₦airaland Forum

No one is saying they should come up with schemes to raise money for the 'Government', what we are saying is come up with schemes to raise funds to take care of needs such as research work, training etc.

I've not read online (correct me if I'm wrong) where it is mentioned, US Government or UK Government funding research works in Harvard or Oxford, those professors go to the private sectors to source for funding. They don't go about asking government for those funds.

Government funding for research abroad accounts for less than 1% of total funds available to the various institutions for their training and research works.

We too like 'government idle type of jobs' in this country that's why most became lecturers to earn that free idle cash. Have you seen or heard of a lecturer in a law department or medical doctor in the department of medicine that has no private practice or working in a hospital? Once you're a professional or qualified in a profession, nothing stops you from practicing but not so with our lecturers....they must be pampered.

proffemi:
Jeez. Everybody wants ASUU to come up with schemes to raise money. Are you sure you want me devoting only 5% of my time to educate the future leaders in my field just so I can generate ideas to raise money to subsidize ...arrrggg.

Lets keep it simple. I was employed to teach and conduct research, not come up with business plans to make it cheaper for you to get a world class education. Why should that be my job

.

Iamzik:
Give us the breakdown of the supposed N2m per annum (10m per student for 5yr engineering). Even some private universities so not pay that much despite the fact that they do not receive government fund to run the school and pay salaries.

I don't need to do it for you. Go to any CSC, EEE, or MEE department in a federal university. Compute staff remuneration per year. Compute cost of equipment, facilities, energy. Compute how much it costs to manage hostels for students. Divide by the student population.

Are you denying wasteful spending, mismanagement and secrecy surrounding financial management of universities in Nigeria?

Wasteful spending, mismanagement: of course I'm not. Can you show me a SINGLE sector of Nigeria where the above don't apply?

As to the secrecy part, I have no idea what you're talking about. Isn't that part of the oversight functions of the NUC/Ministry to maintain accountability and probity?

All the grants that was relieved in the past where is the value.

I suppose this is a rhetorical question. Allowing for the usual issues of corruption (which bites EVERYWHERE in Nigeria, need I remind you?) if you open your eyes, you will see what previous government interventions were used for.

Government should find education adequately, YES but government and society must get accountability and value for money spent

Yes, government must get accountability. Who is arguing against that? Definitely not ASUU.


[Quote] BTW revenue generating agency remit to government coffers. Do universities remit any percentage of their IGR?[/quote]They do not. Should they? Please educate me on this.

Iamzik:
Give us the breakdown of the supposed N2m per annum (10m per student for 5yr engineering). Even some private universities so not pay that much despite the fact that they do not receive government fund to run the school and pay salaries.

Are you denying wasteful spending, mismanagement and secrecy surrounding financial management of universities in Nigeria?

All the grants that was relieved in the past where is the value. Government should find education adequately, YES but government and society must get accountability and value for money spent

BTW revenue generating agency remit to government coffers. Do universities remit any percentage of their IGR?

You really made a lot of sense.

bigtt76:
No one is saying they should come up with schemes to raise money for the 'Government', what we are saying is come up with schemes to raise funds to take care of needs such as research work, training etc.

The primary way researchers come up with funds globally is from research grants. You're not gonna get research grants for low-quality work. The current state of funding makes it basically impossible to do top-class work. Do you see where I'm going with this? Besides, you're leaving out the elephant in the room: why should I crack my head on extra ways of getting funding when the students are paying a fraction of what it costs to educate them?

They don't go about asking government for those funds

They don't because the ones you mentioned are not government institutions. Also, I recommend you go check how much their students pay. Perhaps, then you will know one way they generate funds: students who pay for the value they get.

Edit: BTW, I just noticed you were talking about *research* here. Yep, government absolutely funds their research.

We too like 'government idle type of jobs' in this country that's why most became lecturers to earn that free idle cash. Have you seen or heard of a lecturer in a law department or medical doctor in the department of medicine that has no private practice or working in a hospital? Once you're a professional or qualified in a profession, nothing stops you from practicing but not so with our lecturers....they must be pampered

I have no idea what you talking about there, but the "pampered" part has me amused and slightly offended, if I apply it to myself. Me? Pampered? My dear (sorry if that comes off wrong), this job is one of the lowest-paying jobs a man of my intellect could have gone for back then. I walked away from much better options and took this job for one reason: because I consider it a calling. To call me pampered because I demand for my rights, or for the improvement of the system is to display ignorance of the issues at stake*.

