₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
Per the bolded...

If an atheist can believe in the supernatural...why can't they open their minds to the possibility that there's a Creator (directly/indirectly) responsible for that?

In all honesty, I thought atheists are limited to what they can see and feel, thus doubting the existence of the Eternal Creator...

It seems the theists may not be delusional for believing in the existence of God and in the supernatural as well...

budaatum:
Thank you. I believe I showed my objections to your main premises already, but instead of elaborating you chose to insult my intelligence! 

What's funny is that you fling at one, words that may be applied to yourself. Except if I do apply them to you it can only be as a ruse to avoid seeing my very own error and thinking no evidence is required for my axiomatic statements, because, they are, self evident!

Anyone with an ounce of sense would just about turn around and claim "it is an axiom, that axioms must have been found to be valid for them to be axioms in the first place"! Or else buda could claim "buda has two heads", is an axiom", and since axioms need not be tested nor proven, it is indeed therefore, an axiomatic truth that, "buda has two heads", and by nature of axioms, it is a true and valid statement! Oh, and since we need not test axioms, lets not bother counting how many heads buda has, the axiom states, two, so buda has two heads!

Oh, come on, of course I am not being circularly ridiculous and obtuse!

But here's the funnier thing. Since axioms require no evidence or proof, as you believe, it is therefore acceptable for you to assert, as an axiom, that, "‎science evidence rests on faith", and not provide evidence for the validity of your statement. For since you believe axioms must be accepted as valid truths that can not be proved anyway, you do not therefore have to provide evidence, and I should accept it with by faith.

No, surely not obtuse and ridiculously circular!

‎Any atheist would see you using the god people logic of, "It is true because the Bible says so". But since atheists are, well, who listens to atheists, right!‎

I post here definition‎s of "hypothesis". Not so much for you, but for others whom it may concern.
‎
‎hypothesis‎ [hahy-poth-uh-sis, hi-]
noun, plural hy·poth·e·ses [hahy-poth-uh-seez, hi-] /haɪˈpɒθ əˌsiz, hɪ-/.
a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.
a proposition assumed as a premise in an argument.‎

‎A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method‎ requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.[1]‎

I propose that your statement, "‎science evidence rests on faith", is not an axiom, by any sense. It is at best, "a hypothesis". At the least, that is what it appears to be to me, and I have treated it as one by asking you to provide evidence to support its validity.

Thanks for the conversation. I would have liked to ask you to dump the, "you, buda, an atheist, is a fool" innuendos, but I guess its par for the course with you, and at the moment you do not see yourself doing it. I'll pray though.‎ I know, someday, your eye will open. (That is my hypothesis. It is not a valid theory until I test and prove it!)

butterflyl1on:
[

LMAO you are actually the one not thinking things through and spouting crap everywhere. THE UNIVERSE IS SCIENTIFICALLY VERIFIABLE BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON PHYSICAL OBSERVATION BASED ON AVAILABLE SCIENTIFIC PARAMETERS. is God physical or spiritual?

Regarding the pseudoscience you are spouting about the possibility of other universes existed is simply you trying to justify your error with unscientific talk. Yet you asked me "are we still talking about science "? You are the one being unscientific yet trying to claim I am the one. Please stop being deliberately ignorant by force. Science FICTION is not science.

You just made it again even on this comment. Look up.

This is why I said no human mind can analyse NOTHING. it's a stranger to our imagination and reasoning because we are designed to focus on SOMETHING.

Now you are lying. Here was your comment





When you said mindless things can be teleological it showed you were actually defending your position and not trying to show that what is said was "absurd and ridiculous ".

I think you need to proofread tour comments before posting them next time.

The universe is mindless yet purpose driven (and I made it clear that someone or something is DRIVING this purpose) outside the control of the universe. The universe is simply playing out a script. Tell me you still do not understand.

butterflyl1on:
[s]It's obvious you are not out to learn and simply wish to insult at every turn even when all you are saying deserve same derogatory responses from me I refrained from offering them.

