₦airaland Forum

Patchesagain:
***OFF TOPIC***

Weekly M.E round-up!

Iraqi columns getting wrecked in Mosul by VBIEDS - it seems the Iraqi's have never heard of the First Chechen war (or the battle for Grozny). Either way, very difficult threat to counter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvv5bpwqvAY

Shows just how close the frontlines at Dez-Azzure Airbase are, Syrian Arab Airforce Jets getting taken out by ATGM fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a9H1dXPM9U

After this post by Patchesagain I never want to hear anyone complaining that I post terror propaganda videos

Patchesagain:
It is when the Russians specifically say they buy it because it is cheaper
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/russia-plans-to-upgrade-its-combat-helicopters-144434/

They buy it because it's cheaper and effective. Of what use is spending double on a product that will put out same damage?

Patchesagain:
Because the Mi-35 is cheaper

Your article clearly states upgraded MI-24s. I'm saying the Russians are buying more and more new build MI-35m's. Most of the attack helicopter combat sorties in Syria are carried out by MI-24/MI-35m helicopters.


My point has been that all of them are attack helicopters. The MI-24 carrying a small load doesn't negate this fact. The MI-28 can also carry 3 extra men, does this mean it's not a dedicated attack helicopter, like some of you gentlemen would like to claim?

kabe1:
Isn't the Inkuzi basically a 20mm? Why the whole hysteria and what's so special about it besides been a 20mm?

What also makes it different from the 23mm already deployed in the fire support role by multiple armies?

Show me a 23mm hand held weapon system!

That can be utilized down at the squad level!

TrueHeart365:
which makes it heavier ( slow speed) and less maneuverable than the rooivalk.

why do you think the russians developed thesor mi-28 and ka-50.

this argument is baseless and abeg let's post on topic.

this is not the who has a bigger d1ck in africa thread

some research won't do you any harm before commenting

"A Russian Mil Mi-28N. The Mil Mi-28 along with the Ka-50 represented the first dedicated attack helicopter of the Soviet Air Forces in the 1980s."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_helicopter

sorry man the Mi35 is faster than the rooivalk.

kabe1:
Your article clearly states upgraded MI-24s. I'm saying the Russians are buying more and more new build MI-35m's. Most of the attack helicopter combat sorties in Syria is carried out by MI-24/MI-35m helicopters.


My point has been that all of them are attack helicopters. The MI-24 carrying a small load doesn't negate this fact. The MI-28 can also carry 3 extra men, does this mean it's not a dedicated attack helicopter, like some of you gentlemen would like to claim?

NO!!! it bloody hell isn't a dedicated attack helicopter. as an airforce officer this is something you should know.

the russians prefer the mi-35m in syria because it serves as troop transport for SF insertion. plus, they are fighting rebel groups with less sophistication. what do you need a ka-50 for?

their preference for it doesn't change it's role. it remains a multi-role AH with lots of disadvantages over a dedicated AH.

hence, my earlier comment of rooivalk and mi-35 not belonging to the same class.

bro, you sure sey you dey airforce truly. i find this your argument funny.

MikeCZA:
Show me a 23mm hand held weapon system!

That can be utilized down at the squad level!

Isn't it better to deploy an AGL with a blast radius of 10 meters at squad level, then call in fire support from a 23mm Infantry Support Vehicle.


Don't you lose that area effect with a hand held 20mm weapon?

Remember you can fire at an effective range of between 2 - 4 KM with a grenade launcher. Of course much lesser with a hand held one.

I don't quite get the benefit of having a 20mm at squad level?

TrueHeart365:
NO!!! it bloody hell isn't a dedicated attack helicopter. as an airforce officer this is something you should know.

the russians prefer the mi-35m in syria because it serves as troop transport for SF insertion. plus, they are fighting rebel groups with less sophistication. what do you need a ka-50 for?

their preference for it doesn't change it's role. it remains a multi-role AH with lots of disadvantages over a dedicated AH.

hence, my earlier comment of rooivalk and mi-35 not belonging to the same class.

bro, you sure sey you dey airforce truly. i find this your argument funny.

