₦airaland Forum

Npcomplete u are a genius.... kudos dude... thank God we still have sane people like u in this hell hole... the poverty is driving the homophobes insane

primitive Nigerian homophobic men do all manner of atrocities like robbery, ritual, kidnapping just to afford Dolce & Gabbana (gay couple)'s goods.... then come online claiming "gays are destroying our holy saint Nigeria". who is fooling who

shaybebaby:
So not built on Christian principles?
How about Cuba, Russia under the USSR, Albania as it is today which is majority Christian and Muslim yet were/some are still communist states, what do we attribute their failure to?
The same communism, adherence to religion or what?
If religion, which one?
If communism, why is China successful?
If China's success comes from educating their citizens in the west, then we can say that the West is doing something right.

If the west is doing something right that guarantees their success, then what is it?

You say it was founded on Christian principles, what of you were given evidence that this is not the case, then what next?

Ask yourself this, why are these countries running to school overseas, learn their principles take them home and apply?
When did Cuba become Communist? Wasn't it Catholic for Centuries?

shaybebaby:
If China's success comes from educating their citizens in the west, then we can say that the West is doing something right.

Are we still talking about the Principles which built the West? Aren't those Principle responsible for the West being what they are hence; attract other countries to go over there, learn, go back home and apply them?


[quote author=shaybebaby post=59460101]If the west is doing something right that guarantees their success, then what is it?
The West is standing on a foundation which makes them a model for others to copy. But, this discourse is about an agenda which is geared towards destroying that foundation.
Homosexuals LGTB will ultimately destroy everything godly. The foundation was godly and satan has been working quietly, patiently to break down this foundation, after he succeeds, what do you think will happen?

Am glad you are advocating for them now, a time will come you'd wish you didn't.

shaybebaby:
When one doesn't understand, is it not to ask questions?

I see

[/quote]there are so many things wrong with this post

1. There's no such thing as "Homosexual Policy" or "Homosexual Principles", I see absolutely no reason to pit communism and homosexuality, they shouldn't be compared cuz one is s system of governance and the other is simply a law[/quote]There's no such thing as Homosexual policy yet you called it 'Part of American Law' which Obama tried tobforce other countries to adopt.

Today in America is conflict as to whether to allow transgendered males to female to use the same Bathrooms and locker rooms with other ladies, whether they should be allowed in the Army or their sport games. If the law covers them, what will you call those laws?
Is the Word 'principle' confusing us? A principle is a law, statute, ordinance, etc

I didn't pitch Communism with Homosexuality. No, i didn't.

Communism is a system of government and homosexuality is a law. Yes, but laws makes up the government, yeah? Without the law, there won't be any government. Still, i didn't compare them.

hopefulLandlord:
2. Bobrisky and Denrele ARE NOT GAY as far as the being gay is concerned cuz

If there are not gay, who are they pls? They dress like women talk, walk and act like women yet have sex with who?

hopefulLandlord:
i they've NEVER been caught in gay acts

Hahahahahahahahhaa. Wow, Bobrisky just posted pictures of him with his new white gay partner, until they do a video before can believe them? Denrele or whatever his name is, kisses guys everyday, snaps and posts them.
Guy, are you even serious with this? This people know that there's a law which 'should' work against them if caught, but it won't because almost all those who shd prosecute are doing it and are even patronising the likes of Bobrisky.

Very soon Bob will do a video for you so that you'd believe.

hopefulLandlord:
ii they're simply regarded as " Crossdreasers" and you're conflating that term with being gay which they're NOT

Does crossgenders/crossdressers have sex? If yes, who do they have sex with? Does Bob have sex with men or women?

quote author=hopefulLandlord post=59459526]
iii Females Crossdress EVERYDAY in nigeria and NO one calls them Homosexuals[/quote]One of such female cross dresser is? Name pls. And who do they have sex with?
I hope you know homosexuality covers males and females not just males?

quote author=hopefulLandlord post=59459526]
there was a question I last asked you and you've refused to reply till now so I'll ask again,

you said the below


What do you mean by "Homosexual Principles?[/quote]And i have given you and answer, or maybe you want me to give an answer you want.

A principle is an edict passed into law, which Homosexuality is. A principle is a law which guides and guards how we handle our lives.

Today in America, it's generally acceptable as a law to marry male/male, female/female and allow them adopt kids they fight to destroy.

A mother openly having sex with her own daughter and the government says its okay as long as they are in love, they can marry.

In oder for their partners to see them as women, the government permits them to have a sex change.

Today, humans can comfortably wed their dogs and Horses and other human beings will attend their weddings. Their governments have that in their constitutions. All these are under the umbrella of LGTB

What do you call Principles if not these^^^?

701ecilana:
there are so many things wrong with this post

1. There's no such thing as "Homosexual Policy" or "Homosexual Principles", I see absolutely no reason to pit communism and homosexuality, they shouldn't be compared cuz one is s system of governance and the other is simply a law
There's no such thing as Homosexual policy yet you called it 'Part of American Law' which Obama tried tobforce other countries to adopt.

Today in America is conflict as to whether to allow transgendered males to female to use the same Bathrooms and locker rooms with other ladies, whether they should be allowed in the Army or their sport games. If the law covers them, what will you call those laws?
Is the Word 'principle' confusing us? A principle is a law, statute, ordinance, etc

I didn't pitch Communism with Homosexuality. No, i didn't.

Communism is a system of government and homosexuality is a law. Yes, but laws makes up the government, yeah? Without the law, there won't be any government. Still, i didn't compare them.


2. Bobrisky and Denrele ARE NOT GAY as far as the being gay is concerned cuz
If there are not gay, who are they pls? They dress like women talk, walk and act like women yet have sex with who?


i they've NEVER been caught in gay acts
Hahahahahahahahhaa. Wow, Bobrisky just posted pictures of him with his new white gay partner, until they do a video before can believe them? Denrele or whatever his name is, kisses guys everyday, snaps and posts them.
Guy, are you even serious with this? This people know that there's a law which 'should' work against them if caught, but it won't because almost all those who shd prosecute are doing it and are even patronising the likes of Bobrisky.