I think we are done here.

Knowledge or Intelligence isn't based on how many cuss words people know. It is based on how much their quest for knowledge and it's acceptance has developed their reasoning that only intelligence is expressed in clear terms to all who wish to hear.

Have a great day.[/s]

OkaiCorne:
I raised a point on my previous post on this thread. Ask yourself this question...if certain people are into dubious and evil things and later paint themselves as miracle working "Pastors"...

Isn't there a possibility that people are also into dubious and evil things...but hide under the cloak of atheism to carry on their plans?

The meaning of the word "atheism in your post is so contradictory to your point

Don't speak for all atheists... rather, speak for yourself... you know yourself better than anyone will... but you can hardly know the intentions of others.... unless you're a mind reader...

OkCornel:
Per the bolded...perhaps, the universe is the subset of the multiverse (which is infinite).

The Universe that resulted from the big bang as its starting point...(that's if the big bang theory is still accepted as the origin of the Universe) therefore tells you that the Universe was created...either by accident (which I don't believe) OR by a program (which we cannot fully grasp and understand)

hopefulLandlord:
You should check out Kingebukasblog thread on the explanations you seek

for instance There are atheists in Confucianism who do ancestral spirit worship. There are atheists in Wicca religion which is witchcraft. There are atheists in Raelism too so there's really no such thing as "Hiding under atheism while being in occultism"

purem:
The meaning of the word "atheism in your post is so contradictory to your point

It is obvious that people indulge in a nefarious and deleterious ways of getting what they need but saying atheists ridicule men of God in alliance with the above is absurd until you present a link

OkCornel:
I'll do so...

But I'm a bit confused here though... if atheists believe in the supernatural...then what makes them atheists?

Because...I was under the impression they don't even believe in the supernatural...talk less of considering the possibility that there's a Supernatural being/consciousness at the tip of the pyramid (which I personally refer to as the Eternal Creator)

Or is it that atheists just do not believe a Creator exists? or a Creator exists...but is not the God of religion?

I still don't get that bit...

Either ways...just as there is good...there's also evil. Just as there are good people, there are also evil people and I believe this also applies to personalities in the Supernatural realm...

You get to know which one is which...just as you judge a tree by the type and quality of the fruit it bears....

hopefulLandlord:
I've noticed some Christians here that throw insults and jibes at their opponents usually cower when the opponent gives it (back) to them hot and unrelenting

They want to dish it out but they don't want to take it. I'm not like I'm supporting throwing insults at each other, just stating an observation

OkCornel:
Let's be unbiased and neutral on this matter...there are threads you go to...and atheists throw around needless and unprovoked insults...and I can tell you I've been a victim of that...I also try my best to respond in a civil manner...especially after my encounter with Akin1212 who happens to be an atheist but a friend to me now (online friend o)...

Any theist or atheist who cannot pass across their points without insults are not mature. That's my take on the matter...

hopefulLandlord:
Don't generalise please, I chose my words very well, I said "There are atheists"


I once gave an explanation on another thread and I'll paste it here, although I'm not one of those atheists that accept supernatural so you need to talk to those atheists and find out why they accept the supernatural and not imaginary god but my hypothesis goes thus



@sonofthunder, just for educative purpose I'll answer the question why an atheist can believe in the supernatural while not believing in god (who is claimed to be supernatural)

The logic of people asking the question goes like this

P1 atheist doesn't believe there is a god

P2 An atheist can still believe in the supernatural

P3 God is supernatural

P4; P2+P3 means an atheist that believes in supernatural should also believe god exists

C An atheist that believes in supernatural but doesn't believe in a god is a joker

while it looks sensible and watertight (although P3 is a claim that still needs to be supported as one can replace "god" with Bigfoot or Unicorn or dragon), we nevertheless see a modal fallacy committed at P4, that one believes in a particular realm's existence doesn't automatically mean one should accept any claim based on that realm, let me use an example to buttress that point

