₦airaland Forum

Fundamentalist:
Let me ask you a question, what is your criteria for what is right and wrong ?

What do you use as your basis for judging what is morally right and wrong?

Let's Start from there ?

A lot of things stand as my basis, but on this topic, this:

Forcing humans, against their will, to do what they don't want to do.

Now I'm not even concerned with pagans being killed anymore, the verse might be revealed in the course of war. What I'm more concerned about is why must they give charity, observe prayers before they can be freed of being killed?

nairanigger:
A lot of things stand as my basis, but on this topic, this:

Forcing humans, against their will, to do what they don't want to do.

Now I'm not even concerned with pagans being killed anymore, the verse might be revealed in the course of war. What I'm more concerned about is why must they give charity, observe prayers before they can be freed of being killed?

You haven't answered my question ?

Just answer , this is how I categorize what is right or wrong ?

nairanigger:
A lot of things stand as my basis, but on this topic, this:

Forcing humans, against their will, to do what they don't want to do.

Now I'm not even concerned with pagans being killed anymore, the verse might be revealed in the course of war. What I'm more concerned about is why must they give charity, observe prayers before they can be freed of being killed?

# I have asked you over and over: where in the verse have they been forced to accept Islam and then Salat, zakat etc?

* The aggressive and excessive Pagans should be fight till their evils are eradicated. In the course of fight, if one surrender and seek Muslim's protection, Qur'an says he should be protected, then Islam should be preach to him because he (they) are ignorant people. Those who maintain their peace with the Muslim, and do not cause fasad on the land should not be fight, Qur'an says.

Qur'an is crystal clear in its injunctions:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 256:

"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing."


# Also, establishment of Salat, fasting, zakat etc have been explain to you using several verses of the Qur'an that those practices are necessary for the rehabilitation of pagans.

AlBaqir:
Again the essence of Salat establishment, fasting, hajj etc is to refine whosoever believe in Allah and His Prophet. And what a better rehabilitating system for those kuffar!


Surah Al-Ankaboot, Verse 45:

Recite that which has been revealed to you of the Book and keep up prayer; surely prayer keeps (one) away from indecency and evil, and certainly the remembrance of Allah is the greatest, and Allah knows what you do.


Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 183:

O you who believe! fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard (against evil).

# There are verses about Hajj, Zakat, righteous deeds of the same genre too.



# Sura al-Araf: 30

"Some He guided, while others are committed to straying. They have taken the devils as their masters, instead of God, yet they believe that they are guided."


# The evident of this noble ayah is:

* Those that are to be fought were "committed to straying": they breached their agreement, continue their oppressive and aggressive actions. So, again why would you take the word of those people for truth?

* Majority of those who abide by the agreement accepted Islam at fightless, compel-less, bloodless conquering of Makkah in the 9th Hijrah.




# Obviously you did not get my analogy when I used boko haram as an example. For the safety of the society:

* You don't take the word of aggressive boko haram for truth. You hunt them down

* If they surrender, they are to be rehabilitated under the watchful eyes of NG over the years.

Those are rational things to do and not taking the word of those who broke their agreement, continue aggressions over the land and spilling innocent blood for no reason other than people do not follow them.

* The noble parents of Ammar Ibn Yassir (one of the greatest companions) were skinned alive and then beheaded by the Pagan, all because they refused to acknowledge the Lordship of those Pagan's idols. Ammar was spared by his Taqiyah (dissimulation). That is one incident out of many. Part of the agreement the Muslims signed with those evil and aggressive Pagans was that Muslims, their families and properties should be protected. Yet they continue their aggressive attack.


# Those who had taken Satan as patron can only get rehabilitation via the injunctions of Allah. I have given you part of Islamic rehabilitation system.




# Point out where I ever accepted @underline. You have stylishly evade all the questions I have asked you amongst whom was "what is the fate of those pagans who abide with the agreement, after the date expired?" Remember your assertion was that Qur'anic intention is to kill them all despite the fact that I pointed out to you that Qur'an says, "Muslims have no fight with them". Then, you ran away from another question which I asked saying, " from which ayah did you got such assertion that they are to be killed, all of them"?!

# @bold, absolutely, and unfortunately you seem pigheaded on your weak assertions that you failed to support with Qur'an, other than your thoughts which is even being exposed.

Lolz, I didn't run away bro. I just try as much as possible to avoid repetitions so we could just end this in no time.

