orisa37:
Scholars are Theorists. They make the World go round but never really change anything.

Even scholars do not agree with him, tell him to name the scholars who says Jesus doesn't exist. All of what he posted is nothing new, and has been debunked by scholars even atheist scholars, yet his likes keep repeating thesame nonsense perhaps just for fun.

enjoy reading : Lee Strobel - The Case for the Real Jesus

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sf227stqv1bss0z/Lee%20Strobel%20-%20Case%20for%20the%20Real%20Jesus.pdf?dl=0

I got this impressive article of facts to share here.

The Qur’an provides numerous internal evidences that testify to the Biblical truth that Jesus is indeed the Son of God. The testimonies regarding Jesus in the Qur’an itself clearly show that he is more than a prophet.

One of the most important points of agreement between Islam and Christianity concerns the conception of
Jesus is the virgin birth.but the quran does not clearly state the reason of the virgin birth.

The Qur’an teaches that the virgin-birth of Jesus was simply a manifestation of God’s power Surah 3:47: “She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So it will be. Allah createth what HE Will. If he decree a thing, He saith unto it only: BE! And it is.”

hopefulLandlord:
A growing number of scholars are openly questioning or actively arguing against Jesus’ historicity

Religion is one of the most enduringly powerful forces on earth. Two of the most influential, both today and in the past, Christianity and Islam, believe that Jesus Christ played a pivotal role in both faiths.

Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin birth, was crucified and resurrected for the remission of sins. Muslims believe that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth brought forth by the command of Allah and became one of his most important (and subsequently revered) prophets. Muslims do not believe that Jesus was crucified but that another man died in his place.

Whether or not we believe in the existence and life of Christ as a matter of faith most people are prepared to accept that Jesus was a real and verifiable historical figure; that he was born, lived and died in Judea between around 4BC and 33AD. This has been repeated so many times that most people do not ever think to challenge it but should they? Did a man called Jesus, son of Mary (and adoptive son of Joseph) walk the paths of Judea or was he merely a figment of imagination? A group of stories and myths pulled together by a range of cynical individuals for a particular purpose?

If you are a Christian, of course, the existence of Christ is a matter of faith but should non-Christians believe in Jesus so readily? Here are my top 9 reasons to claim that Jesus never existed.

HOPEFULLANDlord Are you still shopping for young innocent readers to fool on Nairaland ?

Atheists will try to deny the existance of Jesus even though millions of Muslims can use their Koran to prove that Jesus is real.

This is overwhelming proof from an ancient holy book called the Holy Koran;

Surah 4:171: “Christ Jesus the son of Mary was an apostle
of God, and His Word, which he bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit
proceeding from him: so believe in God and His apostles.”

In Surah 4:171: Jesus is called, “His Word.”

And in Surah 3:45 the Qur’an states that Allah gave Mary a glad tidings “of a Word from Him.” In the original Arabic, the expression used here is “kalimatim-minhu.” It means kalmia (word), min (from), hu (him). It is of vital importance for Muslims to note that Jesus is the only Prophet who ever lived, who is called a Word from God.

Centuries before the Qur’an came into existence, this same title was given to Jesus in the Bible:

John 1:14: “And the Word became flesh and made is dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son who came
from the father, and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.”

Revelation 19:13: “…the name by which he is called is the Word of
God.”

@hopefullandlord,

The most stupid part of the Gospels was when the ascencion into Heaven!!! No spacecraft? No rocket? What was his "escape velocity" that he used to exit the Earth's orbit? So he was flying in space without a special helmet or astronaut suit? How did he breath? PURE RUBBISH!!!

Didn't bother reading your epistle. I would rather believe Muslim theologians, christian theologians, Greek, Jewish, roman and atheist theologians (gerd Ludemann) than a keyboard warrior by the name of HopefulLandlord who sits on his couch and investigate the life of Christ from a simple google search. NEXT!

This is hilarious but salient!

hahn:

If you are a Christian, you are going to the Muslim hell
If you are a Muslim, you are going to the Christian hell
See you in hell

Title of this thread is dishonest, almost no scholar believes he never existed.

Niflheim:
@hopefullandlord,

The most stupid part of the Gospels was when the ascencion into Heaven!!! No spacecraft? No rocket? What was his "escape velocity" that he used to exit the Earth's orbit? So he was flying in space without a special helmet or astronaut suit? How did he breath? PURE RUBBISH!!!

true, its all fiction that's been believed to be true for toooooo long

Richirich713:
Title of this thread is dishonest, almost no scholar believes he never existed.

