₦airaland Forum

freshcvvs:
If the Fulanis or beroms come to your part of the country to kill, rape and occupy your Land in the name of God. Are you going to tap them on the shoulder and say they are justified?

BTW why use the bible to justify the Bible, does that make sense?

Being the judge and the jury at the same time.

ArcToyin:
Well, if such happens you defend yourself now with whatever you have. Killing at war front is not condemned by God while killing without any war is a sin. Any discussion about the scripture and God without drawing reference from the bible is baseless and lame.
am not acting as a judge neither as a juror.

freshcvvs:
Na, you're wrong, was Cannan in war with Israel when they were oppressed, killed and their land stolen? who "sent" Israel to do the killings?
The people Saul went to plummer their land, kill their young and old, raped their wives, were they also in war with Israel or Israel simply went to their land to kill them there, who also sent them?

There are series of situations like that in the bible where it was claimed that God sent them to do the killing. so you see, you can't in the bible say "thou shall not kill", yet send a country to go kill and destroy another country.

You also can't say in the law "thou shall not covet your neighbor's properties, yet command people to go take over other people's land and also forcefully marry off their wives and daughters after killing the men in these cities.

Too numerous to count, i am waiting for an excuse for this since these points already proves that they were never at war at the time these incidence happened.

freshcvvs:
Na, you're wrong, was Cannan in war with Israel when they were oppressed, killed and their land stolen? who "sent" Israel to do the killings?
The people Saul went to plummer their land, kill their young and old, raped their wives, were they also in war with Israel or Israel simply went to their land to kill them there, who also sent them?

There are series of situations like that in the bible where it was claimed that God sent them to do the killing. so you see, you can't in the bible say "thou shall not kill", yet send a country to go kill and destroy another country.

You also can't say in the law "thou shall not covet your neighbor's properties, yet command people to go take over other people's land and also forcefully marry off their wives and daughters after killing the men in these cities.

Too numerous to count, i am waiting for an excuse for this since these points already proves that they were never at war at the time these incidence happened.

ArcToyin:
Get this! If you study the scripture very well, you discover the inhabitant to be invaded usually have pre knowledge of the intruders (if not all, some)eg Jericho. The battles the Israel fought, some are medium of God revenging His enemies. the case of Saul that you cited, it was a medium God used in paying back what the opponents did to the children of Israel on their way to Egypt and that was why God was serious about Saul killing them all. In the passage you brought out your basis from might give to explicit understanding except you have first read through.
You also can't say in the law "thou shall not covet your neighbor's properties, yet command people to go take over other people's land and also forcefully marry off their wives and daughters after killing the men in these cities. responding to this, did you think God didnt punish them for this. example David case with Bathesba.

freshcvvs:
LOL, Bathsheba, so the ones i listed where thousands died doesn't isn't worth showing us the punishment, it's that of David? now tell me, which punishment actually happened to David? the child died, an innocent child, should the child take the punishment for the "father"? how's that a punishment to David? isn't the wages of sin death? shouldn't David be killed instead of the child for his "killing sin"?
Hmm. You can dictate for God on how to punish a person. Taking a life of the baby, could be the absolute penalty for the said action. It wasn't only the baby's life that was taken. 'Sword' did not cease in David's family. He ran from his inferior, he was cursed, abused and was stoned too by people(check 2nd Samuel).
The wages of sin is death, yes. but the 'death' in this context is not physical death but spiritual death.

Tell us what the Canaanites did to the Israelites before they got their land stolen and their people killed.
The cananites served and worshipped idol which God detest.
Also tell us what the "people" Saul destroyed their lands did to the Israelites on their so called way to Israel.
The Israelites were peculiar treasure to God. A nation God loved so much. The nation attacked them on their way to the promised land when they were feeble and not battle ready. Imagine, some body humiliating your so much loving child when the child is innocent and weak to defend himself or herself...

Lastly, why do God who is against murder and killings instruct others to kill for him when he can do it himself since he created "all' in the first place?

