₦airaland Forum

TonyeBarcanista:
Thumbs up

ificatchmodeh:
Nice one..

Thanks

Mynd44:
I will rather vote/be in a part with Nnamdi Kanu or Adeyinka Grandson; they wear theirs as a badge for all to see

BUT WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS


IF YOU BAN ME I GO SEND ORUNMILA AND SANGO TO YOU TONIGHT

RELEASE nwaAmaikpe now

ZombieTERROR:
or with you and sarrki
Dead on arrival

So far its not PDP or New PDP agree

BAILMONEY:
BUT WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS


IF YOU BAN ME I GO SEND ORUNMILA AND SANGO TO YOU TONIGHT

RELEASE nwaAmaikpe now

Nairaland constitution should be adhered to

Same way we patriots will not condone any criminal gang like ipobs miscreants to go against our constitution

Afam4eva:
Sometimes, we actually don't know the power that we wield. Nairaland is the largest Nigerian forum and we have close to or a bt over a million users and even more visitors. Every four in five Nigerian knows someone that knows Nairaland.

I'm tired of hearing people talk about how bad things are in Nigeria and how Nnamdi kanu and the Biafran agitations are not the way to go without actually proffering any solutions. How about we use Nairaland as a platform to start a huge political movement that may metamorphose into a political party or not.

Let's just start something, anything.

A very good idea if you ask me. But then you want them to clamp their fingers on nairaland. Not good for oga Seun

sarrki:
My Good lord will forgive you for the bolded

I love pmb , that's all I don't care about party.
The truth is I love pmb

ok, me I love Nigeria more than any politician or human being

sarrki:
Nairaland constitution should be adhered to

Same way we patriots will not condone any criminal gang like ipobs miscreants to go against our constitution

COME WETIN CONCERN ME AND YOU NOW DONT EVER QUOTE ME AGAIN IN YOUR MISERABLE LIFE

The number one problem of this country is disunity.. If the youths of this nation should unit, there is nothing we can't achieve..
The masses have been exploited long enough by the crop of greedy incompetent politicians
If Nigerian youths, irrespective of our individual differences should come together to form a common allegiance above political and ethnic divide.. Its possible

Afam4eva:
Sometimes, we actually don't know the power that we wield. Nairaland is the largest Nigerian forum and we have close to or a bt over a million users and even more visitors. Every four in five Nigerian knows someone that knows Nairaland.

I'm tired of hearing people talk about how bad things are in Nigeria and how Nnamdi kanu and the Biafran agitations are not the way to go without actually proffering any solutions. How about we use Nairaland as a platform to start a huge political movement that may metamorphose into a political party or not.

Let's just start something, anything.

How on earth will such a thing be possible, given how every political discussion in Nigeria quickly degenerates into tribal and religious jockeying? On what basis will such a party operate, in light of the indifference of most Nigerians to matters of policy and ideology? When was the last time any politician's ideas actually made a damn in an election? How many times have such things mattered much even in discussions on this very forum, where trolls and id.iots manage to derail everything with gratuitous name-calling and insulting pictures?

Let's face reality: the vast majority of Nigerians of all ages and backgrounds are not just utterly ignorant of economics and political philosophy, but are also diehard tribalists who find it extremely difficult to really see people from other regions as fellow countrymen, unless they are forced into a temporary defensive solidarity by external circumstances: just look at the many heartless and selfish responses following every post on Boko Haram in the northeast. Under such circumstances, the only parties that can emerge and make a difference will be those consisting of tribal coalitions working together to monopolize the rents accruing to the center (which for the last 47 years has meant Niger Delta oil revenues). Not a single successful political party has ever defied this template, and I'm doubtful any ever will as long as Nigeria exists as a "nation".

omohayek:
How on earth will such a thing be possible, given how every political discussion in Nigeria quickly degenerates into tribal and religious jockeying? On what basis will such a party operate, in light of the indifference of most Nigerians to matters of policy and ideology? When was the last time any politician's ideas actually made a damn in an election? How many times have such things mattered much even in discussions on this very forum, where trolls and id.iots manage to derail everything with gratuitous name-calling and insulting pictures?

Let's face reality: the vast majority of Nigerians of all ages and backgrounds are not just utterly ignorant of economics and political philosophy, but are also diehard tribalists who find it extremely difficult to really see people from other regions as fellow countrymen, unless they are forced into a temporary defensive solidarity by external circumstances: just look at the many heartless and selfish responses following every post on Boko Haram in the northeast. Under such circumstances, the only parties that can emerge and make a difference will be those consisting of tribal coalitions working together to monopolize the rents accruing to the center (which for the last 47 years has meant Niger Delta oil revenues). Not a single successful political party has ever defied this template, and I'm doubtful any ever will as long as Nigeria exists as a "nation".

