cuedish:
Tithe or whatsoever money we give in the church is not in any way connected to our blessings....

Our God is a free giver....
He says : I WILL BLESS WHOM I WILL BLESS ...

let's say NO to manipulation.

Pls stop deceiving people here. Givers never lack and give it shall be given to you.

cuedish:

Only if you know what it means when God have mercy on you.

Pls quote the Bible correctly.

Zeze06:
What's the difference??

He failed the Bible verse. 1 and 2 are numbers but not the same.

Obodo999:
I will have to change my plate number to "TITHING IS A FRAUD"

me too, I'm thinking of putting "I don't tithe""". Let's see what that fraud of a pastor is trying to create about blessings from so called tithing

Oluwapresley:
WHAT TRIGGERED THE MARTIN LUTHER REFORMATION?
Here is the story, and why I think the Church is back to where it was before the Martin Luther Reformation exactly 500 years ago.
1. Before 1517, everyone belonged to the Roman Catholic Church which was the official religion, with the Pope as the head. The Pope had the final say on all issues concerning religion.
2. Pope Leo X wanted to build a fanciful Church building called St. Peters Basilica in Rome. The building was going to cost him so much. Hence, he decided to raise money from the sale of indulgences from purgatory.
3. Purgatory was invented by the Catholic Pope during the Crusades in order to get more men into the army. The pope claimed he could buy souls back from hell. His soldiers believed him and the practice continued.
4.The manipulation of the people through the sale of indulgences from purgatory(Offering God money in order to get God's favor) infuriated Martin Luther. The same idea of indulgences and purgatory was why MANDATORY TITHES and offerings got established in the early Church. 'God gets excited at the sound of coins in the offering plate'.
5. On Oct. 31st, 1517, a Roman Catholic Monk named Martin Luther posted 95 Theses on the door of the Church claiming salvation was by faith alone, among others. He claimed the Pope had no power to forgive sins or collect indulgences from purgatory.
His 5 pillars were, 1) sola fide( faith alone), 2) sola scriptura (by scriptures alone), 3) solus Christus (through Christ alone), 4)sola gratia (by grace alone), 5)soli deo gloria (for God's glory alone)
6. The posting of the theses happened at the early beginnings of the invention of the print media, just like today's internet. Within weeks, Luther's theses was widespread all over Germany, and all over Europe within months.
7. Before that, nobody had challenged the authority of the Church or Pope and lived. The Church had killed all scientists, historians or anyone who had a contrary view to the Pope. Often burning them publicly or beheading them.
8. Hence, the posting of the Theses was like Martin Luther posting his own death notice.
Ever heard the story of David and Goliath? The Pope was Goliath, Martin Luther was not even a David, he was a worm. The Pope could crush him easily. Somehow, the Pope was not able to. He referred to Luther as a wild boar. Luther often referred to the Pope as a 'lustful dog'.
9. Martin Luther was summoned by the council of Church and State to recant his writings. He declared he wouldn't as he was prepared to die for what his conscience believed.
10. Meanwhile, he remained in the Roman Catholic Church as starting another form of Christianity was not his goal. Luther's mission was to reform the Roman Catholic Church.
11. The Pope declared Luther a non-grata, meaning whoever killed him was doing God a favor. His life was put at risk.
12. Martin Luther was then kidnapped by close friends and hidden in a castle. His physical form was disguised for fear that he would be killed. He had already become so popular in Europe through his writings.
13. While hidden away and in Isolation, he translated the entire Bible for the first time into German from Latin, giving everyone access to the Bible for the first time. From German, it was then translated into other languages. This officially put an end to the dark age, the age of gross illiteracy.
14. Before Luther's Bible, the Bible had only existed in Greek and Latin which only Priests had access to. You could be killed if found with a copy of the Bible. This gave the Priests so much power, similar to today's Priests and Pastors.
15. As more people read the Bible for themselves, revolts broke out all over Europe as people saw how the Church had taken advantage of them over many years. The Pope lost so much power and the Roman Catholic Church became irrelevant. Luther called out the Popes, Bishops, and princes without mincing words, often challenging them to public debates.
16. Because everyone now had the Bible, different sections began to break out of the Catholic Church every man claiming his own revelation. There were the Lutherans, Calvinists, Puritans, Unitarians, Anglicans, and many more. The differences between them were so slight and insignificant, and denominationalism was born. This revolt led to the killing of so many of the revolters by the Catholic Church.
17. Each of these denominations grew so much in power, became capitalists and began to practice in new forms and with new languages, exactly what the Catholic Church was doing that led to the break out of the reformation in the first place.
18. Denominationalism then became Capitalism. Churches became more about big and beautiful buildings, how much profit you can get from the people, selling cajoles to people in exchange for money in order to fund the lavish lifestyles.
19. 500 years after, we are back to where it all began. We are practicing that old form of Catholicism. The church now is about money and buildings, tithes and offerings.
20. Who shall write for us another 95 theses?
500 years of the Reformation. We are still bleeding...
Success O. Fakolade, MD
Oct. 2017
Pray for the Church!!!


And you know the worst part of everything?
When people pay their tithe, the pastor calls them out and prays for them with a specific tone; "God bless these ones that have given to you." The others that don't have to give, they are left to say amen to the prayers for others. And you say you are giving willingly? Nope, you are not!! You are giving to avoid being cursed cox the pastor makes you feel that not giving when others are giving carries a curse already... and he tries to buttress his point by praying for them specially.

