₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
refute?. U think I have your time? . Are you any stranger to me?.


Quran being a Divine Revelation is the ABSOLUTE WORD of God to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).

Onus is on you to prove otherwise with reference

For starters let's stick the portion of the quran being dealt with here. Quran 1: 1-7 does not contain ONLY the words of Allah. Neither does quran 6:104 and 27:91. It's clear there that it's a man or at best an angel talking.

So, if we are to believe that the Quran is entirely the word of Allah, Is Allah asking himself (Allah) to pray to Himself?
Who is worshipping who?
Who is asking for whose help?

plainbibletruth:
For starters let's stick the portion of the quran being dealt with here. Quran 1: 1-7 does not contain ONLY the words of Allah. Neither does quran 6:104 and 27:91. It's clear there that it's a man or at best an angel talking.

So, if we are to believe that the Quran is entirely the word of Allah, Is Allah asking himself (Allah) to pray to Himself?
Who is worshipping who?
Who is asking for whose help?

Don't derail his thread though. I'd thought you would open a thread and mentioned me. Anyways, the sura you mentioned is called Umm al-kitab (Mother Of The Book). Also called Umm al-Quran (Mother Of The Quran).


So it is not man or angel talking. Rather, it is God (Allah) Almighty glorifying Himself. He was teaching us how to glorify Him. This Noble chapter is used in every single prayer Muslims perform. It is very important for us to use it because in our prayers we glorify Allah Almighty. That is why He (Allah) taught us how to glorify Him in Words and Actions so we can do it right.

Empiree:
Don't derail his thread though. I'd thought you would open a thread and mentioned me. Anyways, the sura you mentioned is called Umm al-kitab (Mother Of The Book). Also called Umm al-Quran (Mother Of The Quran).


So it is not man or angel talking. Rather, it is God (Allah) Almighty glorifying Himself. He was teaching us how to glorify Him. This Noble chapter is used in every single prayer Muslims perform. It is very important for us to use it because in our prayers we glorify Allah Almighty. That is why He (Allah) taught us how to glorify Him in Words and Actions so we can do it right.

1. There is actually the belief that Surah 1 was a prayer written as an introduction to the quran.

2. This prayer must have been composed after the recension that produced the current longest-to-shortest ordering of the suras. In other words, that this surah was recorded after the period of "revelation" of the main quran. That is why it does not follow the longest-to-shortest organization rule of arrangement of the chapters of the quran.
3. The ambiguity of Surah1:5 also leaves room for doubting it was part of the quran.


In this surah, Allah is in the second person. That is, Allah is spoken to. It would be strange, out of place and even nonsensical for the supposed divine author of a statement or prayer for that matter to speak to himself, particularly, to pledge to serve and seek help from himself. It just does not make sense.

If Allah is teaching man what to pray or how to pray I believe the statement should read something like "Pray like this: ........" or "When you pray, say: ......"

But that is not the case here in the sura 1:1-7 I'm referring to.

It is the first person figure of speech used here - 'It is you we worship ........'
Someone other than Allah is the one making this statement since there is nothing here to show that Allah is directing his subjects to pray saying those words.

The "you" and the "we" are obviously two separate sets of persons, so as there is clearly no instruction here telling us it is a directive from allah on how to pray the only reasonable conclusion we can reach is that it is the words of man or angel addressing Allah.

So we find here and elsewhere in the Quran words or statements made by men and angels. In other words, it is not ONLY Allah that was speaking in the whole of the Quran. Sometimes it was Allah's words, at other times it was the words of men or angels.

Sura 19:64
[Gabriel said], "And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful -

Neither does quran 6:104 and 27:91 consist of the words of Allah.

Look at the grammar in each case. Explain it if you will.

Don't try to defend the indefensible just simply because you want to blind yourself to the defects of the quran.

Copy paste nonsense. You are diverting and coming up with multiple claims at a time, and i honestly have no time at hand for that right now.Is that your tactic now?. To inundate me with garbage?. WHen you sort urself out one by one, then we can talk.


Qur'an says:


And this Quran is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns,and all that exists). Yunus 37

plainbibletruth:
1. There is actually the belief that Surah 1 was a prayer written as an introduction to the quran.

2. This prayer must have been composed after the recension that produced the current longest-to-shortest ordering of the suras. In other words, that this surah was recorded after the period of "revelation" of the main quran. That is why it does not follow the longest-to-shortest organization rule of arrangement of the chapters of the quran.
3. The ambiguity of Surah1:5 also leaves room for doubting it was part of the quran.


In this surah, Allah is in the second person. That is, Allah is spoken to. It would be strange, out of place and even nonsensical for the supposed divine author of a statement or prayer for that matter to speak to himself, particularly, to pledge to serve and seek help from himself. It just does not make sense.

