₦airaland Forum

Y0ruba:
OK, since that is the case, you’re then stuck with agreeing that since Owo, Akure, Ondo crushed your army for life when they had access to equal weaponry, then the Yoruba of eastern parts were much smarter & intelligent than you.

If all it took was equal weaponry to dislodge your economic strongholds, crush your army forever & have Ogedengbe in your terriroties plundering then you were never a ‘power house’ in the first place.

Executing a war with Superior weaponry against basic arsenal would be tagged a War Crime in this day & age. Wars are now fought with equal weaponry except in the case of deterence.

Be smarter.

There was absolutely nothing smart about the yorubas. Being able to negotiate access to arms and use them to strengthen formidable armies against opponents is where the real smartness lies and the Edos more than sufficiently had that. That the yorubas only got hold of guns after several centuries only showed how much behind time they were - this also explains why Yoruba was a rich market for harvesting slaves by slave merchants. Your people were just too damn docile!

It's utterly ridiculous when you want to use modern day rules to explain happenings of the past. Rules of engagement in wartime is relatively a new invention. If that is what you want to now hang on, then I want to know how you would explain other battles fought across Europe in the middle ages.
It was basically a case of the stronger man takes the day and for several centuries, Bini was the stronger man, in fact arguably the strongest man on the battlefield.

Meanwhile, Benin empire outlived the Oyo empire for more than 70 years.

Tell us what led to the collapse of the Oyo empire. Because even in it's hay days, they were disgraced when they tried recapturing Ilorin.

steveosaz:
The Ogiso dynasty is well alluded to by not only the Edos, but even our brothers; the Itsekiri and Urhobo. That's exactly the same way many, including the Bini's, the Alaafin of Oyo and so many others agree that Ooni was a houseboy in Oduduwa's court. How that houseboy eventually became a king is the dubious mystery of the yorubas. But not only did a slave become a king(taboo), he was made to appear as the greatest of Yoruba kings, even ahead of the Alaafin who is a direct Oduduwa son. This mystery is what the yorubas have decided to use their broom to sweep under the carpet.

Many would have respected you more had you placed ooni in his rightful place, but you people allowed politics to overshadow truth by bringing an impostor, a stranger and worse off a slave to the elevation of being the number one monarch in yorubaland. Now you are here carrying the burden of defending that fraud.

Even when the ignorantly mischievous Alake of Egbaland Adedotun Gbadebo decided to stoke the fire of controversy the other day by coming out with a shitty arrangements of Yoruba kings where he had them arranged thus; Ooni, Alaafin, Oba of Benin, Alake, Awujale. While Benin palace quickly retorted that Omo n'oba is not a Yoruba king, it was even more embarrassing as an angry Awujale vehemently dismissed the Alake as an ignorant element who was skewing history stating that even if such a list ever existed anywhere, Alake should never feature on such a list being that Alake is the head of Ake and not the entire Egbas which is an aberration and that Ake is one of the smallest and youngest quarters of Egbaland. He stressed that Alake should be Alake of Ake and not of Egbaland and that the confusion was brought about by Awolowo's dubious politics of usurping traditional authorities using stooges who are usually junior kings.

Recently, another Afonja/Alimi wanted to play out Again when the Oluwo of Iwo said he was going to drop the title of Oba and take that of emir. Tomorrow, Yoruba history manufacturers would deny these things. Dishonorable elements.

You do not read, this is the problem you have.

Have you looked at the colonial records and seen what your own kigs told the British?

Have you looked & found that all kings derived from Oduduwa/Oranmiyan regarded themselves as relatives and held meetings periodically before colonialists?

Have you looked and learnt that the kings have a tradition where upon death, material belongings of their dead are shared amongst the others who are alive? Bini received such and also gave in return.

Have you looked and learned that this meeting called ‘Pelu-Pelu’ used to be held in Ile-Ife but Oba Bini was the only one who could not come into Ife, only parts od his corpse can be brought in not his living self. And did you know your present king observed this same tradition during his last visit? - he had gotten to Ife the day before but had to stay outside the walls of Ile-Ife while some of his chiefs where in the palace & environs. It was Obalufe who went to lead his convoy in the next morning. I was there and part of the whole thing.

Have you also looked and learnt that the British noticed the sitting arrangements of this king at every function and recorded it? The Ooni sat in the centre while other kings flanked him on the right and left forming ‘n’ shape?

Have you looked and learnt that it was this sitting arrangement which preceded the British but which the British recorded that informed the Alake’s statement?

Have you looked and learnt that there are 3 egba groups, Ake, Agura and Agbeyin/Oke Ona? And also are you aware each group has a paramount king but the Alake is the leader of all these paramount kings?

Are you also aware the present Awujale is a revisionist like your king and his records of hstory are nor accepted by his own people?

When and if you ever step foot in the national archives, Ibadan see:

Roshdale, F., the Ife district officer in Oyo province.

The district officer in Bini at the same time, I can’t recall his name right now.

Y0ruba:
Uncle

1. Both your sources were written by Yoruba men. When do you intend to start posting articles written by those of Bini origins? Can’t find any? Would you take offense if non-diplomatic Yoruba attacked you by saying ‘Binis depend on Yoruba for everything including sources for their own history?’ Just kidding

2. If you took a deep breath and read the page you screenshot & and the text you posted, you would see that the towns Bini invaded before in Ekiti are to the south. Apart from those added during state creation, there are 16 kingdoms in Ekiti, Bini invaded about 6. If you look at present day Ondo state, there are several towns in between Bini & Ondo town, several towns between Bini & Akure town. All sources are quiet about Bini’s presence in the go-between towns. This can be interpreted to mean they were not conquered. Do you not think this would make Bini’s grip on Ondo town & Akure town difficult to sustain?