I'm sorry Sir, you probably got me confused for someone else. I'm a 400 level Engineering student, i never said i was in the Air Force.


The MI-28 can also carry Special Forces. 2 units can deliver a team comprising of Six (6) commandos. Does this mean the MI-28 isn't a "dedicated" attack helicopter? Or whatever that term dedicated means?


No bro, the Russians use Hip's for SF transport, while the President S system on the Hip's and MI-35/28/KA-52 provide cover.

The rebels in Syria have advanced Surface to Air missiles, which are shoulder fired. This is a credible threat, I believe.


I'm sorry but the facts on the ground provide adequate evidence which shows you are very wrong. In an active combat zone which Syria is, with parties known to have SAMs and Anti-Air Artillery, the Russians use MI-35 Attack helicopters for at-least 65% of their combat sorties. This is a fact, not the comments you are making.

Tinfoil:
After this post by Patchesagain I never want to hear anyone complaining that I post terror propaganda videos

But patches isn't a symphatizer, beside he was pointing out the 'mistakes' the Iraqis are making.

kabe1:
Isn't it better to deploy an AGL with a blast radius of 10 meters at squad level, then call in fire support from a 23mm Infantry Support Vehicle.


Don't you lose that area effect with a hand held 20mm weapon?

Remember you can fire at an effective range of between 2 - 4 KM with a grenade launcher. Of course much lesser with a hand held one.

I don't quite get the benefit of having a 20mm at squad level?

From your bedroom network enabled command centre?


Using a Battalion support weapon at the section level?

Are we in the future? Soldiers now have exoskeletons?

Do you know what a squad is?

Every squad in the Nigerian army will carry and run around with an AGL!

How about a ground attack aircraft dedicated to every company too?

Dum.....b..st thing I have heard since augubugubu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4TGOJgon4

TrueHeart365:

which makes it heavier ( slow speed) and less maneuverable than the rooivalk.

why do you think the russians developed the mi-28 and ka-50.

this argument is baseless and abeg let's post on topic.

this is not the who has a bigger d1ck in africa thread

some research won't do you any harm before commenting

"A Russian Mil Mi-28N. The Mil Mi-28 along with the Ka-50 represented the first dedicated attack helicopter of the Soviet Air Forces in the 1980s."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_helicopter

Mi-35 is faster even though it's heavier and maneuverable.

MI-35,Mi-28 and Ka-50 are all Attack helicopters and they all have their advantages.


How many Mi-28 and Ka-50 are in service with the Russian airforce? Then compare the figures to that of Mi-35.
The other helicopters were even meant to increase their sales and demonstrate their technology/ capabilities to the world. Different buyers have different requirements/ preference bro.They didn't tell you Mi-35 is not effective in any battle ground. Infact it's has good records from most militaries around the world.

Please tell us what Rooivalk can do that Mi-35M can not do?

Tell us what what Rooivalk has done that mi-35M haven't done?

We don't need to tell you the achievement of Mi-35 in different battle field around the world but you need to tell us what Rooivalk has done outside chasing rebels with light arms.

Your argument is baseless bro.

MikeCZA:
From your bedroom network enabled command centre?


Using a Battalion support weapon at the section level? Not even at company level.

Are we in the future? Soldiers now have exoskeletons?

Do you know what a squad is?

Every squad in the Nigerian army will carry and run around with an AGL!

Dum.....b..st thing I have heard since augubugubu.

Who is augubugubu?

You should know the distinction, I was referring to the handheld grenade launcher at squad level and AGL at section or company level.

Squads carry the MGL in Nigeria. I'm asking how effective would a hand held 20mm be, when a soldier can simply call in a 23mm or 14.5mm for fire suppression?

MikeCZA:
From your bedroom network enabled command centre?


Using a Battalion support weapon at the section level?

Are we in the future? Soldiers now have exoskeletons?

Do you know what a squad is?

Every squad in the Nigerian army will carry and run around with an AGL!

How about a ground attack aircraft dedicated to every company too?

