₦airaland Forum

asuustrike2009:
No am not

So if you believe that much in deeper life preaching the truth, then why are you not a member?
Why recommend to me?

gentlegenius:
So if you believe that much in deeper life preaching the truth, then why are you not a member?
Why recommend to me?

I recommend them to you because I listen to some of their messages. Am not their member because I attend Anglican church but it doesn't stop me from listening to their messages.

walls01:
true, but common reasoning shows it goes down to the first. Where did your first parents come from

I don't know, but they will probably be born too..

Telling me they come from clay? Can't be true bro

gentlegenius:
I have been searching for such a genuine place for sometime now. Pls can you suggest one?

There are many around. You just have to look. I have attended the same church for 14yrs and haven't had a reason to leave.

asuustrike2009:
I recommend them to you because I listen to some of their messages. Am not their member because I attend Anglican church but it doesn't stop me from listening to their messages.

When seeking a good church, it's not just about their messages. I also have been listening to great and inspiring messages from some wise and eloquent men of God. But their messages alone is not enough to make me join their churches. Good and inspiring messages don't come from churches, it comes from certain pastors. I am sure there's a reason why you haven't left Anglican to join deeper life despite their inspiring messages. This means there's something more important about churches than just good messages. And I guess you didn't consider that while making your recommendation.

ImaIma1:
There are many around. You just have to look. I have attended the same church for 14yrs and haven't had a reason to leave.

Ima ima you haven't mentioned any church... I know there are a many good churches but just suggest one for me. Mbok.

Did any Pastor at any point in time put a gun to your head and goad you into parting with your stuff? What is wrong with "sorry Pastor, I am not led by the Spirit to give to that project?"

Membership of any Church does not guarantee Heaven to any. Your personal walk with God does.

If the spiritual means anything to you, go it alone with the Word!

gentlegenius:
Ima ima you haven't mentioned any church... I know there are a many good churches but just suggest one for me. Mbok.

Synagogue....

gentlegenius:
When seeking a good church, it's not just about their messages. I also have been listening to great and inspiring messages from some wise and eloquent men of God. But their messages alone is not enough to make me join their churches. Good and inspiring messages don't come from churches, it comes from certain pastors. I am sure there's a reason why you haven't left Anglican to join deeper life despite their inspiring messages. This means there's something more important about churches than just good messages. And I guess you didn't consider that while making your recommendation.

i had fellowship with them on different occasions. Their messages and standards hasn't change. Here are some of the things i found fascinating about them;
1. There preach holiness for without it you can see God.
2. They teach contentment, you should be content with what you have and not living extravagant life. The reason being is that all riches acquired on this earth will take no where when you leave this world
3. They teach righteousness. Living rightly with your fellow man and God
4. They teach salvation because it is very important in the christian faith. They are not cautious of monetary gain but how you soul will be saved. But that doesn't mean one can not give to the work of God because it is important as well
Above all they stick to their calling and teaches other messages to build your faith. i still Anglican church because my parish preaches similar thing too.Am not the type that stick to one church or doctrines. i miss with other denominations that is why you rarely see me pointing accusing finger on any church or pastor. i believe based on the word of God that salvation is personal hence we should all work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Christ is coming for the perfect church without stain not denomination

gentlegenius:
Ima ima you haven't mentioned any church... I know there are a many good churches but just suggest one for me. Mbok.

What church did you attend previously?

platinumphotos:
Continue lieing ....
So 10 years ago, a pastor rejected 100 naira offering?

You are terrible in mathematics and history.