3. Both papers including the one from Prof. Akintoye agree that Bini’s invasion was not for conquest or empire building. It was rather to protect Bini’s long distance traders & consequently Bini’s economic interest as can be seen with Lagos when Bini traders were harrassed & soldiers were sent from Bini to protect them along the coast in Lagos. Bini was not expanding an empire, it was, like the present day USA protecting her economic interests & citizens by planting military bases on places of interest.

4. All articles used so far agreed that Bini’s activities were limited to south of Ekiti, Ondo town [not the entire Ondo state] & Akure town. All the articles also agreed that these towns revolted, murdered Bini traders & a war of re-invasion to quel revolt broke out.

5. All articles agreed that Bini lost control of the towns, attempted to take them back but failed. Prof Akitoye who used several sources mostly from Europeans [see footnotes in the document] stated that the introduction of guns into the interior changed the game & Bini army was defeated in southern Ekiti, Ondo town & Akure.

6. This goes to show that, like Ijebu controlled the trade on the coastal town of Lagos, Bini also controlled trade in the coast and as a result monopolized guns which the Bini army used to achieve her several invasions until her previous victims laid hands on guns too.

7. In essence Bini’s invasion was an unequal warfare. Bini brought guns to a bow, arrow, spear & machete fight. Nothing was special about Bini army. Kind of like how Bini used guns & canons against Bini kingdom when Bini ised basic war instruments during the punitive expedition. If Bini had guns & cannons too, it would have been different. Lagos had & used guns against Britain at a war that lasted for several days until a mishap occured in the Lagos camp with gunpowder catching on fire and ruining everything. In one word, Bini army fought a war against a disadvantaged group.

8. While we Yoruba agree that your Bini army invaded parts of Eastern Yorubaland. We Yoruba are stating that [based on facts posted by you & us] that your invasion was limited to 6 towns in south Ekiti, Ondo town & Akure town. We are also saying that you had guns to fight swords, bow, arrow & spear. We are also saying that when the Ondo, Ekiti & Akure people had guns they repelled you and crushed your army for life.

Please can u give me an actual list of all the 16 kingdoms that existed in eastern Yoruba at that time and I will give u detailed accounts of how Benin conquered each of them, executed their native rulers and set up Benin administrators..

While u do that please bear in mind that Benin conquered whole of Ekiti land.. that account is readily available for u to read if u wish..

steveosaz:
There was absolutely nothing smart about the yorubas. Being able to negotiate access to arms and use them to strengthen formidable armies against opponents is where the real smartness lies and the Edos more than sufficiently had that. That the yorubas only got hold of guns after several centuries only showed how much behind time they were - this also explains why Yoruba was a rich market for harvesting slaves by slave merchants. Your people were just too damn docile!

It's utterly ridiculous when you want to use modern day rules to explain happenings of the past. Rules of engagement in wartime is relatively a new invention. If that is what you want to now hang on, then I want to know how you would explain other battles fought across Europe in the middle ages.
It was basically a case of the stronger man takes the day and for several centuries, Bini was the stronger man, in fact arguably the strongest man on the battlefield.



Meanwhile, Benin empire outlived the Oyo empire for more than 70 years.

Tell us what led to the collapse of the Oyo empire. Because even in it's hay days, they were disgraced when they tried recapturing Ilorin.

Benin was never an empire is a little kingdom...

Y0ruba:
You do not read, this is the problem you have.

Have you looked at the colonial records and seen what your own kigs told the British?

Have you looked at found that all kings derived from Oduduwa/Oranmiyan regarded themselves as relatives and help meetings periodically before colonialists?

Have you looked and learnt that the kings have a tradition where upon death, material belongings of their dead are shared amongst the others who are alive? Bini received such and also gave in return.

Have you looked and learned that this meeting called ‘Pelu-Pelu’ used to be held in Ile-Ife but Oba Bini was the only one who could not come into Ife, only parts od his corpse can be brought in not his living self. And did you know your present king observed this same tradition during his last visit? - he had gotten to Ife the day before but had to stay outside the walls of Ile-Ife while some of his chiefs where in the palace & environs. It was Obalufe who went to lead his convoy in the next morning. I was there and part of the whole thing.

Have you also looked and learnt that the British noticed the sitting arrangements of this king at every function and recorded it? The Ooni sat in the centre while other kings flanked him on the right and left forming ‘n’ shape?

Have you looked and learnt that it was this sitting arrangement which preceded the British but which the British recorded that informed the Alake’s statement?

Have you looked and learnt that there are 3 egba groups, Ake, Agura and Agbeyin/Oke Ona? And also are you aware each group has a paramount king but the Alake is the leader of all these paramount kings?

Are you also aware the present Awujale is a revisionist like your king and his records of hstory are nor accepted by his own people?

Are you also aware the Alake is a very rugged pally who has been on deck for many decades?

When and if you ever step foot in the national archives, Ibadan see:

Roshdale, F., the Ife district officer in Oyo province.

The district officer in Bini at the same time, I can’t recall his name right now.

Its you who is clearly doing selective revisionism.

Isn't it rather strange that you seem not to be aware that the British operated with the instrumentality of indirect rule which made it necessary for them to impose stooges as kings and also rejig arrangements of traditional societies.

Kings were deposed all over Nigeria by the Brits and those who showed loyalty were allowed to remain.

Your type of selective historians would always regard the Awujale as a revisionist, but the Awujale made solid points and several instances where he had made clarification on the Alake issue with the Alake present and strangely, the Alake never issued a rejoinder.

Where there ever any records of traditional rulers organizing meetings amongst themselves prior to the coming of the Brits?

The British set up a system that worked for them while dubious politicians coming after them perpetuated those unhealthy practices. Awolowo was particularly notorious for such, to the extent of taking it to the issue of olu of warri.

The point still remains, there has never been any list of hierarchy of Yoruba kings. The Alake is dubious and a fraud and is clearly the one revising history. Awujale stated his position properly. I'm sure, the Alaafin would be happy to see him placed second on some list written under a mango three.

