₦airaland Forum

Moorish:
Benin did not have any tributary states

Oyo had Dahomey, and all the Yoruba tribes southward as tributaries

Oyo administered and controlled these areas.

Benin city had a good layout. And good arts ye

But the military might in precolonial Nigeria were 3 peoples

Oyo

Sokoto

Kanem Borno

Not true because ,some Yorubas enclave didnt pay any tributaries to Oyo but exchange of gifts. Otun in Ekiti and some in part of Kwara didn't pay Oyo any tributary. Awujale didn't pay. Ado Ekiti didn't pay tributary, In fact ,Ado ( Ekiti) initiated OYO into IFA, Orangun Ila didn't pay, Owa Obokun didn't pay,IFE Ooye can't pay(sacred city), Small States such as Iwo, Idanre,Oka, didn't pay, infact mostly Akoko Yorubas groups didn't pay because, many settlers in Akoko,were hunters,IFA priests, Osanyi Worshippers, princes and princes of different kings from IFE and few Odua descendants that moved to that direction for one reason or the other. These set of people were tactical in warefare, physically and spiritually fits. Outside these, the terrain were so hilly except the mastery of climbing and understanding, these forest zone's hilly tactics before such people could be defeated and it never happened...Many warring groups tried but failed.

Olu317:
Not true because ,some Yorubas enclave didnt pay any tributaries to Oyo but exchange of gifts. Otun in Ekiti and some in part of Kwara didn't pay Oyo any tributary. Awujale didn't pay. Ado Ekiti didn't pay tributary, In fact ,Ado ( Ekiti) initiated OYO into IFA, Orangun Ila didn't pay, Owa Obokun didn't pay,IFE Ooye can't pay(sacred city), Small States such as Iwo, Idanre,Oka, didn't pay, infact mostly Akoko Yorubas groups didn't pay because, many settlers in Akoko,were hunters,IFA priests, Osanyi Worshippers, princes and princes of different kings from IFE and few Odua descendants that moved to that direction for one reason or the other. These set of people were tactical in warefare, physically and spiritually fits. Outside these, the terrain were so hilly except the mastery of climbing and understanding, these forest zone's hilly tactics before such people could be defeated and it never happened...Many warring groups tried but failed.

It was Lisabi who freed the Egba from Oyo

Ekiti and ondo were not under Oyo jurisdiction

Ife was part of the Oyo Empire and the headquarters was old Oyo before it moved to Oyo ile. I don’t know if it paid tributes or not

What was ekiti and ondo’s Relationship to alaafin like before Kiriji?

davidnazee:
It’s a lie jor.. stop deceiving yourself..
anyways here is research from your fellow Yoruba brother..

“The origin of the Benin and Yoruba empires of old have come to the fore and they have been subject of intense debate.
No doubt the origins of the two empires are obscure being deeply buried in legend and mythology and it is not easy to say what amount of history or the amount of embellished history they contain. In truth these traditions which on the surface try to account for the origin of these empires are perhaps little more than ideological chatters legitimizing the political systems, traditions, cultures, etc. of the people. This general position not withstanding, it is worthy of note that the Benin through their well renowned Arts and Craft recorded their history and event in addition to the account of the guild of oral recorders. The most contentious of this debate for now, however, is the Benin-Ife historical connection.

Many historians and social anthropologists especially the Yoruba historians have been greatly impressed by the tradition that the Yoruba Kingdom fathered the second Benin empire. According to Prof. A.B.Aderibigbe, "obviously there is an attempt in this story to gloss over what in fact was an alien imposition." Along the same line, Prof Michael Growder said that this tradition could be "a convenient legend to disguise what in fact was a conquest by the Oduduwa party".

Here however, the following points are worthy of note: First the Ife-Benin connection has been vigorously questioned by Prof. A.F.C. Ryder. He had pointed out that this tradition which seeks to connect Benin with Ife is suspect. He argues that throughout four centuries of contact between Benin and various European nations, in particular Portugal, there was no hint or reference to this relationship between the two empires. The tradition was not mentioned or recorded by any writer until after the British occupation of Benin in 1897. He also pointed out that the city of Ife is believed to be younger than Benin and therefore could not have fathered the second Benin Empire.

Second, according to Prof Ryder, by 1485 Benin was an impressive and large city. Judging by the evidence of European visitors, it was perhaps the largest and most impressive city which the Portuguese saw along the west coast of Africa. Recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built probably not before the first decade of the 16th century while the capital of old Oyo, Yatenga, was built much later. This would seem to show that the complex political system of the Yoruba which the Benin Kingdom is believed to have descended must have originated much later than the Benin Kingdom.

Third, much of the evidence which is believed to corroborate the claims made in the traditions comes from enthnohistory, that is, historical speculations based on assumed logical sequence of development in the political system. This is most unreliable.