You're very much on point and i'm really ashamed to say that i agree with you. However, i'm tired of these excuses about how Nigerians are inherently tribalistic and devoid of the knowledge of the workings of political economics. As true as that is, i think the average Nigerian just wants a better life and want the country to develop but not everybody understand how to get there. That's why they entrust that part to those who have the knowhow to make change occur. That's why we need to mobilize ourselves to be able to have a default idealogy devoid of our tribal, religious and partisan affiliations. That way we can put up young people of reasonable character to take up the mantle of leadership. I continue to maintain that the reason why Nigeria is the way it is, is because the same people that messed up the country are still in charge. Imagine a country where all these people are somehow miraculous pushed out for people below the age of 45. This is considering the fact that the only sector in the country that seems to be working (Entertainment) is controlled by this young demographic. I think that time has come for us as a people to begin making that very needed change.

[s]

Afam4eva:
Sometimes, we actually don't know the power that we wield. Nairaland is the largest Nigerian forum and we have close to or a bt over a million users and even more visitors. Every four in five Nigerian knows someone that knows Nairaland.

I'm tired of hearing people talk about how bad things are in Nigeria and how Nnamdi kanu and the Biafran agitations are not the way to go without actually proffering any solutions. How about we use Nairaland as a platform to start a huge political movement that may metamorphose into a political party or not.

Let's just start something, anything.

[/s]

Political movement with Afam, a well-known Jonah-daftt cocck-sucker sucker. Yam eater. Ibo warlord.
Never, it will never work.

Afam4eva:
You're very much on point and i'm really ashamed to say that i agree with you. However, i'm tired of these excuses about how Nigerians are inherently tribalistic and devoid of the knowledge of the workings of political economics. As true as that is, i think the average Nigerian just wants a better life and want the country to develop but not everybody understand how to get there. That's why they entrust that part to those who have the knowhow to make change occur. That's why we need to mobilize ourselves to be able to have a default idealogy devoid of our tribal, religious and partisan affiliations. That way we can put up young people of reasonable character to take up the mantle of leadership. I continue to maintain that the reason why Nigeria is the way it is, is because the same people that messed up the country are still in charge. Imagine a country where all these people are somehow miraculous pushed out for people below the age of 45. This is considering the fact that the only sector in the country that seems to be working (Entertainment) is controlled by this young demographic. I think that time has come for us as a people to begin making that very needed change.

The problem I see here is that there can be no hope of meaningful progress without bringing the "policy" into Nigerian politics, and that means being willing to grapple with ideas, not just hoping that somehow pushing out the older generations (which is in any case impossible) will make any difference for the better (and from everything I've seen of how "yahoo yahoo" boys, Dino Melaye and other such criminals are openly celebrated by said "youth", I don't see any reason for believing they will be any less crooked than the old people they'd be replacing).

Any worthwhile political party will have to possess a clear set of principles by which it seeks to govern, and whatever such principles may be, their practical effects are likely to affect some groups more than others, which will no doubt play upon the already pre-existing tribal prejudices most Nigerians hold. Consider, for example, the abolition of the Land Use Act and the enshrinement of absolute property rights to land: while this policy is essential if Nigeria's mass of peasant farmers are ever to gain access to the formal credit sector, it will also mean that those who own a piece of land will also own whatever is found on or under it, which threatens to cut off the flow of oil rents which the FG redistributes as "federal allocations"; the northern legislators in the NASS recognized as much, which is why they torpedoed any attempt to remove the Land Use Act from the constitution, even though it is a tremendous drag on economic progress which disproportionately affects the more agriculture-dependent northern states. Similar reasoning explains why no northern-led government (e.g. the present one) will ever lift a finger to privatize and deregulate any part of the economy: northern elites understand all too well that they will fare relatively poorly in a more market-driven environment without the numerous parastatals and bloated public sector to use as patronage networks, so they are naturally disposed to prefer more state control in spite of how crippling it is to economic growth.

I've written all of the above not so much to criticize northerners per se, as to make clear that even purely economic principles will have varying practical implications for different ethnic groups, which in turn means that the necessity of formulating clear ideas on what a political party stands for will inevitably drive away support from certain groups while attracting it from others: in short, there is simply no escaping the ethnic factor. We can see this at work even in nations like the UK (where the overwhelmingly English north was pro-Brexit, and Scotland, Northern Ireland and the cosmopolitan south-east around London were all pro-Remain) or the USA (where the south is anti-welfare state and anti-union, but the northeast and the coastal states are for both), so imagining it can be avoided in Nigeria is a pipe dream no matter how idealistic a party's founders might be. The trouble with Nigeria is that by the time that political message filters down to the masses, the ethnic overtones will have become so great that we're back to where we started; again, this is not unique to Nigeria - look at how the GOP elite's small-government philosophy is read by the average party member as "keep the minorities in their place" - but Nigeria's low level of average educational attainment and intense tribal identification make the problem almost impossible to manage.