Read for yourself and see the Awujale totally destroy the Alake. http://punchng.com/alake-is-a-junior-king-in-yorubaland-awujale/

steveosaz:
There was absolutely nothing smart about the yorubas. Being able to negotiate access to arms and use them to strengthen formidable armies against opponents is where the real smartness lies and the Edos more than sufficiently had that. That the yorubas only got hold of guns after several centuries only showed how much behind time they were - this also explains why Yoruba was a rich market for harvesting slaves by slave merchants. Your people were just too damn docile!

It's utterly ridiculous when you want to use modern day rules to explain happenings of the past. Rules of engagement in wartime is relatively a new invention. If that is what you want to now hang on, then I want to know how you would explain other battles fought across Europe in the middle ages.
It was basically a case of the stronger man takes the day and for several centuries, Bini was the stronger man, in fact arguably the strongest man on the battlefield.

Benin was never an empire is a little kingdom...

Meanwhile, Benin empire outlived the Oyo empire for more than 70 years.

Tell us what led to the collapse of the Oyo empire. Because even in it's hay days, they were disgraced when they tried recapturing Ilorin.

Benin was never an Empire never grow to be come and empire.. is a kingdom

steveosaz:
There was absolutely nothing smart about the yorubas. Being able to negotiate access to arms and use them to strengthen formidable armies against opponents is where the real smartness lies and the Edos more than sufficiently had that. That the yorubas only got hold of guns after several centuries only showed how much behind time they were - this also explains why Yoruba was a rich market for harvesting slaves by slave merchants. Your people were just too damn docile!

It's utterly ridiculous when you want to use modern day rules to explain happenings of the past. Rules of engagement in wartime is relatively a new invention. If that is what you want to now hang on, then I want to know how you would explain other battles fought across Europe in the middle ages.
It was basically a case of the stronger man takes the day and for several centuries, Bini was the stronger man, in fact arguably the strongest man on the battlefield.

Meanwhile, Benin empire outlived the Oyo empire for more than 70 years.

Tell us what led to the collapse of the Oyo empire. Because even in it's hay days, they were disgraced when they tried recapturing Ilorin.

Obalufon:
Benin was never an Empire never grow to be come and empire.. is a kingdom

Obalufon, please stop distorting my comments. In quoting my comment, you crookedly sneaked in the line that "Benin was never and empire, but a little kingdom" thereby creating the impression that I wrote that. If you don't know how to use NL, ask for help.

Meanwhile, Benin was very much an empire. Argue with your ancestors.

steveosaz:
There was absolutely nothing smart about the yorubas. Being able to negotiate access to arms and use them to strengthen formidable armies against opponents is where the real smartness lies[/b]and the Edos more than sufficiently had that. That the yorubas only got hold of guns after several centuries only showed how much behind time they were - this also explains why Yoruba was a rich market for harvesting slaves by slave merchants. Your people were just too damn docile!

[b]It's utterly ridiculous when you want to use modern day rules to explain happenings of the past. Rules of engagement in wartime is relatively a new invention. If that is what you want to now hang on, then I want to know how you would explain other battles fought across Europe in the middle ages.
It was basically a case of the stronger man takes the day and for several centuries, Bini was the stronger man, in fact arguably the strongest man on the battlefield.

Meanwhile, Benin empire outlived the Oyo empire for more than 70 years.

Tell us what led to the collapse of the Oyo empire. Because even in it's hay days, they were disgraced when they tried recapturing Ilorin.

1. If Bini were indeed smart, they would retain their hold on Ondo, Akure, Owo when access to superior weapons became balanced. I mean a true test of powerhouse is when valour is shown even in the face of balance of power. How are you a power house when they you bullied crushed your entire army for life with their first access to guns? Bini were & are still not a smart set of people. You & your ilks here keep displaying that.

2. Indeed, it is ridiculous that you want to say a wars are fought and won with superior firepower & I had to tap your brain back to the wars of today. You make careless statements and it is part of your low level of intellect.

3. Bini outlived? Bini wey nor fight half of wars wey Oyo fight not even reach capital of Oyo in size. Talking about outlive . Your junior brother travel pass you & took risks more than you. You hide for corner come dey talk outlive when your younger brother dwarfed you in all things? What a shame.

Ilorin was a Yoruba affair.

- Alimi’s son born of a Fulani never ascended the throne. The son’s descendants are struggling to be allowed to get on that throne till today.

- Alimi’s sons who now rotate the throne were born of a Yoruba woman from Iseyin.

- Aole wanted Afonja to attack Apomu, an Ife land. This was a taboo & all his chiefs lost respect for him because of it. Aole took it further and ordered that Aole attack his own mother’s town & that evaporated the little respect all his chiefs had for him.

- Afonja’s father was an Igbomina man. Afonja then decided to start a town in the outskirts of his father’s Igbomina hometown & be a king rather than be a subject under a disrespected king.

- Afonja built Ilorin & everyone went there to start a new life. Mostly people of Oyo and then the Hausa, Kanike & Fulani slaves spread across present day Yorubaland.

- Afonja became power-drunk and alienated all his Yoruba co-conspirators who wanted Aole’s power to shrink.

- Alimi came into the picture & they became best buddies. Alimi died & his son who was Yoruba on the mother’s side wanted to rule. He found ready allies in those Afonja alienated while some like Solagberu stood aloof.

- Abdusalam took power & opened doors to more Oyo people to settle in Ilorin. This is why Ilorin is highly populated by those who have their family compounds to Oyo.

- Afonja’s example of starting a town influenced other Kings of Western Yorubaland and they all began to decalre independence.

- Subsequent Alaafins wanted to revert to the old patterns but these Yoruba kings who have enjoyed certain degree of autonomy & what came with did not wat to go back under anyone, not even the Alaafin.

