₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
We know that nature desires equilibrium. If a particle change state, it is either in an unstable equilibrium or an external force tipped its balance. I assume the singularity had been in some form of equilibrium for only God know how long until the b bang.

if the particle had been in an unstable equillibrium, it suggest a spontaneous creation of the particles still by an external force.

Either way, external forces to the singularity initiated the Big bang.

Since the external force is not part of the singularity, it may not obey the known laws of Physics and so, we Theists will say that it is in the rhelm of God.

lordnicklaus:
HI bro! The quantum principle can only be accounted for in an already created universe and not a universe in its pre-creation state. Scientists were not around during the creation of the universe and so, can not entirely deduce if the quantum dimension was functional before the creation of the universe. Since it was discovered in an already established universe, we can rightly say that the quantum principle can only be verified in a universe already in motion.

shadeyinka:
We can edit or write softwares why? because we wrote them as an assemblage of sequence of instructions acting on data. That is we are the creator of the life of the computer.

Can a computer edit or write its own operating system? Can a computer prove that it is not just an electrical hardware connected to electricity? We are like a computer with an artificial intelligence running on steroids.

Don't forget that the language and the nature of man and computers are vastly different. A computer can only reason in terms of sequences of electrical pulses.


The possibility is real and that is what Theists have been asserting over a long time without any "scientific proof". We call it the Spirit Rhelm (maybe science will give it another name defined by some complex mathematics) of which God is the Head.

Its amazing that some cultures of old without any telescope discovered at least 5-7 planets. Honestly, this still baffles me. How did they do it? Even if they can see some planets, why don't they call it stars. Why name them after their gods (Mars, Venus,Jupiter..). Did they arrive at the conclusion by faith or by observation or by revelation?

Correctness should not only be measured by scientific yardstick. Don't you think so?

lordnicklaus:
Hey buddy. God is not confined to time and space. He exists in a dimension outside of time. For there to be cause and effect, time should be a functional factor. And for God to create the universe, He must exist outside the universe which is constrained to cause and effect under the workings of time and motion and as such, He cannot be created. By setting the multiverse in motion, He had created time and so there can be cause and effect.

shadeyinka:
But can space interact with matter. Space doesn't even interact with electromagnetic energy or even gravity. It looks like space is invariable whether from the classical or quantum point of view. Space is emptiness. No particles, No energy, Nothing!

Since zero as a number exists, then maybe space is just like zero!

In mathematics, anything is possible. We can actually dimension/divide a space into as many parts as we want. ..a form of compartmentalization but as per BREAKING space, I don't know.

Theoretically yes but how about practically? Pick a dying star, by how much percent in volume can it in reality condense?

I will submit that the current physical laws came into existence at the point of the Big bang. before that time however, another different laws of physics (if you like) was in operation. Since time is relative, it makes sense only in the physical rhelm to start from the big bang but it doesnt mean that time doesn't exist before the bang.

Its about the frame of reference. Theist will call before b bang the Creator Factor. of couse Atheist dont want to hear about hte creator..to them, every thing must be force to start at the b bang.

shadeyinka:
My question is would such have a zero dimension. If a singularity is in space, it must occupy somewhere.

You know sometime I feel that we scientists are over stretching the limit of common sense because we see some abstract mathematical forecast.

Density=Mass per unit volume. looking at the size of an average sized star, how much can it collapse upon itself to shrink that its density tends to infinity? As a student, we do what our teaches expect us to do.

I understand! any time we want to create the un imaginable we bring in the almighty quantum solution.

shadeyinka:
I have attempted to view venus before without a telescope and of course with a guide, what you see is just like another star. There was no way i could have come to an independent conclusion that what i was seeing was a Planet. Some people even suggests that extraterrestrials taught the ancients about those planets.

Can nature be a programmer? Is it possible to juggle the alphanumeric letters together and statistically obtain a C++ program to write "Hello World"?