By the 15th Century, the Benin Kingdom had achieved the height of its greatness. It remained the most powerful and the largest Kingdom in the forest region of West Africa until about the end of the first half of the 17 century. During these two centuries of its ascendancy Benin empire stretched as far west as Lagos, Badagry and Whyidah (Dahomey). On the north-west it stretched as far as Ekiti, Akure and Owo. Towards the north, it stretched to Ishan Country and the southern position of Idah. Finally on the east it incorporated at various times various portions of Ika-Ibo and as far as the River Niger.

Prof. Biobaku has suggested that the eastern fringe of what is now Yorubaland was in pre-Yoruba days thinly inhabited by the ancestors of the modern Benin people, a people which he called the Efa. And if recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built not before the first decade of the 16th century thereby making it to be younger than Benin”

Whether you like it or not ,you are knocked down. All these your razzmatazz aren't finished? Hmmm, quite shocking! Honestly, I have not seen such Edo personalities like you and your likes ,although not all,I must confess but you and other Ogiamien or EFA descendants are always the same . Just like your ancestors, never give up. I know if it were something wishes could do, perhaps, you would have changed the status quo of “Oba" back to the real ancient Edo setting back to“Edionwere",right? Quickly, since you have decided to remain bias by quoting some historians partially on how Bini emerge from the rubble.I will like you to also ponder and come up with same information given on the following by similar historians.Namely:
1. Why did Udo lost it radiance as the seat of power to new one founded by Ewedo?
2. Why did it took the Uzama so long that it span almost 1 century before Oranmiyan was sent to halt the chaotic since you knew him?
3. Why are some names shared with some few Yoruba kingdoms such Olua,Olotan(Olota),Oliha, Ologbosere etc, not having meaning in Edo if they were/are indigenous?
4. Why do you Bini also claim Ogiso fell from the sky( King from sky if not IFE's folklore)?
5. If your assertion is right about Bini being different from other Yoruba kingdoms ,how was the alloy copper of an Ooni dug out in the heart of the Bini palace?
6. If Odua, was Edo, Why did Oba Bini agreed and pronounced that Ooni Adewusi is sitting on Oranmiyan's throne , whom, he( Oba Bini), Ooni Adewusi and others were his descendants?
7.If Oranmiyan, his entourage that went with him and his descendants after left Ibinu land weren't strangers, why did Urhobo, Isoko and extended clans migrated from Edo if not oppression and subjugation, rebellious,vexation?
8. What's the etymology of Osa in Edoland if Ogiso was king of the sky? While Urhobo, Isoko,etc who were ancient Edoid group acknowledged Oghene as God?
9. If you claimed, Edo influenced some Eastern Yorubas why was the dressing of Eastern Yorubas kings were more glamorous with more attention to beaded crowns, embroidery of solomon's knot and proper body covering of the whole body of such kings with clothing but not in the same vein with Oba Bini,that adorn more with beads on his neck and no strong attachment to Solomon's knot nor total body covering with Aso Okè?
10. Do you know there were EFA group ( aboriginal of the land), Igodo group before the last Yoruba prince ( Oranmiyan) came with Oba as a title to Udu/Igodomigodo?

You can see that subjugation was the reason Yoruba dethroned all in Udo and enclave to form Bini as the powerhouse of Edoland and beyond. This is the reason it is a taboo for anyone to be addressed as Oba except Yoruba kings. Perhaps, you are EFA, IKA,UDO...The most subjugated groups. Do some verification .After all, historical account affirmed that there are Yoruba ancestors among Urhobos.....Thank God, some people don't lie about their past for ridiculous glory. Funny enough, Urhobo is bigger than present day Edo speaking group.

N.B
Epistle it looked? Enjoy it

Moorish:
It was Lisabi who freed the Egba from Oyo

Ekiti and ondo were not under Oyo jurisdiction

Ife was part of the Oyo Empire and the headquarters was old Oyo before it moved to Oyo ile. I don’t know if it paid tributes or not

What was ekiti and ondo’s Relationship to alaafin like before Kiriji?

IFE was never part of Oyo Empire. A taboo. Around 12th century, 13th century,14th century , there were migration of princes outside ILE IFE, for expeditions and war mastery....Late Bishop Samuel Ajayi crowther blundered on so many information about IFE history. The first time IFE had heavy issue was with Modakeke , whom were refugees from Oyo, after the collapse of OyO ILE. They were given place to stay when Oyo had serious issue with Afonja Ilorin and when there was a problem with IFE, they formed alliance with Ibadan that had risen to a formidable military bloc to attack and sacked IFE before kings, princes and mercenaries were also called who fought against Ibadan and restore dignity to the throne of Odua that Oranmiyan reignec on as well as his descendants that held and protected it. Funny enough, the Oba Erediuwa who was claiming Odua as a a rediculous Owodo descendants would not be able to do so today, if Ibadan had ridiculed these great men that fought and chased Ibadan Out of the place,despite her might at that time . Their Ancestor known as was Oba Adolo and Oba Ovonranmien were busy accumulating wealth at detriment of their patrilineal lineage's heaviest throne.....

