₦airaland Forum

Some time back (2013) I was going through some rough patch, I had just lost my dream job and it was a transitional point in my life. I expressed my confusion with a little prayer on a social forum (Facebook). It attracted the attention and comment of only one person and it was none of my over 1000 friends. We didn't even have any mutual friend and had absolutely nothing im common. He wasn't even African. He was was a Movie Producer in Hollywood, an Atheist. This conversation ensued.

Me: When ma thoughts get distorted, I turn to where I started. Good Gracious God.

Him: Instead of quieting a working brain, that tries to make sense of things, with mindless monotone prayers - created to make brains think less, appreciate confusion, as it is the only real way to enlightenment. Only if you are confused and disoriented, your brain will work as hard as it should and unwinding the confusion is what makes us smart. Hoping on some magic wonders will let you keep hoping for wonders and never really live them yourself. That is the crux of religion and its true poison, spread by its priests for exactly that reason. Because if you live a joyful wondrous live as intended, they will not make any money, as they live on human misery and quiet brains.
Break free from torment and join the happy people on the other side. And just remember that hell and the devil did not exist before the 13th century, when they were made up by the priests, because people questioned their authority, so don't worry about eternal damnation. Its just propaganda.

Me: That's a school of thought. We can question the reality of the supernatural for lack of tangible evidence that can be backed by convincing fact. But to deny it's existence or efficacy would be remiss of the truth and would itself be a blatant denial. No doubt religion has become a major brain-washing control for the gullible. It gets even worse when religious heads constantly abuse their roles and corrupt the minds of the people. That is why I do not worship religion, I worship God. The brain you rightly adjuged to be control room of all the solutions did not make itself. I believe it is in connection to an all-solving powerhouse, call that the source. Who controls this source then?

Him: It is not a school of thought, as I am not running a school and they are my own original thoughts I am sharing. Albeit true that I am teaching my discoveries, but it is far from a school.
I am not questioning the existence of the unexplainable, as it is the fuel to knowledge. Supernatural is a misnomer though, as things only seem supernatural until you understand them. Magnetism was used as a supernatural magic thing many many thousands of years, because the knowledge of its workings where only known to a few. Today, no normally educated person will think it is in fact supernatural, while you still may find tribes detached from technology, where you may still pass as a powerful magician, if you can make a small piece of metal turn without touching it.
So while denying the probability of something that we might consider supernatural is wrong, it is even more wrong to wrap all that what we do not know into a very convenient artificial mechanism we can use to wash ourself clean from sin and responsibilities - which is what religion does. It becomes even worse, if this mechanism is given a name, power and moral rights on judgment, controlled by those who allegedly have a deeper understanding or direct communication line to said mechanism.
You can still be unsure of the universe, ready for its wonders without judgment without bowing to a deity. It is called Ignostics. It is the only possible way to observe the universe without the inherit arrogance of any system of believe. The simple honest statement that we don't know. But just because you don't know, you don't need to make shit up and feed it to others, just because you are afraid of the unknown. After all, we should not forget the origin of religion, which was the realization of entropy and death and the fear of it, as it is inherently unknown.
But today most of us don't call death supernatural, just natural...

Me: You pose a very valid verdict. Especially considering the fact that no one and nothing has proven the existence of the after-life which would counterpoint any argument to this effect. Still one can't help but wonder that there has to be a purpose to this all. There has to be a reason we even exist at all. There has to be a beginning and a destination for this our journey. Otherwise why are we all dying to live if we're just living to die? How do you explain meta-physics? How do you explain Paranormal activities? Deja-vu? etc. These are questions probing even the greatest of minds be it scientists, philosophers, etc. Yet definite answers are not forth-coming. Even though we try to ignore these things as hear-says that contradict intelligent heresy, they do happen.
Man, is no doubt central to the whole scheme of things in this universe, but there must be some super-power we answer to. The same way a child answers to the parent, or a staff answers to his boss, among other analogies.