Just like one would say almost no scientist disagree on the theory of evoulution or most people agree the world is round.

Why not bring in the facts they agree on for analysis against the OP and not population of people's sentiments.

4kings:

Just like one would say almost no scientist disagree on the theory of evoulution

But there are much more scientists who reject Neo-Darwinism than there are scholars who reject Jesus existence. Mythicism has only about ~2 scholars on the planet.

or most people agree the world is round.

there aren't scientists out there who think otherwise (I hope )

Why not bring in the facts they agree on for analysis against the OP and not population of people's sentiments.

I was responding to the title of the thread, it is misleading. Responding to copy and paste is also not my thing.

God said...
It is written...

These are the two wickedest lies ever uttered on earth.

People do not realise how absurd, how utterly stupid it is to worship a god that one cannot see.

According to Everett, the Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god, [8] AND THEY LOST INTEREST IN JESUS WHEN THEY DISCOVERED THAT EVERETT HAD NEVER SEEN HIM. They require evidence based on personal experience for every claim made. [5] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã

Just because man has the capacity to imagine the invincible does not mean that the invincible becomes God through the instrument of faith.

In any case the day this words were written: the Word became flesh and dwelled among us is the day God lost all rights to remain invincible.

Jesus as written in the Bible wanted nothing more than to live his own life, he guarded his life with fierce jealousy, he was ready to break even the law if it contravened his own impulse. The dictate of his own soul was his God. He lived his life, let me live mine too- his life cannot become a law for me for to do that is to violate my own soul and disobey my own God

Richirich713:


But there are much more scientists who reject Neo-Darwinism than there are scholars who reject Jesus existence. Mythicism has only about ~2 scholars on the planet.
there aren't scientists out there who think otherwise (I hope )

Where are you getting this stats from?
When answering also review the definition of scientists and scholars.

I was responding to the title of the thread, it is misleading.

The answer to the above will address this.

Responding to copy and paste is also not my thing.

Hmmm.

...[color=#990000][/color]HERESIES...

4kings:

Where are you getting this stats from?
When answering also review the definition of scientists and scholars.

From blogs, books and videos I have read and seen thru the years. Mythicism only has about 2~ historians with a decree that's relevant to the study of Jesus existence. Bart Ehrman for instance only finds Richard Carrier and Robert Price among scholars who support mythicism in his book Did Jesus Exist. Lots of other scholars have mentioned that virtually no scholar/historian denies Jesus existence.

With regard to evolution I take it we talking about biologists (or anything else relevant). In this case I've seen much more biologists, biochemists deny neo-darwanism compared to the number of historians denying Jesus existence. I hardly follow the evolution vs creationism debate but it wouldn't be hard to find biologists who deny darwinism. Where in the case of mythiscim all you will find is Carrier and Price, perhaps another one or two more.

The answer to the above will address this.
Hmmm.

The title is misleading regardless of whether we know the specifics, mythicism does have virtually no support by scholars. And it's not "growing" among scholars as the op says ( wat a lie), it's growing among layman atheists.

Richirich713:


From blogs, books and videos I have read and seen thru the years. Mythicism only has about 2~ historians with a decree that's relevant to the study of Jesus existence. Bart Ehrman for instance only finds Richard Carrier and Robert Price among scholars who support mythicism in his book Did Jesus Exist. Lots of other scholars have mentioned that virtually no scholar/historian denies Jesus existence.

With regard to evolution I take it we talking about biologists (or anything else relevant). In this case I've seen much more biologists, biochemists deny neo-darwanism compared to the number of historians denying Jesus existence. I hardly follow the evolution vs creationism debate but it wouldn't be hard to find biologists who deny darwinism. Where in the case of mythiscim all you will find is Carrier and Price, perhaps another one or two more.

You didnt answer the questions.
Who is a scholar: a learned or erudite person, especially one who has profound knowledge of a particular subject.

With this definition how is it possible for you to say that only 2 "scholar " denies Jesus existence on earth?

This is applies to the scientists also because i can tell you that if you check researchgate or google scholars for any peer reviewed journal against evolution in the past five years, you would see NONE, but you would find many talking about an aspect of evolution.
But i cant be unreasonable enough to draw conclusion with this that therefore no biologist disputes this(even if i doubt the number is that significant).

Also note that christian blogs that bring outdated arguments concerning evolution does not make them count as biologists(or even one that have profound knowledge about it).