In short, I don't really see any hope for what you're trying to achieve without a radical reduction in tribal identification and a major upwards shift in the average Nigerian's educational level, neither of which is likely to happen in the near future.

omohayek:
The problem I see here is that there can be no hope of meaningful progress without bringing the "policy" into Nigerian politics, and that means being willing to grapple with ideas, not just hoping that somehow pushing out the older generations (which is in any case impossible) will make any difference for the better (and from everything I've seen of how "yahoo yahoo" boys, Dino Melaye and other such criminals are openly celebrated by said "youth", I don't see any reason for believing they will be any less crooked than the old people they'd be replacing).

Any worthwhile political party will have to possess a clear set of principles by which it seeks to govern, and whatever such principles may be, their practical effects are likely to affect some groups more than others, which will no doubt play upon the already pre-existing tribal prejudices most Nigerians hold. Consider, for example, the abolition of the Land Use Act and the enshrinement of absolute property rights to land: while this policy is essential if Nigeria's mass of peasant farmers are ever to gain access to the formal credit sector, it will also mean that those who own a piece of land will also own whatever is found on or under it, which threatens to cut off the flow of oil rents which the FG redistributes as "federal allocations"; the northern legislators in the NASS recognized as much, which is why they torpedoed any attempt to remove the Land Use Act from the constitution, even though it is a tremendous drag on economic progress which disproportionately affects the more agriculture-dependent northern states. Similar reasoning explains why no northern-led government (e.g. the present one) will ever lift a finger to privatize and deregulate any part of the economy: northern elites understand all too well that they will fare relatively poorly in a more market-driven environment without the numerous parastatals and bloated public sector to use as patronage networks, so they are naturally disposed to prefer more state control in spite of how crippling it is to economic growth.

I've written all of the above not so much to criticize northerners per se, as to make clear that even purely economic principles will have varying practical implications for different ethnic groups, which in turn means that the necessity of formulating clear ideas on what a political party stands for will inevitably drive away support from certain groups while attracting it from others: in short, there is simply no escaping the ethnic factor. We can see this at work even in nations like the UK (where the overwhelmingly English north was pro-Brexit, and Scotland, Northern Ireland and the cosmopolitan south-east around London were all pro-Remain) or the USA (where the south is anti-welfare state and anti-union, but the northeast and the coastal states are for both), so imagining it can be avoided in Nigeria is a pipe dream no matter how idealistic a party's founders might be. The trouble with Nigeria is that by the time that political message filters down to the masses, the ethnic overtones will have become so great that we're back to where we started; again, this is not unique to Nigeria - look at how the GOP elite's small-government philosophy is read by the average party member as "keep the minorities in their place" - but Nigeria's low level of average educational attainment and intense tribal identification make the problem almost impossible to manage.

In short, I don't really see any hope for what you're trying to achieve without a radical reduction in tribal identification and a major upwards shift in the average Nigerian's educational level, neither of which is likely to happen in the near future.

Based on your last paragraph, we might as well just call it a day and go our separate if we agree that nothing is really possible or it's so difficult to achieve.

The reason why our political education is at it's lowest ebb is a doing of the political class who have dis-educated the masses for their own benefit. Now people have become zombies who follow politicians all around without asking pertinent questions. Even the so called educated folks are not left out in this zombism, so it's not a factor of formal education. There are some of us that understand what is truly going on and only us can use the same tool that our granny politicians used to mis-educate the electorate. Take a look at Lagos for example. During Bola Tinubu's era and prior to it, building a make shift market was seen as an achievement or carrying out an eye test clinic for a few lagosians by the government was seen as noble in a mega city such as Lagos. That's because people didn't know better. it was not until Fashola came that he set a new precedence of prosperity and now Ambody is even beginning to topple his achievement. Do you think lagos can ever have a mediocre governor without the residents rising up? It is no more business as usual for governors in Lagos. It's work or get out. That's the same thing we're suggesting at the federal and other levels of government. Change the status quo and people's eyes will open to new and real possibilities. It will not longer be about politicians saying that they will provide water, light, hospitals but about how they intend to go about doing it.

