₦airaland Forum

mukhtara446:
My Man God is Almighty the creator, Jesus was his messenger sent to his creation to show them how to reconnect to their creator and nothing else " Jesus said, himself can do nothing what he hear he judge and he summited not to his will but to the will of his father. Be like Jesus summit yourself to your creator and follow his commandment and fight your inner Battle between your desire and command. Peace

You response is out of context. I am emphasizing that God punishes disobedience and there are infallible proofs to support it. Do you agree?

mukhtara446:
then where can we see him or did you think that picture is really Jesus. you can't even handle seeing the Sun you talking about seeing his creator. Moses can't handle the sight of God. There is and will forever be One true creator that everything comes from him,whom need nothing and everything is in need of him, he has none in second and he did not share his Glory. He is Almighty the rule of nature don't apply to him. Jesus can't Be God(deity worthy of worship) caused he prove himself to be week.

But there are proofs that Jesus was worshipped in the Bible. God even commanded Angels to worship him.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

mukhtara446:
The Creators Alone has the power to create.

And who is the creator?

adjoviomole:
And who is the creator?

The Almighty Mosh High The supreme and the Absolute deity Of worship whom everything and everyone need him, while he is not in need of anything or anyone cause he created it. The Most mercifully the most generous,the owner of the day of judgements, whom him alone we supposed to enslaved our selves too And whom he alone we supposed to asked for help, caused no one and nothing can "help" us or "harm" us without his permission. The one who know was behind us and was ahead of us, your only true protector. Whom guide the heart of his creation to an everlasting happiness. He has no image that you may think of, And their is nothing like him that you may think of, the one that beautify this world with everything you see in it to differentiate whom among his creation are GOOD IN ACTION. The examiner over his creation on the test and tasked he present to them everyday, anytime. The Only deity worthy of worshiped nothing and no one has ever seen him because he design this life for a reason, The Most Powerful the Most knowledgeable, All things belonged to Him. THAT IS THE CREATOR

Ken4Christ:
But there are proofs that Jesus was worshipped in the Bible. God even commanded Angels to worship him.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

That depend on whom you believed to be the firstbegotten into the world. In My account its Adam after God created him,and breathe spirit into him and told him knowledge he said to the Angels bow down to him, they all did as a sing of respect not worship. Only God deserve to be worship

Ken4Christ:
You response is out of context. I am emphasizing that God punishes disobedience and there are infallible proofs to support it. Do you agree?

Yeah God punished those that disobeyed his commandments. Tell me your essence of life and how do you worship your creator. And back it up with prove were God tell you

shadeyinka:
Does the Quran contain other words than that of Allah?

No Qur'an contain Only God Words, we have a different book that contain the word of the messengers and another one for his companions and their disciples.

shadeyinka:
Please read a few verses above and below, you'll understand that it was Jesus speaking to John. It was a message to the seven churches in Asia.

See the continuation:

Revelation 1:17


Let me indulge you with one more


John14:8-9

The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; that explained everything to you. Jesus is their on a mission if you want to go to the father you must followed Jesus, God has authority over everything.

mukhtara446:
The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; that explained everything to you. Jesus is their on a mission if you want to go to the father you must followed Jesus, God has authority over everything.

Jesus is
the Way
the Truth
the Life

NO ONE GETs to the FATHER except through HIM!

John14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “ I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (NKJV)

What does "no one" mean?

mukhtara446:
No Qur'an contain Only God Words , we have a different book that contain the word of the messengers and another one for his companions and their disciples.

Do you know the Quran at all? You are only following hearsay! Let me give you just one example you've read almost everyday of your life without thinking or asking questions..the Al Fathia (maybe because its in Arabic..you don't understand)

Quran1:1-7
1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

Let me leave vs1 alone since its a common opening for almost all suras of the Quran

vs2. Who is the one ascribing praise to Allah? Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs

vs5. Who is the one worshiping Allah here?

vs6. I believe only a mortal or a jinn need fear the punishment that comes from going astray or what do you think? Is the Almighty Allah afraid of doing wrong to Himself?

vs6. Since God cannot go on a wrong path, who does this aya refer to?

vs7. Who is the THOU in ayat7?
Or the Thee an Thine in vs5


You think everybody is ignorant of the Quran just because its written in Arabic?