If Allah is teaching man what to pray or how to pray I believe the statement should read something like "Pray like this: ........" or "When you pray, say: ......"

But that is not the case here in the sura 1:1-7 I'm referring to.

It is the first person figure of speech used here - 'It is you we worship ........'
Someone other than Allah is the one making this statement since there is nothing here to show that Allah is directing his subjects to pray saying those words.

The "you" and the "we" are obviously two separate sets of persons, so as there is clearly no instruction here telling us it is a directive from allah on how to pray the only reasonable conclusion we can reach is that it is the words of man or angel addressing Allah.

So we find here and elsewhere in the Quran words or statements made by men and angels. In other words, it is not ONLY Allah that was speaking in the whole of the Quran. Sometimes it was Allah's words, at other times it was the words of men or angels.

Sura 19:64
[Gabriel said], "And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful -

Neither does quran 6:104 and 27:91 consist of the words of Allah.

Look at the grammar in each case. Explain it if you will.

Don't try to defend the indefensible just simply because you want to blind yourself to the defects of the quran.

Empiree:
Copy paste nonsense. You are diverting and coming up with multiple claims at a time, and i honestly have no time at hand for that right now.Is that your tactic now?. To inundate me with garbage?. WHen you sort urself out one by one, then we can talk.

Qur'an says:

And this Quran is not such as could ever be pro

[b]When you guys can't reasonably respond to superior arguments you resort to all kind of underhand tactics.

What copy and paste are you talking about?

Even if I copied and pasted why not respond to it if you actually can?

You only need to check my thread on 'Is Allah Praying to Allah Here?' to see that I've dealt with this same issue before now.

To make it easy, if you're up to the task, just start with Q. 1:1-7 and answer my questions. Otherwise just admit and be honest perhaps for once in your life that we are right that it is not ONLY Allah that was speaking in the whole of the Quran. Sometimes it was Allah's words, at other times it was the words of men or angels.

plainbibletruth:
When you guys can't reasonably respond to superior arguments you resort to all kind of underhand tactics.

What copy and paste are you talking about?

Even if I copied and pasted why not respond to it if you actually can?

You only need to check my thread on 'Is Allah Praying to Allah Here?' to see that I've dealt with this same issue before now.

To make it easy, if you're up to the task, just start with Q. 1:1-7 and answer my questions. Otherwise just admit and be honest perhaps for once in your life that we are right that it is not ONLY Allah that was speaking in the whole of the Quran. Sometimes it was Allah's words, at other times it was the words of men or angels.

Again, i am simply not interested in ths conversation for now. It 's boring to me. Knowing fully well that it subject already addressed decades after decades,i see no reason to worry much. All i can say is i am not in proper mood for your nonsense now.


Besides, are you even ready to digest the truth?. For the fact that i know you too well you not gonna admit anything, that weakens me. I will respond at my own pace not at your service

“Those who can make you believe
absurdities can make you commit atrocities”. - Voltair

"I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6

"Come to me, all who are weary and heavily burdened [by religious rituals that provide no peace], and i will give you rest [refreshing your souls with salvation]. Matthew 11:28

"And there is salvation IN NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved" Acts 4:12

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (the command to believe) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” – John 3:36

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” – Acts 16:3

Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God. That is the hard truth. You need to follow him.
You may not have had a choice going into Islam but you certainly can have a choice in deciding your eternal destiny by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You don’t have to become irrational in blind defence of a religion that promises you no guaranteed eternity with God.

mukhtara446:
then who is his father that he used to mentioned

That is why you need to read the only Word of God for answers. Let me start you up on some pointers:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (Genesis 1:26a).

Who was speaking here?
To whom?

mukhtara446:
then who is his father that he used to mentioned

Read this article for enlightenment.

The Father Testifies of the Son
September 6, 2017

"Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again" (John 12:28).

This is the last of three remarkable occasions during the earthly ministry of Christ when God the Father spoke directly from heaven concerning His only begotten Son. The first was at His baptism. "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matthew 3:17; also, Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22). This thrice-recorded testimony was given primarily to the forerunner, John the Baptist, who said, "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost" (John 1:33).

The second was to three chosen disciples at the transfiguration. "Behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him" (Matthew 17:5). Years later Peter recalled, "This voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount" (2 Peter 1:18).

Finally, the Father spoke in the words of our text for the day, in direct response to the prayer of His Son at the beginning of the final week before His crucifixion. The message was to His Son but for the people. Jesus said, "This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes" (John 12:30) as He spoke of His imminent death on the cross.

