NiyiOmoIyunade:
These are great results KieKie

The question you seem to be so cleverly dodging is what is the exact size of your PV array that is very similar to @Durodee's? 1.5kw? or 1.6kw? or 1.8kw? or 2.4kw? that routinely generates 8.9kwh daily yield ?

If you have a 1.53kw array like @Durodee then we are looking at a superlative 6times PV array size daily yield which is superior even to the best known routine results from high sun intensity and long solar days areas like Australia.

I am asking you to tell us the exact size of your PV array not to throw shade but rather so we can put the yield results in perspective and any newbies can set realistic expectations.

If you are daily generating 6 times your array size on a regular basis then we all need to come learn at your feet and pick up pro tips and tricks to use in our own installs

Oga Niyi,
Good morning , I hail ooo ! All this your long thesis sef ... All I said was simplified , you have been to my place and I have also been to your crib and I must say that in all solar calculations we have losses we must contend with ! Question you asked and expecting raw figures has already been answered by Oga George D few pages ago when he detailed about "Oversizing your PV array" against rainy days ceteris paribus & that was a major reason why he gets charge current even when his panels are dusty ! Juo also gave you some tweaks which most will say its unethical to load an mppt above its required wattage . we must not type about personal experiment or tweaks which worked for us here as it might not work for Mr B due to factors surrounding his mppt brand etc ...
Juo has also mentioned it in past but most will always argue its wrong but i just smile ... I discuss better with most who engage me in qualitative chats about their PV yield . Richmond will also tell you that "its most of us day to day business and we feed our family on this" ..
In summary, I replied my total PV array as MAX 1600w "loss inclusive" as I have always been a 24v fan like Oga Durodee and utilise my panels to peak ! I get 50-62a cc always and most sceptic pals will still tell you that your mppt might blow up on the short run due to operating at max , over heating et al but mine smiles daily at max .. Cheer's

Na real thesis . . . hehe I have actually done x5 my solar array on numerous occassions..

if i had turned on the deep freezers earlier (say around 9am - 10am; instead of the programmed 12pm) ... and/or probably discharged the

batteries a lil' more; i am very sure I would have done x6+

Dat one na piece of cake !!!

Biko let it not be said that I am trying to rain on anybody's parade.

The array I remember he had was a 2.4Kw array which I agree can easily do 1600w on a good day after losses and other inefficiencies are factored in and in this oversize PV array scenario, it would be the CC that is limiting output as the pictures appear to prove - and this helps put things in perspective.

On your average day with average conditions and keeping many factors constant, an array can routinely generate 3 to 4 times its nameplate rating in an average installation and 4 to 5 times nameplate rating in a very good installation.

Any array that routinely does 6+ times the nameplate on a daily basis is a superlative install by all standards

makavele:
Na real thesis . . . hehe I have actually done x5 my solar array on numerous occassions..

if i had turned on the deep freezers earlier (say around 9am - 10am; instead of the programmed 12pm) ... and/or probably discharged the

batteries a lil' more; i am very sure I would have done x6+

Dat one na piece of cake !!!

On your average day with average conditions and keeping many factors constant, an array can routinely generate 3 to 4 times its nameplate rating in an average installation and 4 to 5 times nameplate rating in a very good installation.

Theoretical not practical . . .

Any array that routinely does 6+ times the nameplate on a daily basis is a superlative install by all standards

Yes it's superlative doesn't mean it doesn't happen . . .
The time is now 10.45 ... and it has been very sunny since 8am here . . If I turn on all the loads my inverter can carry (maximum);
and the sun keeps up like this till about 5pm . .with little or intermittent shades . . . then verily verily i say unto you, I will do x6 of my array
QED.

Court!!!!

p.s: learn to read ppl's comment without prejudice ...

Pi for you might be 22/7; for kiekie it might be 3.14 and for me it might be 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751

I never said mine or his does x6+ routinely . .

I have done x5 routinely . . . depending on weather conditions and load turned on . they have to be in sync . . .

