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Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by donteanz(m): 9:08am On Jul 30, 2017
Over the years, i've heard the teachings of the bible on how Jesus had taught us on how to live a life that is pleasing unto God. Subsequent studying of the bible had lead me to uncover many things that has been disregarded.
The teachings of apostle Paul were different from that of the messiah and even contradicted some of the teachings and law of prophet Moses. And Jesus during his life time said, "for i have not come to change but to fulfil the law" of Moses.
I would be glad if anyone could help shed more light to this.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Pharaoh9(m): 9:09am On Jul 30, 2017
Hmm
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by donteanz(m): 9:24am On Jul 30, 2017
Pharaoh9:
Hmm
what is your view to this. Do help a curious mind.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by donteanz(m): 9:26am On Jul 30, 2017
Elder Meneski, today na sunday, na wetin you see for this matter.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 9:31am On Jul 30, 2017
Jesus operated a faith under Judaism that the promised Messiah has come. He still attended the synagogue, temple and did things according to the tradition of the Jews but with a new message of love and personal relationship with The Father.

Even Peter followed suit even after the Pentecost as well as all others who were with Christ during His time on earth BUT Paul was given a different mandate by Christ after his resurrection.

Christ on earth repeatedly talked about saving the Jews first before giving the crumbs to the Gentiles but we would never understand what happened after resurrection that he commissioned Paul specifically for the Gentile.

The gospel we hear today is more of the new mandate given to Paul and not the version Peter was mandated by Christ Himself to spread (ie Christian faith within Judaism) that's why Peter and Paul initially had some clash before they decided to take their respective gospel to their targeted audience.
Peter to the Jews
Paul to the Gentiles

Read Acts 15
If you consider vs 5, you will observe that certain believers in Christ were still Pharisees.
After the arguments, you read the final verdict in vs 29.
If you read the Bible well you will notice that from then onwards, Paul's teaching dominated the rest of the gospel.

3 Likes

Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by donteanz(m): 9:46am On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:
Jesus operated a faith under Judaism that the promised Messiah has come. He still attended the synagogue, temple and did things according to the tradition of the Jews but with a new message of love and personal relationship with The Father.

Even Peter followed suit even after the Pentecost as well as all others who were with Christ during His time on earth BUT Paul was given a different mandate by Christ after his resurrection.

Christ on earth repeatedly talked about saving the Jews first before giving the crumbs to the Gentiles but we would never understand what happened after resurrection that he commissioned Paul specifically for the Gentile.

The gospel we hear today is more of the new mandate given to Paul and not the version Peter was mandated by Christ Himself to spread (ie Christian faith within Judaism) that's why Peter and Paul initially had some clash before they decided to take their respective gospel to their targeted audience.
Peter to the Jews
Paul to the Gentiles

Read Acts 15
If you consider vs 5, you will observe that certain believers in Christ were still Pharisees.
After the arguments, you read the final verdict in vs 29.
If you read the Bible well you will notice that from then onwards, Paul's teaching dominated the rest of the gospel.
Thanks for the enlightenment. But, i do have one question, which is. Whose doctrines and teachings do the christians of today follow and abide with.

1 Like

Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by yhemster(m): 9:55am On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:
Jesus operated a faith under Judaism that the promised Messiah has come. He still attended the synagogue, temple and did things according to the tradition of the Jews but with a new message of love and personal relationship with The Father.

Even Peter followed suit even after the Pentecost as well as all others who were with Christ during His time on earth BUT Paul was given a different mandate by Christ after his resurrection.

Christ on earth repeatedly talked about saving the Jews first before giving the crumbs to the Gentiles but we would never understand what happened after resurrection that he commissioned Paul specifically for the Gentile.

The gospel we hear today is more of the new mandate given to Paul and not the version Peter was mandated by Christ Himself to spread (ie Christian faith within Judaism) that's why Peter and Paul initially had some clash before they decided to take their respective gospel to their targeted audience.