IF YOUR CHURCH CANNOT CHANGE YOU; CHANGE YOUR CHURCH

nwakaibeya1:
John 5,30 I have the power to judge the living and the dead #hear it clearly and whoever feels threatened is free to challenge the world of justice #Ignorance, especially spiritual ignorance is People's greatest problem and even those who met JesusChrist-physically were also guilty of it and that is why they KILLED Jesus Christ &how about you that didnt meet Him and are ignorant What will I tell you that you Will agree and even if you are powerful and peep me and know I am saying the TRUTH will you agree?dont forget that many people seers also peep Jesus Christ then and knew he was genuine but they never followed him so can you be different? many people who think that they know JESUSCHRIST will perish because of pride,hence they are so used to their self acclaimed title and position that even if Jesuschrist is talking to them physically they will never listen and agree not to talk of the spiritual, where by they are ignorant spiritually and pretend ?I speak SPIRITUALLY and welcome spiritual investigations and challenges from whoso ever ,because Very many times when people hear a new thing they will never check Spiritualy before talking about what they hear and they forget what they claim to know about miracle or does it they don't know what real genuine Miracle means ?that is why we have come with the LIGHT, the MANTLE and UNBELIEVABLE POWER that be of he that made the SPIRITUAL laws and We say our truth and revelation is accept or perish ,be you whoever and we have no apologies and if you know is easy to say tell your congregation or followers that your truth and revelation of Jesus Christ are accept or perish and let's see if you are from Jesuschrist because that is the authority and language of Jesus Christ.We have come again but not to beg any human being .why not be wise and know that kingdom of Jesus Christ has comeback to revenge and judge people of the world or don't you know what blasphemy means anymore if I speak blasphemy ? Mathew 13,13-15

What is this one saying.Mr Osa isi !!

BushWickBill:
Bishop Mike Okonkwo once told his congregation that he doesn't want to see any denomination lower than N100 when they were taking an offering for the needy.
This was in 2005 or 6.

His wife told the congregation that she needed 10 people to pledge N250k to support their Kingdom Life World Conference. 2004.

My co-worker who doubles as a pastor was debating with me on tithing and I asked him where the storehouse in Mal 3:10 (that they always rush to quote when they want to dissuade you from thinking for yourself on this tithing issue) was located. His answer: Bank Account. I swear by my daughter that I kid you not. He actually said that.

Like Jesus ever burdened anyone to give or forcefully coerced people to give in the first place.

But no, these so called pastors of today with more insight into the word of God than the Word himself (Jesus) are telling us to do things that the Word never told us to. All to satisfy their own selfish desires and nothing more.

Me I have sworn off church till the find somewhere that resembled the modus operandi of the early church: breaking bread regularly, not having anyone in need and in one accord. Until then these churches are nothing more than glorified social centers where the haves show off and the have-nots aspire to be like the haves irrespective of how the haves had their success.

Seconded.

Olumaeme:
I don't know, but they will probably be born too..

Telling me they come from clay? Can't be true bro

we are not even talking of belief, we are talking of common sense. Weither u believe that paper is from wood or not definitely paper came from somewhere.
Whether clay or not man came from somewhere where is that? And have u ever ponder the term in the beginning as it applies to the universe?

ImaIma1:
What church did you attend previously?

Lutheran church

Whatever the sorry case in the church today, all Christians ought to belong to a church according to Heb 10:25. If you feel distressed where you are, you should ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit on which church to go.
But by all means, every bornagain needs to be committed to a church.

asuustrike2009:
i had fellowship with them on different occasions. Their messages and standards hasn't change. Here are some of the things i found fascinating about them;
1. There preach holiness for without it you can see God.
2. They teach contentment, you should be content with what you have and not living extravagant life. The reason being is that all riches acquired on this earth will take no where when you leave this world
3. They teach righteousness. Living rightly with your fellow man and God
4. They teach salvation because it is very important in the christian faith. They are not cautious of monetary gain but how you soul will be saved. But that doesn't mean one can not give to the work of God because it is important as well
Above all they stick to their calling and teaches other messages to build your faith. i still Anglican church because my parish preaches similar thing too.Am not the type that stick to one church or doctrines. i miss with other denominations that is why you rarely see me pointing accusing finger on any church or pastor. i believe based on the word of God that salvation is personal hence we should all work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Christ is coming for the perfect church without stain not denomination

I so much like the last statement you made here...
I think we should be more concerned with being part of that perfect church than being a member of a denomination.

gentlegenius:
I so much like the last statement you made here...
I think we should be more concerned with being part of that perfect church than being a member of a denomination.