Olu317:
IFE was never part of Oyo Empire. A taboo. Around 12th century, 13th century,14th century , there were migration of princes outside ILE IFE, for expeditions and war mastery....Late Bishop Samuel Ajayi crowther blundered on so many information about IFE history. The first time IFE had heavy issue was with Modakeke , whom were refugees from Oyo, after the collapse of OyO ILE. They were given place to stay when Oyo had serious issue with Afonja Ilorin and when there was a problem with IFE, they formed alliance with Ibadan that had risen to a formidable military bloc to attack and sacked IFE before kings, princes and mercenaries were also called who fought against Ibadan and restore dignity to the throne of Odua that Oranmiyan reignec on as well as his descendants that held and protected it. Funny enough, the Oba Erediuwa who was claiming Odua as a a rediculous Owodo descendants would not be able to do so today, if Ibadan had ridiculed these great men that fought and chased Ibadan Out of the place,despite her might at that time . Their Ancestor known as was Oba Adolo and Oba Ovonranmien were busy accumulating wealth at detriment of their patrilineal lineage's heaviest throne.....

Need to do more study on what u just stated

I had always read that ife was inside the Oyo Empire

But, do u know the relationship status between eastern yorubas and ife/Oyo ? Before kiriji ?

According to German writer wendt Herbert:

“By the 11th century AD, the Yoruba, ruling from the city of Ile Ife, were the leading cultural force in southern Nigeria”

"Modern ethnologists," Wendt wrote, "have found the art of the
Yorubas so astonishingly high in quality that they did not [at first]
ascribe it to a Negro race ... It was Leo Frobenius who first ranked the
culture of the Yorubas with that of the Mediterranean “

Herbert Wendt “The Yorubas introduced the cultivation of yams, the
preparation of cheese and the breeding of horses into West Africa.”

“The Yoruba
Empire consisted of city states similar to those of ancient Greece.
Some of these states had 150,000 or 250,000 inhabitants. Art objects
of the highest quality were found in their ruins--glazed urns, tiles
with pictures of animals and gods on them, bronze implements, gigantic
granite figures. “

Benin is not our mate oh!

By the 11th century AD, the Yoruba, ruling from the city of Ile Ife, were the leading cultural force in southern Nigeria. Their civilisation has been widely admired by many scholars. Prof Cheikh Anta Diop, for example, wrote that: "It is impossible to describe here all the riches of the civilisation of Ife. Herbert Wendt, a German science writer, was much more flattering:

"Modern ethnologists," Wendt wrote, "have found the art of the
Yorubas so astonishingly high in quality that they did not [at first]
ascribe it to a Negro race ... It was Leo Frobenius who first ranked the
culture of the Yorubas with that of the Mediterranean ... The Yoruba
Empire consisted of city states similar to those of ancient Greece.
Some of these states had 150,000 or 250,000 inhabitants. Art objects
of the highest quality were found in their ruins--glazed urns, tiles
with pictures of animals and gods on them, bronze implements, gigantic
granite figures. The Yorubas introduced the cultivation of yams, the
preparation of cheese and the breeding of horses into West Africa.
"They had outstanding artists in metal, gold-casters, cotton-weavers,
wood-carvers and potters. Their professions formed themselves into
guilds with their own laws, their children were brought up in
educational camps, their public affairs were directed by a courtly
aristocracy and an exuberantly expanding bureaucracy."
Prof Leo Frobenius, the German scholar, was the pioneering authority on the Yoruba Civilisation. When he first encountered this culture in the early 20th century, he felt he had discovered remnants of the lost Greek civilisation of Atlantis. In addition, Frobenius identified Olukun, the Yoruba sea god, with Poseidon, the ancient Greek deity.

While this analysis is all clearly in error, another European scholar, Peter Garlake, explains why Frobenius could be forgiven for making these blunders: "The calm repose and realism of the [Yoruba] sculptures were reminiscent of Classical Greece. The pantheon of Yoruba gods, their attributes, their vivid lives and complex responsibilities echoed Mount Olympus. The architecture of the houses and palaces, where rooms opened off enclosed courtyards, open to the sky, resembled the impluvia of early Mediterranean, particularly Etruscan [ie, Roman] buildings. The Yoruba concept of the universe, their educational system, the organisation of their society and their statecraft supported a Greek connection."

[ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]

Ile-Ife was the ancient capital city of the Yorubas. Archaeological excavations showed that the site was inhabited by 600 AD. Among the first residents were farmers who cultivated yams and oil palms. "It was also clear," wrote the Africanists Roland Oliver and Brian Fagan in their book, Africa in the Iron Age, "that from the earliest times Ife had an important iron industry, and also that it engaged in the manufacture of glass. …

@olu do you know of any historical significance of the obelisk ?

