adepeter2027:

Bro, be honest please.

You say faith is proof?
Proof of what?
Seems you don't know how to define faith.


Definition of faith
faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11: 1.

do not forget this character of faith... Concreteness of confidence.... Someone who have faith rely so much on this concept... I gave an analogy
that an atheist may have faith that he or she is loved by someone, yet this is a condition which can't be scientifically proven. But there IS evidence; selfless acts of kindness, physical attraction.

dalaman:
I've tried to study evolution for years but I just can not understand it. It is just full of speculation, wild guesses and assumptions for me to take it seriously.

Some part of it makes sense though but as a whole it's riddled with so many fallacies and nonsense.

Creationism is also the same pile of nonsense. Creationism is worse because it is completely mythical.

Hi dalaman, if you think evolution is utter bunk. How do you explain the fact that modern species still carry a DNA coding for complex features that are not expressed because the DNA is switched off? For instance Whales carry gene for four limbs and land mammal olfactory genes. Some whales have the gene for teeth. Several species of bird also have all the gene for making teeth. The kiwi bird has tiny insignificant wings which are completely useless. How do you explain all these with a creationist POV? How do you explain evolution correctly predicting those common ancestors before we even know that there are some genes in the new species that supports the ancestry? Even before we knew about genetics? We've gotta respect that bro.

The fact evolution is missing some link isn't enough to label it as outright nonsense because so far none has come close to explaining the diversity in our world today like the theory of evolution.

Again when you take a closer and deeper look at organisms you'd realize they've gone through some amendments/modifications which nullifies the argument for a designer who creates from a fresh start. What kind of designer would want to make a plane but draw a bus then modify it to become a plane, and leave some bus features in his new plane like a gearstick? instead of just making a plane? It makes no sense.

Creationism is the complete bunk my good friend dalaman, and not evolution.

butterflyl1on:


Faith is the connecting power into the spiritual realm, which links us with God and makes Him become a tangible reality to the sense perceptions of a person.

Someone with this faith does not require scientific validation as he knows how he feels in the face of faith and how real this faith makes God appear to him.

Science only validates what is tangible so is limited to what we perceive via our senses. However faith is what makes our senses perceive God so in essence faith is beyond the grasp of scientific evaluation but the results and physical responses to faith are not.

If you do not understand the divide between faith and science then stop talking about it.

I feel it in my heart/mind(anecdotal evidence) isn't an evidence but a mind control.

We only speak of faith when evidence is lacking/absent.

vaxx:
until we begin to see difference between logic and science.... The issue will never be settle... The empirical evidence isnt the only method of truth seeking... In court of law for instance... They are so many method of truth seeking which do not follow scientific method...

True! Very many court cases are ruled on based on simply corroborative eye witness accounts. Some are based on simple logic. A lot of times lawyers argue before the judge and jury based on logic and grill witnesses also based on logic and it is he whom his argument is convincing enough that the jury would rule in favour of.

Also in law, empirical scientific evidence has been proven wrong a lot of times through logic. For example, 2 people are seen walking together and one says, he wants to buy something from a store and leaves the other alone. Someone putting on gloves comes and kills the one left alone with knife. The one in the store comes out later and sees his friend in a pool of blood, dead with a knife by his side, he unknowingly picks up the knife and holds his friend, his friends blood is on him, the murder weapon now has his finger prints on them and people run out and see him in that position.

Scientific evidence says, the blood is on him, he was seen as if caught right in the act and only his prints are on the knife. That is all scientific evidence sees and knows. Logic now takes over and begins to break down this evidence to see how much of it is true and often times logic can prove that the scientific evidence though true was not correct by fingering the innocent person as the murderer.

Those who say empirical evidence is the only way, are simply being naive.

adepeter2027:

Not just assumption but false assumptions.
No religion has been able to explain 1% of everything it claims to match reality.

You say faith is proof?
Proof of what?
Seems you don't know how to define faith.


Definition of faith
faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11: 1.

This is serious.

Can you provide link or are they just mere critics of science?

You gave biblical definition of faith regarding God but we said faith is not only applied when God is in the picture. We deal with faith daily in our normal every day lives as well wouldn't you agree?

vaxx:
do not forget this character of faith... Concreteness of confidence.... Someone who have faith rely so much on this concept... I gave an analogy
that an atheist may have faith that he or she is loved by someone, yet this is a condition which can't be scientifically proven. But there IS evidence; selfless acts of kindness, physical attraction.