And I only said if I had added more loads I would have done x6 or so . . . (cos when i did 5, i didnt think i loaded the array with even up to 50%

its generative power)

The only downside is the batteries might not float . . . or would probably float around 6pm

as against my usual method of waiting for batteries to float before hitting it with loads.

Battery Charging Voltages Must Always Be Temperature Compensated

I was with a client recently who wanted to upgrade his solar charge controller due to poor performance, we eventually settled on one of the premium options and setting it up at midday I noticed his battery temperature at 43°C but did not think much of it although I found it odd.

Client called me a few days later to say he had observed his controller saying Absorb when in fact the voltage was below 14v per 12v battery and we had set an absorb voltage of 14.2v on the controller. He wanted me to come check/replace the controller because he felt it was not achieving the programmed Absorb voltage setpoint but I was like NO! that cannot be possible (premium CC having issues and undercharging within the 1st 2 weeks)

It was at this point that it struck me. The batteries were under the stair case behind a wooden cabinet in very poorly ventilated conditions creating heat and so the premium CC was *temperature compensating* by lowering the voltage setpoints.

The lesson I want the house to take away from this is that battery charge voltages are set usually at a 25°C reference point. To avoid under/overcharging batteries and prolong their life one must increase the charge voltage for battery temperatures colder than 25°C and reduce the charge voltage for battery temperatures hotter than 25°C. Here in the tropics we would need to reduce our voltage setpoints as my own battery bank temperature sits at around 33°C on a good day and 28°C during the cold harmattan period.

Using a reference case 24v AGM battery bank set to charge at 14.4volts * 2 = 28.8v Absorb setpoint. If the battery temperature were 33°C like mine, the correct temperature compensated absorb point would be (33°C minus 25°C) × -0.03v {the temp correction factor for a 12v battery} × 2 batteries to make 24v

So 8°C × -0.03volts × 2 = -0.48v. Thus all charging sources connected to this reference battery bank should Absorb at 28.8v minus 0.48v = 28.32v when the temperature is at 33°C.

For those with premium CCs this is not a big deal because most have a temperature sensor cable attached and perform temperature compensated charging by default but for the bulk of inverters and budget CCs out there especially who lack the temperature compensation cable or port the only way would be to manually adjust the charge voltage to a lower setpoint bearing in mind the average battery temperature your battery is exposed to.

What does the house think? Could lack of temperature compensated charging be part of the reason why batteries die early in the tropics and never achieve the kind of long lifespan we read about in the foreign blogs (easily 5+ years).

niyiomoiyunade,
you're very much on point. temperature compensation is a very critical part of
battery charging that most of us take for granted. not only are the chinko ccs
guilty of this, even the so-called budget inverters err greatly in this regard. in
so many words, you have just identified one of the major causes of premature
battery deaths in renewables. but the question is, will peeps listen?

GeorgeD1:
niyiomoiyunade,
you're very much on point. temperature compensation is a very critical part of
battery charging that most of us take for granted. not only are the chinko ccs
guilty of this, even the so-called budget inverters err greatly in this regard. in
so many words, you have just identified one of the major causes of premature
battery deaths in renewables. but the question is, will peeps listen?

Yep you all are right and it also comes written in some mppt manual. My mppt comes with battery volt sensing kit & battery temperature sensor attached on battery body and it works good as written in its manual.
Note: I have a spare new morningstar temperature sensor for clients interested ! Cheer's

Oga.. You had to summon all the gods to answer a simple question

kiekie1:


Oga Niyi,
Good morning , I hail ooo ! All this your long thesis sef ... All I said was simplified , you have been to my place and I have also been to your crib and I must say that in all solar calculations we have losses we must contend with ! Question you asked and expecting raw figures has already been answered by Oga George D few pages ago when he detailed about "Oversizing your PV array" against rainy days ceteris paribus & that was a major reason why he gets charge current even when his panels are dusty ! Juo also gave you some tweaks which most will say its unethical to load an mppt above its required wattage . we must not type about personal experiment or tweaks which worked for us here as it might not work for Mr B due to factors surrounding his mppt brand etc ...
Juo has also mentioned it in past but most will always argue its wrong but i just smile ... I discuss better with most who engage me in qualitative chats about their PV yield . Richmond will also tell you that "its most of us day to day business and we feed our family on this" ..
In summary, I replied my total PV array as MAX 1600w "loss inclusive" as I have always been a 24v fan like Oga Durodee and utilise my panels to peak ! I get 50-62a cc always and most sceptic pals will still tell you that your mppt might blow up on the short run due to operating at max , over heating et al but mine smiles daily at max .. Cheer's