Ethiopia, Egypt, Greece and Yoruba all had obelisks

We have a staff of Oranmiyan

Greece staff of Orion

Moorish:
Herbert Wendt “The Yorubas introduced the cultivation of yams, the
preparation of cheese and the breeding of horses into West Africa.”

“The Yoruba
Empire consisted of city states similar to those of ancient Greece.
Some of these states had 150,000 or 250,000 inhabitants. Art objects
of the highest quality were found in their ruins--glazed urns, tiles
with pictures of animals and gods on them, bronze implements, gigantic
granite figures. “

Benin is not our mate oh!

But you know this is a big lie na..
which ruins is in Yoruba lands? So Yoruba brought horses into West Africa abi?
Na wa.. you yorubas never ceases to amaze. You so ashamed of your history that you now twist and lie to cover it.
What’s the point of covering something everyone already knows?
Yoruba was weak and irrelevant in the past..
Benin Kingdom conquered and ruled Yoruba..
Eastern Yoruba lands is part of Benin Empire.
Always remember that..

davidnazee:
But you know this is a big lie na..
which ruins is in Yoruba lands? So Yoruba brought horses into West Africa abi?
Na wa.. you yorubas never ceases to amaze. You so ashamed of your history that you now twist and lie to cover it.
What’s the point of covering something everyone already knows?
Yoruba was weak and irrelevant in the past..
Benin Kingdom conquered and ruled Yoruba..
Eastern Yoruba lands is part of Benin Empire.
Always remember that..

Lol

Now I know you are a troll

Be gone

Moorish:
Lol

Now I know you are a troll

Be gone

And you moorish is a liar..

Moorish:
Need to do more study on what u just stated

I had always read that ife was inside the Oyo Empire

But, do u know the relationship status between eastern yorubas and ife/Oyo ? Before kiriji ?

IFE was the sacred city,where princes are identified through their crowns. Crowns differs,irrespective of who wears it. The kingly families under Ooni can't wear same crown status like them . Oyo acknowledged the real princes, who are of his patrilineal lineage that founded different kingdoms and they worked on terms, exchange gifts with some and influence some because of her military might,especially in the western Yorubas and place like Ede that was set up as a military Base by OYO. Take for instance, Otun that I mentioned was never attacked by Oyo and was always accorded with respect, so also other kingdoms,which were reciprocated . The Eastern Yorubas, were basically non radical like Oyo in transformation and maintain the cordial relationship with IFE as the home of their ancestors. A place from which everyone draw inspiration from ILE IFE as their power house. Despite, different approach to doing things,all still believed in unity in diversity of their different development. At times,princes were called or invited to help waged war against rebels that were invited from Bini. Luusi did fought for Ado Ekiti to help chase away Nupe,Kwarafas,Ika,Bini invasion, known as Ogun Èléwa. Another instance ,was a clear case when Ondo Égi (Ekimogun) kingdom was threatened by rebels, somewhere along the line, Derin Ologbenla subdued the rebels and invaders from Bini around 1824/5 and restored the Yoruba monarchial system and moved back to Oke Igbo before many years after, that he was made the Ooni IFE. There were other warriors such as hunters, sword men,archers, etc with strong Osanyi(herbs) knowledge that were also used as mercenaries to fight so as to rescue many kingdoms from possible invaders. These were what many princes and other mercenaries etc did for their family and yoruba kingdom when the had problems of invaders.

Olu317:
IFE was the sacred city,where princes are identified through their crowns. Crowns differs,irrespective of who wears it. The kingly families under Ooni can't wear same crown status like them . Oyo acknowledged the real princes, who are of his patrilineal lineage that founded different kingdoms and they worked on terms, exchange gifts with some and influence some because of her military might,especially in the western Yorubas and place like Ede that was set up as a military Base by OYO. Take for instance, Otun that I mentioned was never attacked by Oyo and was always accorded with respect, so also other kingdoms,which were reciprocated . The Eastern Yorubas, were basically non radical like Oyo in transformation and maintain the cordial relationship with IFE as the home of their ancestors. A place from which everyone draw inspiration from ILE IFE as their power house. Despite, different approach to doing things,all still believed in unity in diversity of their different development. At times,princes were called or invited to help waged war against rebels that were invited from Bini. Luusi did fought for Ado Ekiti to help chase away Nupe,Kwarafas,Ika,Bini invasion, known as Ogun Èléwa. Another instance ,was a clear case when Ondo Égi (Ekimogun) kingdom was threatened by rebels, somewhere along the line, Derin Ologbenla subdued the rebels and invaders from Bini around 1824/5 and restored the Yoruba monarchial system and moved back to Oke Igbo before many years after, that he was made the Ooni IFE. There were other warriors such as hunters, sword men,archers, etc with strong Osanyi(herbs) knowledge that were also used as mercenaries to fight so as to rescue many kingdoms from possible invaders. These were what many princes and other mercenaries etc did for their family and yoruba kingdom when the had problems of invaders.