All these things cannot be possible with the present crop pf leaders we have. Until be boot them out, we shuold not even dream of any change. Only the youths of this country can make the much needed change and the time to act is now.

With people having their heads far gone into buhari's arse, you want to form movement. Ask chally boy. He'll tell you the truth.

Was it not just resume or resign?

Besides, like I said in this forum earlier 2015, when I was attacked on this forum, Nnamdi Kanu actually has what it takes for Nigeria youths to be liberated.

I'm not from that part of the country, but I know the truth. Besides, I don't have any problems with his method because, like I've said, our people from the Niger delta, as we are called, seem to be the most un serious people in Nigeria..

Afam4eva:
Based on your last paragraph, we might as well just call it a day and go our separate if we agree that nothing is really possible or it's so difficult to achieve.

Personally, given 57 post-independence years with so little to show for it, and tribal antagonism more intense than ever, I'm not sure that it a bad idea. If Nigeria is to survive in the long-run, it will have to be as a much looser confederation in the Swiss-style, as it's clear that without the attraction of the oil-money doled out as "federal allocations", there is little real popular support for a shared nationhood.

The reason why our political education is at it's lowest ebb is a doing of the political class who have dis-educated the masses for their own benefit. Now people have become zombies who follow politicians all around without asking pertinent questions. Even the so called educated folks are not left out in this zombism, so it's not a factor of formal education.

As tempting as it may be to absolve the masses of blame, the facts simply don't justify such a stance. Who chose these terrible leaders in the first place? It's true nobody chose the generals who came to power by coup-plotting, but the first, second and third republic have all been disasters of looting and poor policy-making, made possible by poorly-educated masses voting mostly along tribal and religious lines. Nigerians have exactly the quality of leadership they deserve: otherwise every thief wouldn't be able to draw masses of diehard apologists, no matter how blaring his or her guilt.

With regards to "education", I'm not talking about the formal accumulation of credentials that most Nigerians mistake for the real thing, but about learning how to reason critically and weigh evidence, about learning the importance of checking one's beliefs against empirical evidence, about learning to ground one's notions in established facts instead of indulging in myth-peddling and uncritically swallowing urban legends, about seeing the world as a rule-bound place which can be grasped through scientific principles rather than folding one's hands and resorting to prayer whenever one faces a difficult challenge. I'm talking about the acquisition of an entire worldview, the rationalist, enlightenment worldview that has enabled westerners to send probes to Jupiter, Saturn and beyond, even as we Africans still believe in "rituals" and frequent charismatic charlatans preaching the "prosperity gospel" in our desire for miraculous interventions. By the standards of which I speak, even the vast majority of "educated" Nigerians are uneducated in the truest sense.

There are some of us that understand what is truly going on and only us can use the same tool that our granny politicians used to mis-educate the electorate. Take a look at Lagos for example. During Bola Tinubu's era and prior to it, building a make shift market was seen as an achievement or carrying out an eye test clinic for a few lagosians by the government was seen as noble in a mega city such as Lagos. That's because people didn't know better. it was not until Fashola came that he set a new precedence of prosperity and now Ambody is even beginning to topple his achievement. Do you think lagos can ever have a mediocre governor without the residents rising up? It is no more business as usual for governors in Lagos. It's work or get out. That's the same thing we're suggesting at the federal and other levels of government. Change the status quo and people's eyes will open to new and real possibilities. It will not longer be about politicians saying that they will provide water, light, hospitals but about how they intend to go about doing it.

All well and good, but how do you get that change agent into power in the first place? In a sane political environment, where tribe didn't count for everything, Fashola's track record in Lagos would have been the ideal spring point for his getting to the Presidency in 2015 (or at least 2019), yet the northern masses cared more about putting one of "their own" in office despite his lackluster track record, and they're still jubilating Buhari's return from the UK after 3 years of his mostly doing nothing but traveling abroad for one reason or another. What are the odds of such people suddenly opting for someone of Fashola's stamp when they care more about it being "their turn" than whether the candidate they pick delivers any concrete benefits for them?

All these things cannot be possible with the present crop pf leaders we have. Until be boot them out, we shuold not even dream of any change. Only the youths of this country can make the much needed change and the time to act is now.

To begin with, as cynical as I am about Nigerian politics in general, I don't agree with your blanket condemnation of all of Nigeria's current politicians. As you yourself have mentioned, Fashola is one counter-example to the typical "come and chop" id.iot, and there are a few others besides him who come to mind (e.g. Soludo, or the current Emir of Kano). It's too simple to just say "throw them all out", without doing the hard work of separating the wheat from the chaff.