Very soon Bob will do a video for you so that you'd believe.


ii they're simply regarded as " Crossdreasers" and you're conflating that term with being gay which they're NOT
Does crossgenders/crossdressers have sex? If yes, who do they have sex with? Does Bob have sex with men or women?

quote author=hopefulLandlord post=59459526]
iii Females Crossdress EVERYDAY in nigeria and NO one calls them Homosexuals
One of such female cross dresser is? Name pls. And who do they have sex with?
I hope you know homosexuality covers males and females not just males?

quote author=hopefulLandlord post=59459526]
there was a question I last asked you and you've refused to reply till now so I'll ask again,

you said the below


What do you mean by "Homosexual Principles?
And i have given you and answer, or maybe you want me to give an answer you want.

A principle is an edict passed into law, which Homosexuality is. A principle is a law which guides and guards how we handle our lives.

Today in America, it's generally acceptable as a law to marry male/male, female/female and allow them adopt kids they fight to destroy.

A mother openly having sex with her own daughter and the government says its okay as long as they are in love, they can marry.

In oder for their partners to see them as women, the government permits them to have a sex change.

Today, humans can comfortably wed their dogs and Horses and other human beings will attend their weddings. Their governments have that in their constitutions. All these are under the umbrella of LGTB

What do you call Principles if not these^^^?

I still find it near impossible to understand this post due to the formatting but I'll give it a shot

misconceptions upon misconceptions upon misconceptions in this post

Educate yourself on Bobrisky https://entertainment.naij.com/958881-nigerian-male-barbie-bobrisky-opens-gay-status-talks-marriage.html

Women that crossdress are either called Women OR TOMBOYS

so to paraphrase your sentence "If there are not Lesbians, who are they pls? They dress like men talk, walk and act like men yet have sex with who?"

you see the problem you get yourself into when you conflate crossdressing and homosexuality?

you also threw this question at me "Does Bob have sex with men or women?", its you that needs to answer this since you called him gay, you need to prove he's had sex with men, tell us please

and the part about "principles" below are the meaning of the word

1. a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behaviour or for a chain of reasoning.
2. a general scientific theorem or law that has numerous special applications across a wide field.
3. a fundamental source or basis of something.

I don't know where you got your own definitions, kindly educate us

below is USA's principles

the right to one’s own life (which includes that which one has worked for)

the right to one’s own liberty (freedom to live the way you want provided you don’t hurt anyone else)

the right to pursue one’s own happiness (not everyone else’s—yours)

that is a "principle"

homosexuality CAN'T be a principle if those definitions were anything to go unless you show how homosexuality can be a "principle "

Homosexuality is NOT even a law, there's ONLY a law ON homosexuality, its like saying Stealing is a law or heterosexuality is a law; there are laws ON this thing but they aren't law on their own

those are the parts I could get from your post

let's go back to your point, I asked what you mean by "Homosexual principles" and you used Obama as example, below was your post

Look at Obama and what he spent time travelling the world trying to implement, you'd see.

MY POINT is that what Obama did was NOT based on homosexuality cuz there are lots of other things he wanted other countries to adopt, you just picked one part you disagree with and used that as "Principle" behind Obama's actions, you're missing the forest for trees!!!!!!

701ecilana:
Yes they did. I believe KingEbukasblog once posted thier foundations in this forum once.

Then I think you need to define what you mean by christian foundations.

701ecilana:
Why should be angry for being called a gay? Am offended at being called straight? You shouldn't be. Wear it gallantly. Bobrisky is.

You intention when you used it was to provoke a heated reaction, your use of the word "gay" here and later says as much-please do try to be more mature in your discussions. I am not gay but I don't find being called gay an insult.

701ecilana:
It alters and distorts the order of the family.

How? "Family" is a social construct, there is no fixed composition of a family.

701ecilana:
It devalues humans.

Again how?

701ecilana:
I have never seen a dog having sex with a male dog, neither i have seen a pig. and they have sex openly. Why humans? Do you watch Natgeo wild? Have you ever seen any male animal having sex with their fellow males ignoring the females?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals#Some_selected_species_and_groups

There are numerous examples in this article, this speaks to the naturalness of homosexuality.

701ecilana:
Homosexual scientist have been in research centers for years trying to find out why they are gays, they haven't discovered anything, not they are trying to become animals by saying animals have the tendcies for homosexuality, yet am kin to see any male Lion, Tiger or dog having sex with their same sex, i have never seen.

The study of human sexuality and sexual orientation is not recent and is neither restricted to homosexual scientists and homosexuality, it is focused on understanding the basis of human sexuality generally, you would be interested to know that there is no conclusive understanding on the basis for human sexuality including heterosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation#Causes

701ecilana:
Another problem is that you guys bring into humanity deathly and incurable diseases. More is yet to come from you guys. Problem is, it gets passed round by Bisexuals.

What specific disease did homosexuals "bring into humanity"-Notice you said "bring into humanity" here. Furthermore, why does it seem like you have an issue accepting the fact that I am not gay.

701ecilana:
Go for deliverance. You are possessed by demons, and am serious right now. Not smiling.

Non-existent demons?.

701ecilana:
No, there won't be anything wrong if males can have ovaries to fertilize the Ovums.
You forget that to adopt a child, you'd you'd need the male and female components or cells to bring about the Child in the first place. Whether you do it inside the womb or outside. It takes two. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve or Ada and Eve. Get it?

Okay so I still don't see exactly what your point is here?

701ecilana:
Relatively developed? You mean these countries were relatively developed before they were introduced to the Christian's principles? Hmmm. We have to given kudos to the Christian Principles then, see how develooed these countries became since they adopted Christian principles.

I think you need to re-read this sentence, you did not make sense. Relatively developed as in, for the time period they existed in?, as in relative to other societies at the time?...

701ecilana:
Guy, you are light&darkness, you obviously are confused, for light and darkness don't co habit, there'll be Chaos.
Are you sure you read? Pls do yourself a favour and read the foundations of Europe and how barbaric and savaged they were before Christianity got to them. And of course America.

At this time I am convinced you are trying to use insults to distract me. Anyway before Christianity-In Europe-we had the Roman Empire-Largely pagans whose culture today still influences law, philosophy, and art., the minoans, the mycenaeans and the greek cities and states that followed whose culture also still influences modern day society, the ancient kingdom of Macedonia and more. All of which had established political, legal, and social structures. So your association of Christianity with development or civilization is false. On america, the native americans had their own cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Culture and I think you are unaware of the actual effect of European colonization on the indigenous americans http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-3 http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/native-americans/. If you think believed cultural superiority is sufficient to justify military conquest then there are a lot of African countries-maybe even Nigeria-that should be colonized all over again.