Wow, reading this was so cool. I am highly interested In the herbsmen, the osanyi

So cool, thanks

So the eastern yorubas also acknowledged IFE as their ancestral home in pre colonial times ? I didn’t know that

I often felt it was Samuel Johnson who first espoused a collective “Yoruba” identity for our people

Moorish:
Wow, reading this was so cool. I am highly interested In the herbsmen, the osanyi

So cool, thanks

So the eastern yorubas also acknowledged IFE as their ancestral home in pre colonial times ? I didn’t know that

I often felt it was Samuel Johnson who first espoused a collective “Yoruba” identity for our people

Nooo he wasn't correct because he didn't travel far to other Yoruba enclaves and didn't compile the proper history but Oyo's loyalist account. Kudos to him though . In fact ,many Eastern Yorubas acknowledged this wholeheartedly because, a lot of princes, priests and hunters settled down in that region more than Western Yoruba princes, Northern Yorubas , whose enclave had more, chiefs and citizens lineage.

Olu317:
Nooo he wasn't correct because he didn't travel far to other Yoruba enclaves and didn't compile the proper history but Oyo's loyalist account. Kudos to him though . In fact ,many Eastern Yorubas acknowledged this wholeheartedly because, a lot of princes, priests and hunters settled down in that region more than Western Yoruba princes, Northern Yorubas , whose enclave had more, chiefs and citizens lineage.

I think Ifa cosmology and our indigenous beliefs are highly underrated. Imagine if we were never conquered by Britain? And We had our own calendar system, we developed indigenous tech and architectural styles etc

I feel like most Africans are soulless. We do not create anything new, except in the arts. We have no indigenous philosophy or religious creeds we adhere to. Imagine if instead of churches we had our own indigenous corpus, veneration of our ancestors, arts, reverence for our lands etc the Monies spent on Jewish and Arab religions would have been channeled towards a Yoruba agenda. This would have spurned all kinds of art, crafts, architecture and civilizations

I am also abit confused because while I want to further Yoruba civilization, I am also always filled with pride whenever I see the cultural influence Nigeria has in Africa, from our music to movies etc

So I think the Nigerian project, although it suppresses our indigenous nationalities, it also gives us more influence on the world stage

Do you agree olu ?

davidnazee:
If you like deceive yourselves from now till tomorrow it doesn’t change historical accounts and facts that Benin kingdom conquered and ruled Yorubas.
Benin is always described as conquering and spreading far into Yorubalands and beyond. That is an empire.
So continuing deceiving yourself and your Yoruba brothers. We ruled you... chased your people from their lands, resettled some of u in different places, forced yorubas to flee their cities and villages into the mountains and forests.
Yoruba was the easiest for us to conquer because they are all cowards..

How can you conquer us but you speak our language in your palace? How you conquered us but you practice our religion? How did you conquer us but you practice our artistry? How did you conquer us but heads of your kings is not buried on your soil but on ours? How did you conquer us and you can't explain the presence of foreigners and their lexicon in your monarchy?

Moorish:
I think Ifa cosmology and our indigenous beliefs are highly underrated. Imagine if we were never conquered by Britain? And We had our own calendar system, we developed indigenous tech and architectural styles etc

I feel like most Africans are soulless. We do not create anything new, except in the arts. We have no indigenous philosophy or religious creeds we adhere to. Imagine if instead of churches we had our own indigenous corpus, veneration of our ancestors, arts, reverence for our lands etc the Monies spent on Jewish and Arab religions would have been channeled towards a Yoruba agenda. This would have spurned all kinds of art, crafts, architecture and civilizations

I am also abit confused because while I want to further Yoruba civilization, I am also always filled with pride whenever I see the cultural influence Nigeria has in Africa, from our music to movies etc

So I think the Nigerian project, although it suppresses our indigenous nationalities, it also gives us more influence on the world stage

Do you agree olu ?

I agree with you totally but the problem is that IFA divination through some practioners had made a lot to loose faith in it even if people still believed in its concept. As far as I am concerned, there are no difference among some IFA practitioners, some Pastors and Alfas because they demand from people, what such cannot provide. This is the first problem of inconsistency by these diviners. And again, Nigeria will not allow Yoruba to grow and develop in the areas, you mentioned. In fact, it was God that encouraged professors such as Akinwumi Ishola (deceased), Wande Abimbola, Bade Ajuwon, and others who had written over
We got about 50 items on our bibliography to make sure IFA divination became part of the UNESCO's masterpiece of the oral and intangible heritage. Today, IFA is known worldwide,when oral and intangible heritage is mentioned. In truth, Yoruba will always be better of as a nation on her own without being in Nigeria. The population is there,the productivity to excel is achievable, man power is available etc. Lastly, British didn't conquer Yorubas but Kiriji war made Britain came in as a mediator and eventually seizing power through back door. Even during their years of stay ,Yorubas were the ones that made leave Nigeria.