The title is misleading regardless of whether we know the specifics, mythicism does have virtually no support by scholars. And it's not "growing" among scholars as the op says ( wat a lie), it's growing among layman atheists.

Surely you would review this statement with the points above.
Anyway, do you have a profound fact for Jesus existence that makes you so sure?

4kings:


You didnt answer the questions.
Who is a scholar: a learned or erudite person, especially one who has profound knowledge of a particular subject.

Already answered, it's a historian with a relevant degree, for instance a Richard Carrier has a PhD in ancient history. Someone like G. A. Wells has no such qualification, so doesn't deserve to be called scholar when it comes to ancient history.

With this definition how is it possible for you to say that only 2 "scholar " denies Jesus existence on earth?

Not two, approximately two. I know for certain that price and carrier are scholars, very odd but nevertheless they are qualified. There might be a few out there I haven't heard about. Seven is the highest claim I have seen (see pic, Im still looking for the blog post wer I got that image, for references).

This is applies to the scientists also because i can tell you that if you check researchgate or google scholars for any peer reviewed journal against evolution in the past five years, you would see NONE, but you would find many talking about an aspect of evolution.

While that's quite different, to be a qualified biologist only requires a degree, not published articles in secular peer reviewed journals in the last five years. Take for instance Dr. Nathaniel T. Jeanson , has a PhD from Harvard University in Cell and Developmental Biology, he rejects darwinism and has published peer-reviewed papers in secular journals in his field. Were those papers anti-darwinism, I don't know, but he is qualified.

But i cant be unreasonable enough to draw conclusion with this that therefore no biologist disputes this(even if i doubt the number is that significant).

Do u think that number is as low as the mythicists?

Also note that christian blogs that bring outdated arguments concerning evolution does not make them count as biologists(or even one that have profound knowledge about it).

Same as atheist bloggers who bring outdated arguments against Jesus existence don't count as historians or even have profound knowledge on the subject. They usually just recently watch zeitgeist

Surely you would review this statement with the points above.

As I said the specifics is irreverent, it is a fact that mythicism has almost no support by scholars. Even the mythicists will acknowledge that, whether there are 2,3 or 4 scholars I wouldn't say is a fact but I see reasons to believe there are very few.
This is what makes the title and op misleading. I can guarantee the op won't be able to name the "growing number" scholars he is referring to cuz they don't exist, mythicism is not growing among scholars, it has has been a fringe theory for quite some time and still is.

What would you think if someone titled a thread "Reasons Why Scientists Know Evolution is False" and the first sentence of the op was "A growing number of scientists are openly questioning or actively arguing against evolution."? Or better yet reasons why scientists know earth is flat.

I'm thinking of opening a thread like that.

Anyway, do you have a profound fact for Jesus existence that makes you so sure?

He has multiple attestation in early sources, historians Josephus and Tacitus also confirm his existence. This among other things has made me and virtually all experts on this subject certain he exists, in fact his crucifixion is one of the most certain historical facts of the ancient world.

Richirich713:

Already answered, it's a historian with a relevant degree, for instance a Richard Carrier has a PhD in ancient history. Someone like G. A. Wells has no such qualification, so doesn't deserve to be called scholar when it comes to ancient history.

With this explanation @bolded, people like Herodotus, Eusebius, Moses, even Henry Adams and co are disquaified as ''Scholars'', right?

But atleast you would agree with me that there are historians nonetheless
Anyways, let's scratch the ''scholars'' part, most catholic seminarians are taught history and philosophy and given degree, so there will also qualify for the title ''scholar'' with your definition.

Not two, approximately two. I know for certain that price and carrier are scholars, very odd but nevertheless they are qualified. There might be a few out there I haven't heard about. Seven is the highest claim I have seen (see pic, Im still looking for the blog post wer I got that image, for references).

According to your definition, this is alright.

While that's quite different, to be a qualified biologist only requires a degree, not published articles in secular peer reviewed journals in the last five years. Take for instance Dr. Nathaniel T. Jeanson , has a PhD from Harvard University in Cell and Developmental Biology, he rejects darwinism and has published peer-reviewed papers in secular journals in his field. Were those papers anti-darwinism, I don't know, but he is qualified.

This guy is a wonder.

He has multiple attestation in early sources, historians Josephus and Tacitus also confirm his existence. This among other things has made me and virtually all experts on this subject certain he exists, in fact his crucifixion is one of the most certain historical facts of the ancient world.