When God spoke from heaven, the message was to assure and encourage His own dear ones: John, the disciples, and Jesus Himself. But it has also become an exhortation to all people for all time. Jesus Christ is God's Son, and God is glorified in Him. Hear Him! HMM

For more . . . .

frosbel2:
Gibberish

There is ONLY ONE GOD.

Do you know Him?

OLAADEGBU:
Do you know Him?

According to your Cult I do not know him, but according to the one and true God , he knows me

frosbel2:
According to your Cult I do not know him, but according to the one and true God , he knows me

Do you know who your god really is?

good morning ous, Mr ola adegbu I saw ur post and am very interesting in ur topic.. pls can u tell me how many places in the bible where xtian was mention? and did Jesus Christ ever mention in the bible that he himself is a Christian... thanks

Ahmed445:
good morning ous, Mr ola adegbu I saw ur post and am very interesting in ur topic.. pls can u tell me how many places in the bible where xtian was mention? and did Jesus Christ ever mention in the bible that he himself is a Christian... thanks

If you are interested in the topic then address the OP. Don't derail the topic by raising questions not related to the topic. Good day.

shadeyinka:
Does the Quran contain other words than that of Allah?

yes the Noble Quran contain only the word of Almighty Allah

OLAADEGBU:
Do you know who your god really is?

Deeperlife and their madness ¬

Ahmed445:
yes the Noble Quran contain only the word of Almighty Allah

and it was reveal through the holy prophet Muhammed...

frosbel2:


Deeperlife and their madness ¬

The Pharisees and Scribes called Jesus and His apostles worse names.

OLAADEGBU:
If you are interested in the topic then address the OP. Don't derail the topic by raising questions not related to the topic. Good day.

pls can u pls just review the topic so that I can give u the answer....

OLAADEGBU:
If you are interested in the topic then address the OP. Don't derail the topic by raising questions not related to the topic. Good day.

pls can u pls just review the topic so that I can give u the answer....

OLAADEGBU:
If you are interested in the topic then address the OP. Don't derail the topic by raising questions not related to the topic. Good day.

pls can u pls review the question. so I can give u plain answer

Ahmed445:
pls can u pls review the question. so I can give u plain answer

Read through the OP and then answer this question. If your God disagrees with you regarding the Bible and its message, why then do you disobey his instructions to you regarding submission to the Bible and its message of salvation?

mukhtara446:
then who is his father that he used to mentioned

u are not been specific... that is Jesus the creator and did he create the heaven and earth?

Ahmed445:
yes the Noble Quran contain only the word of Almighty Allah

I have answered this before on this thread.


Do you know the Quran at all? You are only following hearsay! Let me give you just one example you've read almost everyday of your life without thinking or asking questions..the Al Fathia (maybe because its in Arabic..you don't understand)

Quran1:1-7
1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

Let me leave vs1 alone since its a common opening for almost all suras of the Quran

vs2. Who is the one ascribing praise to Allah? Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs

vs5. Who is the one worshiping Allah here?

vs6. I believe only a mortal or a jinn need fear the punishment that comes from going astray or what do you think? Is the Almighty Allah afraid of doing wrong to Himself?

vs6. Since God cannot go on a wrong path, who does this aya refer to?

vs7. Who is the THOU in ayat7?
Or the Thee an Thine in vs5


You think everybody is ignorant of the Quran just because its written in Arabic?

The Quran is only the words of Allah indeed!
Answer the Questions and tell me if the Quran is the pure words of Allah or what you've believed over years without question.


Let me quote another sura that may suggest that.

Quran109:1-4
In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “O disbelievers.
2. I do not worship what you worship.
3. Nor do you worship what I worship.
4. Nor do I serve what you serve.
5. Nor do you serve what I serve.
6. You have your way, and I have my way.”

Please help me interpret the above. Is Allah worshipping something?

Allah will say: Say and then we know that whatever follows is what Muslims should say and not Allah

How about

Quran6:104
104. "Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings."

Since Allah is present everywhere, who is the person speaking here?

Quran27:91
91. For me, I have been commanded to serve the Lord of this city, Him Who has sanctified it and to Whom (belong) all things: and I am commanded to be of those who bow in Islam to Allah.s Will,-

Who was given commandment here? The writer of the Quran?


Have I not proven to you that you don't understand many things because it is hidden in Arabic, a language you don't understand!