JustMercy:
http://umcachapeltanke.org/homosexuality-a-moral-wrong-or-human-right/


HOMOSEXUALITY: A MORAL WRONG OR HUMAN RIGHT?
Posted on April 3, 2017 by Olusegun Odebiri
DEFINITION

Homosexuality can be defined as persistent and predominant orientation towards a person of same sex. The pre-fix ‘homo’ derives from a Greek word which means “like” or “same”.[1] Male homosexuals are commonly called ‘Gays’ and female homosexuals are referred to as ‘Lesbians’. Homosexuality manifests itself in the development of loving relationships with persons of the same sex and could even show itself by lack of interest in the opposite sex and in normal marriage of a man and a woman.
EMERGENCE TO PUBLIC GLARE, ITS DEMAND AND THE CHALLENGE

Although homosexuality is an ancient phenomenon, its emergence and public debate is recent. According to Marmor, homosexual is evidenced in pre-historic art as well as in the pictographs and hieroglyphs of ancient culture. Ancient Hebrews, Egyptians and Assyrians had laws against homosexual practice. Some pagan culture punished it severely[2]

However in the 1970s and early 80s homosexuals won a great deal of freedom in many parts of the world. Before this time, most homosexuals conceal their sexuality as a shameful secret. They emerged from the shadows not as quiescence but as co-workers, family members, and political lobbyists, unwilling to remain hidden any longer. They claim to be ordinary people who should not be denied civil rights – the right to teach in schools, adopt children, serve in the military, or pastor a church. To be despised for an attribute as accidental as race, they say, is unwarranted prejudice.[3]

Consequently, in many parts of the world, those freedoms have been incorporated in Human Rights legislation which can be used against Christians and others who may speak against homosexual relationships and practices. They want their partnerships to be accorded the same status and recognition as traditional marriage of male and female by the society. In America, where homosexual ‘civil contract’ has been introduced, homosexual divorces are now occurring! They are even claiming right in the ministry of many churches and have achieved it. Such is the United Church of Canada.[4] In the recent past, the Anglican Communion world-wide hotly debated the issue of ordination of homosexuals as priests. The major resistance was from the minority.

To say the least, homosexuality should bear a special concern for the church. First, the church’s historically and appropriate high view of the scripture is threatened by efforts at revising the church’s position on homosexuality.[5] Secondly, the church need not be casual about this because the Bible treats homosexuality as an act to be condemned, but our society is treating it as a fundamental element of personal identity. There is no legitimacy to defining a person by his or her sexual desires or any other fallen element of one’s nature.

This is not really new; the Church in each generation has been faced with new challenges, which according to Jones are “new twists on old issues”. The ‘new twist’ is to see gay persons as a social group that must be loved and accepted as they are, but the ‘old issue’ is to diminish the authority of God’s revelation, understand and accept people on their terms rather than God’s view of them, and fundamentally to amend the nature of Christ’s call to take up our crosses and follow Him.[6]


GROUNDS FOR THE PROPAGANDA

The grounds used by Homosexuals to gain public view and demand civil rights include the following:

The population of those who are homosexuals. A long acclaimed population of ten percent was used to whip up emotions as significant enough fraction to be accorded civil rights. While this population has long been disputed and refuted, the more agreed population is between 1and 4 percent; but should the population even be much more than 10 percent, would it matter if when faced with God’s demand, it falls short?
The Source of Homosexuals. The claim of homosexuals is that they were so born. Twenty five years old Lesbian was said to have written in a publication appealing to all “homophobic individuals” to correct their understandings. She wrote: “A person’s sexual orientation is a natural part of a person… It is God-given. Since it is what nature intended, it should be celebrated. It can’t possibly be immoral”[7] But according to Ray, Homosexuals are not a third sex. They are not accident of creation or procreation. They are ordinary people who early in life responded to their emotional stresses and strains with wrong attitudes and wrong actions which develop into serious neuroses.[8] This is in consonance with Gadapaille who stated that “the cross-cultural data clearly shows that adult homosexuality does not naturally develop in human cultures or families where heterosexual bias is allowed expression and fostered.[9]

Homosexual orientation cannot be changed. Following from the above that it is by nature and not by nurture, the homosexuals argue that the sexual orientation cannot be reversed. Thus they have no choice but remain homosexuals for life. It is however proved that their sexual orientation can be reversed. Some clinical report has 66 percent success rate in changing homosexual orientation. It should also quickly be added that these are purely human means apart from the incomparably great effect that divine grace and the power of the Holy Spirit can impact.[10]

CAUSE(S) OF HOMOSEXUAL ORIENTATION

The causes of homosexual orientation are hotly debated in research circle. The presumed ones include the following:

Few choose to have homosexual inclination. A man can almost choose to be or do anything. The bent of man’s will and his exploration quest has resulted in homosexuality for some persons.
Genetic and Chromosomal Factors may give some a bent to homosexuality. Dr. Money, a leading authority on the physiological aspect of human sexuality by research is said to conclude that there is no evidence to support the hypothesis that homosexuals or bisexuals of any degree or type are chromosomally discrepant from heterosexuals. Sex hormones may be crucial for the physiological development of the organs needed for the sexual acts and for increasing their sensitivity to stimulation, psychological factors are the crucial elements that influence the choice of sexual partners and the intensity of the emotions, he claims.[11]

Disordered Family Relationship that have people confused at a deep level about their sexual identity. Many Lesbians seem to have been sexually abused by men early in life, this could result in a deeply impaired ability to trust or feel free to be close to men later. For instance, the combination of a domineering mother and a father who is detached or hostile can contribute to this condition. But we must note that some homosexuals do not have this background and there are persons with such background that do not have homosexual tendencies.

It is learned behavior brought about by seduction or initiation. This is found to be the experience of many.