Olu317:
I agree with you totally but the problem is that IFA divination through some practioners had made a lot to loose faith in it even if people still believed in its concept. As far as I am concerned, there are no difference among some IFA practitioners, some Pastors and Alfas because they demand from people, what such cannot provide. This is the first problem of inconsistency by these diviners. And again, Nigeria will not allow Yoruba to grow and develop in the areas, you mentioned. In fact, it was God that encouraged professors such as Akinwumi Ishola (deceased), Wande Abimbola, Bade Ajuwon, and others who had written over
We got about 50 items on our bibliography to make sure IFA divination became part of the UNESCO's masterpiece of the oral and intangible heritage. Today, IFA is known worldwide,when oral and intangible heritage is mentioned. In truth, Yoruba will always be better of as a nation on her own without being in Nigeria. The population is there,the productivity to excel is achievable, man power is available etc. Lastly, British didn't conquer Yorubas but Kiriji war made Britain came in as a mediator and eventually seizing power through back door. Even during their years of stay ,Yorubas were the ones that made leave Nigeria.

So Yorubas are the ones who made the Brits leave? How did they do that?

davidnazee:
It’s a lie jor.. stop deceiving yourself..
anyways here is research from your fellow Yoruba brother..

“The origin of the Benin and Yoruba empires of old have come to the fore and they have been subject of intense debate.
No doubt the origins of the two empires are obscure being deeply buried in legend and mythology and it is not easy to say what amount of history or the amount of embellished history they contain. In truth these traditions which on the surface try to account for the origin of these empires are perhaps little more than ideological chatters legitimizing the political systems, traditions, cultures, etc. of the people. This general position not withstanding, it is worthy of note that the Benin through their well renowned Arts and Craft recorded their history and event in addition to the account of the guild of oral recorders. The most contentious of this debate for now, however, is the Benin-Ife historical connection.

Many historians and social anthropologists especially the Yoruba historians have been greatly impressed by the tradition that the Yoruba Kingdom fathered the second Benin empire. According to Prof. A.B.Aderibigbe, "obviously there is an attempt in this story to gloss over what in fact was an alien imposition." Along the same line, Prof Michael Growder said that this tradition could be "a convenient legend to disguise what in fact was a conquest by the Oduduwa party".

Here however, the following points are worthy of note: First the Ife-Benin connection has been vigorously questioned by Prof. A.F.C. Ryder. He had pointed out that this tradition which seeks to connect Benin with Ife is suspect. He argues that throughout four centuries of contact between Benin and various European nations, in particular Portugal, there was no hint or reference to this relationship between the two empires. The tradition was not mentioned or recorded by any writer until after the British occupation of Benin in 1897. He also pointed out that the city of Ife is believed to be younger than Benin and therefore could not have fathered the second Benin Empire.

Second, according to Prof Ryder, by 1485 Benin was an impressive and large city. Judging by the evidence of European visitors, it was perhaps the largest and most impressive city which the Portuguese saw along the west coast of Africa. Recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built probably not before the first decade of the 16th century while the capital of old Oyo, Yatenga, was built much later. This would seem to show that the complex political system of the Yoruba which the Benin Kingdom is believed to have descended must have originated much later than the Benin Kingdom.

Third, much of the evidence which is believed to corroborate the claims made in the traditions comes from enthnohistory, that is, historical speculations based on assumed logical sequence of development in the political system. This is most unreliable.

By the 15th Century, the Benin Kingdom had achieved the height of its greatness. It remained the most powerful and the largest Kingdom in the forest region of West Africa until about the end of the first half of the 17 century. During these two centuries of its ascendancy Benin empire stretched as far west as Lagos, Badagry and Whyidah (Dahomey). On the north-west it stretched as far as Ekiti, Akure and Owo. Towards the north, it stretched to Ishan Country and the southern position of Idah. Finally on the east it incorporated at various times various portions of Ika-Ibo and as far as the River Niger.

Prof. Biobaku has suggested that the eastern fringe of what is now Yorubaland was in pre-Yoruba days thinly inhabited by the ancestors of the modern Benin people, a people which he called the Efa. And if recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built not before the first decade of the 16th century thereby making it to be younger than Benin”

You can lie oo how could you compare Yoruba race that has a clothing culture for thousands of years smelting iron making glass with bunch of wrapper ties primitive forest people ..