Peter to the Jews
Paul to the Gentiles

Read Acts 15
If you consider vs 5, you will observe that certain believers in Christ were still Pharisees.
After the arguments, you read the final verdict in vs 29.
If you read the Bible well you will notice that from then onwards, Paul's teaching dominated the rest of the gospel.
What I understand from this is that the gospel can be adapted to every audience culture and laws. Unlike the way some of our cultures and traditions have been abandoned in the name of religion cry.
May his spirit gives us more understanding of his words.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by donteanz(m): 9:59am On Jul 30, 2017
yhemster:

What I understand from this is that the gospel can be adapted to every audience culture and laws. Unlike the way some of our cultures and traditions have been abandoned in the name of religion cry.
May his spirit gives us more understanding of his words.

whose words, Jesus's word or that of Paul.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Yusuf001(m): 10:05am On Jul 30, 2017
donteanz:
Over the years, i've heard the teachings of the bible on how Jesus had taught us on how to live a life that is pleasing unto God. Subsequent studying of the bible had lead me to uncover many things that has been disregarded.
The teachings of apostle Paul were different from that of the messiah and even contradicted some of the teachings and law of prophet Moses. And Jesus during his life time said, "for i have not come to change but to fulfil the law" of Moses.
I would be glad if anyone could help shed more light to this.
food for thought
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by zionmade(m): 10:07am On Jul 30, 2017
donteanz:

Thanks for the enlightenment. But, i do have one question, which is. Whose doctrines and teachings do the christians of today follow and abide with.
the person u quoted did absolutely well. The doctrine of Paul is exactly the doctrine of Jesus. Jesus said that wen he goes to heaven he will send the spirit who is exactly the same as him the spirit will teach us all things and will take of that which belongs to the father and reveal it unto us. That same spirit was Paul's teacher. Everything Paul wrote or did he did by the Holyspirit who was the same spirit that dwelled in Jesus. So there is absolutely no difference.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by yhemster(m): 10:24am On Jul 30, 2017
donteanz:

whose words, Jesus's word or that of Paul.
All of the above, where there're contradictions Jesus's word will seem supreme with a good argument.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 10:26am On Jul 30, 2017
donteanz:

Thanks for the enlightenment. But, i do have one question, which is. Whose doctrines and teachings do the christians of today follow and abide with.
what did the bible teach ? how did Paul contradicts Jesus ?

1 Like

Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by meneski(m): 10:43am On Jul 30, 2017
children of God praize the Lord! You all are on point... I pray the Lord bless you with more understanding in Jesus name.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 10:45am On Jul 30, 2017
donteanz:

Thanks for the enlightenment. But, i do have one question, which is. Whose doctrines and teachings do the christians of today follow and abide with.
Mostly Paul's

But no matter the doctrine, Christ gave us just 2 commandments Matt 22: 37 - 40

Originally, we were just to live with these two commandments and adopt it to our respective cultures and traditions.
The Jewish Christians still went to temple but lived according to the love commandments
The other Christians in the Roman Empire adopted Christ teachings and streamlined with their culture and traditions which included
- setting aside the day they used to worship the Sun God to worship Christ
- incorporating the age long 3 in 1 godhead into Christianity as Father Son and Holy Spirit
- punishment by fire (purgatory) against Jewish punishment by crucifixion and stoning etc
Even the English established the Anglican communion, took away the teachings that where too "Romanic" and replace with the English culture

The problem was, when it got to Africa, instead of our fathers to incorporate the teachings of Christ into our respective cultures and traditions, we abandon everything to accept the Western world/culture version of Christianity and way of life.

Back to your question, I cannot say we are following Paul's teaching in the real sense though it is the foundation but the truth is, we are following the Roman Catholic version of Christianity and doctrines. What most do is to filter out some parts that they don't like for instance praying to Mary or using candles but essentially, it's all the same

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 11:02am On Jul 30, 2017
malvisguy212:
what did the bible teach ? how did Paul contradicts Jesus ?
The fundamental which most people tend to hinge their argument is Christ said He came only to the lost tribe of Israel Matt 15:24 but Paul maintained that the Gentiles have equal rights to grace

Peter was someone who followed Christ teachings word for word and was concerned about Jewish Christians first but the same Christ commanded him to go and attend to the gentile (which he was reluctant at first)

Read Acts 10 fully and especially vs 28, you will understand that Peter, the Rock on which Christ established His church, still considered himself "a Jew" first and had expected all followers of Christ to do the same and but not for Paul, probably, it would have been the same today
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by An2elect2(f): 11:15am On Jul 30, 2017
donteanz:

Thanks for the enlightenment. But, i do have one question, which is. Whose doctrines and teachings do the christians of today follow and abide with.
Paul because Paul was the instrument Christ used in reaching the Gentiles and the remnant of Jews who would all be saved by grace.