- And in order to avoid a confrontation, these kings agreed to go to war against Ilorin in support of Alaafin but they also sent support to Ilorin which helped in the defeat & death of a few Alaafin.

- Some Yoruba kings also employed the Ilorin problens to effect the death of their fellow Yoruba kings whom they had scores to settle.

- Prior to the British, everyone regarded Ilorin as a Yoruba town and throne as a Yoruba throne such that Ibadan, Ekiti/Ijesa & Ilorin became the power houses in Yorubaland. In fact, the Ilorin kings exchanged gifts and messages. The Ilorin kings did not dress like muslims until much later. And the Yoruba soldiers who conquered Ilorin army in Osogbo & Okuku/Inisha were largely muslims.

- The British came, grouped Ilorin with the MB then North & that changed the game. Ever since, Ilorin people & Ilorin throne have continued to pursue a religious identity similar to that prevalent in their geo-political space.

- Till today, Ilorin is populated largely by people from old Oyo. And they regard their king as Oba not Emir.

Thus, Ilorin is not lost. It is in the hands of Yoruba who have let religion confused them a bit. When the day of regionalism comes, you will see that Ilorin question will be answered without violence.

Y0ruba:
1. If Bini were indeed smart, they would retain their hold on Ondo, Akure, Owo when access to superior weapons became balanced. I mean a true test of powerhouse is when valour is shown even in the face of balance of power. How are you a power house when they you bullied crushed your entire army for life with their first access to guns? Bini were & are still not a smart set of people. You & your ilks here keep displaying that.

2. Indeed, it is ridiculous that you want to say a wars are fought and won with superior firepower & I had to tap your brain back to the wars of today. You make careless statements and it is part of your low level of intellect.

3. Bini outlived? Bini wey nor fight half of wars wey Oyo fight not even reach capital of Oyo in size. Talking about outlive . Your junior brother travel pass you & took risks more than you. You hide for corner come dey talk outlive when your younger brother dwarfed you in all things? What a shame.

Ilorin was a Yoruba affair.

- Alimi’s son born of a Fulani never ascended the throne. The son’s descendants are struggling to be allowed to get on that throne till today.

- Alimi’s sons who now rotate the throne were born of a Yoruba woman from Iseyin.

- Aole wanted Afonja to attack Apomu, an Ife land. This was a taboo & all his chiefs lost respect for him because of it. Aole took it further and ordered that Aole attack his own mother’s town & that evaporated the little respect all his chiefs had for him.

- Afonja’s father was an Igbomina man. Afonja then decided to start a town in the outskirts of his father’s Igbomina hometown & be a king rather than be a subject under a disrespected king.

- Afonja built Ilorin & everyone went there to start a new life. Mostly people of Oyo and then the Hausa, Kanike & Fulani slaves spread across present day Yorubaland.

- Afonja became power-drunk and alienated all his Yoruba co-conspirators who wanted Aole’s power to shrink.

- Alimi came into the picture & they became best buddies. Alimi died & his son who was Yoruba on the mother’s side wanted to rule. He found ready allies in those Afonja alienated while some like Solagberu stood aloof.

- Abdusalam took power & opened doors to more Oyo people to settle in Ilorin. This is why Ilorin is highly populated by those who have their family compounds to Oyo.

- Afonja’s example of starting a town influenced other Kings of Western Yorubaland and they all began to decalre independence.

- Subsequent Alaafins wanted to revert to the old patterns but these Yoruba kings who have enjoyed certain degree of autonomy & what came with did not wat to go back under anyone, not even the Alaafin.

- And in order to avoid a confrontation, these kings agreed to go to war against Ilorin in support of Alaafin but they also sent support to Ilorin which helped in the defeat & death of a few Alaafin.

- Some Yoruba kings also employed the Ilorin problens to effect the death of their fellow Yoruba kings whom they had scores to settle.

- Prior to the British, everyone regarded Ilorin as a Yoruba town and throne as a Yoruba throne such that Ibadan, Ekiti/Ijesa & Ilorin became the power houses in Yorubaland. In fact, the Ilorin kings exchanged gifts and messages. The Ilorin kings did not dress like muslims until much later. And the Yoruba soldiers who conquered Ilorin army in Osogbo & Okuku/Inisha were largely muslims.

- The British came, grouped Ilorin with the MB then North & that changed the game. Ever since, Ilorin people & Ilorin throne have continued to pursue a religious identity similar to that prevalent in their geo-political space.

- Till today, Ilorin is populated largely by people from old Oyo. And they regard their king as Oba not Emir.

Thus, Ilorin is not lost. It is in the hands of Yoruba who have let religion confused them a bit. When the day of regionalism comes, you will see that Ilorin question will be answered without violence.

If you like keep shouting and ranting.. Benin is still regarded as a mightier kingdom than Oyo.. You keep shouting Oyo, Oyo only ruled over its fellow Yoruba kingdoms. Benin on the other hand ruled over different kingdoms and people..
Benin started expanding and conquering its neigbors without the use of fire arms.. Guns made us more powerful but before that we had already started conquering Yoruba lands..

In pre-colonial times there was no states separation.. Most of Eastern Yoruba was regarded as Ekiti land and Great Benin conquered all of it..
Many of your rulers there today were set up by Benin Kingdom..

You can keep lying.. Google is a friend to everybody and all Benin conquest is available there and it doesn't favor Yoruba..

steveosaz:
Its you who is clearly doing selective revisionism.

Isn't it rather strange that you seem not to be aware that the British operated with the instrumentality of indirect rule which made it necessary for them to impose stooges as kings and also rejig arrangements of traditional societies.

Kings were deposed all over Nigeria by the Brits and those who showed loyalty were allowed to remain.

Your type of selective historians would always regard the Awujale as a revisionist, but the Awujale made solid points and several instances where he had made clarification on the Alake issue with the Alake present and strangely, the Alake never issued a rejoinder.