On your first question, according to ayah 5 of Taubah, they are to be killed till they accept Islam

Same verse 5 answers your second question.

I don't know who ammar is, neither do I know who was skinned alive. I see your acceptance of those inhumane verses are due to your judgment on pagans from the so called Islamic history you have on your disposal. I accept that muslims were being oppressed and that prompted Allah to call for their(pagans) death by Muhammad's sword, can you at least accept that its wrong to stop killing these OPPRESSORS immediately they accepted ISLAM? You obviously won't.

At least its legal to kill a murderer in any part of the world but its definitely illegal to kill a non Muslim cos he's not Muslim.

AlBaqir:
# I have asked you over and over: where in the verse have they been forced to accept Islam and then Salat, zakat etc?

* The aggressive and excessive Pagans should be fight till their evils are eradicated. In the course of fight, if one surrender and seek Muslim's protection, Qur'an says he should be protected, then Islam should be preach to him because he (they) are ignorant people. Those who maintain their peace with the Muslim, and do not cause fasad on the land should not be fight, Qur'an says.

Qur'an is crystal clear in its injunctions:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 256:

"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing."


# Also, establishment of Salat, fasting, zakat etc have been explain to you using several verses of the Qur'an that those practices are necessary for the rehabilitation of pagans.

check verse 5 of surah 9, or better still:

9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.

nairanigger:
Lolz, I didn't run away bro. I just try as much as possible to avoid repetitions so we could just end this in no time.

On your first question, according to ayah 5 of Taubah, they are to be killed till they accept Islam

Same verse 5 answers your second question.

I don't know who ammar is, neither do I know who was skinned alive. I see your acceptance of those inhumane verses are due to your judgment on pagans from the so called Islamic history you have on your disposal. I accept that muslims were being oppressed and that prompted Allah to call for their(pagans) death by Muhammad's sword, can you at least accept that its wrong to stop killing these OPPRESSORS immediately they accepted ISLAM? You obviously won't.

At least its legal to kill a murderer in any part of the world but its definitely illegal to kill a non Muslim cos he's not Muslim.

# Your biggest problem has always been that you isolate verse 5 outside the Tafsir of other verses that envelope it. That's rather very unfortunate, and that's one huge injustice you've done to yourself.

I bid you farewell.

Oh finally. Thanks to AlBaqir though.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
ISLAM RULES ARE PERFECT AND SO MUCH CONSIDERATE AND COMPASSIONATE unless you do not understand those rules. .its easier to ask than to assume . . . . . . .A person claiming to be a muslim MUST FOLLOW EVERY ISLAM RULES and must be perfect in aqeedah issue . .whoever reject s0me part of islam law and accept s0me IS NOT A MUSLIM. A muslim can become a KAFIR(non believer)

Can you tell me reasons why Islamic rules are perfect or why I should take Islamic rules to be perfect?

I would like to know the perfection in Islamic rules.

tintingz:
Can you tell me reasons why Islamic rules are perfect or why I should take Islamic rules to be perfect?

I would like to know the perfection in Islamic rules.

GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND. .GO READ QURAN AND HADEETH MUSLIM AND BUKHARI . .Peace

ShaheedBinAliyu:
GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND. .GO READ QURAN AND HADEETH MUSLIM AND BUKHARI . .Peace

I've read the Quran and Hadiths, I don't find the rules perfect, so I would like to know how Islamic rules are perfect, give me reasons.

tintingz:
I've read the Quran and Hadiths, I don't find the rules perfect, so I would like to know how Islamic rules are perfect, give me reasons.

Are you a Muslim pls?

tintingz:
I've read the Quran and Hadiths, I don't find the rules perfect, so I would like to know how Islamic rules are perfect, give me reasons.

Thats entirely your problem if you do n0t find it perfect. . chiao

AlBaqir:
# Islamic doctrines is perfect, never by dogmatism but by intellectual reasoning. So, why would you disagree with it? Am afraid you get to know Islam from a wrong interpretation/understanding.


Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 36:

And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Apostle have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Apostle, he surely strays off a manifest straying.




# IT IS EVIL TO KILL A SOUL WITHOUT JUSTIFICATION

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 32 - 33:

"For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.


The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



# BEFRIENDING PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (JEWS AND CHRISTIAN)

As far as Islamic injunctions are concern, only the evil ones you do not have business with.

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 82:

Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.


# Islam even make the following injunctions:

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 5:

This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book (Jews and Christians) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book before you (are lawful for you); when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."


Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 2:

O ye who believe..., help one another in goodness and piety, and do not help one another in sin and aggression; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).

# In Islam, the injunction is to war (in defence) against those who wage war on you. Qur'an says:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 190:

"And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits."




Surah An-Nisa, Verse 3:

"And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course."

# First, there are conditions for polygamous marriage

# Second, Islam legislated polygamous marriage only to solve certain sociocultural problems. However, the fact that there are problems associated with polygamous marriage does not mean the injunction is wrong rather it is the "we" who have failed to practice it in accordance with the instruction of God.




# Disagreeing with a part of Qur'an is disagreeing with the entire Qur'an, and that is disbelief in God and His Prophet.

# Like I said earlier, you get to know Islam from very very wrong sources, weird interpretations and understanding.

bla bla bla.
Islam is a religion of war
check this link https://www.nairaland.com/4251883/islam-religion-war

ShaheedBinAliyu:
Thats entirely your problem if you do n0t find it perfect. . chiao

I guess it's relative.

You find it perfect, I don't find it perfect (relativity).

nairanigger:
Are you a Muslim pls?

I was.

tintingz:
I was.

You should be an atheist if you leave Islam, cos from my research, no religion on earth is in any way better than Islam.

I'll rather be an atheist or better still an agnostic of I'm not a Muslim. Islam is a religion of peace, you just need to understand her doctrine very well. That understanding is what I feel I'm lacking presently. No strings attached.

OnyeOGA:
bla bla bla.
Islam is a religion of war
check this link https://www.nairaland.com/4251883/islam-religion-war

I had to open your link and alhamdullilah, all your quotations were from hadith. I'm not surprised. Islam is not just a religion of war, its of peace and morality too. Get that to your brain bro.

Its not like everything about Islam is war, war and war, other things are there too. Don't be blind with your hatred on Islam. Appreciate Islam at some point biko, its not like Christianity is free from wars and killings too. Stop being a hater.

nairanigger:
I had to open your link and alhamdullilah, all your quotations were from hadith. I'm not surprised. Islam is not just a religion of war, its of peace and morality too. Get that to your brain bro.

Its not like everything about Islam is war, war and war, other things are there too. Don't be blind with your hatred on Islam. Appreciate Islam at some point biko, its not like Christianity is free from wars and killings too. Stop being a hater.

appreciate what in Islam
Bro, there's nothing there to appreciate.

nairanigger:
I had to open your link and alhamdullilah, all your quotations were from hadith. I'm not surprised. Islam is not just a religion of war, its of peace and morality too. Get that to your brain bro.

Its not like everything about Islam is war, war and war, other things are there too. Don't be blind with your hatred on Islam. Appreciate Islam at some point biko, its not like Christianity is free from wars and killings too. Stop being a hater.

Where exactly is your stand ?

OnyeOGA:

appreciate what in Islam
Bro, there's nothing there to appreciate.

Oh! sorry about that, I was referring to people that use their brains. Its a free world after all, you can choose not to appreciate Islam.

nairanigger:
You should be an atheist if you leave Islam, cos from my research, no religion on earth is in any way better than Islam.

I'll rather be an atheist or better still an agnostic of I'm not a Muslim. Islam is a religion of peace, you just need to understand her doctrine very well. That understanding is what I feel I'm lacking presently. No strings attached.

Sorry mister, Islam is no better than every other religions, if I'm to pick a religion, I will go for Buddhism or Jainism, these two religion are far peaceful than Islam.

The thing is that you can understand Islam if you're open minded, the problem you're having is accepting the babaric, archaic, mysogyny practices attached to the religion.

Empiree:
Where exactly is your stand ?

I'm a Muslim who's being disturbed about some of our doctrines. Muslim is just the right religion

nairanigger:
I'm a Muslim who's being disturbed about some of our doctrines. Muslim is just the right religion

Then you need to start from the start and stop wasting your time on what you comprehend not. Those verses you kept talking about are verses of war. I have debated that with christians here before and the guy had no problem with my argument.

You need to study history surrounding the wars, else you will end up making wrong judgement and or land yourself in another religion only to realize that, that's even worst.

Empiree:
Then you need to start from the start and stop wasting your time on what you comprehend not. Those verses you kept talking about are verses of war. I have debated that with christians here before and the guy had no problem with my argument.

You need to study history surrounding the wars, else you will end up making wrong judgement and or land yourself in another religion only to realize that, that's even worst.

Thanks.