I always ask; do you know how many people have lost loved ones because they had to choose between paying their tithe or paying their loved one's medical bills? Do you know how many marriages have been broken and how many people have become homeless cox they decided to choose between paying tithe and doing the needful? My God won't want that kind of dealings. He wants you to be happy; Not broken as a result of the loss of your loved ones, not homeless, not a divorcé. He wants a cheerful giver, not a giver under compulsion!!! But pastors have made you give under compulsion because they make you feel you are robbing God and as a result you would be cursed! Very wrong!!! Very Very Wrong!!! "No one taketh My life, I lay It down." So if you can't take God's life, how do you think you can rob God? Hahaha..

Martin Luther's reforms were not achieved,it compounded perceived abnormalities in the early church. Lesson from the so called Luther's reforms (1) No one fight for God. (2) pray to God in ur closet for God to change sauls in the fold to Paul,only God can do it not humans like Luther.(3) Luther became instrument for satan unknowingly thinking he was fighting forGod and liberating people.Be patient,be responsive.Always allow God to lead in any course U champion.(4) Martin Luther regretted his actions and asked for forgiveness. Hmmm, the sheep had scattered,he can't bring them back,if he had listened to Paul's warning in the bible about sectionalism perhaps the one fold could remain. The Catholic he intends to destroy 500 years ago is waxing stronger with billions faithfuls.

Pointblank09:

PASTORS don't pay they only collect.

winners chapel paid over 2b as tithe to redeem last yr

Oluwapresley:
WHAT TRIGGERED THE MARTIN LUTHER REFORMATION?
Here is the story, and why I think the Church is back to where it was before the Martin Luther Reformation exactly 500 years ago.
1. Before 1517, everyone belonged to the Roman Catholic Church which was the official religion, with the Pope as the head. The Pope had the final say on all issues concerning religion.
2. Pope Leo X wanted to build a fanciful Church building called St. Peters Basilica in Rome. The building was going to cost him so much. Hence, he decided to raise money from the sale of indulgences from purgatory.
3. Purgatory was invented by the Catholic Pope during the Crusades in order to get more men into the army. The pope claimed he could buy souls back from hell. His soldiers believed him and the practice continued.
4.The manipulation of the people through the sale of indulgences from purgatory(Offering God money in order to get God's favor) infuriated Martin Luther. The same idea of indulgences and purgatory was why MANDATORY TITHES and offerings got established in the early Church. 'God gets excited at the sound of coins in the offering plate'.
5. On Oct. 31st, 1517, a Roman Catholic Monk named Martin Luther posted 95 Theses on the door of the Church claiming salvation was by faith alone, among others. He claimed the Pope had no power to forgive sins or collect indulgences from purgatory.
His 5 pillars were, 1) sola fide( faith alone), 2) sola scriptura (by scriptures alone), 3) solus Christus (through Christ alone), 4)sola gratia (by grace alone), 5)soli deo gloria (for God's glory alone)
6. The posting of the theses happened at the early beginnings of the invention of the print media, just like today's internet. Within weeks, Luther's theses was widespread all over Germany, and all over Europe within months.
7. Before that, nobody had challenged the authority of the Church or Pope and lived. The Church had killed all scientists, historians or anyone who had a contrary view to the Pope. Often burning them publicly or beheading them.
8. Hence, the posting of the Theses was like Martin Luther posting his own death notice.
Ever heard the story of David and Goliath? The Pope was Goliath, Martin Luther was not even a David, he was a worm. The Pope could crush him easily. Somehow, the Pope was not able to. He referred to Luther as a wild boar. Luther often referred to the Pope as a 'lustful dog'.
9. Martin Luther was summoned by the council of Church and State to recant his writings. He declared he wouldn't as he was prepared to die for what his conscience believed.
10. Meanwhile, he remained in the Roman Catholic Church as starting another form of Christianity was not his goal. Luther's mission was to reform the Roman Catholic Church.
11. The Pope declared Luther a non-grata, meaning whoever killed him was doing God a favor. His life was put at risk.
12. Martin Luther was then kidnapped by close friends and hidden in a castle. His physical form was disguised for fear that he would be killed. He had already become so popular in Europe through his writings.
13. While hidden away and in Isolation, he translated the entire Bible for the first time into German from Latin, giving everyone access to the Bible for the first time. From German, it was then translated into other languages. This officially put an end to the dark age, the age of gross illiteracy.
14. Before Luther's Bible, the Bible had only existed in Greek and Latin which only Priests had access to. You could be killed if found with a copy of the Bible. This gave the Priests so much power, similar to today's Priests and Pastors.
15. As more people read the Bible for themselves, revolts broke out all over Europe as people saw how the Church had taken advantage of them over many years. The Pope lost so much power and the Roman Catholic Church became irrelevant. Luther called out the Popes, Bishops, and princes without mincing words, often challenging them to public debates.
16. Because everyone now had the Bible, different sections began to break out of the Catholic Church every man claiming his own revelation. There were the Lutherans, Calvinists, Puritans, Unitarians, Anglicans, and many more. The differences between them were so slight and insignificant, and denominationalism was born. This revolt led to the killing of so many of the revolters by the Catholic Church.
17. Each of these denominations grew so much in power, became capitalists and began to practice in new forms and with new languages, exactly what the Catholic Church was doing that led to the break out of the reformation in the first place.
18. Denominationalism then became Capitalism. Churches became more about big and beautiful buildings, how much profit you can get from the people, selling cajoles to people in exchange for money in order to fund the lavish lifestyles.
19. 500 years after, we are back to where it all began. We are practicing that old form of Catholicism. The church now is about money and buildings, tithes and offerings.
20. Who shall write for us another 95 theses?
500 years of the Reformation. We are still bleeding...
Success O. Fakolade, MD
Oct. 2017
Pray for the Church!!!