If Theists are believing in an impossibility of an uncreated God existing, Atheist are equally guilty of believing that a code can write itself. If you look at the magnitude of the code behind the universe, it is daunting not to say the least.

Check out the mathematical harmony and assemblage of an atom, then proceed until you obtain the stars, galaxies, life , consciousness...No! it is too much a complex code.

raphieMontella:
the word only which u used is strong o...
I believe our universe started from the black hole of another universe..
And quantum fluctuations gave rise to the virtual particles which expanded...i dnt think time started with our universe

shadeyinka:
Break this down a little please especially the time factor.

OgundeleT:
if there is a creature nobody will have to tell anybody, everybody will see it and there will be no different version of it. what we call mystery today only need time to unravel, if our generation cant, the generation coming may

raphieMontella:
the word only which u used is strong o...
I believe our universe started from the black hole of another universe..
And quantum fluctuations gave rise to the virtual particles which expanded...i dnt think time started with our universe

shadeyinka:
No! My God doesn't put anyone in hell because of worship. We go to hell because of our choices and in extension our deeds.

Let me explain!
-God created everything as a garden for his own enjoyment.
-He made Man as a special creation not just to head his physical creations but to be His own special own (next to Him in spiritual rank)
-He gave man a Free will to choose either to be Aligned to Him and His kingdom or Antagonist.(Useful or Not Useful)
-Hell was not designed for humans: It is Gods Refuse Bin/Dump for errant Spirits( Satan, Fallen Angels, Demon..)
-Since Man is principally a Spirit: those who choose to Oppose His kingdom in Alignment with Satan are equally discarded in Gods Refuse Bin
-Since Man through Adam inherited a corrupt spiritual DNA which makes them prone to sin, God prepared a sacrificial substitute for them. For just as there are Physical laws, there are spiritual laws. (Every spirit who violates Gods instructions must be discarded!)
-Its is a choice you make to Appropriate Gods sacrifice for your Atonement

- I know you know this: John3:16

-Being Discarded in Gods Refuse Bin is what is known as : Second Death Rev21:8

-In the Spirit Rhelm unfortunately just like in Dreams, TIME doesn't EXIST.

If you bought an Expensive Self Aware and Conscious PHONE for say for N26 million naira and the Phone Blatantly say he doesn't feel like being used by YOU to make calls, text, browse etc. What will you do?
Would you not after your patience is exhausted, throw it into the refuse dump (after doing all to persuade and rectify the problem) and probably replace it with a cheap TECHNO Phone?
Would it be morally wrong for you to destroy this expensive Phone of Yours?

I guess God is using this medium to call you back home to Him: What will you loose by Aligning Yourself with Gods will? What can you loose?

If Theists are wrong, what do they loose?
BUT
If Atheists are wrong......

I am still open for further questions.

lordnicklaus:
Would it be possible for a new universe to arise from an area of gravitational singularity?

raphieMontella:
its possible...
Einstein's gravitational singularity is based on general relativity..and general relativity doesnt necessarily govern quantum particles..
I believe its possible#new universe arising at the other side..

lordnicklaus:
Time should have ended with the crunching of a pre-existent universe which would become static.

raphieMontella:
the big crunch?
Thats also possible...but the big crunch makes the universe infinite and definitely needing not a creator...

lordnicklaus:
Then what are the odds of this current multiverse becoming an area of gravitational singularity?

lordnicklaus:
Putting a creator out of the picture doesn't entirely show rationaity or outright certainty of the universe's infiniteness. Also when taking an event such as "the big crunch" into consideration, one would also have to consider factors such as "dark matter" and "the god particle" which are quite abundant and also prove supplementary to our sphere and making it quite impossible for a crunch to occur.

raphieMontella:
black holes form in space in this universe...
Singularities are in black holes...
In the multiverse view of the cosmos..
Universes spring up sporadically.
Dont really know how it works in the multiverse view...but the number of universes are ''infinite''

lordnicklaus:
Would that account for parallel universes?