The Law was set aside on the cross. And the covenant of grace established and made effective from then to timeless eternity.

This is such a broad topic though
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 11:21am On Jul 30, 2017
An2elect2:




The Law was set aside on the cross. And the covenant of grace established and made effective from then to timeless eternity.

This is such a broad topic though
Though I have clarify this but I want you to reflect upon this
The law was indeed set aside on the cross but why did Peter (the chosen rock and foundation of the church) still insisted that new converts first of all become Jews or at least follow the Jewish laws
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by An2elect2(f): 11:37am On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

Though I have clarify this but I want you to reflect upon this
The law was indeed set aside on the cross but why did Peter (the chosen rock and foundation of the church) still insisted that new converts first of all become Jews or at least follow the Jewish laws
First of all, The foundation of the church is Christ not Peter. smiley

Secondly quote the Bible passage where Peter taught that Gentiles must follow Jewish laws before they are saved. The only ones I know where when Peter refused eating what was unclean in a trance and did "eye-service" to be accepted by Jewish Pharisaical Christians and that Paul rebuked immediately.

And even Peter confessed sometime
Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
Acts 10:34,35
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 12:19pm On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

The fundamental which most people tend to hinge their argument is Christ said He came only to the lost tribe of Israel Matt 15:24 but Paul maintained that the Gentiles have equal rights to grace

Peter was someone who followed Christ teachings word for word and was concerned about Jewish Christians first but the same Christ commanded him to go and attend to the gentile (which he was reluctant at first)

Read Acts 10 fully and especially vs 28, you will understand that Peter, the Rock on which Christ established His church, still considered himself "a Jew" first and had expected all followers of Christ to do the same and but not for Paul, probably, it would have been the same today
after the ressurection of Christ , He appeared to His disciples and gave them this command :
act 1:7
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be MY WITNESS in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, AND TO THE END OF THE EARTH.”

the disciples are to be His witness not only in Israel, but to the end of the earth, its include the Gentile nation.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 12:51pm On Jul 30, 2017
malvisguy212:
after the ressurection of Christ , He appeared to His disciples and gave them this command :
act 1:7
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be MY WITNESS in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, AND TO THE END OF THE EARTH.”

the disciples are to be His witness not only in Israel, but to the end of the earth, its include the Gentile nation.
To the ends of the earth, which they did of course but in Acts 15, some of those who bear witness "to the ends of the earth" came down from Judea and taught the brethren saying, except you be circumcise after the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 1:17pm On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

To the ends of the earth, which they did of course but in Acts 15, some of those who bear witness "to the ends of the earth" came down from Judea and taught the brethren saying, except you be circumcise after the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.
hey, bro stop saying what you don't understand. Paul himself correct their mistake, read the whole context.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 1:28pm On Jul 30, 2017
malvisguy212:
hey, bro stop saying what you don't understand. Paul himself correct their mistake, read the whole context.
Brother we are not talking about mistakes or corrections. Cos we are still correcting mistakes till today that's why we have 4 churches in the same building, all correcting mistakes and establishing their doctrines.

When I give Bible instances, I give the full chapter and point out the verse of interest. Paul didn't correct their mistakes, they all agreed to take up the issues with the elders which shows that it was not just a little issue or lack of understanding, it was a belief and even Paul on his own did not have the authority to make them believe otherwise
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by sorextee(m): 1:45pm On Jul 30, 2017
I learn new things daily..

ITbomb:

Mostly Paul's

But no matter the doctrine, Christ gave us just 2 commandments Matt 22: 37 - 40

Originally, we were just to live with these two commandments and adopt it to our respective cultures and traditions.
The Jewish Christians still went to temple but lived according to the love commandments
The other Christians in the Roman Empire adopted Christ teachings and streamlined with their culture and traditions which included
- setting aside the day they use to worship the Sun God to worship Christ
- incorporating the age long 3 in 1 godhead into Christianity as Father Sun and Holy Spirit
- punishment by fire (purgatory) against Jewish punishment by crucifixion and stoning etc
Even the English established the Anglican communion, took away the teachings that where too "Romanic" and replace with the English culture

The problem was, when it got to Africa, instead of our fathers to incorporate the teachings of Christ into our respective cultures and traditions, we abandon everything to accept the Western world/culture version of Christianity and way of life.