No reasonable person will assume or play a card of risk believing someone loves him/her without convincing expression of the other party.

Do you wanna equate loving someone as having faith in love/affection? Cos I'm not understanding your analogy.

Infact, they don't correspond at all

butterflyl1on:


You gave biblical definition of faith regarding God but we said faith is not only applied when God is in the picture. We deal with faith daily in our normal every day lives as well wouldn't you agree?

Can you give example(s) where "we" (take note of the word) apply faith in our everyday life/activities

adepeter2027:

I feel it in my heart/mind(anecdotal evidence) isn't an evidence but a mind control.

We only speak of faith when evidence is lacking/absent.

Faith is beyond the physical evidence you seek. The result of faith can be measured but faith itself cannot be physically assessed until it has served its purpose.

We speak of faith when evidence is already there for it. You quoted Hebrews 11 I suggest you read it again.

Faith IS THE SUBSTANCE of things hoped for THE EVIDENCE of things not seen.

Faith when focused on God does not subscribe to the workings of mans physical perceptions so when man says faith means absence and God says faith means present even when we physically see absence then you need to know that God's angle to faith is far far deeper than our human perception can offer.

adepeter2027:

Can you give example(s) where "we" (take note of the word) apply faith in our everyday life/activities

I already did.

butterflyl1on:


Faith is beyond the physical evidence you seek. The result of faith can be measured but faith itself cannot be physically assessed until it has served its purpose.

We speak of faith when evidence is already there for it. You quoted Hebrews 11 I suggest you read it again.

Faith IS THE SUBSTANCE of things hoped for THE EVIDENCE of things not seen.

Faith when focused on God does not subscribe to the workings of mans physical perceptions so when man says faith means absence and God says faith means present even when we physically see absence then you need to know that God's angle to faith is far far deeper than our human perception can offer.

You know what, we are never going to come to a single conclusion cos Christianity is about faith and that's exactly what you're doing..

Same way science is based on physical facts and evidence.

You talk "Christian-wise", I talk non-Christian-wise

We are two parallel lines that can never meet

butterflyl1on:


I already did.

Hmmm, really?

adepeter2027:

Can you give example(s) where "we" (take note of the word) apply faith in our everyday life/activities

Here is another way to view faith and how tangible it is.

NEED

You have 2 million naira and you want to buy a car. You go online and search for one and you find the perfect one for you.

PRAYER

You call the seller and your communication with him shows that yes it is perfect for you then he says you can come check it out.

WORKS

you book an inspection appointment and on that day you go check it out physically and you like what you see. You then promise to come the next day to pay and pick it up which you do.

FULFILMENT or JUSTIFICATION

you pay and pick up the car keys and drive away with it. It is now yours.

Faith is the cash you have in exchange for the vehicle. FAITH REPRESENTS THE VEHICLE YOU ARE YET TO HAVE. FAITH IS THE VEHICLE!

you trade it in for the vehicle and then the vehicle becomes a reality.

We apply this physically daily in practically all areas of our lives. The difference is because we are physical so we relate more from the physical side which is why many can only see this side. God however is a spirit so would speak from the spiritual side but the application is the same.

adepeter2027:

Hmmm, really?

I did when I talked about Dangote and 1 million naira promise.

butterflyl1on:


Here is another way to view faith and how tangible it is.

NEED

You have 2 million naira and you want to buy a car. You go online and search for one and you find the perfect one for you.

PRAYER

You call the seller and your communication with him shows that yes it is perfect for you then he says you can come check it out.

WORKS

you book an inspection appointment and on that day you go check it out physically and you like what you see. You then promise to come the next day to pay and pick it up which you do.

FULFILMENT or JUSTIFICATION

you pay and pick up the car keys and drive away with it. It is now yours.

Faith is the cash you have in exchange for the vehicle. FAITH REPRESENTS THE VEHICLE YOU ARE YET TO HAVE.

you trade it in for the vehicle and then the vehicle becomes a reality.