*Note on my usage of "I" up there: I'm only partially in support of the strike action, and technically, not even on strike right now.

proffemi:
I don't need to do it for you. Go to any CSC, EEE, or MEE department in a federal university. Compute staff remuneration per year. Compute cost of equipment, facilities, energy. Compute how much it costs to manage hostels for students. Divide by the student population.


Wasteful spending, mismanagement: of course I'm not. Can you show me a SINGLE sector of Nigeria where the above don't apply?

As to the secrecy part, I have no idea what you're talking about. Isn't that part of the oversight functions of the NUC/Ministry to maintain accountability and probity?


I suppose this is a rhetorical question. Allowing for the usual issues of corruption (which bites EVERYWHERE in Nigeria, need I remind you?) if you open your eyes, you will see what previous government interventions were used for.



Yes, government must get accountability. Who is arguing against that? Definitely not ASUU.


[Quote] BTW revenue generating agency remit to government coffers. Do universities remit any percentage of their IGR?
They do not. Should they? Please educate me on this.

Well done for putting up a good defense.

The fact remains that the country has not seen the value of past investment in university education in terms of standard and innovation.

Government does not have N825 billion to give at this time. If a whole generation of intellectuals cannot think outside the box but solely depend on being spoon fed by government then ASUU has two options : continue the strike or increase the school fees to N2m per annum like you suggested.

Iamzik:
Well done for putting up a good defense.

Thanks, I'm impressed by your ability to remain objective while passionately maintaining an opposing stance.

The fact remains that the country has not seen the value of past investment in university education in terms of standard and innovation.

Absolutely. This is a point I flog to death on an almost daily basis. The blame for our failing educational system must be borne by government, students, parents...and ASUU! I have said (even on this site) before that the academics of this country have failed her.

Having said that, this is the dilemma in which we find ourselves as a country: we need the universities to function well to have any hope of national development. If the nation's academics have so far not performed, do we stop funding the universities? Mind you, by "not performed", we're talking about a grade of 50C, rather than 30F IMO (also IMO, nothing stops us academics from achieving 80A).

The solution can NEVER be to deny funding to the universities. The solution is to ensure proper funding AND ensure the universities deliver. They are not mutually exclusive.

Government does not have N825 billion to give at this time.

The truth is: neither you nor I know that for a fact.

If a whole generation of intellectuals cannot think outside the box but solely depend on being spoon fed by government then ASUU has two options : continue the strike or increase the school fees to N2m per annum like you suggested.

ASUU won't, as a matter of principle, push for fee hikes. I'm not saying I agree (or not). So that leaves them with just the one option I guess.

proffemi:
Thanks, I'm impressed by your ability to remain objective while passionately maintaining an opposing stance.

Absolutely. This is a point I flog to death on an almost daily basis. The blame for our failing educational system must be borne by government, students, parents...and ASUU! I have said (even on this site) before that the academics of this country have failed her.

Having said that, this is the dilemma in which we find ourselves as a country: we need the universities to function well to have any hope of national development. If the nation's academics have so far not performed, do we stop funding the universities? Mind you, by "not performed", we're talking about a grade of 50C, rather than 30F IMO (also IMO, nothing stops us academics from achieving 80A).

The solution can NEVER be to deny funding to the universities. The solution is to ensure proper funding AND ensure the universities deliver. They are not mutually exclusive.


The truth is: neither you nor I know that for a fact.


ASUU won't, as a matter of principle, push for fee hikes. I'm not saying I agree (or not). So that leaves them with just the one option I guess.

Strike it is then.

Let it continue.

BTW you sound like a lecturer
And I have a feeling that I guessed right

@proffemi

I have been following this thread with keen interest. Please my own concern is there is a wide gap between the town and the gown. The town is not feeling the impact of our university. No research, no innovation. A sad reminder was during the Ebola outbreak - none of our professors could come up with a therapy (even if it will fail) to tackle the deadly outbreak. Its a sad story. What's the purpose of education without a concrete value being added to the society.

Then, why will they be asking the FG that the universities should be exempted from TSA. That demand to me is reckless. We are all aware of our the so called dons embezzle funds recklessly. I am sorry we are not ready to go to that regime again.