The Quran is only the words of Allah indeed!
Answer the Questions and tell me if the Quran is the pure words of Allah or what you've believed over years without question.

Waiting for mukhtara446 to untangle this knot and CLEARLY SHOW US how Al-Fathia is the words of Allah.

shadeyinka:
Do you know the Quran at all? You are only following hearsay! Let me give you just one example you've read almost everyday of your life without thinking or asking questions..the Al Fathia (maybe because its in Arabic..you don't understand)



Let me leave vs1 alone since its a common opening for almost all suras of the Quran

vs2. Who is the one ascribing praise to Allah? Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs

vs5. Who is the one worshiping Allah here?

vs6. I believe only a mortal or a jinn need fear the punishment that comes from going astray or what do you think? Is the Almighty Allah afraid of doing wrong to Himself?

vs6. Since God cannot go on a wrong path, who does this aya refer to?

vs7. Who is the THOU in ayat7?
Or the Thee an Thine in vs5


You think everybody is ignorant of the Quran just because its written in Arabic?

The Quran is only the words of Allah indeed!
Answer the Questions and tell me if the Quran is the pure words of Allah or what you've believed over years without question.

So let me start by Saying, To Us Muslims God is our everything, teacher, helper, our guider to mention a few So V2 Praise and gratitude belongs to God ∆ I don't think I have to tell you noun don't need a doer that's the uniqueness of the word. God don't need your praised, He is Praised Already. He don't need Muhammad, Gabriel or anyone to declared his praised or to give him gratitude. God as our teacher he is teaching us to be humble.

mukhtara446:
So let me start by Saying, To Us Muslims God is our everything, teacher, helper, our guider to mention a few So V2 Praise and gratitude belongs to God ∆ I don't think I have to tell you noun don't need a doer that's the uniqueness of the word. God don't need your praised, He is Praised Already. He don't need Muhammad, Gabriel or anyone to declared his praised or to give him gratitude. God as our teacher he is teaching us to be humble .

I didn't ask about what you believe but for you to read a text of the quran and answer questions based on it.

You unfortunately make the same mistake with the Qur'an. Christians worship ONE GOD, the creator and sustainer of everything with NO partner or coequal. Christians do not worship God , Jesus and Mary as the Quran puts it.

You evaded the discus on the AlFathia completely. The question was not on whether God need worshippers or not the question is about WHO!!?!!

The Qur'an is a Narrative from Allah (the pure words of Allah), so who Spoke/Dictated the Al Fathia? Was it Allah, Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs?

Al Fathia is a beautiful prayer BUT, if it is a prayer, by whom and to who?

So, please answer the question.

[quote author=mukhtara446 post=60118499]So let me start by Saying, To Us Muslims God is our everything, teacher, helper, deity of worship our guider to mention a few So V2 Praise and gratitude belongs to God ∆ I don't think I have to tell you noun don't need a doer that's the uniqueness of the word. God don't need your praised, He is Praised Already. He don't need his messenger, Gabriel or anyone to declared his praised or to give him gratitude. God as our teacher he is teaching us to be humble and the right way to asked him. And in the surah God is teaching his creation how to humble themselves and prepare them mentally and spiritual to asked him daily for the most important thing in this life to be guided to his path not to go astray. If not the most merciful who will teach you how to asked him and reward you for that. We asked for his guide everyday so that to keep on track. that's what you are missing its not what you think, in some other places God used to Say. Say God is One. Say iam seeking refuge from the lord of mankind. If you can asked this questions and claim to know the Qur'an I'm sorry man you don't have a clue.

shadeyinka:
I didn't ask about what you believe but for you to read a text of the quran and answer questions based on it.

You unfortunately make the same mistake with the Qur'an. Christians worship ONE GOD, the creator and sustainer of everything with NO partner or coequal. Christians do not worship God , Jesus and Mary as the Quran puts it.

You evaded the discus on the AlFathia completely. The question was not on whether God need worshippers or not the question is about WHO!!?!!

The Qur'an is a Narrative from Allah (the pure words of Allah), so who Spoke/Dictated the Al Fathia? Was it Allah, Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs?