The second point I'll make - and which I've made once before - is that I see absolutely no evidence that the "youth" you put so much faith in are in general any better than they elders you want them to replace. Who celebrates yahoo boys? Who champions and defends Dino Melaye, Bukola Saraki, Diezani, etc. on this very forum, even without anybody paying them for it? Who foolishly rushed headlong into MMM even when everyone was pointing out it was a pyramid scheme? Didn't you see the front page post in which most of said "youth" openly admitted that they too would steal as much as possible if they were ever made Minister of Petroleum? Your insistence that the "youth" will be magically better is an example of what I'm talking about, mere wishful thinking without any empirical grounding whatsoever: what I see with my own eyes are generations of "youth" which are even more mired in greed and blind worship of wealth than the generation that gave us Abacha and company.

omohayek:
To begin with, as cynical as I am about Nigerian politics in general, I don't agree with your blanket condemnation of all of Nigeria's current politicians. As you yourself have mentioned, Fashola is one counter-example to the typical "come and chop" id.iot, and there are a few others besides him who come to mind (e.g. Soludo, or the current Emir of Kano). It's too simple to just say "throw them all out", without doing the hard work of separating the wheat from the chaff.

By all politicians, i'm talking of the career politicians and not people like Fashola. There are people that have been tested and trusted and that we know that take this country to the promise land. You've already named them. The likes of Fashola, Soludo, Sanusi, Ribady, Ezekwesili and co. But even this people can't function under this system that has been programmed not to work. Take a look at fashola for example. He has become a shadow of himself because he's now under a system that stiffles one's ability to function. Unlike when he was almost the lord and omega n lagos where he determined almost everything that happened. The likes of Buhari, Atuki, OBJ, IBB and those past military leaders need to be booted out. Most of them are illiterate who have nothing to offer and only care about holding the nation to ramsome for their personal aggrandizement.

omohayek:
The second point I'll make - and which I've made once before - is that I see absolutely no evidence that the "youth" you put so much faith in are in general any better than they elders you want them to replace. Who celebrates yahoo boys? Who champions and defends Dino Melaye, Bukola Saraki, Diezani, etc. on this very forum, even without anybody paying them for it? Who foolishly rushed headlong into MMM even when everyone was pointing out it was a pyramid scheme? Didn't you see the front page post in which most of said "youth" openly admitted that they too would steal as much as possible if they were ever made Minister of Petroleum? Your insistence that the "youth" will be magically better is an example of what I'm talking about, mere wishful thinking without any empirical grounding whatsoever: what I see with my own eyes are generations of "youth" which are even more mired in greed and blind worship of wealth than the generation that gave us Abacha and company.

The likes of Saraki and Dino Melayi despite being relatively young have no precedence to be considered good leaders. It's not just about whipping out any young person that claims to be a leader. What is your educational background? what are your professional achievements. In a perfect system people like Deziani and Okonji iweala would really do well. Deziani found herself in a corrupt system and she decided to enrish herself. That's what most so called good people do when they get into government. They join the bandwagon.

Mynd44:
With you?

Lmaoooooo

Afam, of all people!

Afam4eva:
By all politicians, i'm talking of the career politicians and not people like Fashola. There are people that have been tested and trusted and that we know that take this country to the promise land. You've already named them. The likes of Fashola, Soludo, Sanusi, Ribady, Ezekwesili and co. But even this people can't function under this system that has been programmed not to work. Take a look at fashola for example. He has become a shadow of himself because he's now under a system that stiffles one's ability to function. Unlike when he was almost the lord and omega n lagos where he determined almost everything that happened. The likes of Buhari, Atuki, OBJ, IBB and those past military leaders need to be booted out. Most of them are illiterate who have nothing to offer and only care about holding the nation to ramsome for their personal aggrandizement.


The likes of Saraki and Dino Melayi despite being relatively young have no precedence to be considered good leaders. It's not just about whipping out any young person that claims to be a leader. What is your educational background? what are your professional achievements. In a perfect system people like Deziani and Okonji iweala would really do well. Deziani found herself in a corrupt system and she decided to enrish herself. That's what most so called good people do when they get into government. They join the bandwagon.

Based on my direct relationship with some people that have been opportuned to be in power I can tell you that none planned to steal but they were all forced to by environment they found themselves. That's why restructuring is one of the best solution to our problem but most people don't understand the type of restructuring we need.

My own idea is devolution of power to the grassroots by making local councils powerful and almost independent of federal and States.

As in political movement started by one of Nairaland biggest bigot and corruption supporter? Afam4ever or a new one? Wonders shall never end.

madridguy:
Good suggestion but we must first flush out the pigs outta nairaland.

The so called pigs are still citizens of Nigeria and they too have a say. Nobody should be sidelined.