Yes.Jesus is coming for the perfect church

being:
Whatever the sorry case in the church today, all Christians ought to belong to a church according to Heb 10:25. If you feel distressed where you are, you should ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit on which church to go.
But by all means, every bornagain needs to be committed to a church.

Oga pause right there.
"Assembly of the Brethren"is the key phrase in that verse you quoted.
Does what is going on in the so called churches resemble any kind of "assembly of the brethren"?
Places where cliques and associations are formed, usually based on how rich you are?
Places where "brethren"cheat and extort themselves all to get rich?
Places where gossiping, jealousy, backbiting and backstabbing exists?
Places where modesty and humility no longer exist but rather people come to show off?
Places where "brethren" cannot hold one another accountable including so called pastors?

Certainly that isn't the place to be when you want to grow your faith. No not these churches.

Park well oga. The Holy Spirit isn't someone you just call anyhow.

walls01:
we are not even talking of belief, we are talking of common sense. Weither u believe that paper is from wood or not definitely paper came from somewhere.
Whether clay or not man came from somewhere where is that? And have u ever ponder the term in the beginning as it applies to the universe?

Which common sense are you talking about? There are more than 50 stories about creation, yoruba claiming Oduduwa, Christians claiming God, various tribes and religion with their stories..

Let's even assume someone created the world, who created the person? If he was created by someone who created that someone, and so on..

If God can come out of nowhere without someone creating God as you want me to believe, then this world could come from nowhere too without nobody creating it too.
Think am!

gypsey:
All pastors, churches, imams, mosques muslims they are all crooks and peadophiles, i stopped going to church when the pastor tried to Arrange a marriage between me and a very ugly single mother with 2 children from Another man, the church told me that God said i must marry this ugly girl or... i said to them tell God to fuvk off! i am out! i am still here Alive today.

See vexing

PDPGuy:
See vexing

church is a scam!

Olumaeme:
Which common sense are you talking about? There are more than 50 stories about creation, yoruba claiming Oduduwa, Christians claiming God, various tribes and religion with their stories..

Let's even assume someone created the world, who created the person? If he was created by someone who created that someone, and so on..

If God can come out of nowhere without someone creating God as you want me to believe, then this world could come from nowhere too without nobody creating it too.
Think am!

this is not common sense. Common sense of man knows everything has a beginning, and animals and plant give rise to each other but that limit is broken when u think of the starting.
It is u that assume God came from nowhere, ur intellectual faculty is exceeded when it matters to the term in the beginning. From common sense there must be a beginning if the universe came from nowhere how did it form life. Remember life have a force when it lives and object it become lifeless. The thing atheists like u fail to understand is there are forces behond human comprehension. Just like an ape cannot understand a computer so also man cannot understand the term in the beginning. This belongs to God.

walls01:
this is not common sense. Common sense of man knows everything has a beginning, and animals and plant give rise to each other but that limit is broken when u think of the starting.
It is u that assume God came from nowhere, ur intellectual faculty is exceeded when it matters to the term in the beginning. From common sense there must be a beginning if the universe came from nowhere how did it form life. Remember life have a force when it lives and object it become lifeless. The thing atheists like u fail to understand is there are forces behond human comprehension. Just like an ape cannot understand a computer so also man cannot understand the term in the beginning. This belongs to God.

Where does God come from then?
What is the force behind God's creation and existence?
If we can't understand God and how he came to create three world , then we can't understand how the world came to existence.

We met this world here and no one knows how it came about but we are just assuming that it was created by someone without proof

Olumaeme:
Where does God come from then?
What is the force behind God's creation and existence?
If we can't understand God and how he came to create three world , then we can't understand how the world came to existence.