Dum.....b..st thing I have heard since augubugubu.

Ha!

kabe1:
I'm sorry Sir, you probably got me confused for someone else. I'm a 400 level Engineering student, i never said i was in the Air Force.


The MI-28 can also carry Special Forces. 2 units can deliver a team comprising of Six (6) commandos. Does this mean the MI-28 isn't a "dedicated" attack helicopter? Or whatever that term dedicated means?


No bro, the Russians use Hip's for SF transport, while the President S system on the Hip's and MI-35/28/KA-52 provide cover.

The rebels in Syria have advanced Surface to Air missiles, which are shoulder fired. This is a credible threat, I believe.


I'm sorry but the facts on the ground provide adequate evidence which shows you are very wrong. In an active combat zone which Syria is, with parties known to have SAMs and Anti-Air Artillery, the Russians use MI-35 Attack helicopters for at-least 65% of their combat sorties. This is a fact, not the comments you are making.

bro, from the videos i've seen so far plus other sources i use to follow up on the strian crisis, i can tell you the russians have used mi-24 more than any AH they deployed in syria (they also have mi-28 and ka-50). it's ability to operate at extremely low altitude (to evade manpads and AAA), plus if one is downed another can go in for rescue and get the injured out (that's why you see russian AH flying as a group to attack rebel positions) makes it more preferable. at those altitudes a MANPADs gunner would have little time to acquire the target and get a clean shot. please check youtube for these videos.

lemme try to explain this in the simplest terms.

a dedicated attack helicopter (apache, eurocopter tigre, ka-50, rooivalk etc) is built for offensive purpose or more like an ambush role, pop out from no where surprise attacks, hover for a period to deliver precision strikes(something the hind would be too vulnerable for).

the hind was built to do as much damage as possible and leave. leaving inserted SF to finish the job. (it's a russian doctrine)

so there's a difference between the roles they both play.

plus, hind is cheaper to lose.

iblawi:
Mi-35 is faster even though it's heavier and maneuverable.

MI-35,Mi-28 and Ka-50 are all Attack helicopters and they all have their advantages.


How many Mi-28 and Ka-50 are in service with the Russian airforce? Then compare the figures to that of Mi-35.
The other helicopters were even meant to increase their sales and demonstrate their technology/ capabilities to the world. Different buyers have different requirements/ preference bro.They didn't tell you Mi-35 is not effective in any battle ground. Infact it's has good records from most militaries around the world.

Please tell us what Rooivalk can do that Mi-35M can not do?

Tell us what what Rooivalk has done that mi-35M haven't done?

We don't need to tell you the achievement of Mi-35 in different battle field around the world but you need to tell us what Rooivalk has done outside chasing rebels with light arms.

Your argument is baseless bro.

if you read my comment well i believe i used the word "less" manoeuvrable.

yes, they have their advantages which puts them in their separate class (mind you, mi-35 only has the adbantage of troop transport and nothing more)

i don't care what the rooivalk has done, what i'm saying is the comparison is wrong. so you would say since the hind has seen more combat than all the western attack helicopters, it makes it better?

sometimes the way you guys argue is something else

TrueHeart365:
if you read my comment well i believe i used the word "less" manoeuvrable.

yes, they have their advantages which puts them in their separate class (mind you, mi-35 only has the adbantage of troop transport and nothing more)

i don't care what the rooivalk has done, what i'm saying is the comparison is wrong. so you would say since the hind has seen more combat than all the western attack helicopters, it makes it better?

sometimes the way you guys argue is something else

Bros having a secondary role doesn't make it a troop transport helicopter. It's just an added advantage bro.

We have Interceptors, air superiority jet, ground attack jet and multi-role fighter jets. Even though F15 is an air superiority fighter doesn't mean SU-30 or Rafael are lesser capable fighters because they are multi-role fighters.