ArcToyin:
He is against murder and killing when it is not a battle contest. One can't murder one's neighbor now and say God will not punish one, impossible but when a Soldier at the battlefront kills, it is not a sin to him. Different approach to different situations. God sometimes destroy sinners and sinful nature Himself without the help of the warriors even at the battle front. Haven't you read the story of Sennacherib?

promise10:
Firstly, as a christian, it is fundamental to know that the finished work of christ is the genesis of our walk with God, and learn to stay away from our emotions in order not to rate our emotions above the finished work of man's redemption.

You said this;"Of course, in order to have a conscience void of offence toward God and toward men!"

Please I would like you to explain more on this! I would only support this, in the case of before men alone, which points to self satisfaction in righteousness BEFORE MEN(alone). If I should support "towards God", then it simply means that our conscience can not be void of offence towards God when we hear that God punished his son for our sins on our behalf and believe it. It is unscriptural, because it brings the finished work of christ to no effect.

Are you talking about self satisfaction which adds nothing to our salvation? Or are you saying that it's a requirement for salvation?

Are you saying that restitution makes us void of offence before God? That's to say that restitution makes us guiltless before God. If yes, are you saying that restitution is the payment for sin? If yes? Why then did Jesus die? If restitution clears our offences before God, then is the death of christ on our behalf not something stupid?

If restitution clears our sins before God, then christ's death does not wash away sin.

Mind you, it is christ's death OR restitution!

According to your verse, Jesus said this BEFORE he took the punishment of our sins at the cross on OUR BEHALF. Don't judge "AFTER THE CROSS" with "BEFORE THE CROSS". There is a huge difference!

So right now, God's righteousness doesn't function on laws but on faith, the faith of christ.

Phil 3:9;" And that I may [actually] be found and known as in Him, NOT HAVING ANY [SELF-ACHIEVED] righteousness that can be called MY OWN, based on MY OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW'S DEMANDS(ritualistic uprightness and supposed
right standing with God thus acquired), but possessing that [GENUINE RIGHTEOUSNESS] which comes through faith in Christ (the Anointed One), the [truly] right standing with God, which comes from God by [saving] FAITH.

izzou:
Wow

So restitution is a choice according to you?

Well done. Keep misleading people.

It is a must.

Lets look at it this way.
I steal someone's property. I then beg God for forgiveness of which he forgives me, then if i LIKE, just as you said, i could go and return it or apologise.

Does this makes sense to you? Jesus said if you dont forgive others, he would never forgive you.

Why does Christ need your forgiveness in order to forgive you?

Restitution is a must. Its such a pity our super mega churches dont preach this .

freshcvvs:
You obviously don't know your bible.

What about the man killed for trying to help the ark from falling?

Oga the more you type, the more you tangle yourself.

ArcToyin:
If you know bible very well, explain the reason he was struck dead before i reply u.

freshcvvs:
He he, oga answer. You think I don't know what happened?

Chatting with someone who came second in his church's bible competition while growing up.

ArcToyin:
lolzzzz. second position is more than average. let me teach you bible story small. God was angry with them when they were carrying the ark. the ark was a sacred material that only approved personality can carry or touch it, like the case of altar that only the priest can go into.

freshcvvs:
Like i never knew, even the name of the "priest" that got struck and died is know,
he wasn't a priest.

Now, why should a "specific" person carry the ark if God doesn't want to be helped?
Because it is a sacred object. only selected and holy person usually a priest can carry it
he should have just allowed the ark to float in the air to where-ever he wanted it to float to without any man's help.
i don't know if you did science and if you know the law of gravitational. aside that, there wasn't any need that such since there was no difficulty in carrying it except with rules

Lastly, if he never wanted anyone to help him, why did he allow humans to build that same ark or did you think the ark fell from the sky?
Lolzzz. Can't a potter mold anything he likes? Are you not having a room to do what you like, to choose what you like or love whom you like?
and why did he allow that same ark to be captured by the philistines during the war?
May be you read the passage thoroughly so that you stopped bring half baked knowledge. Wasn't not the sin of the son of the priest(Eli), their scoundrel that provoked Him. 1 Sam chapter 2 to ...

All these are by-the-way though.
cause they are not factual.

