₦airaland Forum

Gaborone:
If I told you of 'unbelievable' testimonies people have shared in church, while holding 'before' and 'after' test results, you wouldn't believe, so, what's the point?

Before and after test results such as what? You claimed that God heals amputees when pressed further you ran away from it and claimed you only heard. We don't want hear say. Where is the actual evidence?

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dalaman:
Before and after test results such as what? You claimed that God heals amputees when pressed further you ran away from it and claimed you only heard. We don't want hear say. Where is the actual evidence?

I'm not going to indulge you by listing them one by one, I'm sorry. There you have another reason not to believe.

To answer you question: I don't have the actual evidence of the testimonies. I didn't steal the test results from the testifiers and the hospitals involved after they were shared in church.

And hey, you're twisting facts. From the get go, I said God can heal amputees, and that I have read of such. I never approbated and reprobated on that one. It was later one I saw some videos with the caption 'creative miracles' when I did a quick search. I couldnt watch, so I referred you to them, and apologized when you said they weren't, and left you to yourself. I don't see the issue there.

Oh, you expected me to start arguing and/or preaching after the video episode.




So sorry, that's so not me.

Lovely weekend.

Gaborone:
I'm not going to indulge you by listing them one by one, I'm sorry. There you have another reason not to believe.

To answer you question: I don't have the actual evidence of the testimonies. I didn't steal the test results from the testifiers and the hospitals involved after they were shared in church.

And hey, you're twisting facts. From the get go, I said God can heal amputees, and that I have read of such. I never approbated and reprobated on that one. It was later one I saw some videos with the caption 'creative miracles' when I did a quick search. I couldnt watch, so I referred you to them, and apologized when you said they weren't, and left you to yourself. I don't see the issue there.

Oh, you expected me to start arguing and/or preaching after the video episode.




So sorry, that's so not me.

Lovely weekend.

Lovely weekend to you too.

dalaman did ghost and foly ever follow through on their 'challenge'?
https://www.nairaland.com/2184719/atheist-please-educate-me-existence/5#31633958

Dereformer:
What I read on Nairaland these days shakes my faith.

Lord Jesus, please do not let me stray away from you.

For I know of your existence and your ways are not the ways of men.

Your thoughts are beyond human thoughts and your actions beyond human comprehension.

Cognitive dissonance at work

DProDG:
dalaman did ghost and foly ever follow through on their 'challenge'?
https://www.nairaland.com/2184719/atheist-please-educate-me-existence/5#31633958

Nope, they didn't. I actually never really expected them to anyway. I gave them a very simple task that was very clear cut but they both ran away from it, once I saw that I knew they weren't serious at all.

Gaborone:
Oh, okay. I know your faith is based on videos, pictures and all, so I'm really sorry about that.

Mine is not anyway, so I keep on believing.

Why did u lie that there were vedios on line. You have never seen or heard an amputated limb grow through miracle yet you believe... And all of a sudden someone who don't believe because he has never seen one is wrong?
What miracles have you ever seen?

Cognitive dissonance at work

Hehehehehehehehe

@dalaman,

The healing of amputees is one of the few "miracles" that cannot be stage-managed!!! This is why the stage manager(fraudster/pastor), cannot perform it!!!

BELOVE! MY REDEEMER AND GOD CHRIST JESUS IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER! THERE IS NOTHING IMPOSSIBLE UNTO HIM...IF CHRIST JESUS WAS ABLE TO CREATE YOU WHOLE, WHY WON'T HE BE ABLE TO REPLACE ANY LOSS OR DAMAGED PART?

bloodofthelamb:
BELOVE! MY REDEEMER AND GOD CHRIST JESUS IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER! THERE IS NOTHING IMPOSSIBLE UNTO HIM...IF CHRIST JESUS WAS ABLE TO CREATE YOU WHOLE, WHY WON'T HE BE ABLE TO REPLACE ANY LOSS OR DAMAGED PART?

Jesus did not create anybody. The writers of the fictional Jesus stories lied. They had Jesus promising those of you that believe in him the ability to do greater things than he did. But in reality no christian can do any of the wonders that Jesus was written to have done because the promise is a lie and the story is fictional.

bloodofthelamb:
BELOVE! MY REDEEMER AND GOD CHRIST JESUS IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER! THERE IS NOTHING IMPOSSIBLE UNTO HIM...IF CHRIST JESUS WAS ABLE TO CREATE YOU WHOLE, WHY WON'T HE BE ABLE TO REPLACE ANY LOSS OR DAMAGED PART?

I agree, so where are the amputee miracles

BELOVE! IF CHRIST JESUS DID NOT CREATE YOU, WHO DID?

