In the Old Testament the bible makes us understand that one of the benefits of tithe is God rebuking the devourer. Since our anti-tithe army have dispelled the usefulness of tithes after the coming of Jesus, How can I provoke Gods intervention in rebuking the devourer or personally rebuke the devourer effectively?

Please let's keep it simple and provide bible backed arguments.

What happened to d earliest church, where possessions were brought and shared among members ( d less privileged)? All what most Christians of today know is to b sober or believe to receive favor from ppl, even when they don't know d source.
They will even give testimonies abt it. Lazy Christians, we av wat it takes to build nations but too bad, we r been misled.

What happened to d earliest church, where possessions were brought and shared among members ( d less privileged)? All what most Christians of today know is to b sober or believe to receive favor from ppl, even when they don't know d source.
They will even give testimonies abt it. Lazy Christians, we av wat it takes to build nations but too bad, we r been misled. Pastor wait patiently for tithes, offerings, vows and pledges to enrich theirselves and buy wat won't last for d less privileged. Collate all dis money, build industries, build places where ppl can work and earn living.reduce unemployment , than for u to b milking gullible ppl for ur benefits. Unna jus dey preach theories rather than being practical. Lubbish brainwashers.

If thithe was so important why did Jesus never talked about it during his time?? I'm not sure he paid thithe during his time.

Hello, the following is a copy of a conversation I had about tithing with someone else. It may not directly answer your question, but you will find enough in it to begin to answer your question.

Question
I am new here please. I need explanation concerning tithing. Why do pastors only quote Malachi 3? Whereas there are many verses that talked about tithing, from Old Testament to even Hebrews. Please I need very serious and convincing explanations

Answer
Hello. My explanation will be serious but you will decide just how convincing you find it.

First of all, I cannot speak for any pastors concerning why they quote only Malachi 3. You will have to ask them. The best I can do is take an educated guess. And that is that it is probably the best way they can try to convince believers who don't know the Bible well to pay them money. Also, there may be the problem of spiritual immaturity on the part of the pastor so that he does not understand the Scriptures in this particular matter.

Second, the tithe was the income tax of the ancient nation of Israel paid in agricultural products (both animals and plants crops or in their monetary equivalent plus 20% of the value). It was necessary to sustain the Temple worship and provide welfare for the indigent in the towns and villages and cities of Israel. Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18:21-32, Deut 14:28-29.

After the Lord Jesus Christ came and paid the Sacrifice in His Blood, the Law of Moses was removed and a new Law in Christ was instituted so that the ritual provisions of the Mosaic Law and the rituals associated with the Temple are no longer in force, certainly not for the Gentiles today. So the tithe is no longer in force. Heb 8:6-13.

But under the New Covenant in Jesus Christ's Blood, we are now supposed to cheerfully and deliberately take responsibility for one another so that

1. those whom the Lord has tasked with feeding His Children with the Truth (that is, pastor-teachers) are provided with what they need for sustenance (1 Cor 9:4-14, Gal 6:6);

2. indigent believers find material support from fellow believers (2 Cor 8:13-15, 9:11-12);

3. unbelievers are witnessed to by our compassion and generosity toward each other and them as well (2 Cor 9:13).

So, while we must not return to the Old Testament Mosaic Law in any form so that we do not blaspheme against the Lord Jesus Christ (any recourse to the Mosaic Law denies that the Lord Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and died for our sins, Gal 5:4), we are not therefore to become cruel and uncaring toward others. In fact, we are now called to a higher standard of life where we are to be proactive in helping others who are less fortunate in material circumstances than we are, of course prioritizing our pastor-teachers and fellow believers in this as well.


May the Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

I'll be happy to answer any further questions or provide clarification or defence for anything in the above.

Edit: if you can handle it, I am attaching a Word document of the full conversation which you can read at your leisure for better understanding.

nairalandmod:
If thithe was so important why did Jesus never talked about it during his time?? I'm not sure he paid thithe during his time.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness.
You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Mathew 23 Vs 23.


It means you should do justice, obey the law show mercy and faithfulness...Then Pay tithe.

Don't leave any of these ...


This is from Jesus Christ himself.