DMerciful:
Oga.. You had to summon all the gods to answer a simple question

Lol guess you love gossips . The said question was duely answered & I believe you have an idea of my PV set up via what's app chats .. We ain't in a court room nw

I know your setup and it's great ...enjoy

kiekie1:


Lol guess you love gossips . The said question was duely answered & I believe you have an idea of my PV set up via what's app chats .. We ain't in a court room nw

Just wondering where the founder(sathob) of this beautiful thread is. A wonderful thread indeed.
Regards to him.

kiekie1:


Hmmn quit suspecting as I get above that figure displayed today most days when I drain my 14400wh battery bank a bit before dawn .. I have posted about my ground mounted PV array in the past. My 60a mppt has been operating at (peak1600w at 24v) for years as my batteries float daily before dusk"observing 50-70% DOD rules" ! I can't remember when last I turned on the 7.5kva gen even on rainy days

[/quote]

NiyiOmoIyunade:
These are great results KieKie

The question you seem to be so cleverly dodging is what is the exact size of your PV array that is very similar to @Durodee's? 1.5kw? or 1.6kw? or 1.8kw? or 2.4kw? that routinely generates 8.9kwh daily yield ?

If you have a 1.53kw array like @Durodee then we are looking at a superlative 6times PV array size daily yield which is superior even to the best known routine results from high sun intensity and long solar days areas like Australia.

I am asking you to tell us the exact size of your PV array not to throw shade but rather so we can put the yield results in perspective and any newbies can set realistic expectations.

If you are daily generating 6 times your array size on a regular basis then we all need to come learn at your feet and pick up pro tips and tricks to use in our own installs

ahha, good you spotted his carefully worded response , i noticed but decided to ignore, but as you hv broached the subject.................................

am fairly certain his array is oversized, why he refuses to state the full capacity of his array, am really clueless , makes no sense at all.
my array is 1500w on 24v inverter, hooked up on 60amp epsolar, hv been adviced by the house to ramp it up to 2000w or 1800w to squueze out the the remaining juice from my setup.

this i hv decided to do this easter, will add 2 x 250w panels and change my setup from a 2 strings of 3panels to 4 strings of 2 panels.
max instantenous wattage i hv observed is about 1320w, i must confess my installation isnt optimal,,,as i simple used the existing roof space, hopefully the extra 500w will take to to the promised land of squeezing out 1600w fromm my cc as kiekie

In the tradition of the house, I'm sharing my very first installation.

This is my first dealing (3 weeks ago) with kiekie1 and he didn't disappoint. Paid for items on Saturday and by Monday it was delivered to Akwa Ibom. Was initially skeptical about the brand but with his assurance, I must say the brand - Foresolar is beyond expectation.

325W foresolar * 2 for a total of 650W wired in series.
60A tristar MPPT controller with no meter
60A and 32A circuit breaker - wired such that if the battery is disconnected the solar is disconnected as well through the 60A breaker. The 32A breaker is solely for solar.
Chinese meter is for monitoring power into or out of the battery. The monitoring for the controller will be by Ethernet. The router is yet to arrived.

The attached images were taken at 4:20pm today. The total current drawn by inverter as fridge, tv and fan are on is 11.2A. So in essence the current from controller is 14.9A. The setup still manage to pump 1A to 7A during the period it is shaded due to the panel location.

Kudos and thanks for sharing. What do you intend to do about the shading considering the fact that you will be loosing significant power due to d shade.

mank1234:
In the tradition of the house, I'm sharing my very first installation.