Question: "Is cessationism biblical? What is a cessationist?"
Answer: Cessationism is the view that the “miracle gifts” of tongues and healing have ceased—that the end of the apostolic age brought about a cessation of the miracles associated with that age. Most cessationists believe that, while God can and still does perform miracles today, the Holy Spirit no longer uses individuals to perform miraculous signs.
The biblical record shows that miracles occurred during particular periods for the specific purpose of authenticating a new message from God. Moses was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:1-. Elijah was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab (1 Kings 17:1; 18:24). The apostles were given miracles to authenticate their ministry before Israel (Acts 4:10, 16).
Jesus’ ministry was also marked by miracles, which the Apostle John calls “signs” (John 2:11). John’s point is that the miracles were proofs of the authenticity of Jesus’ message.
After Jesus’ resurrection, as the Church was being established and the New Testament was being written, the apostles demonstrated “signs” such as tongues and the power to heal. “Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not” (1 Corinthians 14:22, a verse that plainly says the gift was never intended to edify the church).
The Apostle Paul predicted that the gift of tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:. Here are six proofs that it has already ceased:
1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist.
2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned, although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy. The Greek word translated “prophecy” means “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future.
3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12.
4) Tongues was an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues does not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3).
5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen , Chrysostom , and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.
6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2. As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent. The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27), Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20), Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23), or even himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are 1) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship; and 2) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.
The reasons stated above are evidence for cessationism. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified.


