iSlayer:



Smh.

lawani:
Bigfrancis! You are here again? Okay, listen to yourself. If they did not allow early arrivals (as you imagined) to practice Aborisha, how come they allowed new arrivals?. Can you give an academic answer?. I have already explained to you once that even the Spaniards and Portuguese were not more advanced than the Malians who feared the Oyo! The Oyo capital was bigger than the Malian capital and the Malians were peers of the Moors who were masters of Portugal and Spain!
The Yoruba went with the Portuguese and Spaniards to the new world AS SETTLERS! You understand? I believe even before the British! Dont be putting Yoruba and Igbo on same scale my friend!.

When Oyo fell, Germans took a post in Togo mid 19th century before then all of Ashanti and etc were one federation with Oyo and Oyo would have been selling dissidents like Ijesas on the Slave coast from 15th century to late 19th century when the trade peaked. When trade peaked, traders preferred Yoruba and paid higher for Yorubas, so majority of slaves exported from even Calabar were Yorubas and many Yorubas were bought by Igbos as farmhands. They are now Osus. Gey your acts together for an Igbo renaissance, you cant change South American Yorubas to Igbos!

To back up my assertion that majority of slaves exported from Calabar were Yorubas, See an Ijebu man sold by Ijaws on the bight of Biafra

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osifekunde

So, please stop wasting your energy to attempt Yoruba reduction!. It is futile. Those people dont want to be seen as anything other than Yorubas. Very soon the Osus in your place will be claimed by the Yorubas if you are not careful!.

RedboneSmith:


Bros, I dey fear you!

Malians were afraid of Oyo? Anyway, that's a matter for another day. It is this Osifekunde matter that caught my attention. Osifekunde was not sold from the Bight of Biafra. Osifekunde was captured by the Western Ijaw who plied their canoes in the western Niger delta as far as the Lagos Lagoon, and was sold from the Bight of Benin.

Osifekunde's captors were most probably the Arogbo Ijaws, who were known as great watercraft people and pirates...as suggested by this article.

https://woyingi./2009/04/21/the-return-to-arogbo-reflections-on-slavery-kinship-and-going-home/

Easy, bro.

RedboneSmith:


Bros, I dey fear you!

Malians were afraid of Oyo? Anyway, that's a matter for another day. It is this Osifekunde matter that caught my attention. Osifekunde was not sold from the Bight of Biafra. Osifekunde was captured by the Western Ijaw who plied their canoes in the western Niger delta as far as the Lagos Lagoon, and was sold from the Bight of Benin.

Osifekunde's captors were most probably the Arogbo Ijaws, who were known as great watercraft people and pirates...as suggested by this article.

https://woyingi./2009/04/21/the-return-to-arogbo-reflections-on-slavery-kinship-and-going-home/

Easy, bro.

lawani:


IJAWS WERE NOT SOVEREIGN ON THE SLAVE COAsT OR BIGHT OF BENIN AND THE STORY SAID NIGER DELTA WATERS. HE WAS SOLD BY IJAWS WHO DID NOT CONTROL ANYWHERE WEST OF THE NIGER.. HE WAS CAUGHT ON A BUSINESS TRIP TO CAMEROUN ACCORDING TO ACCOUNTS.

lawani:
IF THEY TEST YOUR DNA AND SAY YOU ARE YORUBA WILL YOU AGREE? SO STOP TALKING DNA, IT TRANSCENDS DNA!
EVEN IN NORTH AMERICA, YOU FIND PEOPLE LIKE KAREEM ABDULJABAR WHO SAID CLEARLY THAT HIS DAD OR GRANDDAD WAS A YORUBA MAN THAT SPOKE THE LANGUAGE, HE CAME TO THE USA AS PROPERTY OF A FRENCHMAN WHO SETTLED IN THE USA. KAREEM ABDULJABAR IS SURE OF THAT BECAUSE HIS LATE DAD TOLD HIM HIS ID! SHOW ME AN IGBO MAN LIKE THAT IN NORTH AMERICA. NOT DNA IGBO O ! BUT REAL IGBO. THIS IS KAREEM ABDULJABAR. GO TO HAITI, JAMAICA, YOU FIND PEOPLE LIKE THAT WHO ARE SURE THEY ARE YORUBA DESCENT.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Abdul-Jabbar

RedboneSmith:



Where in the world are you plucking your history from?!!

RedboneSmith:


You know, for a guy who threatens 'terrible backlashes', you are disappointingly low steam.

iSlayer:


You're trying too hard boy.

RedboneSmith:
Mr Research, Osifekunde was captured by 'Ijoh' and sold to the Itsekiri at Bobi. Given this information, it is not hard to figure out that this happened in the Western Delta (Bight of Benin) and not the Eastern Delta (Bight of Biafra). Western Ijaws were renowned pirates and often sold their captives to the neighbouring Itsekiri. Stop adding pepper and salt to history. Stick with facts or at least (where facts aren't readily accessible) the most logical hypothesis.

