₦airaland Forum

OgbeniSamm:
Buroda, please go back and re read. The best way to learn is to unlearn.

I greed with u "to learn is to unlearn". Nobody can take his or her post to front page xcpt Seun or hu ever Seun permits simply because we re not equal to him as far as NL is concerned...now Jesus did receive power from God, the question is y did he has to do so since equal means A = B and vice versa

ilynem:
Let me as plain and simple as possible. The trinity is one in being but three in persons. How is that so? As a being, I am human and as a person I am ilynem. Now God the father, the son and the Holy spirit are one in Being, or substance or essence in the sense that they are all God. But different in persons or you can say roles. In person, I am below President Buhari , I will always answer to him and he can command me to do anything. But that does not make me less than a human being.
Now Jesus role in the God head is to answer to the Father. That is His role. So in Being, they are one. In person they are three. Hense the Trinity. Any confusion?

.

benji93:
Bros, how does your example lend credence to trinity.You compare the duality of two different forms to the trinity of the same form.Now you claimed the angels must have been referring to the spirit being of the dead.So your body at moment is at best insignificant.However the components of trinity are significant in unison.There is no point where any of these components loses its significance.

This post wasn't meant for you. If you read the post, I was using Islamic theology (which of course Muslims can relate with) to show that Trinity/Duality doesn't connote different entities but the same entity manifesting in deferent forms.

If you were a Physicist, I will ask if you know about the Wave-Particle Duality of matter.

As a matter of fact, no Christian believe the Islamic version of what happens to a person in the grave.

Shafiiimran99:
I want simple answer YES or No

Yes

alBHAGDADI:
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


Did you read the above verse? People often quote it to support their notion that Yahshua the Messiah was just a prophet and not God. One thing they fail to do is check what he's responding to which helps to clarify what he said in the above verse. In verse 17 of that chapter, he was working on a Sabbath, and so he was approached by the Jews who were looking for the slightest excuse to nail him. The Sabbath is a day during which no work is to be done by any ISRAELite, but God is the only One who can work on that day cos he has to keep the universe going. For Jesus to be working on that day, they found it offensive.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

When Yahshua noticed their mood towards him, he made it clear to them why he has the right to work on a Sabbath day unlike other men.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

This statement of his clearly made him equal with God even as understood by the Jews cos it made them angry and sought the more to kill him. They knew anyone who accords himself the right to work on a Sabbath is making himself equal with God.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

You see, at this point, it gets interesting cos Yahshua made some statements that his persecutors of today have read wrong meanings into instead of allowing his words to read meanings to them. Pls, read the verse below.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Whenever Christians say Christ is God, some people of some other religious belief usually think we are calling him a separate deity. They come against it by quoting the part where he says "of himself he can do nothing", so he's just a prophet relying on God. What Yahshua the Messiah meant by making that statement is that if he was a separate deity on his own, he won't be able to do anything. But since he's part of God Almighty, he's able to do those things he does. If you read that verse 19 carefully, you will see that he affirms that strongly when he said he does what He sees God doing. This means that if God has the ability to sustain the universe, he also has that ability. But if he wasn't part of God but a separate deity, he won't be able to do those things himself.
If you read the succeeding verses, you will see how much of part of God Yahshua is when he speaks of how God loves him and shows him everything.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

He also spoke of how God gave him the same ability to raise the dead.

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

He continued by stating how God put every judgment in his hands.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


He went further to speak on how God gives him the right to be honoured the same way God himself is honoured.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Yahshua the Messiah says you have to honour him the same way you honour God. This is made possible by the fact stated above that he has the same attributes as God. Do you remember the words "The Son can do nothing of himself"? If he was a separate deity, he won't be able to do all this and would have a separate attribute. But since he's part of God with the same attribute, he can exercise the same power.

wow sure this is verse that adatip uses to deceive even pastors... but thank God for the clear revelation thru you....sabbath is the key to understand vers 19

Jdougha:
Quoting you it is very clear you still don't understand the doctrine of the God head.... Lemme ask you some few questions,
First if we're to believe that Jesus is God as you easily preach... Then
1, who died of the cross...
2, Who slept on the boat...
3, maybe you should read acts 2 vs38...
4,

Unconsciously, Islam limits the omniscience of God by fixing several things impossible for God to do.
Example,
1. Is it possible for God to be somewhere and everywhere at the same time?
2. Is it impossible for God to appear in form of anything Physical?
3. Is it possible for God to LOVE some of His creations?