Iamzik:
Strike it is then.

Let it continue.

BTW you sound like a lecturer
And I have a feeling that I guessed right

Guess ke? I don't hide it o. I am a lecturer patapata But I'm a good-guy lecturer, not one of the (mythical, I hope) psycho types.

proffemi:
Guess ke? I don't hide it o. I am a lecturer patapata But I'm a good-guy lecturer, not one of the (mythical, I hope) psycho types.

Kudos!

I'm sure you are doing a great job.

We are counting on bright minds like you to effect positive change in the system.

Hope government resolve this with ASUU Asap.

Regards

MT:
@proffemi

I have been following this thread with keen interest. Please my own concern is there is a wide gap between the town and the gown. The town is not feeling the impact of our university. No research, no innovation. A sad reminder was during the Ebola outbreak - none of our professors could come up with a therapy (even if it will fail) to tackle the deadly outbreak. Its a sad story. What's the purpose of education without a concrete value being added to the society.

Valid points, those.

The question is: how do you go about improving a very expensive system that (a) is absolutely critical to national development (b) is not performing ? A good solution is to spend enough to ensure that the quality of the system rises, flush out non-performing individuals or entities, and put rigorous quality assurance checks in place.

Then, why will they be asking the FG that the universities should be exempted from TSA. That demand to me is reckless. We are all aware of our the so called dons embezzle funds recklessly. I am sorry we are not ready to go to that regime again.

Hmm, TSA. I feel you bro. Somewhere inside me, there is a nod of approval for the TSA idea. Definitely an effective way to reduce corruption, if properly implemented. Unfortunately, the current implementation is creating severe bottlenecks in some cases. IMO, the solution is not to jettison TSA, but to ensure the kinks are worked out.

So, nope, I'm not with ASUU on that one.

proffemi:
Valid points, those.

The question is: how do you go about improving a very expensive system that (a) is absolutely critical to national development (b) is not performing ? A good solution is to spend enough to ensure that the quality of the system rises, flush out non-performing individuals or entities, and put rigorous quality assurance checks in place.



Hmm, TSA. I feel you bro. Somewhere inside me, there is a nod of approval for the TSA idea. Definitely an effective way to reduce corruption, if properly implemented. Unfortunately, the current implementation is creating severe bottlenecks in some cases. IMO, the solution is not to jettison TSA, but to ensure the kinks are worked out.

So, nope, I'm not with ASUU on that one.

@proffemi,

With individuals like you, I guess there is still hope in the system. You are civil and articulate. Keep it up, I hope your like abound. Thank you.

guys I want to sell my bitcoin asap cos I need the money urgently...if you are interested then please contact me and I'll show you proofs, I reside in Lagos so I don't mind meeting up with prospective buyer if he/she reside here. Scammers pls stay off

bigtt76:
How can government fund and grant autonomy at the same time? ASUU de crase shaaaaa. They want government money to spend as they like ko? Why don't they ASUU come up with a scheme to make money for their respective institutions? Useless people like our National Assembly

let me assume you made this comment out of ignorance of how university education is run in this country. This is like the local governments asking for autonomy from the state governments. How can you carry out needed research when the government and NUC pegs how much you get, with little or nothing left for research, and you will still come here to say we produce half-baked or theoretical graduates?

I totally agree for the 1st time with Oby on this one, we have a lot of multinational companies with heavy business interests in this country, the should be encouraged(mandated if need be) to sponsor research in the areas they operate in this country, rather than sponsor reality TV shows that add zero value to the country. Without bankable researchs going on in our various institutions how do we expect our academic products to be recognised worldwide? I have a friend in the UK, he is in the academia. This guy got a research grant worth over a million euros. Why won't he do exploits and be taken seriously the world over. For our universities to be ranked at least among the first 500 in the world, we must fund our universities.

UNESCO wasn't crazy when they mandated countries the world over to give atleast 30% of their yearly budget to the educational sector. Nigeria gives less than 2.5%, and you believe we will develop further than this? ASUU, is doing the country a favour, take or leave it.

bigtt76:
Government funding for research abroad accounts for less than 1% of total funds available to the various institutions for their training and research works.