Where there ever any records of traditional rulers organizing meetings amongst themselves prior to the coming of the Brits?

The British set up a system that worked for them while dubious politicians coming after them perpetuated those unhealthy practices. Awolowo was particularly notorious for such, to the extent of taking it to the issue of olu of warri.

The point still remains, there has never been any list of hierarchy of Yoruba kings. The Alake is dubious and a fraud and is clearly the one revising history. Awujale stated his position properly. I'm sure, the Alaafin would be happy to see him placed second on some list written under a mango three.

Read for yourself and see the Awujale totally destroy the Alake. http://punchng.com/alake-is-a-junior-king-in-yorubaland-awujale/

Nobody rejigged. They operated what kings, including your own king told them before they implemented the NA system & subsequent regional system.

steveosaz:
Obalufon, please stop distorting my comments. In quoting my comment, you crookedly sneaked in the line that "Benin was never and empire, but a little kingdom" thereby creating the impression that I wrote that. If you don't know how to use NL, ask for help.

Meanwhile, Benin was very much an empire. Argue with your ancestors.

Benin was never an empire ....what is the meaning of empire ?...your kingdom didn't reach an empire level or a state level .. Oyo was a great empire oyo ruled over large verse region from Nigeria to upper volta togo ... fulani. hausa, bariba nupe fon Allada abomey , togo...all this region were assimilated into the empire and they were recruited into oyo army some grew in the army to become general ..first generalissimo of Oyo was from portnovo......

davidnazee:
If you like keep shouting and ranting.. Benin is still regarded as a mightier kingdom than Oyo.. You keep shouting Oyo, Oyo only ruled over its fellow Yoruba kingdoms. Benin on the other hand ruled over different kingdoms and people..
Benin started expanding and conquering its neigbors without the use of fire arms.. Guns made us more powerful but before that we had already started conquering Yoruba lands..

I[b]n pre-colonial times there was no states separation.[/b]. Most of Eastern Yoruba was regarded as Ekiti land and Great Benin conquered all of it..
Many of your rulers there today were set up by Benin Kingdom..

You can keep lying.. Google is a friend to everybody and all Benin conquest is available there and it doesn't favor Yoruba..

Bini scholar, relying in google is your greatest undoing. Please go to libraries or buy books and also visit the archive for first hand documents. Google can’t help you. If you’re in Edo, visit the Dept of History, they’ll recommend books and you’ll be able to tell us more about Edo without soundinf stupid with every post. Also, you’ll be able talk about Edo without quoting Yoruba scholars. Olodo, bragging about Google like that is what proper intelligent people depend on

1. I did not know the ethnic group in eastern Ghana, Dahomey, Bariba & Tapa were Yoruba until now.

2. I also did not know Ife, Ijebu, Egba, Ijesa & Ekiti were all Yoruba prior to 19th century until you just sait now.

3. I also did not know Udo, Afemau, Ishan & other towns surrounding Bini were not Edo o.

4. There was no state separation yet most Yoruba towns were regarded as Ekiti? Do you now see why I keep saying you are not smart? I guess there were no state separation yet the Abua, Ikwerre, Ibani, Opobo, Eleme, Okrika, and Kalabari, Etche, Ogba, Ogoni, Engenni, Egbema, Obolo were all regarded as Rivers? Smh.

5. Ever heard of ALara, Ajero, Oloba, Owa Orangun aga & the others who were Oranmiyan’s seniors? The only king you made was Eleko but guess what, Yoruba made your king .



Try very hard again, very hard.

Obalufon:
Benin was never an empire ....what is the meaning of empire ?...your kingdom didn't reach an empire level or a state level .. Oyo was a great empire oyo ruled over large verse region from Nigeria to upper volta togo ... fulani. hausa, bariba nupe fon Allada abomey , togo...all this region were assimilated into the empire and they were recruited into oyo army some grew in the army to become general ..first generalissimo of Oyo was from portnovo......

Which Oyo? Fairy tale Oyo? I said before google is your friend.. Go search for a list of great West African empire.. It list Ghana, Songhai and Mighty Benin Empires and a series of Yoruba kingdoms of which Oyo is the most popular..
All your stories about Oyo cannot be proven so at best it is hearsay.. doesn't hold water.
Benin is described as a mighty Empire and Oyo because it is not known is described at best as a Yoruba kingdom..

Y0ruba:
Bini scholar

1. I did not know the ethnic group in eastern Ghana, Dahomey, Bariba & Tapa were Yoruba until now.

2. I also did not know Ife, Ijebu, Egba, Ijesa & Ekiti were all Yoruba prior to 19th century until you just sait now.

3. I also did not know Udo, Afemau, Ishan & other towns surrounding Bini were not Edo o.

4. There was no state separation yet most Yoruba towns were regarded as Ekiti? Do you now see why I keep saying you are not smart? I guess there were no state separation yet the Abua, Ikwerre, Ibani, Opobo, Eleme, Okrika, and Kalabari, Etche, Ogba, Ogoni, Engenni, Egbema, Obolo were all regarded as Rivers? Smh.

5. Ever heard of ALara, Ajero, Oloba, Owa Orangun aga & the others who were Oranmiyan’s seniors? The only king you made was Eleko but guess what, Yoruba made your king .

Try very hard again, very hard.

You are really one dumb Yoruba man..
Go find out which present Yoruba states where under the Ekiti confederation in pre colonial times.. Ondo, Osun, and present Ekiti states, Benin Kingdom conquered and ruled all of it.
so ALara, Ajero, Oloba, Owa Orangun aga & the others who were Oranmiyan’s seniors are the only kings in Eastern Yoruba abi?