Concluding on what causes homosexual tendencies, Hooker states it is multi-factorial. The variables include biological, cultural, psychodynamic, structural and situational factors.[12] If this is correct, we can draw inference from Biblical perspective that the genesis of homosexuality is not a matter of nature to the exclusion of nurture or vice versa. It is rather a combination of both. Man in his falling nature interacting with a social environment which itself bears the marks of sin, and homosexuality is one of the distortion that can result from that interaction.[13] The Bible, though acknowledging these imperfections do hold man responsible for the way he interacts with his world.
ARGUMENTS ON HOMOSEXUALITY

The following is representative of arguments on homosexual acts:

There should be no sexual constraint for consenting adults. What they do is their own moral business. A person has right to do with his body whatever he chooses. If mutual adults consent is equal to a right, what if the adults consent to Rob, kill or kidnap will it earn a right? An individual is not the ultimate standard of what is right or wrong.
The right of privacy protects homosexuality. Privacy is a constitutional right and as such the heterosexual majority has no right to impose their morality on the homosexual minority. Is right of privacy right of immorality? There is for instance no right to private rape.

Homosexuals have civil rights too like other minority groups. Denial is discrimination and discrimination is morally and socially wrong. There are no homosexual rights, homosexuals have rights as citizens but not as homosexuals for there is no right to do wrong. There is no civil right to do a moral wrong. There may then be advocacy for Murderers’ right, rapists’ right etc.

Morals have changed since ancient times. E.g. Pre-marital sex is viewed differently now. Morality does not change. Basic moral principles don’t change, what changes is our understanding and performances of them. Geisler states “Unchanging moral values with changing moral practice confuses morals and mores”[14]

THE SOCIAL VICES AND DAMAGES OF HOMOSEXUALITY

A look of the contribution of homosexuality to the society can become a way to assess the worth for its quest for civil rights. Its contribution includes the following:

Male homosexuality tends to be strongly associated with promiscuity. The famous Bell Memberg study suggested that about one-third of gays have had over one thousand sexual partners in their life’s times. Very few gays are in committed long-term relationships. Less than 10 percent of gays are in such relationships. Those who are in stable relationship do not tend to be sexually monogamous. McWhirter and Mattison, a Gay Couple themselves found that zero percent of the one hundred stable couple they studied were sexually monogamous after being together for five years. They said, to be gay is to be non-monogamous and that monogamy is unnatural state that some gay men attempt because of their internalized homophobia, so when you finally grow to accept your own gayness they said, you shed your monogamy as butterfly shed a cocoon.[15]
It produces unstable relationships. Apart from having many partners, characteristic to homosexuals, those in “stable relationships” are really unstable. For instance in ‘homosexual-friendly’ Scandinavian countries, where same-sex ‘civil union’ type relationships have existed for 10 years, male-male union breakdown (‘divorce’) is 50% higher than heterosexual unions. For female-female coupling the breakdown figure is 170% higher.[16]

Spread of Diseases. Homosexuality is responsible for the majority of new cases of sexually transmitted diseases (STDS). 50 percent of new cases of Syphilis occur in the homosexual population. Homosexual is five times more likely to contact syphilis than his heterosexual peer. Rectal gonorrhea is associated with anal intercourse. Also Hepatitis B. virus and Recta Cancer[17]

Homosexual practices are threats to lives. Another social concern is AIDS. Homosexual is noted to spread it. It does to non-homosexuals: hemophiliacs, user of common needle, medical workers, wives of bisexuals and others. Predictions are that millions of people will die as a direct or indirect result of homosexual practices that pass on this fatal virus.[18]

These go on to show that homosexuality is a social and civil menace. Rational society would want to defend itself against activities that endanger the lives of its citizen.


THE CHRISTIAN STANCE ON HOMOSEXUALITY

Whereas there have been arguments based on the Biblical passages on homosexual activities, few years back it would be generally concluded that the Bible is clearly against homosexual acts. The traditional view on such scriptures such as Gen. 19, Lev. 18, Jdg. 7, Rom.1:26-27, 1 Cor.6:9, 1Tim.1:10, was unanimous. This however has changed. Some scholars opined that these Bible texts on which the past condemnation of homosexuality was based are more complicated than may appear to literal minded reader.[19] It is as though the Bible has no great relevance to our modern problems. This statement credited to Scroggs is apt on this: “Not only is the New Testament Church uninterested in the topic, it has nothing new to say about it… Biblical judgments against homosexuality are not relevant to today’s debate.”[20] Thus homosexual acts have reasons why it must be accepted.

It is however striking that every time homosexual practice is mentioned in the scriptures, it is condemned. Jones expressed that there are only two ways to neutralize the Biblical witness: by gross misinterpretation or by moving away from high view of scripture.[21] The passages mentioned above are certainly important, but they are not the core of Christian stance that homosexual action is immoral. What is central is the Biblical vision of sexuality which applies equally to homosexual and heterosexual persons, men and women, adults and children. The heart of Christian sexual morality is that God made sexual union for a purpose; it is for the unity of husband and wife into one flesh in marriage. God uses sexual intercourse, full sexual intimacy to weld two different people together (1 Cor.6:11). God’s purpose for sex and marriage is bigger than simply a means to get our sexual needs met, have fun, have children and not have to be lonely. These are included benefits though, but God has a bigger purpose.[22]

This bigger purpose is revealed in Ephesians 5. Marriage is to illustrate what God wants in the relationship between Christ and His bride, the church. We are different from God but He wants to unite with us (1Cor.6:17). This reality can be uniquely modeled on earth through the union of two different human beings, male and female. Marriage is a living parable, a concrete symbol that models for the world the mystical union between Christ and His people.[23]
CONCLUSION

In the light of all stated above, it becomes very clear that homosexuality is not a question of human right but a moral question, indeed it is a moral wrong. The existence of inclinations, orientations or preferences has little to do with God’s moral call upon our lives. The goals that God ordained are legitimate and binding. However, this should not banish homosexuals from Christian touch of love especially as the luring into it is continuous. Indeed it should endear Christians to homosexuals. They should be seen as persons in captivity of their passion and hence objects of mercy. They are people for whom the sacrifice of Christ can atone. They need to know that there is hope of freedom. Awareness on homosexuality should be made first to denominational and congregational leaders. This is to serve not only to have them informed in balanced and enlightened form but to cause them to stand firmly, intelligently and vocally against homosexuality crusade as its creeping in for debate even with our national law makers. Christians should aim to reach homosexuals for the Lord and also have them rehabilitated. Jones speaks of ideal, chaste singleness as open and accessible to any homosexual. He states further that this holds out the possibility for true integrity and beauty as the models of Jesus Himself, Paul and many other saints show.[24] This is crucial because a moral wrong can never become the basis for human right.

http://umcachapeltanke.org/homosexuality-a-moral-wrong-or-human-right/

Cc: Hopefullandlord. All your questions are answered here.