Now back to our convo, if God is against killing, why did he strike that man dead for just trying to stop the ark from falling?
If you read the scripture very well, you understand that God gave incessant warning about going near holy object when you are not sanctified.
funny enough, the man still helped the help from falling, yet got killed afterward. is that justice?
That was His standard. Besides the scenario surrounding the ark then was too pissing. All their activities then wasn't pleasing to Him. The fact they helped the ark doesn't mean God will be happy with that. The fact that I sweep His house or do any work toward His name doesn't mean it will be pleasing to Him except with Holiness, righteousness, humility and grace.

Double standard god innit?
Watch your tongue towards the Almighty God- thou shall not kill, yet you kill for frivolous excuses.

ArcToyin:
he wasn't a priest.

Because it is a sacred object. only selected and holy person usually a priest can carry it
he should have just allowed the ark to float in the air to where-ever he wanted it to float to without any man's help.
i don't know if you did science and if you know the law of gravitational. aside that, there wasn't any need that such since there was no difficulty in carrying it except with rules

Watch your tongue towards the Almighty God

Your thinking though but you are too wrong about it.

freshcvvs:
You obviously know nothing about the bible for saying the priest that got struck for trying to hold the ark from falling was no priest.
His name is Uzzah the levite (Levite are the chosen tribe for priestly obligations in Israel).
You scold yet you are out of point. If you know bible very well as, are levites equal to priest. They are have different responsibility and different rule bind them.

2 Samuel 6:1-7
Even the place u qouted can see a place where uzzah was referred to as a Levite

I should watch my tongue against your own version of God? the God you don't even know nor understand?
how dear you say i dont know and understand God?
Most Black men and dead brain cells are like 5 & 6
has it got to the level of abuse. Well, i see you as a natural man yet to be born of God and i am recommending Him for you.


I am done with you. next time, understand the religion or whatever you're practicing before trying to come out to talk about it. you are just too ignorant to engage in anything logical or reasonable.
and you thought you were right with all your words? sincerely, you are just confusing yourself. You really need Jesus.

freshcvvs:
You obviously know nothing about the bible for saying the priest that got struck for trying to hold the ark from falling was no priest.
His name is Uzzah the levite (Levite are the chosen tribe for priestly obligations in Israel). :

2 Samuel 6:1-7
Where did you see it that explain Uzzah to be a Levite. besides, does the role of a Levite equal to the role of a Priest?

I should watch my tongue against your own version of God? the God you don't even know nor understand?
see conclusion here.Who told you i dont know Him and Understand Him? As if you know me.
Most Black men and dead brain cells are like 5 & 6
Na u know oo.

I am done with you. next time, understand the religion or whatever you're practicing before trying to come out to talk about it. you are just too ignorant to engage in anything logical or reasonable.
see you! sincerely, you are the one confusing yourself. You claim to know and you know less.

freshcvvs:
LOL.. Chai, you can't school a chalk

Jeel:
Restitution basically is paying for your wrongs.

So as a Christian today should we restitute?

Pls support your stand with cogent reasons and scriptures if possible. Thank you!

oaroloye:
[bARE YOU INSANE?][/b]

My name is Olatunde Aroloye. I am a Medical Laboratory Supervisor at the Obafemi Awolowo University Health Centre, in Ile-Ife, Osun State.

I am a Born Again, Full-Gospel, Pentecostal Christian of 35 years standing. In the fifth year of my Conversion, I achieved Spiritual Breakthroughs which required me to leave Organized Christianity for ever.

However, I had no wherewithal to begin to fully comprehend what I had gotten into, until seen years hence, when I encountered Carlos Castaneda's NAGUALISM. I thought then, that I had understood everything I needed to know, but then, two years on, I discovered L. Ron Hubbard's SCIENTOLOGY.

I thought that I could be sure that there was nothing left to learn- though I was still acquiring the entirety of their Teachings- them not being readily available in Nigeria, to this day- but about fifteen years after my liberty from Organized Christianity, I found THE CELESTINE PROPHECY.

Each of these Teachings fills in the blanks of Bible Religion.

They all account for why It was delivered as It did, why Its various successes "worked," and WHY BIBLE RELIGION HAS ULTIMATELY FAILED.

All the World's Religions FAIL to reach God, because, if they were not originally CREATED by THE SATAN COLLECTIVE ENTITY, then they were CORRUPTED by him.