Will you now affirmatively say that the Quran is the pure words of Allah? He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

You asked a question, but your bias wouldn't allow you to learn

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=59887926][/quote]mr ola adegbu gud evening, I love ur write up but will like to prove many things about the truth religion ISLAM ... I will be glad if u can add me up WhatsApp or u give me ur numba... dis is mine 08162684836.. thanks

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=59887926][/quote]mr ola adegbu gud evening, I love ur write up but will like to prove many things about the truth religion ISLAM ... I will be glad if u can add me up WhatsApp or u give me ur numba... dis is mine 08162684836.. thanks..

mukhtara446:
what kind of a god would punish me because of what natural man can't understand, he didn't make it natural, he did not say he is god when he came, he pray to someone for assistant when he need it with his head on the ground in total submission and cry out for help. he pray in the temple, And its like Jesus said he came for the lost sheep of Israel only

gud evening Mr ken, I love ur courage but u are not being specific to all the questions his asking u... but if u don't mind u can direct ur questions to me or to know more about the only true religion ISLAM u can add me on WhatsApp or u give me ur numba and I will add up. if u don't mind dis is mine 08162684836... thanks

OLAADEGBU:
Before I answer your question, have you got any objection to the OP?

gud evening Mr Muktara I love ur courage I Mr Olaadegbu brought up and I love the way Mr ken is supporting him but have challenge them to add me on WhatsApp to relate with them the truth about the truth religion ISLAM but it will be my pleasure if they lkindly take a boldly step... thank you

Ahmed445:
gud evening Mr ken, I love ur courage but u are not being specific to all the questions his asking u... but if u don't mind u can direct ur questions to me or to know more about the only true religion ISLAM u can add me on WhatsApp or u give me ur numba and I will add up. if u don't mind dis is mine 08162684836... thanks

OK what i what to know is that is Jesus that some Christians say he is God, is he the one that created everything or not. Are You Christian

shadeyinka:
I have answered this before on this thread.


Do you know the Quran at all? You are only following hearsay! Let me give you just one example you've read almost everyday of your life without thinking or asking questions..the Al Fathia (maybe because its in Arabic..you don't understand)



Let me leave vs1 alone since its a common opening for almost all suras of the Quran

vs2. Who is the one ascribing praise to Allah? Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs

vs5. Who is the one worshiping Allah here?

vs6. I believe only a mortal or a jinn need fear the punishment that comes from going astray or what do you think? Is the Almighty Allah afraid of doing wrong to Himself?

vs6. Since God cannot go on a wrong path, who does this aya refer to?

vs7. Who is the THOU in ayat7?
Or the Thee an Thine in vs5


You think everybody is ignorant of the Quran just because its written in Arabic?

The Quran is only the words of Allah indeed!
Answer the Questions and tell me if the Quran is the pure words of Allah or what you've believed over years without question.


Let me quote another sura that may suggest that.



Please help me interpret the above. Is Allah worshipping something?

Allah will say: Say and then we know that whatever follows is what Muslims should say and not Allah

How about

Since Allah is present everywhere, who is the person speaking here?



Who was given commandment here? The writer of the Quran?


Have I not proven to you that you don't understand many things because it is hidden in Arabic, a language you don't understand!

Will you now affirmatively say that the Quran is the pure words of Allah? He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

You asked a question, but your bias wouldn't allow you to learn

Hello Good evening All the passage above that you mention Are God words revealed to his prophet. I tell you before in Islam God is our teacher everything you see is a direct conversation between a slave and his master, his teaching his prophet and his followers what to say and how to say it. That is one of the reason the prophet don't know how to read and right, what he hear he speak

OLAADEGBU:
Read this article for enlightenment.

So From what I read above, when Jesus is on earth their is God in the heaven's. And you believed God is One, Then who is Jesus, some Christians used to say Jesus was God too.

mukhtara446:
Hello Good evening All the passage above that you mention Are God words revealed to his prophet. I tell you before in Islam God is our teacher everything you see is a direct conversation between a slave and his master, his teaching his prophet and his followers what to say and how to say it. That is one of the reason the prophet don't know how to read and right, what he hear he speak

It is either deliberately you shut down your faculties or you didn't read a thing. You obviously don't read the quran neither do you understand a thing there. If you do, let's discuss

You said:

Ahmed445:
yes the Noble Quran contain only the word of Almighty Allah

This means, no words of Mohammed nor Jinn nor Angel nor man is in the Quran. All in the Qur'an was spoken by Allah

I showed you in plain English words other than words of Allah and with a wave of hands without answering the question you repeated your recitation instead of point by point showing how I am wrong.

Oya,
Sura1:1-7 who was speaking here?
vs2. Who is the one ascribing praise to Allah? Mohammed, Jubril or one of the Caliphs

vs5. Who is the one worshiping Allah here?

vs6. I believe only a mortal or a jinn need fear the punishment that comes from going astray or what do you think? Is the Almighty Allah afraid of doing wrong to Himself?

vs6. Since God cannot go on a wrong path, who does this aya refer to?

vs7. Who is the THOU in ayat7?
Or the Thee an Thine in vs5

In case you need a jog

Quran1:1-7
1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.