JustMercy:
http://umcachapeltanke.org/homosexuality-a-moral-wrong-or-human-right/


HOMOSEXUALITY: A MORAL WRONG OR HUMAN RIGHT?
Posted on April 3, 2017 by Olusegun Odebiri
DEFINITION

Homosexuality can be defined as persistent and predominant orientation towards a person of same sex. The pre-fix ‘homo’ derives from a Greek word which means “like” or “same”.[1] Male homosexuals are commonly called ‘Gays’ and female homosexuals are referred to as ‘Lesbians’. Homosexuality manifests itself in the development of loving relationships with persons of the same sex and could even show itself by lack of interest in the opposite sex and in normal marriage of a man and a woman.
EMERGENCE TO PUBLIC GLARE, ITS DEMAND AND THE CHALLENGE

Although homosexuality is an ancient phenomenon, its emergence and public debate is recent. According to Marmor, homosexual is evidenced in pre-historic art as well as in the pictographs and hieroglyphs of ancient culture. Ancient Hebrews, Egyptians and Assyrians had laws against homosexual practice. Some pagan culture punished it severely[2]

However in the 1970s and early 80s homosexuals won a great deal of freedom in many parts of the world. Before this time, most homosexuals conceal their sexuality as a shameful secret. They emerged from the shadows not as quiescence but as co-workers, family members, and political lobbyists, unwilling to remain hidden any longer. They claim to be ordinary people who should not be denied civil rights – the right to teach in schools, adopt children, serve in the military, or pastor a church. To be despised for an attribute as accidental as race, they say, is unwarranted prejudice.[3]

Consequently, in many parts of the world, those freedoms have been incorporated in Human Rights legislation which can be used against Christians and others who may speak against homosexual relationships and practices. They want their partnerships to be accorded the same status and recognition as traditional marriage of male and female by the society. In America, where homosexual ‘civil contract’ has been introduced, homosexual divorces are now occurring! They are even claiming right in the ministry of many churches and have achieved it. Such is the United Church of Canada.[4] In the recent past, the Anglican Communion world-wide hotly debated the issue of ordination of homosexuals as priests. The major resistance was from the minority.

To say the least, homosexuality should bear a special concern for the church. First, the church’s historically and appropriate high view of the scripture is threatened by efforts at revising the church’s position on homosexuality.[5] Secondly, the church need not be casual about this because the Bible treats homosexuality as an act to be condemned, but our society is treating it as a fundamental element of personal identity. There is no legitimacy to defining a person by his or her sexual desires or any other fallen element of one’s nature.

This is not really new; the Church in each generation has been faced with new challenges, which according to Jones are “new twists on old issues”. The ‘new twist’ is to see gay persons as a social group that must be loved and accepted as they are, but the ‘old issue’ is to diminish the authority of God’s revelation, understand and accept people on their terms rather than God’s view of them, and fundamentally to amend the nature of Christ’s call to take up our crosses and follow Him.[6]


GROUNDS FOR THE PROPAGANDA

The grounds used by Homosexuals to gain public view and demand civil rights include the following:

The population of those who are homosexuals. A long acclaimed population of ten percent was used to whip up emotions as significant enough fraction to be accorded civil rights. While this population has long been disputed and refuted, the more agreed population is between 1and 4 percent; but should the population even be much more than 10 percent, would it matter if when faced with God’s demand, it falls short?
The Source of Homosexuals. The claim of homosexuals is that they were so born. Twenty five years old Lesbian was said to have written in a publication appealing to all “homophobic individuals” to correct their understandings. She wrote: “A person’s sexual orientation is a natural part of a person… It is God-given. Since it is what nature intended, it should be celebrated. It can’t possibly be immoral”[7] But according to Ray, Homosexuals are not a third sex. They are not accident of creation or procreation. They are ordinary people who early in life responded to their emotional stresses and strains with wrong attitudes and wrong actions which develop into serious neuroses.[8] This is in consonance with Gadapaille who stated that “the cross-cultural data clearly shows that adult homosexuality does not naturally develop in human cultures or families where heterosexual bias is allowed expression and fostered.[9]

Homosexual orientation cannot be changed. Following from the above that it is by nature and not by nurture, the homosexuals argue that the sexual orientation cannot be reversed. Thus they have no choice but remain homosexuals for life. It is however proved that their sexual orientation can be reversed. Some clinical report has 66 percent success rate in changing homosexual orientation. It should also quickly be added that these are purely human means apart from the incomparably great effect that divine grace and the power of the Holy Spirit can impact.[10]

CAUSE(S) OF HOMOSEXUAL ORIENTATION

The causes of homosexual orientation are hotly debated in research circle. The presumed ones include the following:

Few choose to have homosexual inclination. A man can almost choose to be or do anything. The bent of man’s will and his exploration quest has resulted in homosexuality for some persons.
Genetic and Chromosomal Factors may give some a bent to homosexuality. Dr. Money, a leading authority on the physiological aspect of human sexuality by research is said to conclude that there is no evidence to support the hypothesis that homosexuals or bisexuals of any degree or type are chromosomally discrepant from heterosexuals. Sex hormones may be crucial for the physiological development of the organs needed for the sexual acts and for increasing their sensitivity to stimulation, psychological factors are the crucial elements that influence the choice of sexual partners and the intensity of the emotions, he claims.[11]

Disordered Family Relationship that have people confused at a deep level about their sexual identity. Many Lesbians seem to have been sexually abused by men early in life, this could result in a deeply impaired ability to trust or feel free to be close to men later. For instance, the combination of a domineering mother and a father who is detached or hostile can contribute to this condition. But we must note that some homosexuals do not have this background and there are persons with such background that do not have homosexual tendencies.

It is learned behavior brought about by seduction or initiation. This is found to be the experience of many.

