with Chinese Hybrids, to be honest! So I am not able to give any feedback here.)
If you want to stay flexible and to grow later, I would choose modular components, i.e. solar MPPT charger, inverter, battery monitoring system.
According to your future needs, you can upgrade the components. Make sure the right breakers, fuses, surge protectors are installed to protect the components from each other in case of failure.
...

Lagos based.

I unfortunately can't do flooded. So will be looking for the next best option.

So you mean a battery life saver? Or what do you mean by a battery monitoring system?

I've seen a lot of hybrid inverters like the Axperts on offer. With this, I won't be going for a separate solar charger. Unless I hear bad reviews on the like of these.

bigrovar:


Concerning the batteries. It all depends on use case, level of expertise of the user, and lots of other consideration. It all depends on the user.

Flooded batteries are generally more rugged, the last longer and are tougher. A good flooded battery like Trojan or USB can last over 5 years if well maintained.. the down side.. it requires periodic maintenance which has to be adhered to otherwise they would go bad before their time.
They require constant monitoring, ( u would need a hydrometer) to check the state of the cells, and electrolyte level. When the electrolyte drops beyond a certain level. They need be replaced and topped with distilled water.

You are also to perform periodic equalisation charge or they loss their ability to keep charge.

FLA are also sensitive how you charge them. Generally they are not suppose to be charged more than 13% of their capacity. So a 100AH battery should be charged at no more than 13A otherwise it will die before it's time. Add the fact that fla emits dangerous gases which can cause explosion so ventilation is important.

AGM is also good. They are capable of fast charging.. can take up to 20-30% of battery capacity.. and are capable of high discharge. They are sealed and generally maintenance free. The down side is they have shorter life compared to FLA. Although now they are AGM batteries with cycles that rivals a FLA especially the type with tubular plates. Generally most AGM will give you 800 cycles at 50 depth of discharge (fla can easily do 1200 at 50 DOD) one other down side if AGM is it requires cool environment.. at least 25C so you also have to factor that into consideration.

GEL imho should be avoided unless they are to be used very light discharge usage. Gel are very sensitive to charges.. they can't be fast charged and don't like high discharge. For SMF batteries I generally would recommend AGM. Gel have better tolerance to relatively higher ambiance temperature than AGM.

Chai!

Na wa o!

Which battery will somebody now go and use?? All of them have one k-leg or the other.

Was looking at AGM or gel earlier but seems AGM should be knocked off if you can't keep in a cool area. I'm really getting overwhelmed.

Thanks.

Barezzi:
Battleaxe, I prefer the hybrid inverter to modular setups.

I currently own the Magnum MS4348PE, FM60 charge controller, PV array of about 3500w, 400Ah 48Vdc battery bank, dc disconnect box, surge protectors etc. I've been using this for more than 4 years i think...

I'm currently dissatisfied with it cos it's dumb. I've been racking my head on how to implement an intelligent energy management system with it, but no luck.

I want a setup that can intelligently look at my PV production, Battery capacity, PHCN, time of day and smartly decide the mix to power my loads.
A smart hybrid inverter can comfortably do this...
Hey, my setup listed above is up for sale, interested buyers are welcome

is that why you are looking for a Goodwe GW5048D-ES hybrid inverter?

battleaxe:


Lagos based.

I unfortunately can't do flooded. So will be looking for the next best option.

So you mean a battery life saver? Or what do you mean by a battery monitoring system?

I've seen a lot of hybrid inverters like the Axperts on offer. With this, I won't be going for a separate solar charger. Unless I hear bad reviews on the like of these.

Axpert, Ipower etc it all depends on exact load u wanna power up on this hybrid inverters ... It might not look as rugged as stand alone pure sine wave inverters which comfortably power 1.5hp water pump, air condition (1hp /1.5hp)electric iron,microwave, hair dryer etc (one at a time) ... If your max load is just fridges or freezers & microwave , hybrid inverter will serve for that . Thanks

#Note: below is an attached pic of Ipower 5kva 48v hybrid inverter which can't comfortably power some of the loads I listed above (one load at a time e.g water pump or electric iron, split ac since client has bout 3.5kw array).. Client got tired of blown mosfets and replaced hybrid inverter with 5kva power star light 4000w 48v stand alone inverter ..Client even got discouraged on hybrid inbuilt solar charging algorithm , he used an optional morningstar pwm before pulling down hybrid system to a stand alone heavy duty inverter system .. He is currently on an ep solar 60a mppt ..

No issues at all kiekie1. It's still Bright and spotless as if I bought it this morning.

Yes Dunka.

Barezzi:
Battleaxe, I prefer the hybrid inverter to modular setups.

I currently own the Magnum MS4348PE, FM60 charge controller, PV array of about 3500w, 400Ah 48Vdc battery bank, dc disconnect box, surge protectors etc. I've been using this for more than 4 years i think...

I'm currently dissatisfied with it cos it's dumb. I've been racking my head on how to implement an intelligent energy management system with it, but no luck.

I want a setup that can intelligently look at my PV production, Battery capacity, PHCN, time of day and smartly decide the mix to power my loads.
A smart hybrid inverter can comfortably do this...
Hey, my setup listed above is up for sale, interested buyers are welcome

Not so fast! I think you have good solar components out there. You need to be more explicit on what you actually mean by energy management. There is much you can do with programmable timer switches and automatic transfer switches.
With the simple setup in the image below, I supply power to my load based on time of the day and availability of PHCN power supply.

Barezzi:
No issues at all kiekie1. It's still Bright and spotless as if I bought it this morning.