Sonofthunder: There was a ship that sank on 15 April 1912, this ship was called "Titanic" and that was where a poor man called Jack Dawson sacrificed his life for rich girl Rose DeWitt Bukater out of love

sonofthunder's listener: I don't think any of that happened

You then show him some proof of the ship, maybe you flew him and used submarine to get to the location of the ship and the ship actually does fit the description of what you told the listener or whatever you did was enough to convince him Titanic did sank
you guys get back on dry land and he says "while I'm convinced a big ship did sank and it looked as aged as a century old ship both in design and decay, I still don't believe jack and rose part is real"

You'd agree that accepting the Titanic did sank doesn't automatically mean any story told about it should also be taken at face value

also if I claim to have £1B cash in my house, you can believe I have a house after "proving" that to you while still doubting the "£1B cash" part

in the same vein, that a Nigerian doubts spiderman is real doesn't mean one just shows him New York and expects New York to be proof of spiderman to him all because Spiderman is said to live in New York

that someone accepts England is real doesn't mean he should also accept Hogwarts is real

One can still believe Gotham City is real and Batman is not and vice versa

one can accept a character called Jesus existed without accepting he's son of god

I hope I've been able to explain well and do feel free to ask any question

OkCornel:
When I read the first few lines to this post...I didn't feel the need to read to the end since you have clarified a lot in there...

There are atheists who believe in the Supernatural and atheists who do not...well I guess it comes down to what one chooses to believe in either based on personal experiences or placing a degree of trust in the experience of others...

Hence, the error in generalizing (just like I did earlier)...I guess it's safer to assess everyone on a case by case basis before one concludes if this person is of a sound mind or delusional...instead of atheists quickly dismissing theists as delusional and vice-versa...

It's all good bro... cheers

hopefulLandlord:
Don't get me wrong cuz I chose my words carefully, as I've almost always done, I'm not being biased here

I'm not supporting insults and if I post the insults I receive from theists/Christians it'll fit pages upon pages. if you even search for my monicker you'll see I've received quite a few today alone but you'd be hard pressed to see me insult those I'm talking to

However I'm just stating an observation that "some" Christians here that usually throw insults cower whenever they face someone that goes toe to toe with them at it. They want to dish it but do not want to take it

hopefulLandlord:
Don't get me wrong cuz I chose my words carefully, as I've almost always done, I'm not being biased here
I'm not supporting insults
and if I post the insults I receive from theists/Christians it'll fit pages upon pages.

if you even search for my monicker you'll see I've received quite a few today alone but you'd be find it hard to see me insult those I'm talking to
However I'm just stating an observation that "some" Christians here that usually throw insults cower whenever they face someone that goes toe to toe with them at it.
They want to dish it but do not want to take it

OkCornel:
I'm laughing so hard at the bolded...
It's well... unless we all realize that we are all human beings first...before being divided along the lines of theism and atheism...the better for all of us...

I have hardly come across anyone who says no to true, sincere and sacrificial love... I'm just looking forward to a day where everyone who is open minded will sit at the same table and tell themselves the bitter truth without exchanging needless insults...

Where we all love ourselves by holding dearly to the things we have in common...while we deal with our differences amicably...

For example...irrespective of the fact you are an atheist...see us holding a meaningful conversation here...for goodness sake, is this not possible in the majority if not entirety of nairaland? Honestly...I am tired of logging online to see unprintable insults flying up and down on a popular platform like this...

We are all bothered about the afterlife...when the problems of the current life is not even sorted out. We are all bothered about who created this world...when nothing is done about those destroying it...

Just tiring mehn...