And you know the worst part of everything?
When people pay their tithe, the pastor calls them out and prays for them with a specific tone; "God bless these ones that have given to you." The others that don't have to give, they are left to say amen to the prayers for others. And you say you are giving willingly? Nope, you are not!! You are giving to avoid being cursed cox the pastor makes you feel that not giving when others are giving carries a curse already... and he tries to buttress his point by praying for them specially.

I always ask; do you know how many people have lost loved ones because they had to choose between paying their tithe or paying their loved one's medical bills? Do you know how many marriages have been broken and how many people have become homeless cox they decided to choose between paying tithe and doing the needful? My God won't want that kind of dealings. He wants you to be happy; Not broken as a result of the loss of your loved ones, not homeless, not a divorcé. He wants a cheerful giver, not a giver under compulsion!!! But pastors have made you give under compulsion because they make you feel you are robbing God and as a result you would be cursed! Very wrong!!! Very Very Wrong!!! "No one taketh My life, I lay It down." So if you can't take God's life, how do you think you can rob God? Hahaha..

thanks for this bro,this is really insightful . I learned a lot through the write up now. being illiterate is not all about not going o school alone. we are back to 500years ago indeed in everything here in Nigeria. we are still battling with road construction,electricity,bad governance,bad leadership,church doing it's own and manipulating us with religion. thanks for the write up. this is a great way to move forward in the country,Freeze is indeed a blessing I see becoming really prominent in the nearest future. religion is very important in Nigeria and the manipulation has led to a lot of backwardness in other sectors including choosing the right leaders and what have you. Once the church manipulation jinx is broken,other sectors will start fixing themselves automatically and people will realise they have the right to hold their leaders accountable for anything since they can challenge pastors they are as above leaders. people will get more fearless

Oluwapresley:
WHAT TRIGGERED THE MARTIN LUTHER REFORMATION?
Here is the story, and why I think the Church is back to where it was before the Martin Luther Reformation exactly 500 years ago.
1. Before 1517, everyone belonged to the Roman Catholic Church which was the official religion, with the Pope as the head. The Pope had the final say on all issues concerning religion.
2. Pope Leo X wanted to build a fanciful Church building called St. Peters Basilica in Rome. The building was going to cost him so much. Hence, he decided to raise money from the sale of indulgences from purgatory.
3. Purgatory was invented by the Catholic Pope during the Crusades in order to get more men into the army. The pope claimed he could buy souls back from hell. His soldiers believed him and the practice continued.
4.The manipulation of the people through the sale of indulgences from purgatory(Offering God money in order to get God's favor) infuriated Martin Luther. The same idea of indulgences and purgatory was why MANDATORY TITHES and offerings got established in the early Church. 'God gets excited at the sound of coins in the offering plate'.
5. On Oct. 31st, 1517, a Roman Catholic Monk named Martin Luther posted 95 Theses on the door of the Church claiming salvation was by faith alone, among others. He claimed the Pope had no power to forgive sins or collect indulgences from purgatory.
His 5 pillars were, 1) sola fide( faith alone), 2) sola scriptura (by scriptures alone), 3) solus Christus (through Christ alone), 4)sola gratia (by grace alone), 5)soli deo gloria (for God's glory alone)
6. The posting of the theses happened at the early beginnings of the invention of the print media, just like today's internet. Within weeks, Luther's theses was widespread all over Germany, and all over Europe within months.
7. Before that, nobody had challenged the authority of the Church or Pope and lived. The Church had killed all scientists, historians or anyone who had a contrary view to the Pope. Often burning them publicly or beheading them.
8. Hence, the posting of the Theses was like Martin Luther posting his own death notice.
Ever heard the story of David and Goliath? The Pope was Goliath, Martin Luther was not even a David, he was a worm. The Pope could crush him easily. Somehow, the Pope was not able to. He referred to Luther as a wild boar. Luther often referred to the Pope as a 'lustful dog'.
9. Martin Luther was summoned by the council of Church and State to recant his writings. He declared he wouldn't as he was prepared to die for what his conscience believed.
10. Meanwhile, he remained in the Roman Catholic Church as starting another form of Christianity was not his goal. Luther's mission was to reform the Roman Catholic Church.
11. The Pope declared Luther a non-grata, meaning whoever killed him was doing God a favor. His life was put at risk.
12. Martin Luther was then kidnapped by close friends and hidden in a castle. His physical form was disguised for fear that he would be killed. He had already become so popular in Europe through his writings.
13. While hidden away and in Isolation, he translated the entire Bible for the first time into German from Latin, giving everyone access to the Bible for the first time. From German, it was then translated into other languages. This officially put an end to the dark age, the age of gross illiteracy.
14. Before Luther's Bible, the Bible had only existed in Greek and Latin which only Priests had access to. You could be killed if found with a copy of the Bible. This gave the Priests so much power, similar to today's Priests and Pastors.
15. As more people read the Bible for themselves, revolts broke out all over Europe as people saw how the Church had taken advantage of them over many years. The Pope lost so much power and the Roman Catholic Church became irrelevant. Luther called out the Popes, Bishops, and princes without mincing words, often challenging them to public debates.
16. Because everyone now had the Bible, different sections began to break out of the Catholic Church every man claiming his own revelation. There were the Lutherans, Calvinists, Puritans, Unitarians, Anglicans, and many more. The differences between them were so slight and insignificant, and denominationalism was born. This revolt led to the killing of so many of the revolters by the Catholic Church.
17. Each of these denominations grew so much in power, became capitalists and began to practice in new forms and with new languages, exactly what the Catholic Church was doing that led to the break out of the reformation in the first place.
18. Denominationalism then became Capitalism. Churches became more about big and beautiful buildings, how much profit you can get from the people, selling cajoles to people in exchange for money in order to fund the lavish lifestyles.
19. 500 years after, we are back to where it all began. We are practicing that old form of Catholicism. The church now is about money and buildings, tithes and offerings.
20. Who shall write for us another 95 theses?
500 years of the Reformation. We are still bleeding...
Success O. Fakolade, MD
Oct. 2017
Pray for the Church!!!