Please carry your mumu go somewhere else.. its is stinking.

davidnazee:
Which Oyo? Fairy tale Oyo? I said before google is your friend.. Go search for a list of great West African empire.. It list Ghana, Songhai and Mighty Benin Empires and a series of Yoruba kingdoms of which Oyo is the most popular..
All your stories about Oyo cannot be proven so at best it is hearsay.. doesn't hold water.
Benin is described as a mighty Empire and Oyo because it is not known is described at best as a Yoruba kingdom..

Are you aware no scholar uses ‘empire’ for Bini, they all refer to it as a Kingdom. While for Oyo all scholars use empire.

I can give you a list of books to prove this, try me.

We can focus on foreign historians, they are neutrals.

davidnazee:
You are really one dumb Yoruba man..
Go find out which present Yoruba states where under the Ekiti confederation in pre colonial times.. Ondo, Osun, and present Ekiti states, Benin Kingdom conquered and ruled all of it.
so ALara, Ajero, Oloba, Owa Orangun aga & the others who were Oranmiyan’s seniors are the only kings in Eastern Yoruba abi?

Please carry your mumu go somewhere else.. its is stinking.

I’m weak

Fam, you is one ‘helluva’ dumbfxxk.

Ekitiparapo was Ijesa, Ife, Ijebu, Imesi. They ganged to fight Ibadan for balance of power. This event happened looooooong after the 6 towns Bini invaded had crushed your army.

So in your olodo mind Bini invaded Ekitiparapo?

Olu317, BabaRamota, Obalufon eyin egbon mi, come & see blockheadedness in full gear. I can’t stopcracking up.

https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mtbu.gif

Y0ruba:
1. If Bini were indeed smart, they would retain their hold on Ondo, Akure, Owo when access to superior weapons became balanced. I mean a true test of powerhouse is when valour is shown even in the face of balance of power. How are you a power house when they you bullied crushed your entire army for life with their first access to guns? Bini were & are still not a smart set of people. You & your ilks here keep displaying that.

2. Indeed, it is ridiculous that you want to say a wars are fought and won with superior firepower & I had to tap your brain back to the wars of today. You make careless statements and it is part of your low level of intellect.

3. Bini outlived? Bini wey nor fight half of wars wey Oyo fight not even reach capital of Oyo in size. Talking about outlive . Your junior brother travel pass you & took risks more than you. You hide for corner come dey talk outlive when your younger brother dwarfed you in all things? What a shame.

Ilorin was a Yoruba affair.

- Alimi’s son born of a Fulani never ascended the throne. The son’s descendants are struggling to be allowed to get on that throne till today.

- Alimi's sons who now rotate the throne were born of a Yoruba woman from Iseyin.

- Aole wanted Afonja to attack Apomu, an Ife land. This was a taboo & all his chiefs lost respect for him because of it. Aole took it further and ordered that Aole attack his own mother’s town & that evaporated the little respect all his chiefs had for him.

- Afonja’s father was an Igbomina man. Afonja then decided to start a town in the outskirts of his father’s Igbomina hometown & be a king rather than be a subject under a disrespected king.

- Afonja built Ilorin & everyone went there to start a new life. Mostly people of Oyo and then the Hausa, Kanike & Fulani slaves spread across present day Yorubaland.

- Afonja became power-drunk and alienated all his Yoruba co-conspirators who wanted Aole’s power to shrink.

- Alimi came into the picture & they became best buddies. Alimi died & his son who was Yoruba on the mother’s side wanted to rule. He found ready allies in those Afonja alienated while some like Solagberu stood aloof.

- Abdusalam took power & opened doors to more Oyo people to settle in Ilorin. This is why Ilorin is highly populated by those who have their family compounds to Oyo.

- Afonja’s example of starting a town influenced other Kings of Western Yorubaland and they all began to decalre independence.

- Subsequent Alaafins wanted to revert to the old patterns but these Yoruba kings who have enjoyed certain degree of autonomy & what came with did not wat to go back under anyone, not even the Alaafin.

- And in order to avoid a confrontation, these kings agreed to go to war against Ilorin in support of Alaafin but they also sent support to Ilorin which helped in the defeat & death of a few Alaafin.

- Some Yoruba kings also employed the Ilorin problens to effect the death of their fellow Yoruba kings whom they had scores to settle.

- Prior to the British, everyone regarded Ilorin as a Yoruba town and throne as a Yoruba throne such that Ibadan, Ekiti/Ijesa & Ilorin became the power houses in Yorubaland. In fact, the Ilorin kings exchanged gifts and messages. The Ilorin kings did not dress like muslims until much later. And the Yoruba soldiers who conquered Ilorin army in Osogbo & Okuku/Inisha were largely muslims.

- The British came, grouped Ilorin with the MB then North & that changed the game. Ever since, Ilorin people & Ilorin throne have continued to pursue a religious identity similar to that prevalent in their geo-political space.

- Till today, Ilorin is populated largely by people from old Oyo. And they regard their king as Oba not Emir.

Thus, Ilorin is not lost. It is in the hands of Yoruba who have let religion confused them a bit. When the day of regionalism comes, you will see that Ilorin question will be answered without violence.

Lol... Guy, you are actually far more dimwitted than I initially thought. So you don't know what outlive means? Jeez! See, your ragtag Oyo empire kissed the dust after in the 1820s after performing abysmally in several wars and had been reduced to a shadow of itself many Years prior.
Meanwhile, the Benin empire only went off in 1897, more than 70 years after Oyo entered the history books. Guy, seventy years no be beans ooo.

Did you hears yourself? Alimi's sons born by a Yoruba woman now rule Ilorin? Where for goodness sake is this creature from?
Was Alimi a Fulani or a Yoruba man? Simple answer, he was Fulani and what the hell does that make his sons? Fulani are the rulers of Ilorin till tomorrow through Alimi except your are from Ghana where children take their mothers origin.

So stop fighting a lost cause. Oluwo is about traveling that same route, they will soon have emir and not Oba. So deal with that. Slavebuoy!