These are food for thought questions which explains the basis of the Christian faith.

Remove Gods Love and ALL the Christian theology collapse like a pack of debris.

[quote author=Shafiiimran99 post=54737809][/quote]If you were a Muslim, you would have understood!

alBHAGDADI:
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


Did you read the above verse? People often quote it to support their notion that Yahshua the Messiah was just a prophet and not God. One thing they fail to do is check what he's responding to which helps to clarify what he said in the above verse. In verse 17 of that chapter, he was working on a Sabbath, and so he was approached by the Jews who were looking for the slightest excuse to nail him. The Sabbath is a day during which no work is to be done by any ISRAELite, but God is the only One who can work on that day cos he has to keep the universe going. For Jesus to be working on that day, they found it offensive.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

When Yahshua noticed their mood towards him, he made it clear to them why he has the right to work on a Sabbath day unlike other men.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

This statement of his clearly made him equal with God even as understood by the Jews cos it made them angry and sought the more to kill him. They knew anyone who accords himself the right to work on a Sabbath is making himself equal with God.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

You see, at this point, it gets interesting cos Yahshua made some statements that his persecutors of today have read wrong meanings into instead of allowing his words to read meanings to them. Pls, read the verse below.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Whenever Christians say Christ is God, some people of some other religious belief usually think we are calling him a separate deity. They come against it by quoting the part where he says "of himself he can do nothing", so he's just a prophet relying on God. What Yahshua the Messiah meant by making that statement is that if he was a separate deity on his own, he won't be able to do anything. But since he's part of God Almighty, he's able to do those things he does. If you read that verse 19 carefully, you will see that he affirms that strongly when he said he does what He sees God doing. This means that if God has the ability to sustain the universe, he also has that ability. But if he wasn't part of God but a separate deity, he won't be able to do those things himself.
If you read the succeeding verses, you will see how much of part of God Yahshua is when he speaks of how God loves him and shows him everything.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

He also spoke of how God gave him the same ability to raise the dead.

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

He continued by stating how God put every judgment in his hands.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


He went further to speak on how God gives him the right to be honoured the same way God himself is honoured.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Yahshua the Messiah says you have to honour him the same way you honour God. This is made possible by the fact stated above that he has the same attributes as God. Do you remember the words "The Son can do nothing of himself"? If he was a separate deity, he won't be able to do all this and would have a separate attribute. But since he's part of God with the same attribute, he can exercise the same power.

You need help. Read Philippians 2:5,6 American Standard Version

5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped.

Didn't this same Jesus said he can't do anything but what his father asked him to?

At Jesus baptism didn't God refer to Jesus as his son?

ilynem:
Yes

Luke 22:41-44
He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground. Y can't he take the cup away himself since he has the like God according xtians

Shafiiimran99:
Luke 22:41-44
He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground. Y can't he take the cup away himself since he has the like God according xtians

What you don't know, you don't know, except you open up your heart to, but since you are unwilling to do that, you will keep wallowing in your darkness by asking questions that you ordinarily would have understood( if you had the full knowledge of the Holy Gospel) in the hope of mocking or shaming Christians, but the reverse would be the case...

In answer to your Question, which you are likely not to understand,
The “cup” to which Jesus refers is the suffering He was about to endure. It’s as if Jesus were being handed a cup full of bitterness with the expectation that He drink all of it. Jesus had used the same metaphor in Matthew 20:22 when prophesying of the future suffering of James and John. When Jesus petitions the Father, “Let this cup pass from me,” He expresses the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering.