We apply this physically daily in practically all areas of our lives. The difference is because we are physical so we relate more from the physical side which is why many can only see this side. God however is a spirit so would speak from the spiritual side but the application is the same.

Sorry to say bro, I still don't read any meaning in this message.

Like I say, we will never agree on this topic of FAITH,no matter what..

adepeter2027:

Sorry to say bro, I still don't read any meaning in this message.

Like I say, we will never agree on this topic of FAITH,no matter what..

The simple reason why you cannot read the glaring message there and grasp it is because you are fleshly and not spiritual.

A fleshly minded man cannot understand the things of the spirit.

1st Corinthians 2:14

But the (fleshly) natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

adepeter2027:

No reasonable person will assume or play a card of risk believing someone loves him/her without convincing expression of the other party.

Do you wanna equate loving someone as having faith in love/affection? Cos I'm not understanding your analogy.

Infact, they don't correspond at all

risk is a way of measuring whom you are... You take risk, you can easily calculate the expansiveness of your capacity.. A reasonable man should therefore take the risk.... Who know it may be true and if otherwise you have no worries.... It will only give you the opportunity to learn next time....


Yes... To belive someone love you is a faith that cant be scientifically proven.. Love work with faith.... Physical qualities isnt enough measurement...

STUPUDTHEISTS:


Hi dalaman, if you think evolution is utter bunk. How do you explain the fact that modern species still carry a DNA coding for complex features that are not expressed because the DNA is switched off? For instance Whales carry gene for four limbs and land mammal olfactory genes. Some whales have the gene for teeth. Several species of bird also have all the gene for making teeth. The kiwi bird has tiny insignificant wings which are completely useless. How do you explain all these with a creationist POV? How do you explain evolution correctly predicting those common ancestors before we even know that there are some genes in the new species that supports the ancestry? Even before we knew about genetics? We've gotta respect that bro.

The fact evolution is missing some link isn't enough to label it as outright nonsense because so far none has come close to explaining the diversity in our world today like the theory of evolution.

Again when you take a closer and deeper look at organisms you'd realize they've gone through some amendments/modifications which nullifies the argument for a designer who creates from a fresh start. What kind of designer would want to make a plane but draw a bus then modify it to become a plane, and leave some bus features in his new plane like a gearstick? instead of just making a plane? It makes no sense.

Creationism is the complete bunk my good friend dalaman, and not evolution.

Am not a creationist. In fact creationism is completely mythical and fictitious.

There are many parts of evolution that depend too.much on assumptions and the alleged intelligent guesses of its proponents. Part if it make sense and it remains the best explanation we have for the diversity of life but a lot of it is nonsene in my opinion.

butterflyl1on:


The simple reason why you cannot read the glaring message there and grasp it is because you are fleshly and not spiritual.

A fleshly minded man cannot understand the things of the spirit.

1st Corinthians 2:14

But the (fleshly) natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You are just speaking alot of words without saying AANYTHING AT ALL. Give is a specific example of this your spirit at work that is objective so that anybody that sees it ot encounter it will know and agree that it is what you are saying.

vaxx:
if that is the case... My friend logical evidence of water taken its colour from sky hasn't been prove wrong...

What colour?

dalaman:


You are just speaking alot of words without saying AANYTHING AT ALL. Give is a specific example of this your spirit at work that is objective so that anybody that sees it ot encounter it will know and agree that it is what you are saying.

If you do not understand a thing then do not respond to it UNTIL you do. If you did not see or understand my explanation about a God focused faith then write ONLY when you do. Why would you after all I said to adepeter still ask to SEE. seeing being something that is applicable to our physical perception alone. Or you do not still understand that the spiritual isn't the physical?

Please dalaman it's not a must that you engage in a fruitless argument all the time especially when you always fail to understand before you type.

butterflyl1on:


If you do not understand a thing then do not respond to it UNTIL you do. If you did not see or understand my explanation about a God focused faith then write ONLY when you do. Why would you after all I said to adepeter still ask to SEE. seeing being something that is applicable to our physical perception alone. Or you do not still understand that the spiritual isn't the physical?

Please dalaman it's not a must that you engage in a fruitless argument all the time especially when you always fail to understand before you type.