Concluding on what causes homosexual tendencies, Hooker states it is multi-factorial. The variables include biological, cultural, psychodynamic, structural and situational factors.[12] If this is correct, we can draw inference from Biblical perspective that the genesis of homosexuality is not a matter of nature to the exclusion of nurture or vice versa. It is rather a combination of both. Man in his falling nature interacting with a social environment which itself bears the marks of sin, and homosexuality is one of the distortion that can result from that interaction.[13] The Bible, though acknowledging these imperfections do hold man responsible for the way he interacts with his world.
ARGUMENTS ON HOMOSEXUALITY

The following is representative of arguments on homosexual acts:

There should be no sexual constraint for consenting adults. What they do is their own moral business. A person has right to do with his body whatever he chooses. If mutual adults consent is equal to a right, what if the adults consent to Rob, kill or kidnap will it earn a right? An individual is not the ultimate standard of what is right or wrong.
The right of privacy protects homosexuality. Privacy is a constitutional right and as such the heterosexual majority has no right to impose their morality on the homosexual minority. Is right of privacy right of immorality? There is for instance no right to private rape.

Homosexuals have civil rights too like other minority groups. Denial is discrimination and discrimination is morally and socially wrong. There are no homosexual rights, homosexuals have rights as citizens but not as homosexuals for there is no right to do wrong. There is no civil right to do a moral wrong. There may then be advocacy for Murderers’ right, rapists’ right etc.

Morals have changed since ancient times. E.g. Pre-marital sex is viewed differently now. Morality does not change. Basic moral principles don’t change, what changes is our understanding and performances of them. Geisler states “Unchanging moral values with changing moral practice confuses morals and mores”[14]

THE SOCIAL VICES AND DAMAGES OF HOMOSEXUALITY

A look of the contribution of homosexuality to the society can become a way to assess the worth for its quest for civil rights. Its contribution includes the following:

Male homosexuality tends to be strongly associated with promiscuity. The famous Bell Memberg study suggested that about one-third of gays have had over one thousand sexual partners in their life’s times. Very few gays are in committed long-term relationships. Less than 10 percent of gays are in such relationships. Those who are in stable relationship do not tend to be sexually monogamous. McWhirter and Mattison, a Gay Couple themselves found that zero percent of the one hundred stable couple they studied were sexually monogamous after being together for five years. They said, to be gay is to be non-monogamous and that monogamy is unnatural state that some gay men attempt because of their internalized homophobia, so when you finally grow to accept your own gayness they said, you shed your monogamy as butterfly shed a cocoon.[15]
It produces unstable relationships. Apart from having many partners, characteristic to homosexuals, those in “stable relationships” are really unstable. For instance in ‘homosexual-friendly’ Scandinavian countries, where same-sex ‘civil union’ type relationships have existed for 10 years, male-male union breakdown (‘divorce’) is 50% higher than heterosexual unions. For female-female coupling the breakdown figure is 170% higher.[16]

Spread of Diseases. Homosexuality is responsible for the majority of new cases of sexually transmitted diseases (STDS). 50 percent of new cases of Syphilis occur in the homosexual population. Homosexual is five times more likely to contact syphilis than his heterosexual peer. Rectal gonorrhea is associated with anal intercourse. Also Hepatitis B. virus and Recta Cancer[17]

Homosexual practices are threats to lives. Another social concern is AIDS. Homosexual is noted to spread it. It does to non-homosexuals: hemophiliacs, user of common needle, medical workers, wives of bisexuals and others. Predictions are that millions of people will die as a direct or indirect result of homosexual practices that pass on this fatal virus.[18]

These go on to show that homosexuality is a social and civil menace. Rational society would want to defend itself against activities that endanger the lives of its citizen.


THE CHRISTIAN STANCE ON HOMOSEXUALITY

Whereas there have been arguments based on the Biblical passages on homosexual activities, few years back it would be generally concluded that the Bible is clearly against homosexual acts. The traditional view on such scriptures such as Gen. 19, Lev. 18, Jdg. 7, Rom.1:26-27, 1 Cor.6:9, 1Tim.1:10, was unanimous. This however has changed. Some scholars opined that these Bible texts on which the past condemnation of homosexuality was based are more complicated than may appear to literal minded reader.[19] It is as though the Bible has no great relevance to our modern problems. This statement credited to Scroggs is apt on this: “Not only is the New Testament Church uninterested in the topic, it has nothing new to say about it… Biblical judgments against homosexuality are not relevant to today’s debate.”[20] Thus homosexual acts have reasons why it must be accepted.

It is however striking that every time homosexual practice is mentioned in the scriptures, it is condemned. Jones expressed that there are only two ways to neutralize the Biblical witness: by gross misinterpretation or by moving away from high view of scripture.[21] The passages mentioned above are certainly important, but they are not the core of Christian stance that homosexual action is immoral. What is central is the Biblical vision of sexuality which applies equally to homosexual and heterosexual persons, men and women, adults and children. The heart of Christian sexual morality is that God made sexual union for a purpose; it is for the unity of husband and wife into one flesh in marriage. God uses sexual intercourse, full sexual intimacy to weld two different people together (1 Cor.6:11). God’s purpose for sex and marriage is bigger than simply a means to get our sexual needs met, have fun, have children and not have to be lonely. These are included benefits though, but God has a bigger purpose.[22]

This bigger purpose is revealed in Ephesians 5. Marriage is to illustrate what God wants in the relationship between Christ and His bride, the church. We are different from God but He wants to unite with us (1Cor.6:17). This reality can be uniquely modeled on earth through the union of two different human beings, male and female. Marriage is a living parable, a concrete symbol that models for the world the mystical union between Christ and His people.[23]
CONCLUSION

In the light of all stated above, it becomes very clear that homosexuality is not a question of human right but a moral question, indeed it is a moral wrong. The existence of inclinations, orientations or preferences has little to do with God’s moral call upon our lives. The goals that God ordained are legitimate and binding. However, this should not banish homosexuals from Christian touch of love especially as the luring into it is continuous. Indeed it should endear Christians to homosexuals. They should be seen as persons in captivity of their passion and hence objects of mercy. They are people for whom the sacrifice of Christ can atone. They need to know that there is hope of freedom. Awareness on homosexuality should be made first to denominational and congregational leaders. This is to serve not only to have them informed in balanced and enlightened form but to cause them to stand firmly, intelligently and vocally against homosexuality crusade as its creeping in for debate even with our national law makers. Christians should aim to reach homosexuals for the Lord and also have them rehabilitated. Jones speaks of ideal, chaste singleness as open and accessible to any homosexual. He states further that this holds out the possibility for true integrity and beauty as the models of Jesus Himself, Paul and many other saints show.[24] This is crucial because a moral wrong can never become the basis for human right.

http://umcachapeltanke.org/homosexuality-a-moral-wrong-or-human-right/

Cc: Hopefullandlord. All your questions are answered here. So here you go.