https://www.gotquestions.org/cessationism.html

Have Miracles Ceased?
There are three major time periods seen in the Bible (see "The Bible," subject index on Achieves page). Patriarchy was a period in which God dealt with man through the patriarch or father of the family. This age was inaugurated by miraculous manifestation that we know as miracles. In fact, man himself was miraculously begun (Gen. 1, 2). After a similar fashion, the Mosaic Age was introduced. The ten plagues, miracles in the wilderness, and the miracles of dividing and crossing the Red Sea were all phenomena that irresistibly attested to the divine involvement. Christianity also had its beginning in the climate of divine manifestation. The gospel, the church, and forgiveness of sin through Jesus' blood all began in the presence of miracles (Acts 2). The New Testament is replete with the presence of the phenomena we call miracles (Acts 2: 43, 4 16, 5 12).
The miracles of the New Testament are unmistakable and undeniable. The case of the restoration of the known lame man who had been cripple from birth is a good case study (Acts 3: 1-11). The man was well established as a serious cripple (Acts 3: 2, 10). "Immediately his feet and ankle bones receive strength," we are told (vs. 7). The healed man then leaped up, stood, and walked (vs. . He continued walking and led a normal life (vs. 8, 4: 14). The Sanhedrin that was determined to crush Christianity could not deny this miracle. "And beholding the man which was healed standing with them (apostles, dm), they could say nothing against it" (Acts 4: 14). The historian records the difficulty in which the Sanhedrin found itself: "Saying, what shall we do to these men? For that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it" (Acts 4: 16). Beloved, genuine miracles were so evident (no other explanation) that even the rank enemies of Christianity had to admit they were true miracles! (Click on " The Raising of Lazarus" to study more.) However, were these miracles meant to continue indefinitely or did they have an intended end?
The purpose of miracles . Biblical miracles had an evident role and purpose. First of all, New Testament miracles confirmed the spoken word (Mk. 16: 20). The apostles did not have the New Testament as we have to prove what they taught was correct. Hence, they needed some means of validation. Therefore, we read: "God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit..." (Heb. 2: 4). Not only did these signs and wonders confirm the spoken word, but also they produced faith. When Jesus raised the dead, the people believed (Jn. 11: 45). As a result, when Sergius Paulus beheld the miracle performed by Saul, he "…believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord" (Acts 13: 12, 6-12).
The duration of biblical miracles . Beloved, I want to call your attention to three descriptive words that are crucial in our study of the duration of miracles: "fail" (katargeo), "cease" (pauo), and "vanish away" (argethesetai). These words are used to describe the length of time of prophecies, tongues, and knowledge (miraculous knowledge), respectively. Hear Paul, "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away" (I Cor. 13: 8-10). When would the miraculous (the three gifts stand for the miraculous) end?
The inspired apostle Paul supplies the answer: "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" (I Cor. 13: 9, 10). Concerned reader, the "in part" (meros) was fragmentary and incomplete. The "in part" state corresponds to the state of miraculous gifts mentioned in Ephesians 4: 8-12. In writing to the Ephesians, Paul mentions five offices or functions that were miraculously assisted (vs. 11, cp. vs. . This temporary system involving the miraculous was for the edification and stability of the early church (Eph. 4: 12, cp. I Cor. 14: 1, 5, 12, 17, 26). The corresponding text in Ephesians also stipulates a time period, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man…"(Eph. 4: 13).
What do "that which is perfect" and "the unity of the faith" mean? There are essentially two explanations and answers offered. The first is that the time expressions refer to Jesus, his Second Coming and the second view states the completion of revelation is meant.
The Second Coming of Christ. If the return of Christ is meant, why did not Paul write, "but when the Christ is come (oh Christos)?" Instead, Paul used the neuter gender, referring to a thing, not a person (see addendum 1). Moreover, if the Second Coming of Jesus is meant, then we are in the "in part" state. This presents a serious problem in view of all the scriptures that emphasize the completeness of revelation and of our present system being complete (2 Tim. 3: 16, 17, 2 Pet. 1: 3). Paul wrote, "And ye are complete in him…" (Col. 2: 10, the illustration of I Corinthians 13: 11-13 can also be understood of the word, see James 1: 23-25). Also, the stated purpose of Jesus' miracles is that of producing faith (Jn. 20: 30, 31). Why the need of ongoing miracles? In addition, we have the written word and the written word confirms itself; hence, no need of miracles. We test teachers by their teaching, because we have the complete revealed revelation (2 Jn. 9-11, compare I Jn. 4: 1, 2: 18-20).
The second view, the completion of revelation . The word "perfect" (telios) means full, complete, or mature (telios is translated "of full age" in Hebrews 5: 14). James wrote, "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty…" (Jas. 1: 25, same word as I Cor. 13: 10, see also Rom. 12: 2). The idea of complete revelation is set forth in Ephesians 4: 13, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith…" (telios is also used in the expression "unto a perfect man," ibid.). During the "in part" time period, a prophet would prophesy a truth. However, such was in part and depended on a vulnerable process (I Cor. 14). However, with complete revelation (New Testament), we have the total revealed truth as a unit ("unity of the faith," Jn. 14: 26, 16: 13). This, then, explains why the "perfect thing" (Nestle's Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, to teleion) is used by Paul as opposed to the "Perfect One" (see addendum 2).
Beloved, there are many today that claim to have seen a miracle performed or maintain that they themselves can perform miracles . In all seriousness, are these so called miracles of the type found in the New Testament? Remember, even the enemies of Christianity could not deny the fact of the wondrous miracle in Acts 3 (4: 14, 16). New Testament miracles were open, tangible, and no other explanation could be offered other than they were miracles (see "The Miracles of Jesus," introduction, subject index on Archives page).
Alleged miracles today are often deflective, they take the authority and the validation from the scriptures and place it on the often subjective, sensational, and manipulative (2 Jn. 9-11). Also, we must remember there are "lying wonders" and false religion used "miracles" to promote itself (2 Thes. 2: 3-12).
As we have seen, God introduced different time periods with miracles. In the case of Patriarchy, after God miraculously created man He allowed his natural laws of reproduction, etc., to take over. Intelligent reader, I submit it is the same with Christianity. God introduced Christianity with miracles, but God's "natural" laws govern and procreate today (his word, I Pet. 1: 23). The severed body members, turning water into wine, and the dead being raised are not being done today because miracles have served their purpose and have "failed,""ceased," and "vanished away" (Lk. 22: 50, 51; Jn. 2: 1-11; Jn. 11: 43-46; I Cor. 13: 8-10). Our attention should be focused on the word and "proving all things and holding fast that which is good" (I Thes. 5: 21). Instead of wanting to return to the incomplete (in our case, pseudo miracles), we should take advantage of the complete, the "perfect law of liberty" (Jas. 1: 25). (For a detailed study of the crucial text pertaining to the duration of spiritual gifts, click on " That Which Is Perfect ".)
Addendum 1: In all fairness, the neuter gender is used in I John 1: 1-3. It is contended by the proponents of "miracles" today that certainly John is referring to Christ in this passage. Their conclusion is I John 1: 1-3 proves "that which is perfect" in I Corinthians 13: 10 is referring to Christ. If such were the case, we are now in the "in part" state. Allow me to offer another explanation: John is not simply referring to Christ, but to Christ and to all that appertained to Christ (the gospel system, etc.). Such constitutes the grounds of fellowship (I Jn. 1: 3). You see, just the person of Christ alone is not sufficient grounds for fellowship, Jesus' teaching must also be accepted (2 Jn. 9-11, 2 Jn. 6). Hence, "that which" is comprehensive and is grammatically correct.
Addendum 2: "With the completion of the canon of Scripture prophecy apparently passed away, 1 Cor. 13:8, 9. In his measure the teacher has taken the place of the prophet, cp. the significant change in 2 Pet. 2:1. The difference is that, whereas the message of the prophet was a direct revelation of the mind of God for the occasion, the message of the teacher is gathered from the completed revelation contained in the Scriptures." * [* From Notes on Thessalonians by Hogg and Vine, pp. 196,197.] (W.E. Vine, Expository Dictionary of New Testament Word s, comments found under "prophesy," dm.)

http://www.bibletruths.net/archives/BTARO76.htm

truly, according to the Bible miraculous healing has ceased. any miracle now is either fake or inspired by demons.

bloodofthelamb:
BELOVE! IF CHRIST JESUS DID NOT CREATE YOU, WHO DID?

Jesus is son of God. He is not the creator. He is master worker. Pro 8:22-30. Almighty​ God is the creator.

BELOVE! GOD SAID CHRIST JESUS IS THE CREATOR