Al Fathia is a beautiful prayer BUT, if it is a prayer, by whom and to who?

So, please answer the question.

I was writing then something came up but I complete it I told you God is teaching us how to make a decent prayer and asked the right and the most important thing, that matters not to waste our time in asking irrelevant things.

shadeyinka:
I didn't ask about what you believe but for you to read a text of the quran and answer questions based on it.

You unfortunately make the same mistake with the Qur'an. Christians worship ONE GOD, the creator and sustainer of everything with NO partner or coequal. Christians do not worship God , Jesus and Mary as the Quran puts it.

You evaded the discus on the AlFathia completely. The question was not on whether God need worshippers or not the question is about WHO!!?!!

The Qur'an is a Narrative from Allah (the pure words of Allah), so who Spoke/Dictated the Al Fathia? Was it Allah, Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs?

Al Fathia is a beautiful prayer BUT, if it is a prayer, by whom and to who?

So, please answer the question.

And its a prayer, teach by God to his servant simple

shadeyinka:
Jesus is
the Way
the Truth
the Life

NO ONE GETs to the FATHER except through HIM!




What does "no one" mean?

it mean "no one" as a no one at his time when he is sent but its like their is a passage in the bible that Jesus said he only come for the lost sheep of Israel. At the time of Moses NO ONE will go to the father unless through him David, Solomon, Zachariah, Jonah and all the messengers you most obey them and followed them to achieved true success.

mukhtara446:
I was writing then something came up but I complete it I told you God is teaching us how to make a decent prayer and asked the right and the most important thing, that matters not to waste our time in asking irrelevant things.

You know that, that is NOT true.

You want to use different rules for interpreting the Quran and the Bible. If you had read the Al Fathia from the bible, how would you interpret it?


Let me quote another sura that may suggest that.

Quran109:1-4
In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “O disbelievers.
2. I do not worship what you worship.
3. Nor do you worship what I worship.
4. Nor do I serve what you serve.
5. Nor do you serve what I serve.
6. You have your way, and I have my way.”

Allah will say: Say and then we know that whatever follows is what Muslims should say and not Allah

How about

Quran6:104
104. "Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings."

Since Allah is present everywhere, who is the person speaking here?

Quran27:91
91. For me, I have been commanded to serve the Lord of this city, Him Who has sanctified it and to Whom (belong) all things: and I am commanded to be of those who bow in Islam to Allah.s Will,-

Who was given commandment here? The writer of the Quran?


Have I not proven to you that you don't understand many things because it is hidden in Arabic, a language you don't understand!

Will you now affirmatively say that the Quran is the pure words of Allah? He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

You asked a question, but your bias wouldn't allow you to learn

mukhtara446:
it mean "no one" as a no one at his time when he is sent but its like their is a passage in the bible that Jesus said he only come for the lost sheep of Israel. At the time of Moses NO ONE will go to the father unless through him David, Solomon, Zachariah, Jonah and all the messengers you most obey them and followed them to achieved true success.

Of your interpretation is correct, Jesus was claiming
1. To be THE Way (not a way)
2. To be THE Truth (not a truth)
3. To be THE Life (not a life)

And in SINGULAR NOUN:
"I" and not "we"
Jesus spokebof himself and not Moses, Abraham, David etc.

And you must equally accept that Jesus spoke about HIS FATHER! Yet you claim that Jesus is NOT the Son of God.(since the Quran will want us to believe that Jesus was a Son in the Biological sense). You believe He was sent to the lost house of Israel but do cheery picking when it comes to his other words you don't like

shadeyinka:
Of your interpretation is correct, Jesus was claiming
1. To be THE Way (not a way)
2. To be THE Truth (not a truth)
3. To be THE Life (not a life)

And in SINGULAR NOUN:
"I" and not "we"
Jesus spokebof himself and not Moses, Abraham, David etc.