Y0ruba:
Nobody rejigged. They operated what kings, including your own king told them before they implemented the NA system & subsequent regional system.

Stop this your conjuring of history. This very line of argument (lies) has been stoutly refuted by the Obaship in Benin. Say something else abeg.

Y0ruba:
Are you aware no scholar uses ‘empire’ for Bini, they all refer to it as a Kingdom. While for Oyo all scholars use empire.

I can give you a list of books to prove this, try me.

We can focus on foreign historians, they are neutrals.

You are so funny.. please bring the document that will only serve Benin interests again.. I asked you to give me a list of all the 16 kingdoms in Eastern Yoruba you refused.. I am trying you.. so brings things na..

Y0ruba:
I’m weak

Fam, you is one ‘helluva’ dumbfxxk.

Ekitiparapo was Ijesa, Ife, Ijebu, Imesi. They ganged to fight Ibadan for balance of power. This event happened looooooong after the 6 towns Bini invaded had crushed your army.

So in your olodo mind Bini invaded Ekitiparapo?

Olu317, BabaRamota, Obalufon eyin egbon mi, come & see blockheadedness in full gear. I can’t stopcracking up.

https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mtbu.gif

Oh so Akure, Ondo were not part of pre-colonial Ekiti land? You and all your brothers you mentioned should be ashamed of yourselves..
Anyways Benin Conquered all of Eastern Yoruba.. The fear of Benin was the beginning of wisdom of your ancestors, a fear which lingered on till you were set free by the British..
Please also get it into your blockhead that it was Benin soldiers that helped you guys in your fight against Ibadan..

steveosaz:
Lol... Guy, you are actually far more dimwitted than I initially thought. So you don't know what outlive means? Jeez! See, your ragtag Oyo empire kissed the dust after in the 1820s after performing abysmally in several wars and had been reduced to a shadow of itself many Years prior.
Meanwhile, the Benin empire only went off in 1897, more than 70 years after Oyo entered the history books. Guy, seventy years no be beans ooo.

Did you hears yourself? Alimi's sons born by a Yoruba woman now rule Ilorin? Where for goodness sake is this creature from?
Was Alimi a Fulani or a Yoruba man? Simple answer, he was Fulani and what the hell does that make his sons? Fulani are the rulers of Ilorin till tomorrow through Alimi except your are from Ghana where children take their mothers origin.

So stop fighting a lost cause. Oluwo is about traveling that same route, they will soon have emir and not Oba. So deal with that. Slavebuoy!

You want to escape from the debate by taking the part of petty unfounded jibes Yiibos throw around at Yoruba folks, I reject the bait.

Your Bini kingdom had to wait for Oyo to elapse its apogee. The point here is, had Bini ventured into expansion like Oyo did, it would have been crushed and wiped off the face of the earth. Reference is in how just one confrontation with the Ondo, Akure & Ekiti army crushrd your army for life and your army never fought any wars ever again. .

The 70 years Bini lasted for were the years Oyo collpased and Bini began to have huge access to guns. There was nothing extra ordinary about it.

Did Bini attempt to expand with cavalry like Oyo, Mali, Soghai, Sokoto, Nupe, Bariba, Borno did? No.

steveosaz:
Stop this your conjuring of history. This very line of argument (lies) has been stoutly refuted by the Obaship in Benin. Say something else abeg.

The same Obaship that makes the Bini king

1. Face the east to pray for the Ooni every morning through a particular window?

2. Makes the Oba elect lease land from the Ogiamen?

Why do you keep embarrassing yourself?

Y0ruba:
Are you aware no scholar uses ‘empire’ for Bini, they all refer to it as a Kingdom. While for Oyo all scholars use empire.

I can give you a list of books to prove this, try me.

We can focus on foreign historians, they are neutrals.

I know u are a mumu that’s why u don’t know all books are available on google.. I shud go buy books lol. How many u don buy?
I’m still waiting for ur documents u said u want to bring but while u are looking for them let this one motivate u to look for them fast.

davidnazee:
You are so funny.. please bring the document that will only serve Benin interests again.. I asked you to give me a list of all the 16 kingdoms in Eastern Yoruba you refused.. I am trying you.. so brings things na..

16 Kings:

1) The Owore of Otun
(2) The Ajero of Ijero
(3) The Ewi of Ado
(4) The Elekole of Ikole
(5) Alara of Aramoko
(6) Alaye of Efon Ahaye
(7) Ajanpanda of Akure
( Alagotun of Ogotun
(9) Olojudo of Ido
(10) Ata of Aiyede
(11) Oloja Oke of Igbo Odo
(12) Oloye of Oye
(13) Olomuwo of Omuwo
(14) Onire of Ire
(15) Arinjale of Ise
(16) Onitaji of Itaji.

You will have to do the search yourself. I am not going to go through my library to feed you with books then you come on the internet & start talking shxxt. You will go to the libraries to find books, that way you’ll learn that history is not an all comers affair.

davidnazee:
I know u are a mumu that’s why u don’t know all books are available on google.. I shud go buy books lol. How many u don buy?
I’m still waiting for ur documents u said u want to bring but while u are looking for them let this one motivate u to look for them fast.

Lol osho free. Gleaming information from few pages on google books, smh.

If you want to know how many books I’ve bought, come to OAU make I show you my stack.

I did not know Owo was a state

English is also a problem for you, I now see.

Y0ruba:
16 Kings:

1) The Owore of Otun
(2) The Ajero of Ijero
(3) The Ewi of Ado
(4) The Elekole of Ikole
(5) Alara of Aramoko
(6) Alaye of Efon Ahaye
(7) Ajanpanda of Akure
( Alagotun of Ogotun
(9) Olojudo of Ido
(10) Ata of Aiyede
(11) Oloja Oke of Igbo Odo
(12) Oloye of Oye
(13) Olomuwo of Omuwo
(14) Onire of Ire
(15) Arinjale of Ise
(16) Onitaji of Itaji.

