₦airaland Forum

Rilwayne001:
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

This does not mean that the baby conceived was iniquitous. For "he that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."(James. 4:17). A baby knows nothing with regards to wrong or right.

Since Jesus allegedly cane to die for this sin that brought death upon us, why are we still dying?

Jesus died to set us free from the power of sin and its consequences. Even though we die now believing in Jesus, we will live again in a perfect world where there is no death. So we are not really afraid of death.

Salvation is of two phases: from sin, and from the presence of sin. We have been saved from sin(Amen). One day, we will be saved from the presence of sin and its effect.

gaelllic:
Child, child, child.

The OP is saying, basically

Where is the empirical evidence of your belief?

I say, basically (and if you were as smart as you think you are I'd not have to explain it.)

Where is the empirical evidence for yours?

Now common sense would dictate that the Loving God would place in mens' hearts the means to know Him and to recognize Him.

And He does. For each of us.

Men who deny this are simply liars.
Look at your own self, for example.
You flee from the very test you set for others.

This marks you. As dishonest.

As well as deranged.

You can open a thread specifically for this and I can come and answer your questions there. I won't let you use that as a means to avoid the OP. Answer the subject of the thread, not changing the topic.

The emboldened seems to hint at the idea that you don't even understand the question I asked...... I'd rather take it as you being dishonest.

DoctorAlien:
Those who do not ask ignorant questions, actually.

what are ignorant questions?Give an example and tell why one who ask such is ignorant.ignorant of what?

peacesamuel94:
Your ability to Distinguish God's personality from any other, solely depends on the depth of your relationship with him.
And as funny as it may sound, I will say that being rational alone is not enough to do this, it also involves being spiritual. You can't discover God by employing scientific methods it will surely fail.

Even Among humans, there is a level your relationship with someone gets to, that it becomes next to impossible to be deceived by anyone that tries to impersonate that person.

Eventually it all falls back on the strength of your relationship with Him.

This being you're having a relationship with could easily have been the Devil masquerading as God. How would you know? That's the question.

shadeyinka:
How can a person authenticate God?

It is a good question. I only wish you asked from a different frame of reference (you being an atheist) then, we could have had practical discussions which would not make any sense to you.

So, back to your question:
1. We can only authenticate God when He reveals Himself (communicate and introduce Himself) AND by experience that comes from a relationship.

We're back to square one. HOW do you know that the being revealing himself and asking to have a relationship with you is indeed WHO HE CLAIMED TO BE? Wasn't this the question I asked? You guys need to read the OP all over again.

2. The first one is clear: like when God introduce Himself to Moses, " I am the God of your Father's, Abraham, Isaac..."

He could have been the Devil masquerading as God? How could Abraham or Moses have known? How did they know he wasn't lying?

3. The second is by relationship and that comes only first through knowledge from your parents, pastors, prophets etc AND then you experience the God which "they" spoke about in a personal way that you can say "This is My God".

Ditto

4. It is possible to Authenticate God in a Personal sense and yet find it difficult for specific day to day affairs because we live in a very noisy world AND we are most time more carnal than spiritual.

The major problem of Christians is not usually about the general personal authentication of God (If you are Truely Born Again, you know Him) it is about the general day tobday specifics. The environment is entirely uncondusive to spirituality so, we can be confused.

See? You HAVEN'T answered my question.

DoctorAlien:
This does not mean that the baby conceived was iniquitous.

Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

Allegedly Adam and Eve were unclean and this^ verse is asking how the unclean Adam and eve could have given birth to a clean baby. Answer it

For "he that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."(James. 4:17).
A baby knows nothing with regards to wrong or right.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Jesus died to set us free from the power of sin and its consequences.

What did Moses and other prophets before the Bible came to do?

Even though we die now believing in Jesus, we will live again in a perfect world where there is no death.

What about those before Jesus came and those that never heard of Jesus, for example, Abel that was killed by Cain in the Bible?

So we are not really afraid of death.
Salvation is of two phases: from sin, and from the presence of sin. We have been saved from sin(Amen). One day, we will be saved from the presence of sin and its effect.

joyContraMundum:
This being you're having a relationship with could easily have been the Devil masquerading as God. How would you know? That's the question.

Of course, That's why I initially talked about the role spirituality plays, obviously, you can't distinguish God from Satan using scientific procedures.
The methods we employ to do this, won't make any sense to you, so there's no need going further.

peacesamuel94:
Of course, That's why I initially talked about the role spirituality plays, obviously, you can't distinguish God from Satan using scientific procedures.
The methods we employ to do this, won't make any sense to you, so there's no need going further.

lol.....

joyContraMundum:
lol.....

what's funny?