And you must equally accept that Jesus spoke about HIS FATHER! Yet you claim that Jesus is NOT the Son of God.(since the Quran will want us to believe that Jesus was a Son in the Biological sense). You believe He was sent to the lost house of Israel but do cheery picking when it comes to his other words you don't like

Which word did you bring of Jesus himself that I don't accept. Bro Father in the sence that you call God father, And Son of God in the sence that david so call Son of God. And Jesus did not speak English or Greek and word uses to change meaning if translated into two different language So I believed in what ever Jesus said as true "if" he said it.

shadeyinka:
Of your interpretation is correct, Jesus was claiming
1. To be THE Way (not a way)
2. To be THE Truth (not a truth)
3. To be THE Life (not a life)

And in SINGULAR NOUN:
"I" and not "we"
Jesus spokebof himself and not Moses, Abraham, David etc.

And you must equally accept that Jesus spoke about HIS FATHER! Yet you claim that Jesus is NOT the Son of God.(since the Quran will want us to believe that Jesus was a Son in the Biological sense). You believe He was sent to the lost house of Israel but do cheery picking when it comes to his other words you don't like

correct me if I'm wrong or we're did he said contrary to that.

shadeyinka:
You know that, that is NOT true.

You want to use different rules for interpreting the Quran and the Bible. If you had read the Al Fathia from the bible, how would you interpret it?


Let me quote another sura that may suggest that.



Allah will say: Say and then we know that whatever follows is what Muslims should say and not Allah

How about

Since Allah is present everywhere, who is the person speaking here?



Who was given commandment here? The writer of the Quran?


Have I not proven to you that you don't understand many things because it is hidden in Arabic, a language you don't understand!

Will you now affirmatively say that the Quran is the pure words of Allah? He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

You asked a question, but your bias wouldn't allow you to learn

its not about that. I for one iam not a scholar about Qur'an I am learning which take process but I will look what you said up then i will try to reply based on what I understand. Qur'an was revealed in a span of 23 years and in my account the messenger did not know how to read or write, what he heard he speak. I just commented about the fathia cause I study the surah and its grammar. And the reasen why i said the bible has some people word on it is that some people like Paul, he is not with jesus, when jesus is around.

shadeyinka:
You know that, that is NOT true.

You want to use different rules for interpreting the Quran and the Bible. If you had read the Al Fathia from the bible, how would you interpret it?


Let me quote another sura that may suggest that.



Allah will say: Say and then we know that whatever follows is what Muslims should say and not Allah

How about

Since Allah is present everywhere, who is the person speaking here?



Who was given commandment here? The writer of the Quran?


Have I not proven to you that you don't understand many things because it is hidden in Arabic, a language you don't understand!

Will you now affirmatively say that the Quran is the pure words of Allah? He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

You asked a question, but your bias wouldn't allow you to learn

if God tell you in the Qur'an to Say, he is preparing if time arise but he said the word for you to say

mukhtara446:
its not about that. I for one iam not a scholar about Qur'an I am learning which take process but I will look what you said up then i will try to reply based on what I understand. Qur'an was revealed in a span of 23 years and in my account the messenger did not know how to read or write, what he heard he speak. I just commented about the fathia cause I study the surah and its grammar. And the reasen why i said the bible has some people word on it is that some people like Paul, he is not with jesus, when jesus is around.

I appreciate your humility wherein you said that you will do more study. We are all learning and only a fool says he knows everything.


Your argument of Paul really doesn't hold water because of the Quran and the traditions of prophet Mohammed.
1. If you have read the Taurat, Zabura, etc (the scripture of the Jews), you will discover that they are ALL words of Men relating information because they were asked to by God. There is NOT one single scripture book that is "the literal word of God".

The only claim of exception is the Quran for which I have just expounded that the claim is false.

2. The scriptures of the Christian during the time of Prophet Mohammed was called Injeel (or generally gospel). It wasn't separated into books like Matthew, Mark, Luke.....as known by Muslims then. Infact, Prophet Mohammed believed that the scrpiture of the christian spoke about him (since he was unlettered, he couldn't verify by himself).

If the Almighty Allah recognizes the Injeel, who are you modern day Muslims to separate it. Mind you, the scripture of the christian had been competed and in circulation from 70AD. Now, almost 500 years after, Islam arrived.

Jesus did NOT write nor did He dictate any part of the christian scripture (as erroneously claimed by Muslims that the Injeel was revealed or given to Jesus).