TrueHeart365:
bro, from the videos i've seen so far plus other sources i use to follow up on the strian crisis, i can tell you the russians have used mi-24 more than any AH they deployed in syria (they also have mi-28 and ka-50). it's ability to operate at extremely low altitude (to evade manpads and AAA), plus if one is downed another can go in for rescue and get the injured out (that's why you see russian AH flying as a group to attack rebel positions) makes it more preferable. at those altitudes a MANPADs gunner would have little time to acquire the target and get a clean shot. please check youtube for these videos.

lemme try to explain this in the simplest terms.

a dedicated attack helicopter (apache, eurocopter tigre, ka-50, rooivalk etc) is built for offensive purpose or more like an ambush role, pop out from no where surprise attacks, hover for a period to deliver precision strikes(something the hind would be too vulnerable for).

the hind was built to do as much damage as possible and leave. leaving inserted SF to finish the job. (it's a russian doctrine)

so there's a difference between the roles they both play.

plus, hind is cheaper to lose.

A video was posted here few months ago showing hinds carrying out the same role you said they can't be used for.

The video prove you wrong again.

Vikkie14:
But patches isn't a symphatizer, beside he was pointing out the 'mistakes' the Iraqis are making.

I don't like your insinuation. At least my posts are African related. This off topics B.S. derails the thread, especially Africaken, she is the worst violator

.

.

iblawi:
Bros having a secondary role doesn't make it a troop transport helicopter. It's just an added advantage bro.

We have Interceptors, air superiority jet, ground attack jet and multi-role fighter jets. Even though F15 is an air superiority fighter doesn't mean SU-30 or Rafael lesser capable fighters because they are multi-role fighters.

so in your narrative you will compare f-7 to su-30, or f-15 to f-22?

or mi-35 to apache?

funny guy.

giles14:
sorry man the Mi35 is faster than the rooivalk.

By 1kmph!!!! besides look at the cruise speed then come back to him!!

?

iblawi:
Mi-35 is faster even though it's heavier and maneuverable.

MI-35,Mi-28 and Ka-50 are all Attack helicopters and they all have their advantages.


How many Mi-28 and Ka-50 are in service with the Russian airforce? Then compare the figures to that of Mi-35.
The other helicopters were even meant to increase their sales and demonstrate their technology/ capabilities to the world. Different buyers have different requirements/ preference bro.They didn't tell you Mi-35 is not effective in any battle ground. Infact it's has good records from most militaries around the world.

Please tell us what Rooivalk can do that Mi-35M can not do?

Tell us what what Rooivalk has done that mi-35M haven't done?

We don't need to tell you the achievement of Mi-35 in different battle field around the world but you need to tell us what Rooivalk has done outside chasing rebels with light arms.

Your argument is baseless bro.

The highest service ceiling of any AH in the world
The highest hover of any AH in the world
Second fastest climb rate of any AH in the world
Fastest cruise speed of any AH in the world
Longest range of any AH in the world

need i say more? In terms of raw performance no Attack Helicopter in the world can match the Rooivalk...Yet you want to compare it to the Mi35?

TrueHeart365:
if you read my comment well i believe i used the word "less" manoeuvrable.

yes, they have their advantages which puts them in their separate class (mind you, mi-35 only has the adbantage of troop transport and nothing more)

i don't care what the rooivalk has done, what i'm saying is the comparison is wrong. so you would say since the hind has seen more combat than all the western attack helicopters, it makes it better?

sometimes the way you guys argue is something else

Dude, you're simply going round in circles. Answer this, the MI-28 Attack Helicopter can carry 3 additional personnel/soldiers, so what is it?

TrueHeart365:
so in your narrative you will compare f-7 to su-30, or f-15 to f-22?

or mi-35 to apache?

funny guy.

Dude, that's not what he meant. He compared an SU-30 and an F-15, not with an F-7.

kabe1:
Dude, you're simply going round in circles. Answer this, the MI-28 Attack Helicopter can carry 3 additional personnel/soldiers, so what is it?

you seem to me like someone looking for an excuse to be wrong.

i won't bother after this. so do us a favor and go through this article cos i don't understand how a "dedicated" AH will sound strange to someone who claims military knowledge.