And you know the worst part of everything?
When people pay their tithe, the pastor calls them out and prays for them with a specific tone; "God bless these ones that have given to you." The others that don't have to give, they are left to say amen to the prayers for others. And you say you are giving willingly? Nope, you are not!! You are giving to avoid being cursed cox the pastor makes you feel that not giving when others are giving carries a curse already... and he tries to buttress his point by praying for them specially.

I always ask; do you know how many people have lost loved ones because they had to choose between paying their tithe or paying their loved one's medical bills? Do you know how many marriages have been broken and how many people have become homeless cox they decided to choose between paying tithe and doing the needful? My God won't want that kind of dealings. He wants you to be happy; Not broken as a result of the loss of your loved ones, not homeless, not a divorcé. He wants a cheerful giver, not a giver under compulsion!!! But pastors have made you give under compulsion because they make you feel you are robbing God and as a result you would be cursed! Very wrong!!! Very Very Wrong!!! "No one taketh My life, I lay It down." So if you can't take God's life, how do you think you can rob God? Hahaha..

Interesting read.

see Tithe payer

teflonjake:


Jargon

Princehojay:
see Tithe payer

Yes o, and my tithe is bigger than what you earn in 6months

ogologoamu:



Pls stop deceiving people here. Givers never lack and give it shall be given to you.

you're still in the dark. givers of beggars,millions of kids out of school,millions of widows,poor and destitute never lack and not givers of multi millionaire and billionaire fraudsters

Tithing is a freewill thing therefore, no one should be forced to paying of tithes.... Tithing attracts blessings from God!

Read Deuteronomy 28 Vs 1-14

Tithe is meant to be for you and your family, for the poor (very important) and the levites (people serving in the house of God). It's compulsory that you must help the poor, eat your tithe during God's feast and help the Levites cos as the scripture puts it(they have no inheritance in the land).

When you tithe the proper way, I see it as understanding Deut 8:18 and the verse says: "But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it's He that giveth thee the power to make wealth, that He may establish His convenant which He sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day" KJV

I'm not giving to pastors, I'm telling God that I know nothing is really mine, He gave me to hold and could take it if He wishes so. While I respect the 'real' men of God, my total allegiance lies with my maker.

American billionaires show this by sharing or using a large percentage of their wealth during their life time to help the poor.

Imagine the amount of wickedness that will be eliminated in Nigeria if we all use one tenth of our income to help the poor.

And note: wickedness was the primary sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.

A blast from Atina John in response to Reinhard Bonkie's comment during the farewell crusade in Lagos.
Evang. Charles Awuzie wrote:
A Nigerian prophet came to Durban some years ago and preached a message titled "Grace for New Levels"...he kept screaming "I prophesy, you shall get your visa to America" and nobody said Amen. It was in an 80% Indian Church. Nobody in that service needed a visa to America, they were very comfortable in South Africa. They visit America and come back to their good jobs and families. At the end of the service, the prophet chatted me on WhatsApp and told me that the people were not "RECEPTIVE" of his prophetic grace. He said that everytime he preached such messages in Nigeria, people will begin to testify of getting visas etc.
I said to him...
"My brother, calm down. South Africans are not running away from their country like Nigerians. South Africa has a functional system unlike Nigeria. If the Nigerian Government was functional, no Nigerian would say amen to prophecies like getting a visa. Visa is not the gospel, new car is not the gospel, new house is not the gospel, these things can be bought by anybody who earns an average salary in this country. Next time, just preach Jesus and the people will be open to receive Jesus."
His response was very embarrassing and I can't even reproduce it here.
The things Nigerians sow seeds for back in Nigeria are freely available in functional societies.
Nigerian Christians fast, bind wicked uncles and sow seeds for visas... South African, British and American Christians just get their papers together and proceed to the embassy and get their visas. The difference is not spiritual, the difference is in the functionality of the systems.
A Nigerian tithes to prosper, the rest of the world work in multiple jobs, engage in business and prospers. The difference is not spiritual, the difference is in the functionality of the system.
90% of Nigerian pastors in South Africa complain that South Africans don't take God serious and I laugh at them. Nigerians don't take God serious, not South Africans. A Nigerian drug dealer will have drugs in his pocket while leading in intercessory prayers. A South African will rather stay back at home than to come to church and live a hypocritical life. So who is really joking with God?
I know how Nigerian internet love scamners sow seeds to prophets for god to make their victims fall into their scam.
Nigeria is not a godly nation, we are a religious nation. All our political leaders claim that it was God who put them there.
Nigerians should go and seek God without attaching their needs. Then we will know that we are truly a God loving nation. For now, we are just the most religious nation in Africa.
We are using God to get visas, cars, health, houses, marriage etc.

cuedish:
Tithe or whatsoever money we give in the church is not in any way connected to our blessings....