Eniolajay1519:
You have used an instrument of faith (the Bible) to justify your religious stance and to vehemently condemn homosexuality. Can you pls be more civil by keeping your faith to yourself and let us be! You are not gay so you DON'T understand what it means to be one. Pls desist from using a holy book to cast aspersions on other people's beliefs and sexual orientations. #istandbygay, #letmebeme

http://umcachapeltanke.org/homosexuality-a-moral-wrong-or-human-right/
Try and read it. It's not Christian.

[/quote]Compassion in our hearts yes. That's why we do not water down their immorality. That's why we point them to salvation. That's why we warn them of the dangers of their life style incase they don't know. But they do and attack us instead. They don't only atyack us, they wants the Christian laws be dropped and theirs upheld.

They want to be allowed in church as though it's right to be gay.

Biko what is God's stance on Homosexuality?

For God to GIVE THEM UP AS REPROBATES, do you think this is child's play to God?

If you are a Christian as you claim, you'd take the stance God takes on this not attacking other Christians.

And, remember Jesus died for sins, but we all are still expected to call sin evil and walk over to him for cleansing, and anyone who refuses to.walk over remains in sin and dies, not stand and justify sin and say Christ died for it anyway.

Aragon:
First thing to recognize as a Christian, know that you are a Sinner and you are not better than another Sinner.

Sir, no Christian is a sinner. Check again. You can't be reborn and have life the new life of Christ in you and remain a sinner.
Pls check what the Word redemption means.
Sin is a spirit when is done away with, its gone. Just like being healed of an ailment, the root is cured, the symptoms may persist for awhile, but the root is dead.

Aragon:
What we pray for Daily is the Grace of God cos we all sin Daily.

We don't all sin daily. Speak for yourself.

newsynews:
I'm glad you came out to confess that you are gay. Unlike @npcomplete and his Ilk who keep denying but making strong cases for go homosexuals.

It is clear that 80% of gays are atheists. They hate religion cos it judges their abomination. Be honest with yourself, is your love for gay sex not the reason you hate God?

No, the sex demon possessing him/her is responsible for his hate for God.

shaybebaby:
You need to ask our good friend Google. Don't just believe, the facts are there.

Try a quick search on ladyboys(I'm giving somewhere to start as it is obvious you know little about those countries)

Also check out technological advances that came out of China centuries ago and how advanced they were. No mention of Christianity there. In warfare, they would have most likely kcked the asses of the Romans.

And we know that in the west, before biblical times, Rome was the largest empire in the west. They were successful, had large armies and built monuments. They invented the toilet we use today and whilst they were doing all those things in such primitive times, they were also a sexually liberated society, homosexuality was the norm, so were orgies.

It didn't destroy their society. Neither did it contribute to the fall of the roman empire.

Wow, you shd be glad fore standing up for perversion. Lawwd

Humanistme:
don't waste your time. take it from me. she is going to comeback with a stupid argument which you are not going to know how to reply without sounding as stupid as her.

You know, she is even trying to make a point, but since you joined this forum you have never engaged anyone in a discussion. Am observing you.

Shey you have been following this thread? What have you said so far? Nothing. The next thing will be to start cussing. So far no personal insults here o, but now that you'd opened your mouth, what you are made up of, will begin to spill out.

I will demand that Seun awards you with a certificate of cussing. You are doing well.

Humanistme:
some people when they lose arguments or don't have anything to say they scream lesbian or homosexual. it's funny

Everyone knows you are homosexual hence the pain when we talk against it.

Get well soon from your HIV

701ecilana:
No, the sex demon possessing him/her is responsible for his hate for God.

You this babe u no wan leave me abi?

Intellad:
gays contributed 45% of world development.... in fashion they contributed 90% and in so many things.. they are highly intelligent, and friendly... also harmless.... so who is taking about already destroyed God forsaken Africa, being destroy by gays? primitive Nigerians...

You mean the kind of perverse fashion we have today? Everyone has become an animal going naked on the streets. Clap for yourself for calling this trend good.

And which areas of this world development that gays have contributed 45%? Pls name them.

So being homosexual makes you civilized? Hahahahahahahahahaha, mogbe. No kill me abeg.

LightandDarkness:
You intention when you used it was to provoke a heated reaction, your use of the word "gay" here and later says as much-please do try to be more mature in your discussions. I am not gay but I don't find being called gay an insult.


How? "Family" is a social construct, there is no fixed composition of a family.

Again how?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals#Some_selected_species_and_groups

There are numerous examples in this article, this speaks to the naturalness of homosexuality.

The study of human sexuality and sexual orientation is not recent and is neither restricted to homosexual scientists and homosexuality, it is focused on understanding the basis of human sexuality generally, you would be interested to know that there is no conclusive understanding on the basis for human sexuality including heterosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation#Causes

What specific disease did homosexuals "bring into humanity"-Notice you said "bring into humanity" here. Furthermore, why does it seem like you have an issue accepting the fact that I am not gay.
Non-existent demons?.
Okay so I still don't see exactly what your point is here?
I think you need to re-read this sentence, you did not make sense. Relatively developed as in, for the time period they existed in?, as in relative to other societies at the time?...

At this time I am convinced you are trying to use insults to distract me. Anyway before Christianity-In Europe-we had the Roman Empire-Largely pagans whose culture today still influences law, philosophy, and art., the minoans, the mycenaeans and the greek cities and states that followed whose culture also still influences modern day society, the ancient kingdom of Macedonia and more. All of which had established political, legal, and social structures. So your association of Christianity with development or civilization is false. On america, the native americans had their own cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Culture and I think you are unaware of the actual effect of European colonization on the indigenous americans http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-3 http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/native-americans/. If you think believed cultural superiority is sufficient to justify military conquest then there are a lot of African countries-maybe even Nigeria-that should be colonized all over again.