MuttleyLaff:
https://gifyu.com/images/steadylaugh.gif
Makes two of us laughing

MuttleyLaff:
https://gifyu.com/images/steadylaugh.gif
Makes two of us laughing

butterflyl1on:
[img]https://s1/images/duckEyed.jpg[/img]

purem:
The power of imagination is that it's can take you to a world that never existed

There is nothing could be more absurd than to imagine a world where atheists are casting aspersions on the so-called man of the most high just to get a reputation on an imaginary ocultic realm or whatever you are referring to

But there's alots of our so-called pastors who are into a dubious and evildous way of getting famous.

http://www.nigerianmonitor.com/shocking-confessions-of-a-lagos-pastori-am-a-member-of-ogboni-confraternity-see-photo/

OLAADEGBU:
You mean this one?

sonofluc1fer:
Very Christian post.


It's typical.. who isn't with you is a satanist, murderer, liar, thief, demon, serpent and snake. Your Christianity gives you this conviction. This is the 'belief' you sell on this board,your TRUTH. Jesus is proud of you, Christian.


Anyways, if he weren't long dead,he'd have shown you a better example. Or maybe that meme will be more efficient. I hope so.


Paedos can quote me.

ScienceWatch:
Your response to Emmanystone proves that you have zero knowledge about the superior powers of the spirit world nor do you understand Islam. True Muslims have deep reverence and respect for Jesus, He is permanently written into their holy doctrines.

If only one honest cultist will come here to explain how afraid they are of the name Jesus and why they get more dark power when they curse Jesus.

I have witnessed too many proud Atheists weep and finally embrace Jesus. I wont say more than this.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/muttDuckEyed.jpg[/img]
What? ROTBL
Is it your laff?
Kikikiki ki ki ki

Emmanystone:
The only reason he will open his mouth to say stupid is because he knows i don't know how to dig up old threads.

The Thread was How I became a Satanist, by Melin

Melin is no loner using that moniker, he now uses Demigod666. If any old memeber can get up that thread, it's all there.

Emmanystone:
The only reason he will open his mouth to say stupid is because he knows i don't know how to dig up old threads.

The Thread was How I became a Satanist, by Melin

Melin is no loner using that moniker, he now uses Demigod666. If any old memeber can get up that thread, it's all there.

Emmanystone:
I thought He never existed? Now He is dead? Pls make up your mind. which is it? He doesn't exist or He is long dead?

Emmanystone:
My little sister is growing up. Make una no spoil my sister o. Na dis generation i use get hope.

When i came in newly to NL, i was almost crying every day. Then i ignorantly allowed them to rule me by always making me angry and fighting with words i never imagined i could speak out. Gradually, i overcame that.
Now, i just laugh and pass. When we are done here, satan shall receive his Just Recompense of reward.

bennyann:
But I've noticed when the tables are turned, attitudes get swapped also.

Emmanystone:
The only reason he will open his mouth to say stupid is because he knows i don't know how to dig up old threads.

The Thread was How I became a Satanist, by Melin

Melin is no loner using that moniker, he now uses Demigod666. If any old memeber can get up that thread, it's all there.

OkCornel:
I'm laughing so hard at the bolded...

It's well... unless we all realize that we are all human beings (in need of true love) first...before being divided along the lines of theism and atheism...the better for all of us...

I have hardly come across anyone who says no to true, sincere and sacrificial love... I'm just looking forward to a day where everyone who is open minded will sit at the same table and tell themselves the bitter truth without exchanging needless insults...

Where we all love ourselves by holding dearly to the things we have in common...while we deal with our differences amicably...

For example...irrespective of the fact you are an atheist...see us holding a meaningful conversation without exchanging insults...for goodness sake, is this not possible in the majority if not entirety of nairaland? Or is it too much to ask for?

Honestly...I am tired of logging online to see unprintable insults flying up and down on a popular platform like this...

We are all bothered about the afterlife...when the problems of the current life is not even sorted out. We are all bothered about who created this world...when nothing is done about those destroying it...

Just tiring mehn...

sonofluc1fer:
wee you keep kwayet..

bennyann:
Na so. Lie say you no feel am