You are still talking nonsense my friend. You didn't see where I wrote encounter? An example of this your spirit at work so that anybody that encounters in what ever way it will come to an agreement with you is what you are to demonstrate.

vaxx:
on this case ... Can we both agree that evolution theory and creationist ideology still need more evidence of truth .....before we can finally give a conclusion..... ?

I don't think we can agree on that. Evolution is supported by a staggering body of evidence. Creationism is supported by staggering speculations.

AgentOfAllah:

What colour?

the colourless nature of both object ....

dalaman:


You are still talking nonsense my friend. You didn't see where I wrote encounter? An example of this your spirit at work so that anybody that encounters in what ever way it will come to an agreement with you is what you are to demonstrate.

I indeed wonder if you read what you write.

From your comment

Give is a specific example of this your spirit at work that is objective so that anybody that sees it ot encounter it will know and agree that it is what you are saying.

The spirit isn't available to ANYBODY but to specific people who have first of all genuinely given their lives to Christ. Plus God isn't objective.

I know you will say I am still talking nonsense so kindly let my nonsense make sense to me alone.

Good afternoon

vaxx:
risk is a way of measuring whom you are... You take risk, you can easily calculate the expansiveness of your capacity.. A reasonable man should therefore take the risk.... Who know it may be true and if otherwise you have no worries.... It will only give you the opportunity to learn next time....


Yes... To belive someone love you is a faith that cant be scientifically proven.. Love work with faith.... Physical qualities isnt enough measurement...

I still want you to define faith because that's my own definition of faith. And if we don't agree on a common definition, then we will keep arguing and disagreeing over nothing.

Furthermore, you analogy of love isn't FAITH for a sane human being

vaxx:
the colourless nature of both object ....

Colourless (col·or·less): Without colour

You cannot say two things which are colourless have the same colour, let alone that one derives its colour from another. That's just abuse of logic.

butterflyl1on:


The simple reason why you cannot read the glaring message there and grasp it is because you are fleshly and not spiritual.

A fleshly minded man cannot understand the things of the spirit.

1st Corinthians 2:14

But the (fleshly) natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Blood of jesus.

Butterflyli-on, have you come across a "spiritual" ATHEIST? Cos you're surprising me like die.

IF I'm spiritual, then I'm not an ATHEIST.

adepeter2027:

I still want you to define faith because that's my own definition of faith. And if we don't agree on a common definition, then we will keep arguing and disagreeing over nothing.

Furthermore, you analogy of love isn't FAITH for a sane human being

Vaxx is right to an extent about love being likened to faith.

Can love by itself be seen? NO!

Can love by itself be touched? NO!

Can love be felt by the carrier? YES!
How? ONLY THE CARRIER CAN EXPLAIN HOW!

Can love by itself be measured? NO BUT WE CAN MEASURE ITS ACTIONS!

if we cannot see or touch love but can feel it in a non tangible way yet express it tangibly then what makes us so sure that love is real when in itself cannot be scientifically observed unless AFTER when acted upon.

Vaxx is right!

dalaman:


You are just speaking alot of words without saying AANYTHING AT ALL. Give is a specific example of this your spirit at work that is objective so that anybody that sees it ot encounter it will know and agree that it is what you are saying.

LoL

You are wicked dalama-n

adepeter2027:

Blood of jesus.

Butterflyli-on, have you come across a "spiritual" ATHEIST? Cos you're surprising me like die.

IF I'm spiritual, then I'm not an ATHEIST.

I didn't say you are spiritual. I said YOU ARE FLESHLY (CARNAL) AKA HUMAN. where did you read where I said you were spiritual?

Thanks for validating my comment that an atheist CAN NEVER FLOW WITH SPIRITUAL THINGS.

AgentOfAllah:


Colourless (col·or·less): Without colour

You cannot say two things which are colourless have the same colour, let alone that one derives its colour from another. That's just abuse of logic.

Vaxx is comparing two unequal things...

It's really surprising tho

butterflyl1on:


I didn't say you are spiritual. I said YOU ARE FLESHLY (CARNAL) AKA HUMAN. where did you read where I said you were spiritual?

Thanks for validating my comment that an atheist CAN NEVER FLOW WITH SPIRITUAL THINGS.

I quite agree with you that atheists can never flow with things of the spirit....

Just the same way a MUSLIM will never agree JESUS died for HIS SINS.