Here take time and go through it.

http://umcachapeltanke.org/homosexuality-a-moral-wrong-or-human-right/

And, stop denying that you are gay. You are vigorously defending them with links everywhere, yet you are not gay. Very soon you'd deny you are light&darkness.
Be brave most of you here are brave enough to embrace who they are.

NPComplete:
You this babe u no wan leave me abi?

I can't remember saying this to you o.

Wait, are you gay for real, ewwww.

701ecilana:
Here take time and go through it.

http://umcachapeltanke.org/homosexuality-a-moral-wrong-or-human-right/

And, stop denying that you are gay. You are vigorously defending them with links everywhere, yet you are not gay. Very soon you'd deny you are light&darkness.
Be brave most of you here are brave enough to embrace who they are.

So this is your best response?. Very informed of you. Why are you trying to insist everyone who is pro-LGBT must be gay, are you projecting and are gay yourself?.

701ecilana:
Everyone knows you are homosexual hence the pain when we talk against it.

Get well soon from your HIV

Christian liar. beg Yahweh to restore your deformity and your gonorrhea invested cunt.

701ecilana:
Everyone knows you are homosexual hence the pain when we talk against it.

Get well soon from your HIV

Christian liar. beg Yahweh to restore your deformity and your gonorrhea infested cunt.

701ecilana:
I can't remember saying this to you o.

Wait, are you gay for real, ewwww.

I will let this go. Because if I decide to reply u, u will consider it an overreaction and start crying about how unfair I am. Anyway, in case u don't know, whenever u quote some post that has someone's monicker in it, Nairaland informs the person who owns the monicker.

newsynews:
Who told you we are condemning homosexuals? We are simply condemning the act of homosexuality and telling them that it is a sin as most of them love to deceive themselves claiming they were born that way.

You are probably an homosexual who is just claiming Christianity. Cos if you are truly a Christian, you would have preached to them and pint out the wrong in their actions, instead of making them comfortable in their sins.

Who made you a Judge? See your Mouth like "We are Trying to Preach to Them" Have you finished Preaching to your Politicians causing Havocks and Deaths by their Evils? Have you finished Preaching to your Pastors Looting and Robbing the Common man including poor suffering Widows? I guess you actually believe everyone you meet here on Nairaland is your average Nigerian Improvished Youths that doesnt read or know left from right... That your you are "Probably a homosexual who is just claiming Chrsitianity" is so weak and lame that it's childish to even respond to it cos its what Kids use to Silence people! Lemme help you a Bit, not here on Nairaland where Kids hide behind computers running their mouths... If we meet in Real life, if you can actually Look me in the eyes or Hold a Sound Debate, I will give you 100euros no Question asked! Are you game or what? Experts across the world, Theologians, Scientists, Professors, Scolars are still Researching and Debating this Issue and you with your acclamined Fame on NL is making a FINAL claim about something that you have so single Idea about.. Maybe when you are exposed and interact with more people, you wont be quick to condenm and pass Judgement on anyone... As a Nigerian, I was once like that Untill I actually spoke with these people! Some of who will not Accept that they are Gay and after fighting it and cant win, they Comite Suicide! SUICIDE!!!! did you hear that? Would you Kill yourself over something you have Control over? Have you asked yourself why some people are Born left handed? Born Blind? Born with Weak Heart and Die? As long as we are alive, we can never Answer all the Mysteries of Life... That is why a smart person will say Äll Have Sinned and we Live Judgement too GOD even as we continue prayyiing for Mercy" But a lot of you Choose which SIN to condemn and which to let go! Between Gay people and Pastors who are causing more harm in Nigeria today?

NPComplete:
I will let this go. Because if I decide to reply u, u will consider it an overreaction and start crying about how unfair I am. Anyway, in case u don't know, whenever u quote some post that has someone's monicker in it, Nairaland informs the person who owns the monicker.

Oh, we are talking generally.

701ecilana:
I will demand that Seun awards you with a certificate of cussing. You are doing well.

I learnt from you typical Christian hypocrites. you have been jumping up and down calling anybody who disagrees with you guy. yet you are the innocent holy one. stupid fanatic.

701ecilana:
Ask yourself this, why are these countries running to school overseas, learn their principles take them home and apply?
When did Cuba become Communist? Wasn't it Catholic for Centuries?


Are we still talking about the Principles which built the West? Aren't those Principle responsible for the West being what they are hence; attract other countries to go over there, learn, go back home and apply them?

The West is built on the back of slavery, separation of church and state, technological advancement especially in terms of warfare and scientific discovery.

Other countries come here because the west is constantly innovating. Were they to adhere to biblical principles, we'd still riding donkeys.

701ecilana:
I will demand that Seun awards you with a certificate of cussing. You are doing well.

I learnt from you typical Christian hypocrites. you have been jumping up and down calling anybody who disagrees with you gay. yet you are the innocent holy one. stupid fanatic.

Humanistme:
Christian liar. beg Yahweh to restore your deformity and your gonorrhea infested cunt.

This the real you. Am glad your mother has a cunt.

See how kids younger than you are contributing to this thread? You are empty upstairs and have nothing to contribute to humanity but foul mouth. The unfortunate man you grew up knowing as your dad just wasted his money paying your schools fees. I hope you kill yourself soon.

All you talk about is cunt. You like cunts but you are gay. Am not responsible for your misfortune.

*Ignoremood activated* You are too debased for me to talk to.

701ecilana:
Wow, you shd be glad fore standing up for perversion. Lawwd

I am proud that I stand up for injustice. However much I may dislike the ideology you stand for, I will stand up for you too if you were being treated unjustly.

LightandDarkness:
So this is your best response?. Very informed of you. Why are you trying to insist everyone who is pro-LGBT must be gay, are you projecting and are gay yourself?.

Are you sure you read through? All the questions you asked are there.

Why will anyone be pro LGBT if he/she is not gay or demon possessed?

701ecilana:
Are you sure you read through? All the questions you asked are there.

Why will anyone be pro LGBT if he/she is not gay or demon possessed?

Sigh. Not everyone is capable of a logical debate.

shaybebaby:
I am proud that I stand up for injustice. However much I may dislike the ideology you stand for, I will stand up for you too if you were being treated unjustly.