Now Josephus and Tacitus are historians and not scholars.
Define historian, if it's a person that studies(and write about) history, then there are many of them and possibly the source of the OP is also a historian. Though on different level of knowledge.

Can you also be clear on this ''multiple attestation in early sources''.
And stop joking around with Josephus and Tacitus.

As an atheist, I find it repulsive seeing some skeptics denying Jeebus historicity. Denying and rejecting evidence is the theists' trait.

It's true the Bible contains some legendary embellishment. But there was a small man behind the story. You said growing scholars know Jesus didn't exist? You're starting to sound like our moronic theists. The general consensus in the scholarly circle is 'Jesus was an historical figure.' The only guys that make silly arguments against Jesus' historicity are few mythicists with little credential. You quoted Bart Ehrman, it might interest you to know the same Bart admitted that the evidence for Jesus' historicity outweighs that of Pontius Pilate. The criteria used by Richard Carrier and his fellow mythicists like Robert Price will render any historical figure of antiquity nonexistent. I should also add there are authentic independent mention of Jesus.

Please let's stop making threads like this. Jesus existence proves nothing. He was a deeply flawed ignorant runty guy. There are many ways to show the fraudulent nature of Christianity other than spreading falsehoods. Cheers

I know Jesus never existed because his mother Mary is lucifer....it is just a mythological story..

4kings:




Anyway, do you have a profound fact for Jesus existence that makes you so sure?

Most people will never move to find answers themselves. They prefer to burden others with their slothfulness disguised
as seekers wanting free "profound facts". Great spiritual truths has never fallen into any ones lap. That is why a renowned Professor
got off his backside and spent millions of Niara to investigate if the Gospels be true.

Professor Ouweneel holds doctorates in biology (Utrecht), philosophy (Amsterdam) and theology (Bloemfontein, RSA).
Professor Ouweneel is a theology and philosophy professor at several colleges and theological faculties. He is the author of over 100 books. He lives in the Netherlands, where he was born.

Here is an extract from Professor Ouweneel’s experience at the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria ;

He says, "My daughter went there several times and was healed, and she gave me the message that T.B. Joshua was interested in seeing me, although she had not told him anything about me. So I went there twice, once for five days, and once for ten days , and I hope to go there again.
Professor Ouweneel says,”I was very much impressed by what I saw, heard and experienced there. Not only in seeing the miracles that happened and the sermons that were given, but particularly the spiritual experience in my own soul when I was there. That is something that everyone who doesn't go there in person will miss."

“I am satisfied as to the integrity of T.B. Joshua's ministry says Professor Ouweneel. I have no doubt about that. I asked him some difficult questions just to find out for myself about his personal honesty, and I have been satisfied as to that. Also I believe him to be thoroughly sound on all the basic doctrines of Christianity."

After Prof. Ouweneel wrote and published his book on the truth about SCOAN church Nigeria he was viciously attacked and mocked by his peers. He certainly never saw that coming.

STUPUDTHEISTS:
The general consensus in the scholarly circle is 'Jesus was an historical figure.'

The "Scholarly consensus" is actually misrepresented in a severe way!

Scholars are at best saying
"there was an itinerant apocalyptic preacher wandering around ancient Palestine who didn't perform any of the miracles of the Biblical Jesus, and who probably didn't say most of the things the Biblical Jesus said (if he said any of them at all)."
Basically it boils down to the level one reduces "Jesus" to from the "Jesus" of the BuyBull

It's like saying Superman was actually Clark Kent, who was an ordinary, mild-mannered reporter, so therefore must have been a real person. Because such people have existed and do exist.

If I were alive in 30-70AD I could easily write a story of a miracle-working preacher without the need to base it on an existing person, because such apocalyptic preachers were ten-a-penny. You could just take a detail or two from each one.

JESUS Christ never existed.


History books have his name everywhere.

He never existed, yet the Jews did not believe him.

Till today, they say that he is just a son of the carpenter.


Falsehood.....

My submission is this, JESUS IS LORD.



Nairaland is like the temptation of the devil.

It comes, you overcome and it leaves you alone.


Then after a while, it comes back again.


and the cycle continues until you EVENTUALLY FALL.


Topics that blaspheme Jesus and the Father come now and then.

You repel with explanations,

They go away.

And another brings it up, in another way,


And the cycle continues.