We met this world here and no one knows how it came about but we are just assuming that it was created by someone without proof

without proof? Is it not clear that the limit of man understanding has been exceeded when the term in the beginning is used, if a child is born and no body came forward to say am your mother that remain a mysery through out that person life for the person cannot tell how and where he came from.
Lets put it this way an ape can never produce a computer its brain is not programmed for that.

Science is a religion of fiction and denial, they are the worst religion on earth. They base beliefs on assumptions without proof like the evolution theory and denial first hand information on anything that is out of the ordinary. An from the Niger delta bullets bounce of my chest because of charms giving to me, but an atheist a science blinded individual will twist interprete and even deny my claims.

To make it easy which of the claims of science about life is remotely true?

walls01:
without proof? Is it not clear that the limit of man understanding has been exceeded when the term in the beginning is used, if a child is born and no body came forward to say am your mother that remain a mysery through out that person life for the person cannot tell how and where he came from.
Lets put it this way an ape can never produce a computer its brain is not programmed for that.

Science is a religion of fiction and denial, they are the worst religion on earth. They base beliefs on assumptions without proof like the evolution theory and denial first hand information on anything that is out of the ordinary. An from the Niger delta bullets bounce of my chest because of charms giving to me, but an atheist a science blinded individual will twist interprete and even deny my claims.

To make it easy which of the claims of science about life is remotely true?

I do not believe the science story, it's even more ridiculous..

The fact that I don't believe the biblical stories don't make me automatically believe that of science.
Because of let's even assume that the Ape turns to human, then how did the first ape come to life, if lizard turn to ape, how did the lizard come to life? So it can't be true.

I agree that there are somethings that are beyond human reasoning and knowledge, so therefore, human cannot tell me there's God because no human has seen God before, no human knew how the world come into existence.

If we even want to believe the biblical stories, there are many holes to pick

Let's take for example, we were made to understand that God created heaven and earth created a forbidden fruit that must not be eaten with consequences when he knew that Adam and eve will taste it eventually (because he knew you before you were formed).
Is that not outright wickedness, meaning that he created them to perish?

So Both biblical and scientific stories are unbelievable

shaykhalislaam:
Evidence for the validity of Islam

Praise be to Allah

The evidence for the validity of Islam and the truthfulness of the Prophethood of the Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is abundant and can hardly be enumerated. This evidence is sufficient to convince any wise and fair-minded person who is impartially and sincerely seeking the truth. We can sum up some of this proof as follows. 

1.     The evidence of sound human nature 

The call of Islam is in accordance with sound human nature, as is indicated by the words of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted (interpretation of the meaning):

“So set you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) your face towards the religion of pure Islamic Monotheism Hanifa (worship none but Allah Alone) Allah’s Fitrah (i.e. Allah’s Islamic Monotheism), with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalqillah (i.e. the Religion of Allah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not”

[ar-Room 30:30]. 

And the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “There is no child who is not born in a state of fitrah, then his parents make him a Jew or a Christian or a Magian, just as animals bring forth animals with their limbs intact, do you see any deformed one among them?”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (1358) and Muslim (2658). 

The words “animals bring forth animals with their limbs intact” mean: just as an animal is born with its limbs intact and free of defects; anything that happens to it of cuts to its ears and so on happens after it is born. 

Similarly, every human is born with an inherent inclination towards Islam, and any deviation from Islam is undoubtedly a departure from sound human nature. Therefore we never find anything in the teachings of Islam that is contrary to sound human nature. Rather all of its teachings on beliefs and practical matters are in accordance with sound human nature. As for religions and ideologies other than Islam, they include things that are contrary to sound human nature. This is something that is quite clear and apparent to anyone who reflects and ponders. 

2.     Rational evidence 

There are many Islamic texts that address reason and direct people to examine the rational proof and evidence, and call upon people of sound reasoning and mature thinking to examine the definitive evidence for the soundness of Islam. 

Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(This is) a Book (the Qur’an) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember”

[Saad 38:29]. 