Him: Why must there to be a meaning?
It is understandable that the human mind is seeking an explanation to life and his own existence, but this wondrous feeling, this urge to understand, to figure out and learn is a byproduct of a our very complex and hyper-conscious mind.
A conscious mind is able to distinguish exterior from interior worlds, it can separate itself as an entity from other entities and it can observe and relate other entities to each other. This is the mind that can figure out cause and causality. It is the first level of the conscious mind. This is where most smarter monkeys and all apes are at. They understand that they exist and that others exist and that one thing has a relation to another thing. If you point at something, only dolphins, higher monkeys and apes will look where you point, instead of your finger.
I can not say whether other ape or monkey minds are capable of much more than that, and dolphins are so much alien to us in terms of perception that it is hard to imagine their view of the world, but we do know that they all mourn their dead. Although it is very unlikely that they are aware of their own immortality, which is the ultimate cause and causality wisdom. And ever since we understood that we are mortal, we fought death. And one ways to fight death is by not being afraid of it. This is why dead was such a highly celebrated event in most cultures and still is today. And since no one can tell what comes after, we are stuck at the moment of a vanishing consciousness. We don't want to simply disappear, we want to matter. We want our existence to be worth something. In th infinity of times, the fastness of the universe, we are compelled to find a meaning in everything. This is why we developed a symbol-based mind. We see patterns, meaning and deliberation in everything, because it makes it much easier to process. And all the things that we can not grasp, like infinity, the size of the universe, the massive amount of bacteria we consist off, the illusion of consciousness and control, make us feel weird and small, when we contemplate them.
To escape this fear and the need for meaning, one single step is needed, acceptance to be a temporal entity in relation to many other temporal entities and that the cause for your drift through space time and the causalities it brings matter, whether you realize it nor not, as the existence of you itself is testament to the intricate and beautiful entropy that is inherent in all things alive, how else would the dust of stars be dispersed into blackness, just to form a blue watery planet with little monkey creatures that eventually fly to space, if not with meaning.
Meaning is found in the mechanism of nature, in its self-perpetuating purpose of being. Life is tenacious and creative and it is so to live; that is its meaning and so is yours.
You are here because you can defend this planet from asteroids, because you can overcome biological death and add further meaning to life, you are here because you observe and thus inject meaning into things that are, you are here to create and make thing, to analyze, understand, copy, reproduce, re-configure and sample, you are here because you are life and living in itself is meaning. No need to look into magic and parlor tricks, no need give up yourself in the name of an artificial power, no need to have purpose taken away by those who do not want you to live life, but instead produce for them, break, work and make for them, because that is what they want you to think is purpose... be good, obey, don't think, don't run free and naked and full of joy, do not sin, do not live. By keeping you on a never ending quest to seek purpose, they keep you occupied and distracted from the true beauty life is. And from the knowledge that even without purpose, being alive is the most extraordinary thing in itself, even if that is shared with a thousand billion lifeforms, because black nothingness is still the most common thing there is.