"The Russian Army received their first Mi-28Ns in 2006 as a replacement for their aging Mi-24 Hinds in the dedicated attack role."


"Interestingly enough, despite its classification of "attack helicopter", the Mi-28 Havoc features a three-person passenger compartment just aft of the main cockpit (similar to the larger Cold War-era Mil Mi-24 "Hind" series helicopters). However, this compartment is intended moreso as a rescue feature for downed airmen than for the transporting armed combatants into battle"
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=156

let's not derail this thread

Tinfoil:
?

Visit of Senegal Delegation to PAC
02 Nov, 2015 - A 09 members VIP delegation Led by H.E. Mr. Mankeur NDIAYE, Foreign Minister of Senegal visited Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra on 02 November, 2015. The delegation was received by Air Marshal Javaid Ahmed, Chairman PACB Kamra. A brief presentation was given to the visiting team, presenting the products, services and capabilities of PAC Kamra. A brief question-answer session was carried out during the presentation. Areas of mutual interests and benefits were discussed. The briefing was followed by a tour to PAC Facilities. The delegation also acknowledged that Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra is fully equipped with manufacturing and aviation facilities. Both countries are looking forward for further expansion in relationships.

TrueHeart365:
you seem to me like someone looking for an excuse to be wrong.

i won't bother after this. so do us a favor and go through this article cos i don't understand how a "dedicated" AH will sound strange to someone who claims military knowledge.


"The Russian Army received their first Mi-28Ns in 2006 as a replacement for their aging Mi-24 Hinds in the dedicated attack role."


"Interestingly enough, despite its classification of "attack helicopter", the Mi-28 Havoc features a three-person passenger compartment just aft of the main cockpit (similar to the larger Cold War-era Mil Mi-24 "Hind" series helicopters). However, this compartment is intended moreso as a rescue feature for downed airmen than for the transporting armed combatants into battle"
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=156

let's not derail this thread

Okay, your article clearly states the Russians use the MI-24 in the dedicated attack role, and are now only been replaced in that role by the MI-28.


However, all through today, you have been telling us the MI-24 is not a dedicated attack helicopter.

You have only ended up contradicting yourself. The article also doesn't mention the Russians have been buying new build MI-35m helicopters also.

The fact about the matter is the MI-28 which has a crew of 2 men, can still carry 3 additional soldiers . Your own article proves this. 5 men in all.

My question remains, what then is the MI-28?

You have proven to be unable to answer this little question.

kabe1:
Okay, your article clearly states the Russians use the MI-24 in the dedicated attack role, and are now only been replaced in that role by the MI-28.


However, all through today, you have been telling us the MI-24 is not a dedicated attack helicopter.

You have only ended up contradicting yourself. The article also doesn't mention the Russians have been buying new build MI-35m helicopters also.

The fact about the matter is the MI-28 which has a crew of 2 men, can still carry 3 additional soldiers . Your own article proves this. 5 men in all.

My question remains, what then is the MI-28?

You have proven to be unable to answer this little question.

stop confusing yourself bro. i can see you just want to argue for nothing. i don't have that time.

the russians still use the hind but not in the dedicated AH role anymore as it was replaced by mi-28. the russians had different doctrine as regards AH and came to realise the mi-24 doesn't fit that role of a dedicated AH so had to replace it with a lighter and faster one.

they could have used the mi-35 instead, since it's the an upgraded mi-24.

comprehend bro. it's not rocket science

for your last question, it's dumb since you've decided to ignore the answer i purposely posted from the article.

abeg rest this matter

TrueHeart365:
so in your narrative you will compare f-7 to su-30, or f-15 to f-22?

or mi-35 to apache?

funny guy.

F7 is third generation and SU - 30 is 4th generation with no comparable features, F-15 is 4th generation and F22 is 5th generation.


The avionics and other features are not even comparable by any standard because they are a generation ahead of each other.

Same can't be said about Rooivalk and MI-35M. In fact, mi-35M can do all Rooivalk can do.

We have mi-17 helicopters that can launch attacks in battle field but they were never referred to as dedicated Attack helicopters.