Back to your question, I cannot say we are following Paul's teaching in the real sense though it is the foundation but the truth is, we are following the Roman Catholic version of Christianity and doctrines. What most do is to filter out some parts that they don't like for instance praying to Mary or using candles but essentially, it's all the same
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 1:46pm On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

Brother we are not talking about mistakes or corrections. Cos we are still correcting mistakes till today that's why we have 4 churches in the same building, all correcting mistakes and establishing their doctrines.

When I give Bible instances, I give the full chapter and point out the verse of interest. Paul didn't correct their mistakes, they all agreed to take up the issues with the elders which shows that it was not just a little issue or lack of understanding, it was a belief and even Paul on his own did not have the authority to make them believe otherwise
the bible say we should rightly divide the word of truth, this mean we should understand the author intention and understand the context and identified the author audience. in Romans 1:16 Paul preach to the jews. Paul complement Jesus. Jesus tried to pull Jews away from a superficial religion of works that could not save anyone and pointed them toward the Cross that He would bear as a Substitutionary payment for the sin. this is exactly what Paul preach. Paul continue to established the teaching of salvation on the cross as a gift from God which is base upon JESUS.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 1:49pm On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

Peter to the Jews
Paul to the Gentiles

So what was all that business between Peter and Cornelius

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 1:55pm On Jul 30, 2017
justification by faith. john 5:24. Romans 5:1
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Wilgrea7(m): 2:13pm On Jul 30, 2017
Christianity is mainly built around Paul.. because the words of Paul serve as an “interpretation" of the words of Jesus
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Auki: 2:15pm On Jul 30, 2017
Jesus brought pure monotheism, like Abraham, Moses, Muhammad etc. Worshipping of God alone without partners, Son, wife, Trinity.

Paul invented polytheism or Christianity. Turning Jesus to God, Son or the so-called triune God.

Those who followed Jesus teaching Paradise will be your abode. Those who followed Paul, Hell fire will your final resting place

1 Like

Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by donteanz(m): 2:30pm On Jul 30, 2017
Auki:
Jesus brought pure monotheism, like Abraham, Moses, Muhammad etc. Worshipping of God alone without partners, Son, wife, Trinity.

Paul invented polytheism or Christianity. Turning Jesus to God, Son or the so-called triune God.

Those who followed Jesus teaching Paradise will be your abode. Those who followed Paul, Hell fire will your final resting place
good, could throw some more light to the dark pls.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 2:43pm On Jul 30, 2017
Wilgrea7:
Christianity is mainly built around Paul.. because the words of Paul serve as an “interpretation" of the words of Jesus

I think what actually happened was that the gospel that Paul taught won out over all the other forms of christianity. Without a doubt there were other christians that contradicted Paul. Many of them included Jesus' actual followers and disciples.

For example, many see the Letter of James as making reference to the teachings of Paul and contradicting them.


2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3

22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror.

James1

You can say that James is attacking Paul's doctrine. Or alternatively you can say that James is attacking other people that have twisted Paul's doctrine to mean that you don't have to buttress Faith with Actions/Works.

17So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2


I don't believe that jive that Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and Peter to the Jews. Did Paul start the church in Rome? When Paul wrote his letter to the Romans was there not already a bubbling church there, and Paul hadn't even smelled Rome talk less of stepping foot in Rome. So someone else already established the Church in Rome.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 2:58pm On Jul 30, 2017
To add some spice to the whole question of biblical interpretations and how to interpret bible passages here is a great example of how two people can take the very same bible passage and interpret it to mean 2 diametric contradicting meanings.


Genesis 15: 6

6Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.


Paul takes this passage and interprets it like this:

3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Romans 4


James in direct contradiction takes the same passage ( and this part of the reason why scholars think that he particularly has Paul's doctrines in mind when writing) and says:

22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone


James 2.


Same passage. 2 totally different doctrines. So much for using the bible to interpret the bible.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Nobody: 3:00pm On Jul 30, 2017
This is why I hate dogmas and doctrines.

"Love your God and love your neighbors as you love yourself"

what else do you need again to be a good person?

Na wa oh

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