Him: Again, metaphysics is a misnomer. It just describe things that we do not consider part of common science. Things that are so far away from us understanding, that they are categorized as uncertainty. And even things that we know exist fall in here, just because we have no clue why they do what they do. Quantum Mechanics partially falls into this category. Zero-Field Theories, Warp Fields, Dark Matter, Anti-Matter, Orgon and many other things we are just not sure yet can be found here and many of them slowly crossing over to common science as they are more and more understood.
Just recently we found that human saliva contains strings of DNA that are of no known species on earth. It is very likely that there is something similar to bacteria or viruses that lives on and in us, we just have not yet discovered it.
Until 20 years ago most astronomers thought Pluto was the most distant solar body, but it turns out that there are about 20 other objects, some closer than others, that are about the same size, all in our solar system - which is one of the reasons Pluto's specification as planet was revoked. We did not know about solar wind cycles just a few years ago.
Two hundred years ago electricity was still considered a novelty, a parlor trick and meta-physics and when Voltaire made a massive battery in a cellar and made sparks fly on command, they called him a wizard and a alchemist. Today we call him a scientist.
Four hundred years ago being left handed was considered to be devils work and unnatural. In some cultures people eat other peoples heart because they think they will get their enemies powers. And some people believe in the birth of a guy who was his own father and had inseminated his own mother, without having sex with her. There is only one opposition to knowledge and that is ignorance. And the less ignorant we are to the facts of life and nature, the more we lose of our fear of the unknown. This is why the majority of scientists and people with scientific education give up believing in a voyeuristic magic man in the sky. And what does religion do? It loses more and more the grip on its people, it gets more and more aggressive and it tries to explain away all the new findings - in some countries religion still dictates what true or not and even if a particle accelerator in Cern uncovers the nature of nature, it is not true until the holy men say so? Is that the meaning you were referring to? I hope not.
There are several theories why a DeJa Vu occurs. One of my - i later learned that others had similar ideas - more meta-physical (as in regions of physics we are not even close to understanding) ideas why it happens is a sort of ripple in the time perception. Time as we perceive it does not really exist. Time only occurs as a byproduct of mass moving in space, which is why they are so closely related. Flies certainly perceive time very differently then we do. But it is very likely that most of the entities that exist in times-space have a related way of perceiving time and that is a sort of forward movement of causations. A string of happenings, one following the other. But oddly enough, the very moment we perceive the now, it becomes the past and nothing is graspable, nothing every really is right now. All perception is into the past, as sound and light travel to you and then are decoded in your brain and then stringed together to make sense. This is a sort of a probability filter. (It may get a little bit heave here, so bear with me) Now the universe, or better reality consists of a string of momentary options. If you observe a photon to go through on of two slots, it will always chose the one unobserved. Thus your observation is influential in the forming of reality. This is why all this positive thinking crap works, even if it is not very healthy to see just the positive things in life, because it might be the tiger and not the wind rustling in the bushes. But it does mean that reality is shape-able, albeit shaped by all entities in it at the same time and shaping it to the reality that you want to be in, you have to learn to navigate this odd sea of probabilities.
But that also means that all the probable realities are true in one way or another. And without the time filter in your brain, you would not conceive reality of a flow from one point to another, but be immersed in all possible probabilities over all time that you could perceive, based on your entropic cycle. That would be nothing but a white, loud blur without sense.
That time filter may get disjointed once in a while, offering you a glimpse into a possible reality, now or later. And that ripping in time occurs at both times, but it is only part of your perceivable memory the second time around, which is why it gives you this odd feeling of having been there.
Of course, it could just be a very small delay on a neural level, where the mind is working, while the illusionary consciousness just tries to keep up and realizes something that the mind already has processed, but being delayed by a nick of a second, you think you had that thought in exactly the same way and you did, because it just happened, one part of the brain just didn't get the same info at the same time and got confused...
Just because you don't know, don't make shit up - especially not an almighty magical entity that has nothing better to do but to Bleep you up, if you do not live your life by the moral rules of people from a long dead culture five thousand years ago and call then have the audacity to call it truth and salvation. And if you do, be diligent to scrutinize your idea, torment it with doubt until the only thing left is the only thing possible and even then be open minded and doubtful.

Me: That's deep. But the complexity of it only further assuages my doubt, if any, that God infact does exist. Do you not see how further and deeper the tunnel goes? How like a maze it becomes, finding other explanations rather than accepting the one truth that there's God? And He should be acknowledged and infact revered. Your opinions and reservations are valid and convincing but still do not provide definite answers nor understanding.
The bit about Deja Vu and Time Ripple perception however was very enlightening considering it's basis under Einstein's relativity and frames of reference.
I still believe Science and God can co-exist. Science being the mechanism to understand the mystery of God and his creation.