Al-Qaadi ‘Iyaad said concerning the miraculous aspects of the Qur’an:

In it you will see that there is an explanation of a set of divine laws; it mentions the way of proof based on reason, presents arguments against the misguided followers of different religions and sects, and argues against them on the basis of strong and clear proof, using very easy and concise language. Those who pretend to be clever tried to come up with proof and evidence like that, but they were not able to do so.

End quote from ash-Shifa (1/390) 

The texts of the revelation do not contain anything that is impossible according to rational thinking or that would be rejected by reason, and the texts never presented an argument that contradicts reason or contradicts any analogy based on rational thinking. Rather the proponents of falsehood never presented any analogy to support their falsehood but the Qur’an refuted it on the basis of truth and an argument that is based on clear reason. 

Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And no example or similitude do they bring (to oppose or to find fault in you or in this Qur’an), but We reveal to you the truth (against that similitude or example), and the better explanation thereof”

[al-Furqaan 25:33].                            

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

Here Allah, may He be glorified, tells us that the disbelievers do not produce any rational argument to support their falsehood but He refutes it on the basis of truth, and presents arguments and evidence and examples that offer a better explanation thereof, are more convincing and give a clearer explanation of the truth than their argument and analogy.

End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (4/106) 

One of the examples of rational evidence in the Qur’an is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not then consider the Qur’an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction”

[an-Nisa’ 4:82]. 

In Tafseer al-Qurtubi it says:

There is no one who speaks a great deal but you will find a lot of contradiction in his words, either in the presentation and wording, or in the meaning, or you will find discrepancies, or there will be untruths. Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, sent down the Qur’an and instructed them to reflect on it, because they will not find in it any discrepancies in the presentation of ideas, or any flaws in what it promotes, or any contradiction, or any lies in what they are told of matters of the unseen and what they conceal.

End quote from al-Jaami‘ li Ahkaam al-Qur’an (5/290) 

Ibn Katheer said:

That is, if it were fabricated and made up, as the ignorant polytheists and hypocrites said to themselves, “they would surely have found therein much contradiction” that is, many flaws and discrepancies. In other words, this Book is free of discrepancies and contradictions, therefore it is from Allah.

End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-‘Azeem (1/802) 

3.     Miracles and signs of Prophethood 

Allah, may He be exalted, supported His noble Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with numerous miracles and tangible signs that pointed to the truthfulness of his Prophethood and the soundness of his message, such as the splitting of the moon for him, the glorification of Allah by food and pebbles in front of him, the springing forth of water from between his fingers, the increasing of food, and other miracles and signs that were seen and witnessed by huge numbers of people, and have been transmitted to us via saheeh isnaads (sound chains of narration) that reach the level of tawaatur. This gives rise to certainty. 

An example of that is that which is narrated in a saheeh report from ‘Abdullah ibn Mas‘ood, that he said: We were with the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) on a journey and our supply of water ran low. He said: “Bring me a little leftover water.” So they brought a vessel in which there was a little water. He put his hand in the vessel, then said: “Come to a blessed, purifying water; and the blessing is from Allah.” And I saw the water springing from between the fingers of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). And we used to hear the food glorifying Allah as it was being eaten. 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3579) 

4.     Prophecies 

What is meant by prophecies here is what the revelation foretold of matters and events that would happen in the future, whether that was during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) or after his death. 

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) never foretold anything that would happen in the future, but it would happen exactly as he foretold. This indicates that Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, had revealed and disclosed to him some matters of unseen knowledge that could not be attained except by means of revelation. 

One example of that is the report narrated by Abu Hurayrah, that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Hour will not begin until a fire emerges in the land of the Hijaz which will illuminate the necks of the camels in Busra.” 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (7118) and Muslim (2902). 