I believe that THE ONLY CORRECT SOLUTION is to ELIMINATE EVERYTHING that we don't NEED, and focus on what is USEFUL in enabling us to VERIFY THE CLAIMS OF RELIGIONS IN GENERAL, and BIBLE RELIGION in particular.

Anything else is an irrational and irresponsible waste of our limited time on Earth.



. EXODUS 22:1-6.

"If a man shall steal an ox,
or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it;
he shall restore five oxen for an ox,
and four sheep for a sheep.
"If a thief be found breaking up,
and be smitten that he die,
there shall no blood be shed for him.
3. "If the Sun be risen upon him,
there shall be blood shed for him;
for he should make full restitution;
if he have nothing,
then he shall be sold for his theft.
4. "If the theft be certainly
found in his hand alive,
whether it be ox, or ass, or sheep;
he shall restore double.
5. "If a man shall cause
a field or vineyard to be eaten,
and shall put in his beast,
and shall feed
in another man's field;
of the best of his own field,
and of the best of his own vineyard,
shall he make restitution.
6. "If fire break out,
and catch in thorns,
so that the stacks of corn,
or the standing corn,
or the field,
be consumed therewith;
he that kindled the fire
shall surely make restitution."

IT IS BLASPHEMY TO SAY THAT RESTITUTION IS PAYING FOR ONE'S SINS!

Only the BLOOD of The ATONEMENT can DO that!

. LEVITICUS 17:11.

11. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
and I have given it to you upon The Altar
to make an Atonement for your Souls:
for it is the blood that maketh
an Atonement for the Soul."

SO YOU CAN STOP PRETENDING TO BE OF OUR RELIGION, THANK YOU.

BUT THERE IS NO ATONEMENT FOR THOSE WHO COMMIT SINS DELIBERATELY!

. NUMBERS 15:27-31.

27. "And if any Soul Sin through ignorance,
then he shall bring a she goat
of the first year for a Sin Offering.
28. And the priest shall make an Atonement
for the Soul that Sinneth Ignorantly,
when he Sinneth by Ignorance
before The LORD,
to make an Atonement for him;
and it shall be forgiven him.
29. "Ye shall have One Law
for him that Sinneth through Ignorance,
both for him that is born
among the Children of Israel,
and for the Stranger that sojourneth
among them.
30. "But the Soul
that doeth ought presumptuously,
whether he be born in the land,
or a Stranger,
the same Reproacheth The LORD;
and that Soul shall be cut off
from among his people.
31. "Because he hath despised
The Word of The LORD,
and hath broken His Commandment,
that Soul shall utterly be cut off;
his Iniquity shall be upon him."



YAHSHUA SAID that if we have offended a Brethren, we should fix it with them, before our next talk with God.

. MATTHEW 5:21-26.

21. "Ye have heard that it was said
by them of Old Time,

'THOU SHALT NOT KILL;'
and
'WHOSOEVER SHALL KILL
SHALL BE IN DANGER
OF THE JUDGEMENT:

22. "But I say unto you,

'THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY
WITH HIS BROTHER
WITHOUT A CAUSE
SHALL BE IN DANGER
OF THE JUDGMENT:

and whosoever shall say
to his brother,

'RACA,'

shall be in Danger of the Council:
but whosoever shall say,

"THOU FOOL,"

shall be in Danger of Hell Fire.'

23. "Therefore if thou
bring thy Gift to the Altar,
and there rememberest
that thy Brother
hath ought against thee;
24. "Leave there thy Gift
before the Altar,
and go thy way;
first be reconciled to thy Brother,
and then come and offer thy Gift.
25. "Agree with thine Adversary quickly,
whiles thou art in the way with him;
lest at any time the Adversary
deliver thee to the judge,
and the Judge deliver thee
to the Officer,
and thou be cast into Prison.
26. "Verily I say unto thee,

"THOU SHALT BY NO MEANS
COME OUT THENCE,
TILL THOU HAST PAID
THE UTTERMOST FARTHING.' "



WHY SHOULD WE? DID YOU?

Any Sin is a violation of at least these three Commandments of God:

. DEUTERONOMY 30:19-20.