Read your Bible Children of God. Feed on the word of God,


and all his gimmicks will be nothing to you


To the children of God on this platform,

Pls pray Always, especially those of you who preach or teach men to repent on this platform.

I have a message for these category of people in a new thread I will open shortly.

Originakalokalo:



History books have his name everywhere.

Could you give 1 (one) single contemporary account of the life of Jesus?

hopefulLandlord:


Could you give 1 (one) single contemporary account of the life of Jesus?

Josephus. A Jewish historian.


Roman's history books.


The Quran. Written 600 years after JESUS'death.

The Bible itself.

Among others.


Jesus never existed? Think again.


I have seen him before.

I have done things in his name.


The Jewish refused to believe who never existed?


Lol.

Originakalokalo:



Josephus. A Jewish historian.


Roman's history books.


The Quran. Written 600 years after JESUS'death.

The Bible itself.

Among others.


Jesus never existed? Think again.


I have seen him before.

I have done things in his name.


The Jewish refused to believe who never existed?


Lol.

Oh, this is sad; did you read my post very well or you just ignored a vital part of it? read it again and tell me how this reply of yours relate to it

hopefulLandlord:


Oh, this is sad; did you read my post very well or you just ignored a vital part of it? read it again and tell me how this reply of yours relate to it

I am done with you.

Repent and be converted.

Originakalokalo:


I am done with you.
Repent and be converted.

the word you seemed to have missed is 'contemporary' - “living or occurring in the same period of time”.

This is a very mediocre topic and not one to even ponder about at all.

The person of Jesus Christ is part and parcel of Jewish and Israeli history. The Jews may just see him as a regular prophet but they have never for once denied his existence. He is of the house of David. Saying Jesus never existed is like saying Abraham, Isaac, Joseph and all the other biblical figures were fictional and that would be very laughable. To the Jews Judaism is not just a religion but also a part of their cultural heritage. Their entire existence revolves around those biblical figures of which Jesus Christ is the most famous.

So saying things like this is very laughable.

4kings:

Just like one would say almost no scientist disagree on the theory of evoulution or most people agree the world is round.

Why not bring in the facts they agree on for analysis against the OP and not population of people's sentiments.

The entire Jewish history
The bible
The Qur'an (written 600 years later)
Over 40 (cant remember the actual number) witnesses who saw him at the resurrection.
Historians
Scholars
Theologians

But No, let's believe a frustrated keyboard warrior with zero credibility. Even his fellow atheist in delusion just called his bluff

Omudia11:
The entire Jewish history
The bible
The Qur'an (written 600 years later)
Over 40 (cant remember the actual number) witnesses who saw him at the resurrection.
Historians
Scholars
Theologians

But No, let's believe a frustrated keyboard warrior with zero credibility. Even his fellow atheist in delusion just called his bluff

1. Jewish History? you've got to be kidding me, can you cite your sources?

2. Quran (written 600 years later), Nuff said

3. Over 40? Nah, 1 single person said 500 people saw him

4. Historians? You'd do good by citing those historians and let me show you how unreliable their accounts are

5. Scholars? same as above

6. Theologians, Seems legit

Would you help originalkalokalo out by mentioning just a single contemporary account of Jesus?

NB: We atheists welcome challenges and disagreements even from ourselves as we don't have a "Holy atheist spirit" that reveals truth to us BUT you Christians claim there's an invisible spirit that communicates with all Christians and reveals truth to you but all we see are disagreements between you lots

All these essays amount to What? Proof? Hahahaha


Note: There is no Jew or Gentile who denies the existence of Jesus Christ. Not even one. There's a video of jews on YouTube being asked about Christ and 100% of them acknowledged his prophethood because the person of Jesus Christ is deeply embedded in their history.

Yes Qur'an 100% supports this. Along with historians,
Theologians and people who actually matter.

Your opinion = invalid

hopefulLandlord:


1. Jewish History? you've got to be kidding me, can you cite your sources?

2. Quran (written 600 years later), Nuff said

3. Over 40? Nah, 1 single person said 500 people saw him

4. Historians? You'd do good by citing those historians and let me show you how unreliable their accounts are

5. Scholars? same as above

6. Theologians, Seems legit

Would you help originalkalokalo out by mentioning just a single contemporary account of Jesus?

NB: We atheists welcome challenges and disagreements even from ourselves as we don't have a "Holy atheist spirit" that reveals truth to us BUT you Christians claim there's an invisible spirit that communicates with all Christians and reveals truth to you but all we see are disagreements between you lots