This is my first dealing (3 weeks ago) with kiekie1 and he didn't disappoint. Paid for items on Saturday and by Monday it was delivered to Akwa Ibom. Was initially skeptical about the brand but with his assurance, I must say the brand - Foresolar is beyond expectation.

325W foresolar * 2 for a total of 650W wired in series.
60A tristar MPPT controller with no meter
60A and 32A circuit breaker - wired such that if the battery is disconnected the solar is disconnected as well through the 60A breaker. The 32A breaker is solely for solar.
Chinese meter is for monitoring power into or out of the battery. The monitoring for the controller will be by Ethernet. The router is yet to arrived.

The attached images were taken at 4:20pm today. The total current drawn by inverter as fridge, tv and fan are on is 11.2A. So in essence the current from controller is 14.9A. The setup still manage to pump 1A to 7A during the period it is shaded due to the panel location.

His house prolly got burnt down from solar power gone wrong, hence his conspicuous absence

Na yoke I dey yoke o...

DMerciful:
Just wondering where the founder(sathob) of this beautiful thread is. A wonderful thread indeed.
Regards to him.

DMerciful:
Kudos and thanks for sharing. What do you intend to do about the shading considering the fact that you will be loosing significant power due to d shade.

When 4 more panel is added, it will be taken to the roof and public electricity cut off.

Big decision. 4 more panels will bring your PV array to 1.95kw.
With typical system inefficiencies and looking at that duplex, are you saying you can live on barely 6kwh to 8kwh daily?

mank1234:


When 4 more panel is added, it will be taken to the roof and public electricity cut off .

Barezzi:
Big decision. 4 more panels will bring your PV array to 1.95kw.
With typical system inefficiencies and looking at that duplex, are you saying you can live on barely 6kwh to 8kwh daily?

Duplex ke. That's a large compound housing 6 flats - 2 on each floor. It's for one flat only.

Malevonent:





These are great results KieKie

The question you seem to be so cleverly dodging is what is the exact size of your PV array that is very similar to @Durodee's? 1.5kw? or 1.6kw? or 1.8kw? or 2.4kw? that routinely generates 8.9kwh daily yield ?

If you have a 1.53kw array like @Durodee then we are looking at a superlative 6times PV array size daily yield which is superior even to the best known routine results from high sun intensity and long solar days areas like Australia.

I am asking you to tell us the exact size of your PV array not to throw shade but rather so we can put the yield results in perspective and any newbies can set realistic expectations.

If you are daily generating 6 times your array size on a regular basis then we all need to come learn at your feet and pick up pro tips and tricks to use in our own installs




ahha, good you spotted his carefully worded response , i noticed but decided to ignore, but as you hv broached the subject.................................

am fairly certain his array is oversized, why he refuses to state the full capacity of his array, am really clueless , makes no sense at all.
my array is 1500w on 24v inverter, hooked up on 60amp epsolar, hv been adviced by the house to ramp it up to 2000w or 1800w to squueze out the the remaining juice from my setup.

this i hv decided to do this easter, will add 2 x 250w panels and change my setup from a 2 strings of 3panels to 4 strings of 2 panels.
max instantenous wattage i hv observed is about 1320w, i must confess my installation isnt optimal,,,as i simple used the existing roof space, hopefully the extra 500w will take to to the promised land of squeezing out 1600w fromm my cc as kiekie

Haha you observed well !

mank1234:
In the tradition of the house, I'm sharing my very first installation.

This is my first dealing (3 weeks ago) with kiekie1 and he didn't disappoint. Paid for items on Saturday and by Monday it was delivered to Akwa Ibom. Was initially skeptical about the brand but with his assurance, I must say the brand - Foresolar is beyond expectation.

325W foresolar * 2 for a total of 650W wired in series.
60A tristar MPPT controller with no meter
60A and 32A circuit breaker - wired such that if the battery is disconnected the solar is disconnected as well through the 60A breaker. The 32A breaker is solely for solar.
Chinese meter is for monitoring power into or out of the battery. The monitoring for the controller will be by Ethernet. The router is yet to arrived.

The attached images were taken at 4:20pm today. The total current drawn by inverter as fridge, tv and fan are on is 11.2A. So in essence the current from controller is 14.9A. The setup still manage to pump 1A to 7A during the period it is shaded due to the panel location.