Our God is a free giver....
He says : I WILL BLESS WHOM I WILL BLESS ...

let's say NO to manipulation.

Free giver indeed He is, he’s giving us life, sun rain earth and so many others, and He also said he’d bless those he feels like but the question who are those who He feels like blessing of course he won’t be looking forward to reward those who steal from the hungry...
So who are these people He’d bless: since you paraphrase from the Bible I’d point some scriptures for you.

1) psalms 84:11 those who walk upright you can say the righteous (this shows that He has people Hed continually bless, when it comes to their case he doesn’t choose).

2)proverbs 11:24 those who gather yet scatter and those who scatter but gather this to go without saying that those who give stand a better chance of getting as the saying goes givers never lack.

I could go on and on, my point is:

If you don’t know your bible don’t misquote it it’s also dangerous to you as you might scatter Gods flock and there’re dangers for doing so.
Tithe is a way of giving to God and indeed there’re blessing for tithing enormous stated in the book of Malachi it is your choice not to tithe or even give offerings I don’t think anyone would kill you for not doing so but let the Bible be the judge.

Laggatumuch:
There is something you guys don't simply understand,you can't discern spiritual things canally.
Just becareful what you say because if you are totally wrong and lead people astray with your words ,then remember you are not fighting pastors or teachers or any man of God but you fighting God himself. Tithe and offering belongs to God ,pay your tithe and offering and remove your mind and thoughts from what the church is using it for because it belongs to God and whosoever mishandle the tithe or the offering will be punished by God himself be him a pastor or not.
No amount of words you write here can change how God operates ,so leave God's duty to him and do what he asks you to do .
All of us here including myself pointing fingers we have all fallen short of the glory of God one way or the other and we commit worse sins ,instead of us to be busy working out our salvation with fear and trembling to make sure we make heaven at last we are here judging others.
Be warned God is not a respecter of any man ,before you comment anything that has to do with God examine yourself first.

my brother I don't know your level of education but if you have a bsc which I can bet my life that you don't then you really need to further your education. If after masters and phd you still reason so low then you still need to further tell you are released from the the ignoranace and spell these fraudsters have casted on you. So our politicians that use our taxes for their personal gain shouldn't be jailed or arrested or even criticize when caught or accused Abi So this is what these Yahoomen have made you ppl to blindly believe That even if they buy private jets and carry oloshos with your money then you are not in a position to say anything??

Ah haaa now I finally see why these pastors are hell bent on shutting daddy freeze up, coz he will not just send them bank to proverty but they will surely be brought to book for those they have swallowed already...


Bro, I am getting my plate number soon, I am no small guy either so let's see whose blessing is greater. It's now a car war, a Camry looking ride with **I tithe "" inscription or a more exortic one with **I don't tithe""

I tithe too

JohnieWalker:
We are not forcing you pay na. Allow us that are paying to pay

you ain't paying a dime MR,

you are either a pro pasta in the making .

JohnieWalker:
We are not forcing you pay na. Allow us that are paying to pay

you ain't paying a dime MR,

you are either a pro pasta in the making .

sinceraconcept:
you're still in the dark. givers of beggars,millions of kids out of school,millions of widows,poor and destitute never lack and not givers of multi millionaire and billionaire fraudsters

I was poor and my pastor gave me money to start business, today I am an importer........ Bro Smith's testimony

You don't know the commitments of these pastors and how they have helped their poor members to stand. Stop been judgemental here.

frankpro27:
A blast from Atina John in response to Reinhard Bonkie's comment during the farewell crusade in Lagos.
Evang. Charles Awuzie wrote:
A Nigerian prophet came to Durban some years ago and preached a message titled "Grace for New Levels"...he kept screaming "I prophesy, you shall get your visa to America" and nobody said Amen. It was in an 80% Indian Church. Nobody in that service needed a visa to America, they were very comfortable in South Africa. They visit America and come back to their good jobs and families. At the end of the service, the prophet chatted me on WhatsApp and told me that the people were not "RECEPTIVE" of his prophetic grace. He said that everytime he preached such messages in Nigeria, people will begin to testify of getting visas etc.
I said to him...
"My brother, calm down. South Africans are not running away from their country like Nigerians. South Africa has a functional system unlike Nigeria. If the Nigerian Government was functional, no Nigerian would say amen to prophecies like getting a visa. Visa is not the gospel, new car is not the gospel, new house is not the gospel, these things can be bought by anybody who earns an average salary in this country. Next time, just preach Jesus and the people will be open to receive Jesus."
His response was very embarrassing and I can't even reproduce it here.
The things Nigerians sow seeds for back in Nigeria are freely available in functional societies.
Nigerian Christians fast, bind wicked uncles and sow seeds for visas... South African, British and American Christians just get their papers together and proceed to the embassy and get their visas. The difference is not spiritual, the difference is in the functionality of the systems.
A Nigerian tithes to prosper, the rest of the world work in multiple jobs, engage in business and prospers. The difference is not spiritual, the difference is in the functionality of the system.
90% of Nigerian pastors in South Africa complain that South Africans don't take God serious and I laugh at them. Nigerians don't take God serious, not South Africans. A Nigerian drug dealer will have drugs in his pocket while leading in intercessory prayers. A South African will rather stay back at home than to come to church and live a hypocritical life. So who is really joking with God?
I know how Nigerian internet love scamners sow seeds to prophets for god to make their victims fall into their scam.
Nigeria is not a godly nation, we are a religious nation. All our political leaders claim that it was God who put them there.
Nigerians should go and seek God without attaching their needs. Then we will know that we are truly a God loving nation. For now, we are just the most religious nation in Africa.
We are using God to get visas, cars, health, houses, marriage etc.