Him: Oh I see the depth of the tunnel. I would even dare to say that I went much deeper then you ever will.
And I tell you there is only more depth there. No entity waiting for you to bow to. Even if god would exist, if "he" would need your or anyones praise, "he" would not deserve it.
The notion to personifying the unknown (and just the fact that you think it could be male, should tell you that it is a made up story by some asshole males that wanted to control others, especially woman, who are the true bearers of wonder), giving it a personality and morality which it forces unto you is just bullshit and while I am willing to try to get my brothers and sisters out of their mind cancer inducing illusion, I am not willing to get into anything more than a heartfelt try anymore, as I do not consider myself to be the savior of people. If people are not willing to be saved from their idiocracies, their torment disguised as salvation, I will just detach and distant myself. There is no way to save those who don't want to be saved. There is no way to talk the lazy ones out of their soft life, free of responsibility, handed over - just like their mental freedom - to be pampered by the high priests of their illusion.
I wish you that you can detach yourself from anything you call god, for it is the true evil and the true anti-christ in the sense of, very ironically, opposing exactly what Christ would actually stand for; in plain daring hypocrisy.
I hope you get the courage to doubt what men preach and listen to what nature tells you. I wish you will uncover the truth of religion yourself, so you find the strength and break free from its festering bounds of hate and gracefully hidden elitism. I hope you can break out of the prison your mind has been put in when you were a child, to make you conform to morals some rich white people four hundred years ago defined to be worthy to live by, while the poor keep dying, all in gods name. As long as there is a god, you have no right to fight the powerful. I hope you will understand it one day. And then teach others to break free and demand their right to a decent and happy live with all the luxuries and comfort live has to offer, a right we all should have, not only the 1% that created your religion in the first place.
But I will not be there, as I am leaving you now. I will not let my existence be tainted by the presence of men's most wicked institution and its apostles of misery.
So long and all the best to you and all those still lost in the world of undeveloped proto humans, who still cling to magic when faced with the unknown. I do hope you evolve soon and join us on the side of the light and enlightenment, where fear is replaced with joyful curiosity and the unknown with the empty map that awaits to be drawn by us.

Me: Don't get me wrong. I strongly believe in the continuous pursuit of knowledge to unravel the unknown. But to regard as untrue, all other doctrines and beliefs is what I'm opposed to. it's been great rubbing minds with you. You're certainly an ingenious mind. Unfortunately the argument is one that remains inconclusive and would probably remain so for as long as we live. I do agree that liberation of the mind is the only solution for every human to attain enlightenment, and whatever ideals or ideologies can profer this is worth it.


End. He bailed.

What a load of b*ll!

Mr. pressplay that is not victory,he simply saw no way to convince you so he chose to leave. Easy-peasy.

wissenschaften:
Mr. pressplay that is not victory,he simply saw no way to convince you so he chose to leave. Easy-peasy.

He couldn't prove there is no God. Hence I won.
I can't prove there's God either but the belief in God has made the extraordinary happen often times. So I choose to believe there's a God.

Do you honestly believe in the depth of your mind that there isn't a Creator behind this magnificent and mysterious universe?

pressplay411:
He couldn't prove there is no God. Hence I won.
I can't prove there's God either but the belief in God has made the extraordinary happen often times. So I choose to believe there's a God.

Do you honestly believe in the depth of your mind that there isn't a Creator behind this magnificent and mysterious universe?

If you say so sir.

Sinestroo:
What a load of b*ll!

You can't install android OS on BB. You ain't ready bruh.

pressplay411:
You can't install android OS on BB.
You ain't ready bruh.

lol. The mark of the low-iq. You think your are so smart because you convinced a dumb confused atheist

Sinestroo:
lol. The mark of the low-iq. You think your are so smart because you convinced a dumb confused atheist

On the contrary I think he had a major influence on my psyche. He got me thinking differently, his depth prompted me to question my dogmatic assertions albeit due to the belief system established in this part of the world. He just failed to prove atheism or disprove theism.

He is actually into Hollywood production and very exposed, I doubt that industry condones dumb confused atheists.