Good evening Sir, Congrats on your setup ! My regards !!

If you're single, then you no get wahala. A wife will test your patience in renewable energy and self sufficiency. Don't quote me o, I'm on my 5th bottle of beer.

mank1234:


Duplex ke. That's a large compound housing 6 flats - 2 on each floor. It's for one flat only.

Barezzi:
If you're single, then you no get wahala. A wife will test your patience in renewable energy and self sufficiency. Don't quote me o, I'm on my 5th bottle of beer.

Boss , I dey your back #4th bottle ... Happy weekend Sir !

kiekie1:


Good evening Sir, Congrats on your setup ! My regards !!

Thanks once again. Keep it up.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Battery Charging Voltages Must Always Be Temperature Compensated

I was with a client recently who wanted to upgrade his solar charge controller due to poor performance, we eventually settled on one of the premium options and setting it up at midday I noticed his battery temperature at 43°C but did not think much of it although I found it odd.

Client called me a few days later to say he had observed his controller saying Absorb when in fact the voltage was below 14v per 12v battery and we had set an absorb voltage of 14.2v on the controller. He wanted me to come check/replace the controller because he felt it was not achieving the programmed Absorb voltage setpoint but I was like NO! that cannot be possible (premium CC having issues and undercharging within the 1st 2 weeks)

It was at this point that it struck me. The batteries were under the stair case behind a wooden cabinet in very poorly ventilated conditions creating heat and so the premium CC was *temperature compensating* by lowering the voltage setpoints.

The lesson I want the house to take away from this is that battery charge voltages are set usually at a 25°C reference point. To avoid under/overcharging batteries and prolong their life one must increase the charge voltage for battery temperatures colder than 25°C and reduce the charge voltage for battery temperatures hotter than 25°C. Here in the tropics we would need to reduce our voltage setpoints as my own battery bank temperature sits at around 33°C on a good day and 28°C during the cold harmattan period.

Using a reference case 24v AGM battery bank set to charge at 14.4volts * 2 = 28.8v Absorb setpoint. If the battery temperature were 33°C like mine, the correct temperature compensated absorb point would be (33°C minus 25°C) × -0.03v {the temp correction factor for a 12v battery} × 2 batteries to make 24v

So 8°C × -0.03volts × 2 = -0.48v. Thus all charging sources connected to this reference battery bank should Absorb at 28.8v minus 0.48v = 28.32v when the temperature is at 33°C.

For those with premium CCs this is not a big deal because most have a temperature sensor cable attached and perform temperature compensated charging by default but for the bulk of inverters and budget CCs out there especially who lack the temperature compensation cable or port the only way would be to manually adjust the charge voltage to a lower setpoint bearing in mind the average battery temperature your battery is exposed to.

What does the house think? Could lack of temperature compensated charging be part of the reason why batteries die early in the tropics and never achieve the kind of long lifespan we read about in the foreign blogs (easily 5+ years).

irrefutable fact!!! Battery and high temperatures are like salt and water.

And unfortunately, just like oga George pointed out, it's being ignored. I've seen some installations that want to make me cry. You see someone will bring out huge amount of money to set up an inverter and/or solar system and will end up regretting just because of a careless installer.

A friend called me once that he noticed that his batteries are smelling. on reaching his house, first thing I noticed was that his inverter system were directly at the back of his deep freezer.

only the heat around that area can warm water in 20mins. I touched the batteries and they weren't warm; they were HOT!!! out of the four batteries, the two closest to the freezer were very hot and were already bulged and glued together. had to pulled them out and even noticed some cracks which must have resulted from the thermal stress.

we had to relocate the freezer and he's been managing the other two batteries for like 4 months now.

Another set up I've seen was right inside the kitchen!!! 2v, 500Ah Telecom batteries. they didn't last up to 5months, according to the client. This is the kitchen where they cook with 2 deep freezers and wasnt even that spacious. the day I even went to inspect it, the wife was microwaving and the place was just warm.