This is a nice piece.

cuedish:
Tithe or whatsoever money we give in the church is not in any way connected to our blessings....

Our God is a free giver....
He says : I WILL BLESS WHOM I WILL BLESS ...

let's say NO to manipulation.

TRUE, GOD IS A FREE GIVER. BUT HE CALLS ALL HIS CHILDREN TO A LIFE FREELY GIVING OF OURSELVES TOO.HE CALLS US TO A LIFE OF COVENENT. GIVE OF URSELF TO D MASTER. HE DEMANDS AND EXHORTS U TO GO AN EXTRA MILE BEYOND D OTHERS. PLS. U GO D EXTRA U GET D EXTRAORDINARY ALSO. 'HE WHO HONOURS ME I WILL HONOUR'.

It is amazing how people jump into issue like this, acting like they know it all but end up displaying their ignorance and shallow knowledge of the scriptures.


Except a corn of wheat falls to the ground and die it abides a lone: but if it dies it brings forth much fruits. John 12v24.



The word of God is a spirit, how do I expect a carnal mind to understand this?



People want the easy way out, I read on the front page where someone was quoting the bible saying "I will bless whom I will bless....." really?



The annoying thing is, if you check the personal life of those fighting against tithing and men of God generally, you will see how rotten their lives are spiritually.


I see the devil having fun with people's mind and I laugh.


My advise to Christians is that, we should each try to have a personal relationship with our maker, dine and wine with the Holy Spirit and see how the truth will be revealed to you.

You call your self a Christian and you are still struggling to understand the principles of tithing and giving generally. Then, you need more time with God.


May God help us, this is really an end time.


FYI, I am a delightful tither.

ehissi:


False. Even Oyedepo's ministry tithes to Adeboye's ministry.

Not only do Pastors tithe but ministries also tithe to other ministries.

Get rid of this your vain imaginations, lest the devil be using you to fight pastors without your knowledge.

**False. Even Oyedepo's ministry tithes to Adeboye's ministry.**

Adeboye in turn delivers it to God

first class mumu
.

FarahAideed:


The owner of that car is actually Pastor Okwonkwo of David Christian Centre so the guy u quoted is right

r u sure dat is Pastor K's car

tpapi:
r u sure dat is Pastor K's car

200 percent sure

DeepSight:
I think its apt I share here an experience I had several years ago which I posted on this forum. . .

.......

Yesterday I had a truly amazing experience in Church in a Lagos suburb.

What, you might wonder, is your ol' chap doing in Church on a sunday, given his antecedents? Well I cannot really comment on that now: save to very shamelessly note that given the pure gentleman that I am, it is against my upbringing to decline an invitation from a comely damsel, if she be comely enough, and wear high-heels of a certain height.

Now, I will not name the Church. I think there is no reason to name it: suffice to say that it is a rather new ministry with a very large building in a Lagos Suburb.

Before I go any further i think it is important for me to state very explicitly: I have of recent tendered an unreserved apology to such Christians on this forum as may have felt offended by my posts regarding certain Christian doctrines: I plead that no one mistakes this as a diatribe against Christianity of any sort: this is strictly and specifically about the antics of the Pastors at the Church that i visited: and I am certain, as we all are - that not all Pastors could be this way.

Now here was a truly terrible beast of a man: and he had a very clear mission about him - to which end he waged a sure war on the pulpit - a very frightening and dire one indeed.

From the moment he stepped up to the pulpit and commenced I just could not take my eyes off the man. He was absolutely riveting.

The Message

This was a man who knew his mission. O, you'd better believe that - he was not in any way schizophrenic: no split personality at all: he had ONE resolute and clear personality, one resolute and clear mission - to which he devoted his fervent and ultra-passionate energies on the pulpit.

Our man started off with the definition of who a true son is. Not one to be accused of tardiness of any form; he commenced by first making clear who the father was: he himself, given the anointing of God for that special role, was the father of all the members of the congregation - and they were all his children.

Having set the tone, our man plunged headlong into the essentials of "being a true son" to him.

True sons, he boomed in a loud imperious tone, must vigorously ensure that they bring their money to their father - himself. For which true son, he argued, would see his father neglected?

At this point, before proceeding the grand pastor gave a brief lecture on the awe with which he should be esteemed by the congregation. He stated explicitly that any member of the church who criticizes him is "B.A.S.T.A.R.D" and not a true son.

He went further to state that any member of the church who was in any place where he, the head pastor, was being criticized, owes a duty to slap the critic. This, he stated, is not un-christrian violence because Jesus after all, used whips on the stubborn. Our man insisted that it is only right and proper, that any member of the congregation who hears a person criticizing the pastor, should react by slapping such a person. He promised that the church will do everything to protect such a person. He defended this asking - which one of you will stand back if your biological father is insulted? IF you would not, then should you not also fight for me, your spiritual father? Only B.A.S.T.A.R.D.S would refuse to slap his critics, he said. He went further to state that no one should engage the thought as to whether or not the critic was right: that the slap should be delivered first and that the church will resolve any consequences of such slapping.

Now all of this was delivered at a frighteningly harsh pace: our man was literally screaming his head off: he roved frantically about the stage staring down people and demanding if they were true sons, and what they would so for him, their father.