Rilwayne001:
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

Allegedly Adam and Eve were unclean and this^ verse is asking how the unclean Adam and eve could have given birth to a clean baby. Answer it

Who called Adam and Eve unclean? Jesus came through a woman too. He was not unclean. Stop saying what you think the Bible says.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

What did Moses and other prophets before the Bible came to do?

What about those before Jesus came and those that never heard of Jesus, for example, Abel that was killed by Cain in the Bible?

Jesus is the GOD of the old testament. And as far as all the OT patriarchs obeyed GOD carefully, they looked forward to the coming Redeemer(who became Jesus) who would take away their sins and resurrect them to eternal glory.

DoctorAlien:
Ancient Israel was theocratic i.e GOD was their King. Kings often led their people to war then to expand their territories/acquire land. GOD led the children of Israel to wars against those nations and cities because it was time for judgment to be meted on them, and also because GOD was settling them in the land which He promised to their fathers.

In other words, there were indeed times when God went back on his word/commandment of "Thou shalt not kill", which effectively nullifies your citing of that commandment as the reason why God will never ask you to kill. Now that it's been demonstrated that the point is void, what will you do? Answer my question honestly? Or keep confusing yourself with the dishonesty born out of the desperate desire to defend your fanatical deluded faith?

Answer my question now.

DoctorAlien:
Who called Adam and Eve unclean?

Are you asking me? We're they really clean The Bible made it clear that it was Adam that brought sin into the world and through that, Adam offspring got polluted from it, are you denying this?

Jesus came through a woman too. He was not unclean. Stop saying what you think the Bible says.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Who can bring a clean thing out of an clean?.... Either produce a clean person from an unclean one: it is not to be expected that one, perfectly free from sin, should be generated by, or brought out of, one that is defiled with it; which is the case of all men; [b] the first man, though made upright, sinned, and by sinning defiled himself, and all human nature in him: and so those that immediately descended from him were polluted likewise, and so on in all generations, every man being conceived and shaped in iniquity; so that it is not possible that man that is born of a woman, sinful and unclean, should be clean himself, or be free from sin; by which it is manifest, that the sinfulness of human nature is unavoidable; it is natural and necessary, and cannot be otherwise, such being the case and circumstances of immediate parents, from whom men descend; and that this is the case of all men that come into the world by ordinary and natural generation; there is none righteous or pure from sin: no,not one; and things being so, Job thought it hard that he should be singled out, and so severely chastised, when the sinfulness of nature was from and by his birth, and was natural and unavoidable, and when there was not a single person on earth free from it. [/b]
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/job/14-4.htm

So what did the Bible say?

Jesus is the GOD of the old testament.

And as far as all the OT patriarchs obeyed GOD carefully, they looked forward to the coming Redeemer(who became Jesus) who would take away their sins and resurrect them to eternal glory.

How did Abel look forward to the coming of the Redeemer?

Rilwayne001:
Are you asking me? We're they really clean The Bible made it clear that it was Adam reacted soon that brought sin into the world and through that, Adam offspring got polluted from it, are you denying this?

Okay.

joyContraMundum:
We're back to square one. HOW do you know that the being revealing himself and asking to have a relationship with you is indeed WHO HE CLAIMED TO BE? Wasn't this the question I asked? You guys need to read the OP all over again.


He could have been the Devil masquerading as God? How could Abraham or Moses have known? How did they know he wasn't lying?

Ditto

See? You HAVEN'T answered my question.

I think I have.
There is always a Trust factor and a Character factor which every human by intuition has.

A human being is also a spirit being. There is a kind of knowing which is not Physically Founded. It is called the voice of your spirit.

A mundane illustration is this;
How did you know that the Man and Woman who claimed to be your biological Parents are indeed your parents.
You and I know that photographs can be arranged. The only conclusive proof is a DNA test. Now, in the whole world, how many children had questioned the paternity of their parents through the use of DNA?

So you see my friend, your questions have been answered. The only problem is that I think you require a Physical DNA/other tests to proof the authenticity of God.


Come to think of it, if a monkey raised me, I would for some time assume their paternity but time will show that we are very different and so they are impostors.

However, if my surrogate parents were human, there would be now way of me knowing except we do a DNA test.

A human being is related to God than to evil!

Interestingly, for the spiritual, we have just two families of spirits the Good (where the same God you despise Heads) and the Malevolent. The malevolent spirits could be feared, revered and worshipped depending on what a human desires. Its a free world.

DoctorAlien:
To the question about how Abraham was able to discern GOD's voice:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." Jn. 10:27

It also helps to understand that it was Christ who commanded Abraham to sacrifice his only son to Him(to test how loyal Abraham could be to Him.)