Now, I know that some challenges that people face is always space. What I personally do is that, if the only available place that the inverter will be isn't that well ventilated, I put a fan there that'll be blowing the system. non stop.

It's better to keep the system cool than even allow the compensation system (for premium systems) to derate the charging. I'm currently installing 4kva Schneider INVERTER with PT100 SCC, both of which comes with a BTS. planning to use only the SCC BTS as most of the charging will be done by Solar. Nevertheless, I'll place a fan to keep the system cool and always allow the SCC to optimally charge the system

Nevertheless, fan or no fan, there are just places I couldn't dare to install the system.

Heat is one of the greatest enemy of inverter batteries

one of the installations (recent) I had to use fan

Iovely

mank1234:
In the tradition of the house, I'm sharing my very first installation.

This is my first dealing (3 weeks ago) with kiekie1 and he didn't disappoint. Paid for items on Saturday and by Monday it was delivered to Akwa Ibom. Was initially skeptical about the brand but with his assurance, I must say the brand - Foresolar is beyond expectation.

325W foresolar * 2 for a total of 650W wired in series.
60A tristar MPPT controller with no meter
60A and 32A circuit breaker - wired such that if the battery is disconnected the solar is disconnected as well through the 60A breaker. The 32A breaker is solely for solar.
Chinese meter is for monitoring power into or out of the battery. The monitoring for the controller will be by Ethernet. The router is yet to arrived.

The attached images were taken at 4:20pm today. The total current drawn by inverter as fridge, tv and fan are on is 11.2A. So in essence the current from controller is 14.9A. The setup still manage to pump 1A to 7A during the period it is shaded due to the panel location.

Barezzi:
If you're single, then you no get wahala. A wife will test your patience in renewable energy and self sufficiency. Don't quote me o, I'm on my 5th bottle of beer.

........
P34c3
.....
...

durodee:
Update on thin film panels 1.4kw on 60 amp MPPT iTracer . Got a total harvest of 8.1kw yesterday. Pic taken around 5pm when harvest was 8kw. Fingers crossed!!!

In 2015 I did an installation 1.4kw using thin films. I got extremely good harvests. I lost the EP solar 60amp CC to thunder strike and now use 2 30amp CCs, so no recent pics. The 7.7kwh harvest was from my Mono panels in 2015 or 16. I hardly monitor my POLY panels; they were bought used without specs.

CC: NiyiOmoIyunade

8.1 / 1.4 = 5.8 x

mank1234:
In the tradition of the house, I'm sharing my very first installation.

This is my first dealing (3 weeks ago) with kiekie1 and he didn't disappoint. Paid for items on Saturday and by Monday it was delivered to Akwa Ibom. Was initially skeptical about the brand but with his assurance, I must say the brand - Foresolar is beyond expectation.

325W foresolar * 2 for a total of 650W wired in series.
60A tristar MPPT controller with no meter
60A and 32A circuit breaker - wired such that if the battery is disconnected the solar is disconnected as well through the 60A breaker. The 32A breaker is solely for solar.
Chinese meter is for monitoring power into or out of the battery. The monitoring for the controller will be by Ethernet. The router is yet to arrived.
The attached images were taken at 4:20pm today. The total current drawn by inverter as fridge, tv and fan are on is 11.2A. So in essence the current from controller is 14.9A. The setup still manage to pump 1A to 7A during the period it is shaded due to the panel location.

@mank1234

Quite Impressive. Thanks for sharing. Welcome to the Club!!!

Just finally moved to my own modest house. Decided to finally take a chill pill on the race for the higher wattage and settle for efficiency on the consumption side. This allowed me to set aside some funds for putting a roof over my head all glory be to God. My 1.84kw panel is all the electricity I need for now. I will connect to the grid once am done with some finishing touches to the house.. I generate enough to provide me 24 hours electricity that meets every basic needs refrigeration, laundry, light, TV, kitchen stuff.

The house runs on LED spot lights the highest being the single 12w kitchen lights. Over night amps draw before sun rise is 75AH from a 24v 200ah battery. I had time regig my setup.. Power drill was a life saver.