The Core Message

Now the treatise on sonship was but brief: for our man spent the whole of his ensuing lecture of some three hours stressing vehemently that every member of the church must continuously bring their money to him, in order to advance the church and the work of God. I kid you not, this man was panting, and roaming the stage and shouting "BRING IT TO ME, BRING IT TO ME, I WANT YOUR MONEY, BRING IT TO ME! ! !"

I was dumbfounded.

He went on and on. He simply would not let up. He screeched at the congregation, repeatedly calling them, "stingy, wicked and decitful" and constantly shouting - "B.A.S.TARDS! THE B.A.S.TARDS HERE DON'T WANT TO BRING THEIR MONEY! BRING YOUR MONEY TO ME! ! !"

This shouting and terrorizing the audience went on and on and on - and the fellow had absolutely no gospel teaching throughout the three hour sermon save to continue to shout and impress on the people that those who refused to bring their money to him were B.A.S.TARDS.

The church building project, he emphasized throughout, must take precedence over all individual needs. Such was the importance of the project.

He then urged the "true sons" to name go and set up new churches everywhere across the country, but that such churches must remain branches of his church. He emphasized that St. Paul did not even see many congregations, and yet was their "master." He was very particular that any such person who started a new church and gave it a new name and did not place the new church under his authourity is " A B.A.S.TARD" and "damn wicked to be punished."


The Offering

At the end of his three hour diatribe, i was galled to note his words. He said, verbatim - "Before I go, let me collect my offering."

The ushers then began to collect tithes and offering, while be boomed down at the people saying that those who did not give are THEIVES, are stealing from God. He shouted - it is not your money! You have no right to keep it! Bastards! Thieves! BRING IT TO ME!"

"Why are you looking at me like that?"

Now i should note that the entire sermon was punctuated by something very peculiar. At various points he seemed uncomfortable at the way his message of abuse and enrichment was being received. Thus at several points during the sermon he would run down the steps and start shouting "WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT? ? ? WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT? ? ? YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I AM SAYING, ABI? ? ? STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT! ! !"

It was simply obvious that many people were befuddled as to his violent, insulting and demanding message and were staring at him in an odd fashion. This made him angry and uncomfortable . "WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT? ? ? STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT! ! !"

At some point he confided in the audience that his rent in the united states was about to expire and he had to find the money within the next one month.

After he descended the pulpit, a succession of three pastors followed, each demanding more money for the church building project, the church television launch, and others. The tone was very clear and strict: and small amounts were explicitly discouraged.

I was amazed that the pastors all spent the entire day demanding money and preached not a single word of the gospel.

After the service had ended, as the congregation dispersed, he went back to the pulpit and began to say - "Any personal gifts for me. . .i will accept personal gifts. . ."

Amazingly quite a number of people approached him with envelopes.

More than ever before I was taken aback by the entire service.

The reason I was so taken aback was that I have always presumed that many of these guys actually believe in their ministry as the work of God. When I saw what happened in that Church, I began to understand more clearly that some persons have perfected and mastered the art of manipulating forcefully mass psychology. And they could be in no doubt or illusion, regarding their purposes.


https://www.nairaland.com/modifypost?post=7011839&redirect=%2F538749%2Fmanipulating-mass-psychology-church-sunday%237011839

This post deserves a thread on its own. If u haven't created one, create it please.
The link appended to the bottom isn't working. I think it can only be used by u