Abraham was also sober and vigilant as 1 Pet. 5:8 instructs, and thus could quickly discern commands from GOD and those not from Him.

I find it interesting when people reference this particular story.

According to the Bible and even the Koran, Satan has powers, angels have powers, and others as well. Wouldn't that make them gods, at least from our measly human point of view?

Who's to say Satan didn't instruct Abraham to kill his own son, and an the angel was sent to save the boy from his idiot father? Perhaps the test was to see if Abraham could actually tell the difference if he was given a command from someone other than God, one he knew was wrong.

Is this life some big lab experiment or perhaps a power struggle between rival siblings vying for love and acceptance from their father? Are we simply pawns in some sick game?

The Bible is wrought with mistranslations. Even those words that are translated correctly many times are taken out of context and twisted to the whims of Man. It is no wonder there are so many religious translations and interpretations.

It is obvious, from the different sects in Islam, that the Koran is also translated and interpreted in many different ways.

***********

Let's take the Hebrew word for "repent" in 1 Samuel ‪15:11‬, 35. It comes from a root that means "to groan" (nacham). The cause of which could be grief, sorrow, pity, compassion, or consolation, directed inwardly or outwardly.

Show me a religious book on this earth that does not have contradictions. All this back and forth about what God is and what He's not...I tire O!

No matter your religion, or even if you have no religion, simply be a good person. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. The "Golden Rule" is a concept that would solve a lot problems, if it were practiced by more people. SMH

DoctorAlien:
Jesus is GOD. Therefore, GOD the Father gave His only begotten Son to save the world. The law of GOD is as sacred as GOD, and only GOD Himself could atone for the breaking of that law.

He sacrificed Jesus(who is GOD but took on flesh) to pay for the destruction that we rightly deserve for breaking His Law. There are people who recognize that they are sinners, and are in need of rescue from eternal damnation which sinners deserve. Jesus' sacrificial work comes in handy to these people.

Other people who reject Jesus and His love will simply get the destruction which they rightly deserve.

The bolded is the biggest contradiction in religion.

texanomaly:
The bolded is the biggest contradiction in religion.

Not really a contradiction.

DoctorAlien:
Not really a contradiction.

Mathew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

texanomaly:
Mathew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

So?

DoctorAlien:
So?

So he is pleased with Himself and wants everyone to know?

texanomaly:
So he is pleased with Himself and wants everyone to know?

The concept of the triune GOD can be more clearly understood by considering the concept of infinity:

Let infinity be a number that cannot be counted. Infinity + infinity + infinity = a number that cannot be counted = infinity.

In the same way, GOD is an Entity that cannot be measured in any way. The Father is GOD. The Son is GOD. The Spirit is GOD. A union of the Father and the Son and the Spirit = An entity that cannot be measured in any way = GOD.

DoctorAlien:
The concept of the triune GOD can be more clearly understood by considering the concept of infinity:

Let infinity be a number that cannot be counted. Infinity + infinity + infinity = a number that cannot be counted = infinity.

In the same way, GOD is an Entity that cannot be measured in any way. The Father is GOD. The Son is GOD. The Spirit is GOD. A union of the Father and the Son and the Spirit = An entity that cannot be measured in any way = GOD.

Of course! Why didn't I think of that? I understand completely now. Thank you.

joyContraMundum:
Did Christ prevent Jephtha from making a human sacrifice of his daughter?

Go read the Bible Well Jephta never killed his daughter, she was rather given to serve in Gods house, even being a virgin.

joyContraMundum:
LMAO...... I thought you have a duty to preach the gospel and win souls which is what Christ's Great Commission is all about. Now, if you're to preach the gospel to an unbeliever in a bid to draw him to salvation by accepting Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour, and he asks the same question I asked then you would go on to tell him this: "I know that this is an attempt at subtly asking the question "Prove that GOD exists." But, bro, I don't have time for such unrewarding, meaningless, spiritually unbenefitting arguments"? Do you expect him to be credulous enough to just swallow the whole thing without asking questions?

I can understand that you have no answer to the question I asked. But instead of admitting that, you're resorting to round-about tactics. No need for that. "You owe me no explanation." You're excused, sir.

I just nees YES or NO answer do you want to saved?

https://www.nairaland.com/icons/closed.gif

what a troublesome thread.

DeepSight:
Do you insist that in the Bible, God has not changed his mind or repented of anything?

Yes sir

KingEbukasBlog:
Yes sir

You cannot: have you not seen the list of instances I provided above?
How do you deny them?

No Abrahamist answered the OP? Some surprise. Imagine that this is the question God will ask every Christian on Judgement day before they're allowed into heaven. Will heaven's gates ever open?