If that is so, then there are dimensions beyond this present multiversal dimension. There is a higher sphere which is beyond "time and space" and God would exist in such an unreachable sphere and thus He would not be subject to the principle of "cause and effect" and it is this dimension that I deem "infinitesimal". Time and motion are the major dimensions of space. All other quantities such as Heat, Entropy, Enthalpy, Kinetics, Light and its rectilinear propagation, Elasticity and quantum fluctuations are dependent of these two fundamental quantities. So, all sub-physical mechanisms which work according to the listed quantities can only be verified in a universe possessing the two fundamental quantities

raphieMontella:
i do not know much on parallel universes

hmm...@bolded...specifiaclly quantum fluctuations..
Then why do u now believe a universe cannot arise unaided if the newtons' first law has only been tested in ''SPACE-TIME''..
Catch the drift?

lordnicklaus:
Sure! Same here though I only know such in Sci-Fi


For other quantities to become reality, the universe would first have to be set in motion.

malvisguy212:
weldon bro, I love the way you handle this atheists here. What this atheists are saying is " if we disobeyed God, is God fault". This is foolishness, is like your father set RULE for you to obey and be a Good son, but when you break this rule, you blame your dad ? Good lord!!!

lordnicklaus:
The infinitesimal is a dimension beyond measured quantities. Since time is calculated, it is not within infinitesimal.

ValentineMary:
Well I know nature did a good job but for us to know if it could have done a better job, we need 2 universes to compare. But unfortunately we have only one which we havd adapted to so we can't know if nature would have done a better job.

As for the computer codes I can compare between 2 jobs who the better is.

ValentineMary:
This is one mistake I feel we often make. From what I know space did not exist outside the singularity before the big bang.

ValentineMary:
Gravity can actually interfer with spacd that's why we have space time curvature. So space is not exactly nothing in general relativity.

ValentineMary:
I believe the laws of mathemtics are absolute as said by Sir Isaac Newton. For example, mathematics proved that there are particles that exist in multi dimensional space decades before string theory was discovred. Also mathematics proved that anti matter exist a year before it was discovered. So let us be patient with physics because it seems math is faster.



We have to wait billions of years to find out but we can find out now if we apply mathematics to it.

ValentineMary:
It depends on what u call time. As for me, I believe in a kind of cteator force but I usually ask "What is this force" not who is it. Because I doubt the possibility of it being an animate force.

Creator Force

raphieMontella:
u mean the sumerians?

raphieMontella:
we both believe time didnt start with out universe...a common ground tho..

raphieMontella:
IOW u mean the virtual particles arise by an external force?#aided

raphieMontella:
i hold the view that the virtual pairs which arose and created this universe were from the black hole of another universe..

raphieMontella:
Bt as for the bang(expansion)..inflation theoryy has taken care of that...

raphieMontella:
what if the energy killed of this god?
Such immense energy?
To me..this universe doesnt seem planned!
Maybe an accident from experiments of Gods...or just normal natural means or the multiverse...
But if i were to believe in an external hand..i'd place my bet on Gods..not God..

raphieMontella:
To me..this universe doesnt seem planned!
Maybe an accident from experiments of Gods...or just normal natural means or the multiverse...

But if i were to believe in an external hand..i'd place my bet on Gods..not God..

AnonyNymous:
Yes, just like the M-theory which I support might shatter the basis of 3-dimensional space brought to our knowledge by classical Newtonian physics. And explain things like memories being transported by water, reincarnation, etc
The problem is, if you choose to call the unknown 'god' fine. But then when you are trying to ascribe humanoid characteristics and behaviours to 'god' which we already called 'the unknown' I have a problem with you.

shadeyinka:
Do you think space can make sense outside the classical 3D definition? Since space is defined by an un-occupied volume.

Should space not be a real rather than a concept(abstract)?

Its just my thoughts

shadeyinka:
Is this statement not misleading? Even your NL name says it all...that you hate God.