Read:

(Note: Osifekunde = Osifeku-ade. He was heading from Epe to the Benin River when he was captured; and not Cameroon as you falsely claim.)

RedboneSmith:

You are not even trying at all, kid.

lawani:
This is Olori Oluwo Adeyemo Alakija of the ROF born in Bahia 1884. He was last born of seven siblings and his eldest brother was a big lawyer in BAHIA BRAZIL, He did not come back to West Africa, that one may have been born in 1870 in Bahia and he was a lawyer. The family is still in Bahia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeyemo_Alakija

bigfrancis21:


Ah bros where do you manufacture your own information from? I've noticed this desire by many people like to to rewrite history to make yourself seem great. Alakija was a Nigerian of Aguda/Amaro ascent. History doesn't say he was born in Bahia. Please everyone here has access to the internet.

Even wikipedia describes him as a Nigerian lawyer, not a bahian one.

RedboneSmith:
Mr Research, Osifekunde was captured by 'Ijoh' and sold to the Itsekiri at Bobi. Given this information, it is not hard to figure out that this happened in the Western Delta (Bight of Benin) and not the Eastern Delta (Bight of Biafra). Western Ijaws were renowned pirates and often sold their captives to the neighbouring Itsekiri. Stop adding pepper and salt to history. Stick with facts or at least (where facts aren't readily accessible) the most logical hypothesis.

Read:

(Note: Osifekunde = Osifeku-ade. He was heading from Epe to the Benin River when he was captured; and not Cameroon as you falsely claim.)

Olu317:
THE CONTENTION HERE IS THE CLARIFICATION OF HIM BEING A YORUBA MAN. THIS HAS PUNCTURED THE CLAIMS OF BIGFRANCIS'S PERSPECTIVE ON THE SLAVES FROM BIGHT OF BINI/ BIAFRA

bigfrancis21:


If this is your argument, then I could say with a degree of certainty that some slaves from the Bight of Biafra may have been sold also through the Bight of Benin. However, in the end such numbers are very minute going both ways to make any significant difference.

lawani:
The 16th century Owa Obokun Ijesa, Owa Atakunmosa who was a warrior King, the grandfather of the first Deji of Akure bore a name that translates as seasoned mariner. He left his daughters with the Ogboni Ijebu jesa and travelled to Benin for 60 years. He must have gone back and forth, probably married and etc in Europe and the Americas, earning him the nickname Atakunmosa, the mariner. He came back to be crowned Owa Obokun. There were many people like that. The Alaafin sent 400 people to Europe probably with a mandate not to even return because they did not return. Go and read about Oshodi Tapa the Lagos chief who died late 19th century, he was a fluent Portuguese speaker who used to go back and forth to the Americas on behalf of the Eleko, Oba of Lagos. There were people with merchant fleet and one of them married the adopted daughter of Queen Victoria as in a princess who grew up in the British court with all the priviledges and education. The Queen advised the 19th century billionaire to marry her daughter and he gladly did so!. People grew rich on selling Yoruba clothes abroad. And all this time, all Igbos were restricted to their villages. That is why Yoruba were on thesame footing as Europeans so far as America is concerned. What changed everything is the industrial revolution. Even at that if there were no civil war, the Yoruba would not have been colonised just like Ethiopia was not colonised. These are facts you need to be abreast of.

Oshodi Tapa
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshodi_Tapa

Sara Forbes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Forbes_Bonetta

Olu317:
One of the biggest mistakes from you and the likes perspective is that you find it hard to agree to the posited view of other researchers that Yoruba is the largest homogeneous ethnicity in Africa because your perception were the Ibos had more population. Historians have posited that the first key factor to identify an ethnic group is religion while language comes behind it. Yoruba groups were called with different names at different places at different times. Till infinity, Yoruba groups will always identify themselves with ILE IFE and Yoruba traditions. This is a pointer to whom are of Yoruba ethnicity wherever they are found. Every man or woman captured as slave of Yoruba ancestry have knowledge on what is known as FAMILY TREE to a large extent which has helped many people to have idea on their identity on the place of origin. Every Yoruba prince or princess has a sword made from ILE IFE to always identify him and his subjects wherever he migrated towards. And this had helped many Yoruba people to be more spiritually attached to ILE IFE because oral reference to the presumed HOLY CITY, WHICH NO PRINCE MUST WAGE WAR AGAINST BUT DEFEND ILE IFE WITH THE LAST BLOOD ON THEIR VEINS . The Yoruba traditions have been the COORDINATING FACTORS in our behavioural pattern embedded in ‘ORI'.

bigfrancis21:


To be honest, people like you exaggerate things unnecessarily. Maybe you're thinking 19th century is 1000 years back. 19th century is as recently as the 1800s, just yesterday, the same period the Portuguese captured and sold Yoruba slaves to Brazil and Cuba (1810 - 1860), the same period Tapa learned Portuguese because of this very recent contact with the Portuguese. So if I may ask, what's the big deal in this? Is this your evidence of 'equal footing with the Europeans' just based on one man, probably an ex slave, being able to speak Portuguese? Honestly, your posts reeks of someone who sees himself as inferior trying to claim substance by measuring himself with the Europeans , and unfortunately to the Europeans there is no special black over the other. Speaking of historical achievement, the Igbo Ukwu artworks are the most sophisticated and fine artworks of southern Nigeria to as many as 800 years back.