3. How come such an error was in the Bible and the Almighty Allah kept quiet about it. Do you think it makes sense? So, Paul isn't the issue, Mathew, Mark, Luke and John isn't for each were not part of the 12 disciples of Jesus. The gospel is inseparable.

Will you agree is I separate the Quran based of whether it was revealed in Mecca or in Medina?

mukhtara446:
Which word did you bring of Jesus himself that I don't accept. Bro Father in the sence that you call God father, And Son of God in the sence that david so call Son of God. And Jesus did not speak English or Greek and word uses to change meaning if translated into two different language So I believed in what ever Jesus said as true "if" he said it.

Where would you find the words of Jesus?
In the Bible or in the Quran!

Don't forget that you just accused Paul of not being a disciple of Jesus (hence he cannot speak for Jesus). How aboutbprophet Mohammed who lived 560years after the death, resurrection and assertion of Christ.

Always Use the same standard of judgement.

mukhtara446:
that might be the speech of the lord because it's say "I" And that isn't Jesus it's the Almighty lord of the heavens and earth below

Is like you want to know the truth.
Jesus Christ is the Word from the beginning through which the earth was created.
Man sinned against God, since then man normally killed animals for sin atonement.
God in HIS infinite mercy wanted to restore the cordial relationship between HIM and man, but to achieve this there must be shedding of blood of man that knows no sin. This was the reason Jesus Christ came to the world to reconcile man back to God.
God is the father of Jesus Christ, which He clearly declared when He was here on earth. God also confirmed it that Jesus Christ is HIS beloveth son.
Hope you get it.
Thanks.

mukhtara446:
The Almighty Mosh High The supreme and the Absolute deity Of worship whom everything and everyone need him, while he is not in need of anything or anyone cause he created it. The Most mercifully the most generous,the owner of the day of judgements, whom him alone we supposed to enslaved our selves too And whom he alone we supposed to asked for help, caused no one and nothing can "help" us or "harm" us without his permission. The one who know was behind us and was ahead of us, your only true protector. Whom guide the heart of his creation to an everlasting happiness. He has no image that you may think of, And their is nothing like him that you may think of, the one that beautify this world with everything you see in it to differentiate whom among his creation are GOOD IN ACTION. The examiner over his creation on the test and tasked he present to them everyday, anytime. The Only deity worthy of worshiped nothing and no one has ever seen him because he design this life for a reason, The Most Powerful the Most knowledgeable, All things belonged to Him. THAT IS THE CREATOR

I can see you are doing your best not to mention Allah. Jesus (isa) in your quran created a bird from clay and he gave it life....

Note this.. He created and also gave life to what he created... No prophet in history could do it not even your so called Muhammed...

In case you want to say God gave him the power or that he cannot do anything of himself..... In the quran isa(Jesus) is known as the word. In the Bible God created Everything with his word (jesus)

My question to you now is, is the word creator or creation?

plainbibletruth:
Waiting for mukhtara446 to untangle this knot and CLEARLY SHOW US how Al-Fathia is the words of Allah.

You again with ur nonsense

Anyways, enjoy 2 mins video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qQY253QJks

Empiree:
You again with ur nonsense

Anyways, enjoy 2 mins video

The issue at hand has been very well dealt with by shadeyinka that I don't even need to comment unless to add a thing or two.

That the quran contains both words of Allah and those of man and angels should be clear to any sensible person.

plainbibletruth:
The issue at hand has been very well dealt with by shadeyinka that I don't even need to comment unless to add a thing or two.

That the quran contains both words of Allah and those of man and angels should be clear to any sensible person.

PAIN

And I don't need to say much either bcus a lot has been said in different threads over the yrs.

Quran is the word of God relating past, present and future events to the messanger

Empiree:
PAIN

And I don't need to say much either bcus a lot has been said in different threads over the yrs.

Quran is the word of God relating past, present and future events to the messanger

You must agree that there is simply no way you can refute the presentation. That is if you will be as honest as this muktara- guy.

plainbibletruth:
You must agree that there is simply no way you can refute the presentation. That is if you will be as honest as this muktara- guy.

refute?. U think I have your time? . Are you any stranger to me?.


Quran being a Divine Revelation is the ABSOLUTE WORD of God to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).

Onus is on you to prove otherwise with reference