Jesus is fully God, but He is also fully human. His human nature, though perfect, still struggled with the need to accept the torture and shame that awaited Him; His flesh recoiled from the cross. In the same context, Jesus says to His disciples, “The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak” (Mathew 26:41). In praying, “Let this cup pass from me,” Jesus was battling the flesh and its desire for self-preservation and comfort. The struggle was intense: Jesus was “overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death” ( Matthew 26:38 ), and Luke the physician observed that Jesus was sweating blood—a sign of extreme anguish ( Luke 22:44 ). If anything shows that Jesus was indeed fully man, this prayer is it.

Jesus knew of what was to come (see
Mark 8:31 ). The agony He faced was going to be more than physical; it would be spiritual and emotional, as well. Jesus knew that God’s will was to crush Him, to allow Him to be “pierced for our transgressions” and wounded for our healing (Isaiah 53:5–10 ). Jesus loves mankind, but His humanity dreaded the pain and sorrow He faced, and it drove Him t“Let this cup pass from me.”

Jesus’ prayer to “let this cup pass from me” contains two important qualifications. First, He prays, “If it is possible.” If there was any other way to redeem mankind, Jesus asks to take that other way. The events following His prayer show that there was no other way; Jesus Christ is the only possible sacrifice to redeem the world (John 1:29 ; Acts 4:12 ; Hebrews 10:14 ;
Revelation 5:9 ). Second, Jesus prays, “Yet not as I will, but as you will.” Jesus was committed to the will of God, body, mind, and soul. The prayer of the righteous is always dependent on the will of God (see
Matthew 6:10 ).

Shafiiimran99:
Luke 22:41-44
He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground. Y can't he take the cup away himself since he has the like God according xtians

Hmmmm. There are some points to note here.
1. Jesus was human on earth. So he felt pain and emotions like any other human being.
2. Jesus has always been the son of God even before He was on earth. John 8:52 says Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" So he was before Abraham. He has always been the son of God. Gen 1:1 says in the beginning, God made the heavens and the earth. The Hebrew word for God used there was Elohim which is actually plural. That is God with an "s". So the Son of God has always been there.
3. Establishing that fact, you should go back and read my former reply to you. Jesus and God are equal in being and different in persons or roles. Jesus' role is to be submissive to the will of the Father, but that doesn't make Him any less than a God being. You are to obey your boss, but that doesn't make u less human than your boss. If I asked u, are you and your boss equal? You can reply yes cuz u are both distinct humans. But your role in the office is to obey him. Any more confusion

Wow. God bless you Sir for this post. I don't know what is wrong with those unbelieve, they claim the comforter Jesus Christ is talking about in John 16:7 was Muhammad. How can a prophet send another prophet? Lol so funny of them. Yet they call a prophet a messenger of God, truly Jesus Christ is God the son. Hallelujar

Matthew 27:46-50 King James Version (KJV)
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

For Jesus to have called my God as claimed by Bible in the above verse, it means he is not God in anyway. If he was, he would have controlled the situation himself.

OgbeniSamm:
Buroda, please go back and re read. The best way to learn is to unlearn.

Are you an ithinker?

Jesus is Lord.

Great Bro. Awesome revealing. Grace to you.

Shafiiimran99:
If u read ur post with open (neutral) mind u will realize that ur re contradicting yourself because ur post say Jesus does not equal to God. Eg in it u said God give him power to judge, why does he need power from God if he is equal to God? or don't u know what EQUAL mean

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Colossians 1:13‭-‬19 KJV
http://bible.com/1/col.1.13-19.KJV

Are you trying to establish JESUS share the same attribute with God. Oh ! Thats giving mysterious mightiness of God in derrogation of godhood to a mere servant. May God Almighty guide u guys to his right part.
And besides, I guess you've yet to come accross where jesus himself, mathew and st.paul, all call Jesus SERVANT of GOD. Even you xtain reading this is servant of God according to the bible.