Moreover, all these attempts at creating this supposed glorious history is all awash because everyone has access to the internet.

lawani:


BE COLOR BLIND MY BROTHER, THERE ARE ISOLATED PEOPLES LIKE KOMA AND NRI PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD. THEY ARE STILL IN SOUTH AMERICA, ASIA AND AFRICA TILL TODAY, ONLY EUROPE DOES NOT HAVE SUCH BUT WHAT ABOUT ROMA PEOPLE EVEN IN EUROPE? SOME OF THEM ARE ALMOST ISOLATED. SO IT IS NOT ABOUT BLACK OR WHITE BUT SOCIAL ADVANCEMENT. I HAVE EXPLAINED TO YOU WHY IGBO UKWU IS NOT NRI. GO AND CLAIM THEM THEN IF YOU CAN!. AND SEE THE RESULT!. IGBO UKWU IS NRI ONLY IN YOUR DREAMS. I HAVE PUNCTURED THIS ARTICLE TOTALLY BY PLACING HERE A JOURNAL PUBLISHED IN NORTH AMERICA SAYING MID 18TH CENTURY BRAZIL WAS 10 PERCENT FREE BLACKS IN POPULATION EXCLUDING SLAVES O. SO THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF YOUR ARGUMENT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE! BECAUSE YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASED ON EARLIER SLAVES NOT BEING ALLOWED TO PRACTICE AFRICAN CULTURE AND THAT YORUBA CULTURE WAS BROUGHT LATER IN THE 19TH CENTURY. GO AND READ THAT E JOURNAL AGAIN.

This journal quoted real figures from census in Brazil and the figure was over 10 percent free blacks in Brazil as at late 18th century. Apart from slaves. So it buttresses my position that the Yoruba in the Americas were like Europeans in the Americas. They went back and forth. You are still coming up as a history scholar else you would have known that even the British paid tax to people like Jaja of Opobo who were late entrants into the mix, so your statement that Portuguese raided Yoruba is very ignorant, I forgive your ignorance. For your information, the Portuguese can not raid Yoruba back then just like Yoruba cant go to Europe and raid them. Both were sovereign states that respected each other
http://ejournals.library.vanderbilt.edu/ojs/index.php/lusohispanic/article/view/3182/1369

bigfrancis21:


Lol. Dude, free or ex slaves were not socially on the same level as their whites even after slavery, even till today. Black discrimination still exists in Brazil and Cuba. There were not seen as equal as whites.

lawani:


PEOPLE WHO CROSSED THE ATLANTIC WILLINGLY TO SETTLE WERE INITIALLY NO BETTER OFF THAN EACH OTHER. INFACT THE IRISH AND OTHER EUROPEANS DRIVEN BY FAMINE WERE WORSE OFF THAN YORUBAS WHO WENT THERE WILLINGLY. THERE WERE MANY YORUBAS IN THE AMERICAS WHO WERE NEVER SLAVES FOR ONCE AS IN THEY ARE NOT DIRECTLY DESCENDED FROM SLAVES AT ALL!. IF OSHODI TAPA HAD GONE TO BRAZIL TO SETTLE, WOULD HE BE A SLAVE? HE WAS GOING BACK AND FORTH LIKE MANY OTHERS.

bigfrancis21:


The difference between you and I, again, is that I deal in facts. Anybody in the field of academics should know the importance of dealing in facts/evidence and not hearsay. You don't just say things and expect people to swallow it because you said it, you have to back it up with evidence - that I have done all through this thread.

The image attached below shows that as of the 1640s, the Yoruba population is estimated at 617,000 or a little over half a million. This is not enough to support one of your previous statements, especially looking at where we are coming from and where we are going to. By the 1900s, the figure is estimated at 2 million people. The other image attached below shows the population of southern Nigeria as of the 1920s and we pretty much see where everyone stands at. How we suddenly go from such numbers to high double digit figures as of the 2000s beats me.

By the way, we all know Nigeria's current population figures are inflated and exaggerated just to keep certain people ahead. A proper census conducted in Nigeria will leave everybody shocked. Many articles that quote Yoruba as one of the largest go by our 'Nigerian census' data which we know is highly flawed. That is a story for another day.