You will have to do the search yourself. I am not going to go through my library to feed you with books then you come on the internet & start talking shxxt. You will go to the libraries to find books, that way you’ll learn that history is not an all comers affair.

Are you Yorubas not really ashamed of yourselves? U post lists of presumably recent kings, but however all those kingdoms they rule were all conquered in the between the 18th and 19th century by Benin, all apart from Otun which was the boundary between Benin and Oyo.
U are really a mumuyan.. the document I posted earlier listed all these towns as conquered by Benin.. Abi u no see am? go read my earlier document before this last one and you will see they are all listed there.. also let me add more towns to this your few list, Ilawe, Ijan, Ifaki, Iworoko, Esure, Are, Ogbese, Uyin, Igbemo, Aisegba, Agbado, Owo, Igbo-Omoba.. YOruba the list is endless.. We basically beat every nook and cranny of Yoruba lands.
Shameless Yoruba man, openly washing your dirty linen in public..

davidnazee:
Are you Yorubas not really ashamed of yourselves? U post lists of presumably recent kings, but however all those kingdoms they rule were all conquered in the between the 18th and 19th century by Benin, all apart from Otun which was the boundary between Benin and Oyo.
U are really a mumuyan.. the document I posted earlier listed all these towns as conquered by Benin.. Abi u no see am? go read my earlier document before this last one and you will see they are all listed there.. also let me add more towns to this your few list, Ilawe, Ijan, Ifaki, Iworoko, Esure, Are, Ogbese, Uyin, Igbemo, Aisegba, Agbado, Owo, Igbo-Omoba.. YOruba the list is endless.. We basically beat every nook and cranny of Yoruba lands.
Shameless Yoruba man, openly washing your dirty linen in public..

Recent kings? Wow you’re irredeemably daft! Recent?

Your documents stated that these towns got guns, revolted, fought war with & crushed Bini.

Idiotic pig of Ogiso with pentium 0.00000001 for a brain sluggishly processing data.

Y0ruba:
Bini scholar, relying in google is your greatest undoing. Please go to libraries or buy books and also visit the archive for first hand documents. Google can’t help you. If you’re in Edo, visit the Dept of History, they’ll recommend books and you’ll be able to tell us more about Edo without soundinf stupid with every post. Also, you’ll be able talk about Edo without quoting Yoruba scholars. Olodo, bragging about Google like that is what proper intelligent people depend on

1. I did not know the ethnic group in eastern Ghana, Dahomey, Bariba & Tapa were Yoruba until now.

2. I also did not know Ife, Ijebu, Egba, Ijesa & Ekiti were all Yoruba prior to 19th century until you just sait now.

3. I also did not know Udo, Afemau, Ishan & other towns surrounding Bini were not Edo o.

4. There was no state separation yet most Yoruba towns were regarded as Ekiti? Do you now see why I keep saying you are not smart? I guess there were no state separation yet the Abua, Ikwerre, Ibani, Opobo, Eleme, Okrika, and Kalabari, Etche, Ogba, Ogoni, Engenni, Egbema, Obolo were all regarded as Rivers? Smh.

5. Ever heard of ALara, Ajero, Oloba, Owa Orangun aga & the others who were Oranmiyan’s seniors? The only king you made was Eleko but guess what, Yoruba made your king .



Try very hard again, very hard.

If in this time and era, you can still come here and shamelessly denounce the very mighty Google, then guy, you don't belong in this generation.
Every sensible person in this era knows that google gives you ease of access to information thitherto obscure and difficult to find.

It is this same Google that has helped in exposing what an inept and incompetent, slave worshiping people the yorubas are.

Y0ruba:
Recent kings? Wow you’re irredeemably daft! Recent?

Your documents stated that these towns got guns, revolted, fought war with & crushed Bini.

Idiotic pig of Ogiso with pentium 0.00000001 for a brain sluggishly processing data.

I am getting busy editing a paper I sent out for publication.

I’ll be back.

Revolted and crushed Benin hahahaha.. You are really delusional.. well I guess its the fake pride in you that's speaking lol..
Your documents says guns were massively used and yet you lost.. Your deji executed, your princes turned slaves in Benin court..
History is not favorable to you, deal with it..

Y0ruba:
You want to escape from the debate by taking the part of petty unfounded jibes Yiibos throw around at Yoruba folks, I reject the bait.

Your Bini kingdom had to wait for Oyo to elapse its apogee. The point here is, had Bini ventured into expansion like Oyo did, it would have been crushed and wiped off the face of the earth. Reference is in how just one confrontation with the Ondo, Akure & Ekiti army crushrd your army for life and your army never fought any wars ever again. .

The 70 years Bini lasted for were the years Oyo collpased and Bini began to have huge access to guns. There was nothing extra ordinary about it.

Did Bini attempt to expand with cavalry like Oyo, Mali, Soghai, Sokoto, Nupe, Bariba, Borno did? No.

Yoroooooobaaaaa, iro po lenu e. Haahaahha

I asked you a question earlier which you tactically dodged; what led to the demise of the Oyo empire?

Benin empire never had any business with Oyo. It's surviving 70yrs after Oyo is testament of its tenacity. Their exploits are indisputable.
Even if you drink gamalin 20, it wouldn't change anything.

Y0ruba:
Recent kings? Wow you’re irredeemably daft! Recent?

Your documents stated that these towns got guns, revolted, fought war with & crushed Bini.

Idiotic pig of Ogiso with pentium 0.00000001 for a brain sluggishly processing data.

I am getting busy editing a paper I sent out for publication.

I’ll be back.

One can just imagine the garbage you would have stuffed up in that crappy publication of yours. Filled up with cooked up data just like those of many before you.

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