To truly get scope of what things looked like in the forest and coast you had to read the works of those that travelled and lived with the peoples that occupy lands between the latitudes at the coast and the latitudes at Lokoja. The lands are inclusive of Yoruba, Nupe, Bariba, Igala, Etsako, Edo, Urhobo, Isoko, Itsekiri, Ijaw, Ogoni, Efik, Ibibio, Kalabari, Ibo, Ika, Agbor. The works of authors to read will be like The Landers Brothers, William Bascom, Leo Frobenius, G.T.Basden. In addition we must visit the neighbouring ethnics and listen to their history and beginnings. Where is Ijaw roots, where is Itsekiri roots, where is Urhobo roots, where is Igala roots, Where is Bariba roots, Nupe, Ika and so on? Their stories will tell us a lot about the position of Ife and Benin. We already know Onitsha is from Benin after their ancestors were first in Ife. Same for Itsekiri, Ife is the root, Benin is just passage. Ijaw claim direct root from Ife.

In fact G.T. Basden came to live amongst and study the Ibos. He entered their territory through the swampy forest in the Delta and travelled upstream headed to Onitsha armed with a map of Bight of Benin. Some of the maps we have already seen here. He could not find a match between the hand drawn maps and land markers or for that matter people...he dismissed the maps as reports and conjectures! That is a hearsay from someone narrating what is not factual.

This is how we must treat the Edo maps and reports of the so called expanse from Cameroon to Senegal.

If the author reports Benin but has no knowledge of Ife, how then does Benin become largest? Largest in comparison to what? Those who gave accounts from their personal experiences in the two places are credible ones and their views to be adopted.

Leo Frobenius wrote about arts in Ife and Benin, he had seen both works. William Bascom had visited and learnt sbout those two places. Their views therefore tell of the cultural and historic values for both. Olfert Dapper was in Benin but never went anywhere else but his impression has become the motive for the Benin is greater than Ife. So wee understsnd the difficult position the Edos find themselves and why they have no material beside the writings of Europeans to support their claims. We then wonder if their greatness is relevant only in reference to European writers.




From GT Basden frustrations with infatuations drawn on maps.

highest percentage of naked people..

Olu317:
I agree with you totally but the problem is that IFA divination through some practioners had made a lot to loose faith in it even if people still believed in its concept. As far as I am concerned, there are no difference among some IFA practitioners, some Pastors and Alfas because they demand from people, what such cannot provide. This is the first problem of inconsistency by these diviners. And again, Nigeria will not allow Yoruba to grow and develop in the areas, you mentioned. In fact, it was God that encouraged professors such as Akinwumi Ishola (deceased), Wande Abimbola, Bade Ajuwon, and others who had written over
We got about 50 items on our bibliography to make sure IFA divination became part of the UNESCO's masterpiece of the oral and intangible heritage. Today, IFA is known worldwide,when oral and intangible heritage is mentioned. In truth, Yoruba will always be better of as a nation on her own without being in Nigeria. The population is there,the productivity to excel is achievable, man power is available etc. Lastly, British didn't conquer Yorubas but Kiriji war made Britain came in as a mediator and eventually seizing power through back door. Even during their years of stay ,Yorubas were the ones that made leave Nigeria.

ORUNMILA MASTER PHILOSOPHER..GREATEST GENIUS EVER WALKED ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zsq3FSMof8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VFXbMxyyS0



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrrpo4mxFkI

Eri, the Igbo ancestor was a sky king

Ogiso, Benin leadership were sky kings

The orisa’s came from the sky

It is highly probable and incontrovertible proof that ife is the source of all southern Nigerian cultures because only ife expounded on these myths the most

All claim sky kings so there must be a common source of the myths

And from the level of Ifa scholarship from ife, I can conclude that ife is the source

Olu317:
I agree with you totally but the problem is that IFA divination through some practioners had made a lot to loose faith in it even if people still believed in its concept. As far as I am concerned, there are no difference among some IFA practitioners, some Pastors and Alfas because they demand from people, what such cannot provide. This is the first problem of inconsistency by these diviners. And again, Nigeria will not allow Yoruba to grow and develop in the areas, you mentioned. In fact, it was God that encouraged professors such as Akinwumi Ishola (deceased), Wande Abimbola, Bade Ajuwon, and others who had written over
We got about 50 items on our bibliography to make sure IFA divination became part of the UNESCO's masterpiece of the oral and intangible heritage. Today, IFA is known worldwide,when oral and intangible heritage is mentioned. In truth, Yoruba will always be better of as a nation on her own without being in Nigeria. The population is there,the productivity to excel is achievable, man power is available etc. Lastly, British didn't conquer Yorubas but Kiriji war made Britain came in as a mediator and eventually seizing power through back door. Even during their years of stay ,Yorubas were the ones that made leave Nigeria.