We too like 'government idle type of jobs' in this country that's why most became lecturers to earn that free idle cash. Have you seen or heard of a lecturer in a law department or medical doctor in the department of medicine that has no private practice or working in a hospital? Once you're a professional or qualified in a profession, nothing stops you from practicing but not so with our lecturers....they must be pampered.

Why do you sound so pained? Google how much the EU, US, Canada and Australia spend annually on research then come back here and comment.

The pampered part really got me laughing, like seriously? I just wish I could make you spend a week, just a week in my office and home, believe me, you will know that we are being paid peanuts.

seunmsg:
I agree with the opinion of Madam Oby. Health workers and university lecturers are the highest paid civil servants in Nigeria but they are the greediest. No matter what you offer them, they will always behave like Oliver twist and ask for more.

I wish the government well as they go about negotiating with ASUU but I will advice them not to be stampeded into making stupid concessions that can't be implemented considering the current economic realities. Irresponsible demands such as exemption of universities from TSA and federal government funding staff schools should never be granted.

The issue of TSA was trashed last year. Those using it as an excuse are mischief makers.

The union of teachers in University staff schools took FGN to court and won their case. It is up to FGN to obey court order or disregard it as usual.

Had FGN been releasing at least 40% of the Universities revitalization funds and Earned academic Allowances every year we wouldn't be where we are today.

They simply slept over the agreement. Didn't even bother to call ASUU for renegotiation.

They MUST honor their part of the agreement.

NB: No Union have, and none can ever, 'stampeded' government in to taking a hasty decision.

What is unrealistic in committing 220b NGN annually to infrastructural development in Nigerian Universities?

What is unrealistic in computing and paying an employee his entitlement at the end of every academic session ( earned academic Allowances ) that is less 10b NGN a year?

What is unrealistic in paying an employee his full salary as and when due?

What is unrealistic in demanding that FGN compel pension commission to issue operational license to NUPEMCO after fullfilling all the registration requirements?

What is unrealistic in asking FGN to honour court judgment asking it to pay the salaries of teachers in Universities staff schools)?

FGN just slept on an agreement it willingly entered into and now is using propaganda to push the blame to the other party.

But I trust ASUU, our Universities will remain under lock and key until those in power wake up to their responsibilities.

Thanks for the clarification UT you're still echoing what I've been saying "encourage the private sector to sponsor research works".

If the government through u guided policies is preventing the academia from accessing enough of this private sector funding, then it is bad and should be addressed correctly.

ASUU on their part should explore ways to make the populace understand clearly the issue at hand and not make us all believe they're clamouring for salary increment under other guise.

ASUU should also find a better means of fighting the government and always embark on strike. The effect is on the students who might be their only hope for tomorrow. If I suffer under persistent strikes I understand nothing about, when I become a minister, I would careless about ASUU.

CzarChris:
let me assume you made this comment out of ignorance of how university education is run in this country. This is like the local governments asking for autonomy from the state governments. How can you carry out needed research when the government and NUC pegs how much you get, with little or nothing left for research, and you will still come here to say we produce half-baked or theoretical graduates?

I totally agree for the 1st time with Oby on this one, we have a lot of multinational companies with heavy business interests in this country, the should be encouraged(mandated if need be) to sponsor research in the areas they operate in this country, rather than sponsor reality TV shows that add zero value to the country. Without bankable researchs going on in our various institutions how do we expect our academic products to be recognised worldwide? I have a friend in the UK, he is in the academia. This guy got a research grant worth over a million euros. Why won't he do exploits and be taken seriously the world over. For our universities to be ranked at least among the first 500 in the world, we must fund our universities.

UNESCO wasn't crazy when they mandated countries the world over to give atleast 30% of their yearly budget to the educational sector. Nigeria gives less than 2.5%, and you believe we will develop further than this? ASUU, is doing the country a favour, take or leave it.

/
I move that the universities be closed permanently instead of churning out a bunch of zombies.

//

[quote author=bigtt76 post=59672510

bigtt76:
Thanks for the clarification UT you're still echoing what I've been saying "encourage the private sector to sponsor research works".

If the government through u guided policies is preventing the academia from accessing enough of this private sector funding, then it is bad and should be addressed correctly.

ASUU on their part should explore ways to make the populace understand clearly the issue at hand and not make us all believe they're clamouring for salary increment under other guise.