Ihedinobi3:


Question
I am new here please. I need explanation concerning tithing. Why do pastors only quote Malachi 3? Whereas there are many verses that talked about tithing, from Old Testament to even Hebrews. Please I need very serious and convincing explanations
Answer
Hello. My explanation will be serious but you will decide just how convincing you find it.
First of all, I cannot speak for any pastors concerning why they quote only Malachi 3. You will have to ask them. The best I can do is take an educated guess. And that is that it is probably the best way they can try to convince believers who don't know the Bible well to pay them money. Also, there may be the problem of spiritual immaturity on the part of the pastor so that he does not understand the Scriptures in this particular matter.
Second, the tithe was the income tax of the ancient nation of Israel paid in agricultural products (both animals and plants crops or in their monetary equivalent plus 20% of the value). It was necessary to sustain the Temple worship and provide welfare for the indigent in the towns and villages and cities of Israel. Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18:21-32, Deut 14:28-29.
After the Lord Jesus Christ came and paid the Sacrifice in His Blood, the Law of Moses was removed and a new Law in Christ was instituted so that the ritual provisions of the Mosaic Law and the rituals associated with the Temple are no longer in force, certainly not for the Gentiles today. So the tithe is no longer in force. Heb 8:6-13.
But under the New Covenant in Jesus Christ's Blood, we are now supposed to cheerfully and deliberately take responsibility for one another so that
1. those whom the Lord has tasked with feeding His Children with the Truth (that is, pastor-teachers) are provided with what they need for sustenance (1 Cor 9:4-14, Gal 6:6);
2. indigent believers find material support from fellow believers (2 Cor 8:13-15, 9:11-12);
3. unbelievers are witnessed to by our compassion and generosity toward each other and them as well (2 Cor 9:13).
So, while we must not return to the Old Testament Mosaic Law in any form so that we do not blaspheme against the Lord Jesus Christ (any recourse to the Mosaic Law denies that the Lord Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and died for our sins, Gal 5:4), we are not therefore to become cruel and uncaring toward others. In fact, we are now called to a higher standard of life where we are to be proactive in helping others who are less fortunate in material circumstances than we are, of course prioritizing our pastor-teachers and fellow believers in this as well.
May the Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

are you aware a born again christian is actually the modern day Jew/Israelite?
So by you own explanation up there Christ's blood covers provision in the church?

Somebody already beat me to the Mathew 23:23 defence so I will refer you there.

If you believe devourers exist & will devour your monies when you do not pay tithe - it will be so unto you, but if you believe that you're impervious to devourers & altogether with the bastards that fabricated the lies in Rome - including the bastards that keep promoting that useless & empty myth in Nigeria - then your belief will work for you.

God writes right on curved lines, it is God who wanted this anti-tithing rebellion, then God also has the solution of everything, only believe in God.

CodeTemplar:
are you aware a born again christian is actually the modern day Jew/Israelite?
So by you own explanation up there Christ's blood covers provision in the church?

Somebody already beat me to the Mathew 23:23 defence so I will refer you there.

I don't think that your first paragraph is true in the sense that you seem to me to be presenting it. You may be referring to Gal 6:16 and Gal 3:29 among myriad other similar passages. But these passages are actually referring to Rom 11:17 and Jn 10:16. We are still Gentiles even if we have been added to God's Eternal Israel, much the same way as I am still Ihedinobi in this body even though there is a name that will be mine eternally at the end of this Race.

The earthly nation Israel is still distinct from Gentile nations. And God still has a special covenant with the actual earthly descendants of Abraham that has nothing to do with those who are not biological offspring of Abraham. This is also the gist of Rom 11:1-2.

So, it is not wise to arrogate to oneself a status and promises and obligations that God has given to another. You and I are believers and therefore members of God's Family but we are Gentile believers, not Jewish believers and although spiritually, there is no difference, there is an earthly difference and God recognizes it.

About Matt 23:23, our Lord was speaking to the Pharisees etc before the Cross. After the Cross, everything changed. Believers of today are not obligated to the Mosaic Law. This is the gist of Paul's letters to the Romans, Galatians and Hebrews, at least. We have no obligation whatsoever to fulfill the requirements of the Law. There is a new Law in Christ Jesus now even as John effectively said in Jn 1:17. That is what we must follow. Any recourse to the Old Law now only brings wrath (Gal 5:4).

Ihedinobi3:


I don't think that your first paragraph is true in the sense that you seem to me to be presenting it. You may be referring to Gal 6:16 and Gal 3:29 among myriad other similar passages. But these passages are actually referring to Rom 11:17 and Jn 10:16. We are still Gentiles even if we have been added to God's Eternal Israel, much the same way as I am still Ihedinobi in this body even though there is a name that will be mine eternally at the end of this Race.

The earthly nation Israel is still distinct from Gentile nations. And God still has a special covenant with the actual earthly descendants of Abraham that has nothing to do with those who are not biological offspring of Abraham. This is also the gist of Rom 11:1-2.