Yes Dunka.

OK I didn't get your SMS so we chat privately ! Thanks

Seems he needs a new excitement especially with the latest systems coming up

donmajor2:

Not so fast! I think you have good solar components out there. You need to be more explicit on what you actually mean by energy management. There is much you can do with programmable timer switches and automatic transfer switches.
With the simple setup in the image below, I supply power to my load based on time of the day and availability of PHCN power supply.

Barezzi:
No issues at all kiekie1. It's still Bright and spotless as if I bought it this morning.

Yes Dunka.

Please has the inverter or CC being worked or repaired previously? How much for the various components? Kindly advise

Barezzi:
No issues at all kiekie1. It's still Bright and spotless as if I bought it this morning.

Yes Dunka.

also what brand are your panels? Kindly snap pics of yr set up. Na gode

DMerciful:
Seems he needs a new excitement especially with the latest systems coming up

Expensive new toys abi...
Dunka and kiekie1 I'll contact you with pictures once I get home. Thanks.

Barezzi:


Expensive new toys abi...
Dunka and kiekie1 I'll contact you with pictures once I get home. Thanks.

Ooo Barezzi, quite an age ! I never knew you are one of my old time clients till your call came in... Nagode !

so i have 4units 24v 250w usa renogy panels, am thinking of upping my setup to 1500w, ie adding 2more units of 250w panels, my problem is that i cant get the renogy panels anymore, thus am forced to mix the panels...maybe yingli or sunworld.
so i will have 2 strings of 3 panels each feeding my 60amps mppt epsolar CC.

i hope my plan of mixing the panels isnt that bad?.. would try to match the voc, and vmp as much as i can, i intend to also swap out my #10 guage running from the panels to the CC, to a bigger cable


@barezzi, sent u a pm as per your old stuff
@bigrovar hv sent u mail

George_D:


skalamanga,
the solar business is a serious one for people thinking more about positioning themselves for a future of energy independence in a society where public power is getting more epileptic by the day even as more funds are poured into the sector.

in this country as of today, when people talk about power and they think of alternatives to phcn, they think generators. so when you compare solar to generators you may be tempted to think solar is too costly. however that is only true with respect to short term projections. in the long term, the seemingly higher cost of solar pales into insignificance when compared with the huge cost savings of not having to run generators say over a 25yr period.

lets do the maths:
personally i have a 5kva petrol generator and when i was running it almost everyday, a 30ltr can of petrol will be used up in a week and that is talking of a maximum 4 hours everyday. anything more than that and the 30litres will not even last that long. there are people who have generators double that capacity and who run them for twice that lenght of time and its your guess how long a similar volume of fuel will carry them.

but lets concentrate on my own experience:

30ltrs in 1 wk is roughly 10 litres/day.
1month = 300litrs
at the present pump price of 65naira/ltr, it becomes: 300*65= 19,500 naira
in a year that amounts to: 19,500*12 = 234,000 naira
assuming pump price remains the same (which will be virtually impossible), in 25yrs, we'll have spent:
234,000*25 = 5,850,000 naira.

now, that's putting it mildly because i haven't accounted for the cost of servicing and repairs of the generator (i'e oil changes, filter, fuel pump). also, there's no guarantee that any generator no matter how rugged will last that long. averagely you'll have to change that gen once every 5 to 6 yrs depending on the brand.
then how do we factor in the constant inconvenience of noise, smoke, etc? when there is fuel scarcity you must get fuel by all means if you must have electric power so sometimes you end up siphoning fuel from your car's tank into your generator and a few times you may even suck in and swallow some of it!

now, when you compare all this to the advantage solar gives you, the higher costs does not seem so high afterall. the secret to it is starting on a small scale. you start with an inverter and battery bank. after a while you then add solar modules to your system. that way the cost wouldn't be as prohibitive as it appears from the start.

for those who have built houses before, if you were to start from day one and look at the overall cost of building that house from foundation to the last pin, the cost alone would be intimidating but when you learn to take one step at a time, you'll discover that in no time, what you thought impossible has become a reality and so it is with a solar system.

guys,
this post was made by my humble self on the 4th of august 2010 - more than six years to the day (ref. page 2 of this thread). looking back now, I can't help feeling a particular sense of satisfaction that I made the right choice to go solar

so, revisiting that same calculation above and being careful to leave every other parameter intact, it would look like this:

30ltrs in 1 wk is roughly 10 litres/day.
1month = 300litrs
at the present pump price of 145naira/ltr (up from 65 naira per litre), it becomes: 300*145= 43,500 naira (instead of 19,500 naira) spent for fuel alone in a month.
and in a year that amounts to: 43,500*12 = 522,000 naira

and of course if the fuel pump price can increase by about 123% in just six years, we can only just imagine what the next 25yrs will
look like.

bottom line: there is never a wrong time to go solar!

GeorgeD1:
so, revisiting that same calculation above and being careful to leave every other parameter intact, it would look like this:

30ltrs in 1 wk is roughly 10 litres/day.
1month = 300litrs
at the present pump price of 145naira/ltr (up from 65 naira per litre), it becomes: 300*145= 43,500 naira (instead of 19,500 naira) spent for fuel alone in a month.
and in a year that amounts to: 43,500*12 = 522,000 naira

and of course if the fuel pump price can increase by about 123% in just six years, we can only just imagine what the next 25yrs will
look like.

bottom line: there is never a wrong time to go solar!

glad to have u back again sir.

kiekie1 tcx for the sms