I also sometimes appreciate the diversity in southern Nigerian cultures especially through the music

For that reason alone, I am somehow open to the idea of Nigeria

Odua nation is also enticing to me, but it will take a war for Nigeria to break up, and I do not want that

I believe we can still further Yoruba civilization while also being a part of Nigeria

And Ifa is the source. We need to create new civilizations that reflect Yoruba

Obalufon:
ORUNMILA MASTER PHILOSOPHER..GREATEST GENIUS EVER WALKED ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH

I am deeply interested in Ifa. Knowing my ori (destiny) will be interesting

For now I channel all my prayers to eledumare

I also pray to Ogun too

I feel at peace in Ifa

KingSango:
So Yorubas are the ones who made the Brits leave? How did they do that?

Yeah, Yoruba were the ones that frustrated the Brits. Yes, because, Williams who was nominated to the Legislative Council, serving as a member from October 1901, until his death in 1915. In 1903 there was a crisis over the payment of the tolls that were collected from traders by native rulers, although Europeans were exempted. The alternative was to replace the tolls by a subsidy. Governor William MacGregor requested views from Williams, Charles Joseph George and
Obadiah Johnson as indigenous opinion leaders. All were in favour of retaining the tolls to avoid upsetting the rulers. In 1903 governor MacGregor nominated Williams for a knighthood, but his recommendation was turned down. In 1904 Williams moved that "the present boundary between the Colony and Protectorate of Southern Nigeria and the Protectorate of Northern Nigeria be re-adjusted by bringing the southern portion into Southern Nigeria, so that the entire tribes of the Yoruba-speaking people should be under one and the same administration". Sir Frederick Lugard wickedly opposed this proposal on the grounds of administrative convenience, and the eventual decision largely followed his beliefs. Many enlightened set of Yorubas in England( who were in college) , and in Nigeria frustrated, argued, and disobeyed the Brits when Niger- Area, was formed as Nigeria . And for this reason, Yorubas, were divided into Northern and southern by Lord Lugard to frustrate Yorubas. Around 1953, Yoruba told the Parliament through their representative known as Anthony Enahoro and seconded by Obafemi Awolowo, for independence,which was done by the Action group but denied. And in 1958, which was successful was moved by Chief Remilekun Fani-Kayode and Nigeria got her independence, after which, the Brits had no choice but to heed such call.

Proudly Omo Yoruba.

Moorish:
I also sometimes appreciate the diversity in southern Nigerian cultures especially through the music

For that reason alone, I am somehow open to the idea of Nigeria

Odua nation is also enticing to me, but it will take a war for Nigeria to break up, and I do not want that

I believe we can still further Yoruba civilization while also being a part of Nigeria

And Ifa is the source. We need to create new civilizations that reflect Yoruba

IFA practices are not in conformity with Non Yorubas, especially in the Northern Nigeria that are do not share same ideology. Even, with other groups in Southern Nigeria because of language difference. I truthfully believed, Yoruba language can't thrive successfully within Nigeria ( personal opinion of mine). Although, this is the reality .

Olu317:
Yeah, Yoruba were the ones that frustrated the Brits. Yes, because, Williams who was nominated to the Legislative Council, serving as a member from October 1901, until his death in 1915. In 1903 there was a crisis over the payment of the tolls that were collected from traders by native rulers, although Europeans were exempted. The alternative was to replace the tolls by a subsidy. Governor William MacGregor requested views from Williams, Charles Joseph George and
Obadiah Johnson as indigenous opinion leaders. All were in favour of retaining the tolls to avoid upsetting the rulers. In 1903 governor MacGregor nominated Williams for a knighthood, but his recommendation was turned down. In 1904 Williams moved that "the present boundary between the Colony and Protectorate of Southern Nigeria and the Protectorate of Northern Nigeria be re-adjusted by bringing the southern portion into Southern Nigeria, so that the entire tribes of the Yoruba-speaking people should be under one and the same administration". Sir Frederick Lugard wickedly opposed this proposal on the grounds of administrative convenience, and the eventual decision largely followed his beliefs. Many enlightened set of Yorubas in England( who were in college) , and in Nigeria frustrated, argued, and disobeyed the Brits when Niger- Area, was formed as Nigeria . And for this reason, Yorubas, were divided into Northern and southern by Lord Lugard to frustrate Yorubas. Around 1953, Yoruba told the Parliament through their representative known as Anthony Enahoro and seconded by Obafemi Awolowo, for independence,which was done by the Action group but denied. And in 1958, which was successful was moved by Chief Remilekun Fani-Kayode and Nigeria got her independence, after which, the Brits had no choice but to heed such call.

Proudly Omo Yoruba.

So Anthony Enahoro was a Yoruba representative?

davidnazee:
So Anthony Enahoro was a Yoruba representative?

He was member of Action Group which was the Egbe Omo Oduduwa Reformed.

MetaPhysical:
He was member of Action Group which was the Egbe Omo Oduduwa Reformed.

Yoruba race is a mockery....you guys slways peddle with lies and hate the truth ....its not this generation fault anyway it was those of awolowo and his co members you all are just trying to cover up thier lies with another lies bring another bigger lies