Oluwapresley:
WHAT TRIGGERED THE MARTIN LUTHER REFORMATION?
Here is the story, and why I think the Church is back to where it was before the Martin Luther Reformation exactly 500 years ago.
1. Before 1517, everyone belonged to the Roman Catholic Church which was the official religion, with the Pope as the head. The Pope had the final say on all issues concerning religion.
2. Pope Leo X wanted to build a fanciful Church building called St. Peters Basilica in Rome. The building was going to cost him so much. Hence, he decided to raise money from the sale of indulgences from purgatory.
3. Purgatory was invented by the Catholic Pope during the Crusades in order to get more men into the army. The pope claimed he could buy souls back from hell. His soldiers believed him and the practice continued.
4.The manipulation of the people through the sale of indulgences from purgatory(Offering God money in order to get God's favor) infuriated Martin Luther. The same idea of indulgences and purgatory was why MANDATORY TITHES and offerings got established in the early Church. 'God gets excited at the sound of coins in the offering plate'.
5. On Oct. 31st, 1517, a Roman Catholic Monk named Martin Luther posted 95 Theses on the door of the Church claiming salvation was by faith alone, among others. He claimed the Pope had no power to forgive sins or collect indulgences from purgatory.
His 5 pillars were, 1) sola fide( faith alone), 2) sola scriptura (by scriptures alone), 3) solus Christus (through Christ alone), 4)sola gratia (by grace alone), 5)soli deo gloria (for God's glory alone)
6. The posting of the theses happened at the early beginnings of the invention of the print media, just like today's internet. Within weeks, Luther's theses was widespread all over Germany, and all over Europe within months.
7. Before that, nobody had challenged the authority of the Church or Pope and lived. The Church had killed all scientists, historians or anyone who had a contrary view to the Pope. Often burning them publicly or beheading them.
8. Hence, the posting of the Theses was like Martin Luther posting his own death notice.
Ever heard the story of David and Goliath? The Pope was Goliath, Martin Luther was not even a David, he was a worm. The Pope could crush him easily. Somehow, the Pope was not able to. He referred to Luther as a wild boar. Luther often referred to the Pope as a 'lustful dog'.
9. Martin Luther was summoned by the council of Church and State to recant his writings. He declared he wouldn't as he was prepared to die for what his conscience believed.
10. Meanwhile, he remained in the Roman Catholic Church as starting another form of Christianity was not his goal. Luther's mission was to reform the Roman Catholic Church.
11. The Pope declared Luther a non-grata, meaning whoever killed him was doing God a favor. His life was put at risk.
12. Martin Luther was then kidnapped by close friends and hidden in a castle. His physical form was disguised for fear that he would be killed. He had already become so popular in Europe through his writings.
13. While hidden away and in Isolation, he translated the entire Bible for the first time into German from Latin, giving everyone access to the Bible for the first time. From German, it was then translated into other languages. This officially put an end to the dark age, the age of gross illiteracy.
14. Before Luther's Bible, the Bible had only existed in Greek and Latin which only Priests had access to. You could be killed if found with a copy of the Bible. This gave the Priests so much power, similar to today's Priests and Pastors.
15. As more people read the Bible for themselves, revolts broke out all over Europe as people saw how the Church had taken advantage of them over many years. The Pope lost so much power and the Roman Catholic Church became irrelevant. Luther called out the Popes, Bishops, and princes without mincing words, often challenging them to public debates.
16. Because everyone now had the Bible, different sections began to break out of the Catholic Church every man claiming his own revelation. There were the Lutherans, Calvinists, Puritans, Unitarians, Anglicans, and many more. The differences between them were so slight and insignificant, and denominationalism was born. This revolt led to the killing of so many of the revolters by the Catholic Church.
17. Each of these denominations grew so much in power, became capitalists and began to practice in new forms and with new languages, exactly what the Catholic Church was doing that led to the break out of the reformation in the first place.
18. Denominationalism then became Capitalism. Churches became more about big and beautiful buildings, how much profit you can get from the people, selling cajoles to people in exchange for money in order to fund the lavish lifestyles.
19. 500 years after, we are back to where it all began. We are practicing that old form of Catholicism. The church now is about money and buildings, tithes and offerings.
20. Who shall write for us another 95 theses?
500 years of the Reformation. We are still bleeding...
Success O. Fakolade, MD
Oct. 2017
Pray for the Church!!!


And you know the worst part of everything?
When people pay their tithe, the pastor calls them out and prays for them with a specific tone; "God bless these ones that have given to you." The others that don't have to give, they are left to say amen to the prayers for others. And you say you are giving willingly? Nope, you are not!! You are giving to avoid being cursed cox the pastor makes you feel that not giving when others are giving carries a curse already... and he tries to buttress his point by praying for them specially.

I always ask; do you know how many people have lost loved ones because they had to choose between paying their tithe or paying their loved one's medical bills? Do you know how many marriages have been broken and how many people have become homeless cox they decided to choose between paying tithe and doing the needful? My God won't want that kind of dealings. He wants you to be happy; Not broken as a result of the loss of your loved ones, not homeless, not a divorcé. He wants a cheerful giver, not a giver under compulsion!!! But pastors have made you give under compulsion because they make you feel you are robbing God and as a result you would be cursed! Very wrong!!! Very Very Wrong!!! "No one taketh My life, I lay It down." So if you can't take God's life, how do you think you can rob God? Hahaha..

MARTIN LURTHER WAS AND IS STILL VERY RIGHT. BUT UR CONCLUSIONS IS VERY WRONG AND MISLEADING. PLS GO AND STUDY ON D SUBJECT OF TITHING IN UR BIBLE VERY WELL AND COME BACK HERE TO STATE UR FINDINGS,PLS. GOD CALLS US ALL TO A LIFE OF COVENANT WITH HIM. FROM GENESIS TO REVELATIONS. ITS NOT COMPETITIONS.HUMILITY AND SELFLESSNESS IN SERVICE. DIVINE OWNERSHIP IS KEY HERE.TITHE IS DIFFERENT FROM OFFERINGS AND GIFTS,ETC. HOW MUCH IS D TITHE.? PLS STUDY TO SHOW URSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD. DONT TEACH HERESY BUT BALANCED TRUTH ALWAYS. AM NOT FOR FLAMBOUYANCE AND OSTENTATIOUS LIFESTYLES. SHOWING LOVE AND MEETING NEEDS OF D NEEDY IS KEY LOVE LESSONS. IT IS ABOUT SERBICE TO HUMANITY.THANKS.

Hosea 4:6 says,
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.”

How I wish everyone could truly kneel down and pray to God the way I do. HE still listens and answers prayers. If you honestly seek HIM HE will show Himself in many ways than one. You don't need no sweet talker to obtain you by telling you the more you give to him the more you receive. HE looks at the heart and not the amount you give.
HE cannot be bribed or deceived by your heavy tithe even if that secures you a good ranking with your pastor not with God.

Even if it is one Kobo you have as long as your heart is true HE will be there for you.

Pointblank09:
PASTORS don't pay they only collect.

You need to go back to the bible to read the instructions o. The Levite did

Has tithing now the way to everlasting life? Tithe has leapfrogged preaching about the kingdom of God Almighty. Indeed one of the signs of the last days, men shall be lovers of money and pleasure and not lovers of God.

buddenlove:
Thank u. Just to add that the choir we have today in all the churches is a product of Protestantism, Particularly his branch called Calvinist. John Calvin was the one who introduced the choir in church's praise and worship.

There were choir in the old testament Bro, check your Bible.