Shafiiimran99:
I greed with u "to learn is to unlearn". Nobody can take his or her post to front page xcpt Seun or hu ever Seun permits simply because we re not equal to him as far as NL is concerned...now Jesus did receive power from God, the question is y did he has to do so since equal means A = B and vice versa

I'm too busy to start explaining to u sir....but one of my favorite verses in the Bible is where it says 'Wisdom is the principal thing'. The Bible isn't just an ordinary Book, you need to pray for the Holy Spirit to teach you to understand what is written therein.

alBHAGDADI:
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


Did you read the above verse? People often quote it to support their notion that Yahshua the Messiah was just a prophet and not God. One thing they fail to do is check what he's responding to which helps to clarify what he said in the above verse. In verse 17 of that chapter, he was working on a Sabbath, and so he was approached by the Jews who were looking for the slightest excuse to nail him. The Sabbath is a day during which no work is to be done by any ISRAELite, but God is the only One who can work on that day cos he has to keep the universe going. For Jesus to be working on that day, they found it offensive.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

When Yahshua noticed their mood towards him, he made it clear to them why he has the right to work on a Sabbath day unlike other men.

John 5:17 [b]But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

This statement of his clearly made him equal with God even as understood by the Jews cos it made them angry and sought the more to kill him. They knew anyone who accords himself the right to work on a Sabbath is making himself equal with God. [/b]

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

You see, at this point, it gets interesting cos Yahshua made some statements that his persecutors of today have read wrong meanings into instead of allowing his words to read meanings to them. Pls, read the verse below.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Whenever Christians say Christ is God, some people of some other religious belief usually think we are calling him a separate deity. They come against it by quoting the part where he says "of himself he can do nothing", so he's just a prophet relying on God. What Yahshua the Messiah meant by making that statement is that if he was a separate deity on his own, he won't be able to do anything. But since he's part of God Almighty, he's able to do those things he does. If you read that verse 19 carefully, you will see that he affirms that strongly when he said he does what He sees God doing. This means that if God has the ability to sustain the universe, he also has that ability. But if he wasn't part of God but a separate deity, he won't be able to do those things himself.
If you read the succeeding verses, you will see how much of part of God Yahshua is when he speaks of how God loves him and shows him everything.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

He also spoke of how God gave him the same ability to raise the dead.

John 5:21 [b]For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.[/b]

He continued by stating how God put every judgment in his hands.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


He went further to speak on how God gives him the right to be honoured the same way God himself is honoured.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Yahshua the Messiah says you have to honour him the same way you honour God. This is made possible by the fact stated above that he has the same attributes as God. Do you remember the words "The Son can do nothing of himself"? If he was a separate deity, he won't be able to do all this and would have a separate attribute. But since he's part of God with the same attribute, he can exercise the same power.

GIBBERISH fit for dustbin...

Deity dey get Father?

+++++

If you, alBAGHDADI call "God your Father" , do you mean you are equal with God?

John 5:18, the Jews fabricated a LIE against Jesus..
** John 10:36, did Jesus say the Jews LIED? Yes!
John 19:7, did the Jews confirmed they LIED in John 5:18 ? Yes !
+++++++++++++

John 4:34. John 14:28. John 7:16 did Jesus Christ says himself is INFERIOR to his God and Father who sent Jesus... ? Yes !

alBAGHDADI John 5:17 claim of equality is FALSEHOOD , na Jesus Christ talk am.
Even for heaven, Jesus Christ is ALWAYS OBEYING his God and Father. John 20:17. Revelations 3:5,11-12,21.

How can you claim to be somebody else equal when in heaven and earth ,he dey command you,give you work to do and Everything He does, you dey copy copy am every time?

I challenge alBAGHDADI to name just one assignment, one command wey Jesus give His Father to obey ...
Equality RUBBISH !

-----------------
STOP deceiving gullible people here with alBAGHDADI Falsehood and GIBBERISH..