ASUU should also find a better means of fighting the government and always embark on strike. The effect is on the students who might be their only hope for tomorrow. If I suffer under persistent strikes I understand nothing about, when I become a minister, I would careless about ASUU.

The FG should bring up policies that mandates the private sector to fund university research, but in my other post, I made it clear that the FG must increase funding to the universities. Do you know the bottlenecks we face to even get consumables to use in the lab to teach students? I'm not talking about research here, don't even get me started on the challenge of electricity.

I say this without contradiction, Google how much the US, EU, UK, Canada and Australia spend annually on funding university education, then you will know that we have lost it in this country. Look ASUU's demands, is not all about pay, it's more about the infrastructural development and funding of the university.

@Iamzik @MT
Thanks for your kind words. All the best.

Thanks once again ...ASUU really need to make clear their demands like I mentioned before. They need to draw up a business case highlighting all these issues so that the whole nation would know where it pinches them. All the best

CzarChris:
The FG should bring up policies that mandates the private sector to fund university research, but in my other post, I made it clear that the FG must increase funding to the universities. Do you know the bottlenecks we face to even get consumables to use in the lab to teach students? I'm not talking about research here, don't even get me started on the challenge of electricity.

I say this without contradiction, Google how much the US, EU, UK, Canada and Australia spend annually on funding university education, then you will know that we have lost it in this country. Look ASUU's demands, is not all about pay, it's more about the infrastructural development and funding of the university.

Just seeing this now [url]https://nairametrics.com/fg-agrees-to-pay-%e2%82%a623-billion-allowances-to-ASUU/[/url] ....the N23Bn is all about 'earned allowances' it seemed

CzarChris:
The FG should bring up policies that mandates the private sector to fund university research, but in my other post, I made it clear that the FG must increase funding to the universities. Do you know the bottlenecks we face to even get consumables to use in the lab to teach students? I'm not talking about research here, don't even get me started on the challenge of electricity.

I say this without contradiction, Google how much the US, EU, UK, Canada and Australia spend annually on funding university education, then you will know that we have lost it in this country. Look ASUU's demands, is not all about pay, it's more about the infrastructural development and funding of the university.

seunmsg:
I agree with the opinion of Madam Oby. Health workers and university lecturers are the highest paid civil servants in Nigeria but they are the greediest. No matter what you offer them, they will always behave like Oliver twist and ask for more.

I wish the government well as they go about negotiating with ASUU but I will advice them not to be stampeded into making stupid concessions that can't be implemented considering the current economic realities. Irresponsible demands such as exemption of universities from TSA and federal government funding staff schools should never be granted.

Please do not misguide the public when commenting on sensitive issues. I'm referring to your comment on health workers. There are two different pay grades for health workers:CONMESS( for doctors) and CONHESS for every other health workers. Which health worker are you now referring to?

Alikote:
the future has been toyed already with joblessnes s

Indeed.....

Check out my signature.

Iamzik:
Give us the breakdown of the supposed N2m per annum (10m per student for 5yr engineering). Even some private universities so not pay that much despite the fact that they do not receive government fund to run the school and pay salaries.

Are you denying wasteful spending, mismanagement and secrecy surrounding financial management of universities in Nigeria?

All the grants that was relieved in the past where is the value. Government should find education adequately, YES but government and society must get accountability and value for money spent

BTW revenue generating agency remit to government coffers. Do universities remit any percentage of their IGR?

Proffemi is right. Even private universities like Covenant still gets a yearly allocation of 2 billion from the church to keep the fees within the reach of the middle class. Many private universities are still having financial problems because revenue isn't correlating with cost. That's why many of them are renting staff rather than employing. When you realise that it takes the school fees of 12 students in a school like covenant to pay one professor's annual salary in a school with about 95 professors then you begin to comprehend the problems of higher education in Nigeria.

@proffemi,
Sir don't you think ASUU is not getting things done timely?
When the President read the budget last year, we saw it clear that it's only 8% that's going to education sector and yet ASUU didn't make a good move to fight that.
The budget is the main instrument of spending of the Federal Government, I think that's where ASUU should start monitoring things.

AtkinsPlanet:
Just remember you are toying with some kids' future, here.

Check out my signature.

her or the kids elders that refused to vote with sense

mikolo80:
her or the kids elders that refused to vote with sense

You said it, not me.