19. I call Heaven and Earth to record
this day against you,
that I have set before you
Life and Death,
Blessing and Cursing:
therefore Choose Life,
that both thou
and thy seed may live:
20. That thou mayest love
The LORD thy God,
and that thou mayest obey His Voice,
and that thou mayest cleave unto Him:
for He is thy Life,
and the Length of thy days:
that thou mayest dwell in the land
which The LORD sware unto thy fathers,
to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob,
to give them.

. DEUTERONOMY 6:4-9.

4. Hear, O Israel:
The LORD our God is one LORD:
5. And thou shalt love
The LORD thy God
with all thine Heart,
and with all thy Soul,
and with all thy might.
6. And these Words,
which I Command thee this day,
shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach Them
diligently unto thy children,
and shalt talk of Them
when thou sittest in thine house,
and when thou walkest by the way,
and when thou liest down,
and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind Them
for a sign upon thine hand,
and they shall be as frontlets
between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write Them
upon the posts of thy house,
and on thy gates.

. LEVITICUS 19:17-18.

17. "Thou shalt not hate
thy Brother in thine heart:
thou shalt in any wise
rebuke thy Neighbour,
and not suffer Sin upon him.
18. "Thou shalt not avenge,
nor bear any grudge
against the Children of thy People,
but thou shalt Love thy Neighbour
as thyself:
I (am) The LORD."

ANY ONE OF THESE THREE COMMANDMENTS WOULD END SIN.

If It were followed.

If one loved their Neighbour as themselves, they would ATTAIN HOLINESS, and STAY HOLY, in order to PROTECT ONE'S NEIGHBOURS.

"LOVE" MEANS, "THE KEEPING OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS.

False Christian Churches do not went their members to KNOW that.

HYPOCRITES COMPLAIN about how hard it supposedly is to keep The Commandments of God!

That is a LIE.

Keeping God's Commandments is EASY, when JUST ONE Commandment is kept FIRST:

"CHOOSE LIFE."

All other advice on how to "LOVE GOD," "SERVE GOD," "HEAR GOD, and "SERVE GOD" that does not mention THIS, is a TOTAL WASTE OF YOUR TIME: without KEEPING this one Commandment, you CAN NOT SUCCEED.

Therefore, people follow Ministries for 5, 10, 20, 50 years, TRYING TO BECOME BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS.

It will NEVER happen, because they do not have THE KEY.

"CHOOSE LIFE."

[color=#ffffff].[/color] MATTHEW 7:12-29.

12. "Therefore all things
whatsoever ye would
that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them:
for this is The Law and The Prophets.
13. "Enter ye in at The Strait Gate:
for wide is the Gate,
and broad is the way,
that leadeth to Destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:
14. "Because strait is the Gate,
and narrow is The Way,
which leadeth unto Life,
and few there be that find it.
15. "Beware of False Prophets,
which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. "Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Do men gather grapes of thorns,
or figs of thistles?
17. "Even so every Good Tree
bringeth forth Good Fruit;
but a Corrupt Tree
bringeth forth Evil Fruit.
18. "A Good Tree cannot
bring forth Evil Fruit,
neither can a Corrupt Tree
bring forth Good Fruit.
19. "Every tree that
bringeth not forth Good Fruit
is hewn down,
and cast into the Fire.
20 Wherefore by their Fruits
ye shall know them.
21. "Not every one
that saith unto me,
'Lord, Lord,' shall enter into
The Kingdom of Heaven;
but He that doeth
The Will of my Father
Which is in Heaven.
22 Many will say to me
in That Day,

'LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT
PROPHESIED IN THY NAME?
AND IN THY NAME
HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS?
AND IN THY NAME
DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?'

23. "And then will I profess unto them,

'I NEVER KNEW YOU:
DEPART FROM ME,
YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.'

24. "Therefore whosoever heareth
These Sayings of mine,
and doeth Them,
I will liken him unto a Wise Man,
which built his house upon a rock:
25. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that house;
and it fell not:
for it was founded upon a rock.
26 . "And every one that heareth
These Sayings of mine,
and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a Foolish Man,
which built his house upon the sand:
27. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that house;
and it fell:
and great was the fall of it."
28. And it came to pass,
when Jesus had ended these Sayings,
the people were astonished
at his Doctrine:
29. For He taught them
as one having authority,
and not as the scribes.