And it happened exactly as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) had foretold, in 654 AH – approximately 644 years after his death. This was mentioned by historians, including al-‘Allaamah Abu Shaamah al-Maqdisi, in his book Dhayl ar-Rawdatayn. He was one of the scholars who lived at the time of this historical incident. It was also mentioned by al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer in al-Bidaayah wa’n-Nihaayah (13/219), where he said: Then the year 654 AH began, in which there appeared fire in the land of the Hijaz by which the necks of the camels in Busra were illuminated, as it says in the agreed-upon hadith. Shaykh al-‘Allaamah al-Haafiz Shihaab ad-Deen Abu Shaamah al-Maqdisi spoke at length about that in his adh-Dhayl wa Sharhuhu, based on many letters that came to Damascus from the Hijaz, describing that fire that had been witnessed and seen, and how it emerged, and the story thereof. 

To sum up what Abu Shaamah said:

Letters came to Damascus from the Prophet’s City – may the best of blessings and peace be upon its inhabitant – speaking of the emergence of a fire in their land on 5th Jumaada al-Aakhirah this year. The letters were written on 5th Rajab, when the fire was still burning, and they reached us on 10th Sha‘baan. Then he said: In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. At the beginning of Sha‘baan 654 AH, letters came to the city of Damascus from the city of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) describing a significant event that occurred there, in which there was confirmation of the hadith of Abu Hurayrah in as-Saheehayn, who said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Hour will not begin until a fire emerges in the land of the Hijaz which will illuminate the necks of the camels in Busra.” Someone whom I trust from among those who saw it told me that he heard that in Tayma’ letters had been written by its light. 

He said: We were in our houses during those nights, and in the house of each one of us it was as if there was a lamp, but it had no heat and did not burn, despite its greatness; rather it was one of the signs of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. End quote.

Which Allah? The one that tell you to kill Christians?
Islam is fake

Olumaeme:
I do not believe the science story, it's even more ridiculous..

The fact that I don't believe the biblical stories don't make me automatically believe that of science.
Because of let's even assume that the Ape turns to human, then how did the first ape come to life, if lizard turn to ape, how did the lizard come to life? So it can't be true.

I agree that there are somethings that are beyond human reasoning and knowledge, so therefore, human cannot tell me there's God because no human has seen God before, no human knew how the world come into existence.

If we even want to believe the biblical stories, there are many holes to pick

Let's take for example, we were made to understand that God created heaven and earth created a forbidden fruit that must not be eaten with consequences when he knew that Adam and eve will taste it eventually (because he knew you before you were formed).
Is that not outright wickedness, meaning that he created them to perish?

So Both biblical and scientific stories are unbelievable

you have strong points but you are using human reasoning for spiritual matter. As you go deep into the bible you discover how God do things.
of a truth there is another beings the spirit beings. This obey different laws from us. You must have heard different strange Stories from cultist, native doctors and gods goddess. This beings exist but we form ignorant about them.
Let me tell u a little story when the communal war was tense in warri, father took us to herbalist for charm. A razor was used to cut our Chest and a black substance was rubbed on it. Believe me when we where shot at bullets bounce of our body although it is very painful. The spiritual entity manipulates things different from us.
Am not guessing i know there is God, he is a mysterious being

walls01:
you have strong points but you are using human reasoning for spiritual matter.
As you go deep into the bible you discover how God do things.
of a truth there is another beings the spirit beings. This obey different laws from us.
You must have heard different strange Stories from cultist, native doctors and gods goddess.
This beings exist but we form ignorant about them.
Let me tell u a little story
when the communal war was tense in warri, father took us to herbalist for charm.
A razor was used to cut our Chest and a black substance was rubbed on it.
Believe me when we where shot at
bullets bounce of our body although it is very painful
The spiritual entity manipulates things different from us.
Am not guessing i know there is God, he is a mysterious being

[img]https://s1/images/muttDuckEyed.jpg[/img]

efepro:
Any pastor who collects tithe, first fruit and ask u to sow your possession is not called by God.

That's not true. Giving to the work of God through tithes and offerings is very important. Yahweh doesn't joke with it. His servants too are not exempted from tithing and offerings