RESTITUTION IS ABOUT REPAIRING THE DAMAGE YOU CAUSED TO AN. INNOCENT PARTY YOU DAMAGED.

One of the WORST EXPERIENCES of their LIFE is transformed into A POSITIVE.

The Day they made 100%, 300%, 400% Profit on supposed LOSS!

A DANGEROUS PERSON, an ENEMY, turned over a NEW LEAF, and became a CONTRIBUTOR to Society!

A person who has REPENTED is SORRY for their SINS.

These things are caused SINS, not "WRONGS," not "MISSING GOD," nor any other JESUIT EUPHEMISM.

They are ACTS OF TREASON against GOD.

A person who has "REPENTED," AGREES that they DESERVE to go to HELL.

They do not STOP Sinning because they are AFRAID OF THE PENALTY, they stop Sinning because they AGREE that SINNING is WICKEDNESS.

A person who does not WANT to REFURBISH their VICTIMS has NEVER REPENTED at all!

. EXODUS 21:18-19.

18. "And if men strive together,
and one smite another with a stone,
or with his fist,
and he die not,
but keepeth his bed:
19. "If he rise again,
and walk abroad
upon his staff,
then shall he
that smote him be quit:
only he shall pay
for the loss of his time,
and shall cause him
to be thoroughly healed."

A PERON WHO MURDERS ANOTHER MUST RESURRECT THEIR VICTIM FROM THE DEAD- AND COMPENSATE HIM FOR THE LOSS OF THEIR TIME.

Naturally, murderers are not the most full-of-faith.

They should therefore FIND A HOLY MAN, and have HIM fix what THEY BROKE.

Their offense being DOWNGRADED from TERMINATION to INJURY, they STILL have to COMPENSATE their LOST TIME.

I met an ARMED ROBBER who had been in the notorious ISHOLA OYENUSI GANG.

EVANGELIST KAYODE WILLIAMS.

He had a nephew who was UNHEALED of a serious EYE AILMENT.

He had not Healed him.

He did not know how.

Yet he posed as a FULL GOSPEL EVANGELIST.

NO WAY could he have gone across the WESTERN REGION resurrecting those whom he had helped kill from the dead. Nor would he have been expected to. Nor could his own supposed converts have been told to RESTITITE ALL THEIR OWN VICTIMS.

Criminal Sinners should not be made CELEBRITIES, while their VICTIMS still SUFFER- and THEY do NOTHING about it.

HYPOCRITES harp on the possibility that a person who committed CHILD RAPE, and REPENTED would go to Heaven with his victims.

The Reality is that RAPE/MURDER VICTIMS are LESS LIKELY to go to Heaven than the people who put them there. If they were deemed worthy to enter Heaven, they would no longer be the person that committed those INIQUITIES- and the achievement of THAT feat is ENORMOUSLY PAINFUL beyond what Earthly Punishments can do.

A Sinner must achieve TOTAL RECALL before they can enter the AfterLife: if there is ANY memory that they fail to show THE ANGEL OF GOD that DETERMINES AfterLife Fitness, their SOUL BODY is DESTROYED IMMEDIATELY.

Only FOOLS wait until they DIE to SEE if they can DO that.

Therefore, Repentant Sinners will have RELIVED ALL THEIR SINS, SEVERAL TIMES, to UNDO THEIR EFFECTS on their. MIND and SOUL BODY. This is not a pleasant experience. The DEPTH of your FAILURE as Human Being is EMPHASIZED IN DETAIL, until there is no PRIDE, and .no PLEASURE in what you have done, NOR WILLINGNESS to REPEAT THE SAME left.

This has never been taught in PROTESTANT Christianity at all.

Jeel:
Tell me why I should listen to you when you make a dubious statement like this:

"I do not limit my Knowledge to The Bible, but have augmented my Faith with compatible data from L. Ron Hubbard's SCIENTOLOGY, Carlos Castaneda's NAGUALISM, and James Redfield's CELESTINE PROPHECY"