So, it is not wise to arrogate to oneself a status and promises and obligations that God has given to another. You and I are believers and therefore members of God's Family but we are Gentile believers, not Jewish believers and although spiritually, there is no difference, there is an earthly difference and God recognizes it.

About Matt 23:23, our Lord was speaking to the Pharisees etc before the Cross. After the Cross, everything changed. Believers of today are not obligated to the Mosaic Law. This is the gist of Paul's letters to the Romans, Galatians and Hebrews, at least. We have no obligation whatsoever to fulfill the requirements of the Law. There is a new Law in Christ Jesus now even as John effectively said in Jn 1:17. That is what we must follow. Any recourse to the Old Law now only brings wrath (Gal 5:4).

All the teachings of Jesus Christ are valid... Either before or after the cross...

Till now, the matters of justice, mercy and faith are weightier matters...

Also, we obey the law both of Moses and of our land...

The difference then (the time of the law) and now (the time of grace) are these :

1. We are not justify by how much of the law we obey...... but by faith in the Righteousness in Jesus..

2. Then, no one could be called righteous in that YOU CANNOT DO WITHOUT BREAKING ONE OF THE LAW...

But now, we are made holy and sinless even though it is impossible to be SINLESS IN THE FLESH...

LOOK CLOSELY AT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS...

A child of God will not do anything THAT WILL BREAK ANY OF THE LAW.


Before the Cross, Jesus summarized the 10 commandments into two...

Love God, and your neighbor.

in these two, all other laws are fulfilled..

This is the teachings of Jesus Christ and it is valid before and after resurrection.



Jesus Christ did not do open teaching after he resurected...

Payment of tithe is an act of giving to God...

One would show gratitude and admit that whatever he owns has been given to him by God.

We have the Holy Spirit... Who teaches us all things THAT GLORIFY GOD.

Ihedinobi3:


I don't think that your first paragraph is true in the sense that you seem to me to be presenting it. You may be referring to Gal 6:16 and Gal 3:29 among myriad other similar passages. But these passages are actually referring to Rom 11:17 and Jn 10:16. We are still Gentiles even if we have been added to God's Eternal Israel, much the same way as I am still Ihedinobi in this body even though there is a name that will be mine eternally at the end of this Race.

The earthly nation Israel is still distinct from Gentile nations. And God still has a special covenant with the actual earthly descendants of Abraham that has nothing to do with those who are not biological offspring of Abraham. This is also the gist of Rom 11:1-2.

So, it is not wise to arrogate to oneself a status and promises and obligations that God has given to another. You and I are believers and therefore members of God's Family but we are Gentile believers, not Jewish believers and although spiritually, there is no difference, there is an earthly difference and God recognizes it.

About Matt 23:23, our Lord was speaking to the Pharisees etc before the Cross. After the Cross, everything changed. Believers of today are not obligated to the Mosaic Law. This is the gist of Paul's letters to the Romans, Galatians and Hebrews, at least. We have no obligation whatsoever to fulfill the requirements of the Law. There is a new Law in Christ Jesus now even as John effectively said in Jn 1:17. That is what we must follow. Any recourse to the Old Law now only brings wrath (Gal 5:4).

The teachings of Jesus Christ are valid both before and after the Cross.

Jesus didn't do open teaching after his resurrection...

Should we throw away all his teachings then? No. Never.

Mercy, justice, faith are still weightier matters..


Tithing still remains valid... but not weightier as mentioned by Jesus himself.

We have the Holy Spirit to teach us and explain to us that giving is an act of being grateful...

either by tithing or any other way.

Take a look at the 10 commandments...

A child of God won't do any of those... invariably, he fulfils the law... both of Moses and the law of our land...

The differences between the time of the law and the time of grace are

1. Our righteousness does not depend on how much of the law we obey.... (Yet we strive to obey them all)

it depends on the blood of Jesus.

Since no one can fulfil the law WITHOUT ERRING IN ONE.

By the law, if you are in one, you err in all.


2. We are not to be punished by the law... if we err... rather, we receive grace by mercy..


Before the Cross, Jesus summarized the ten commandments into two :

Love God and love your neighbour.

This two summarises all the laws...


It was valid before the Cross and valid till now...

Tithing is not weightier... than mercy, faith, and Justice ....

but it shouldn't be left undone...

Originakalokalo:



The teachings of Jesus Christ are valid both before and after the Cross.

Jesus didn't do open teaching after his resurrection...

Should we throw away all his teachings then? No. Never.

Mercy, justice, faith are still weightier matters..


Tithing still remains valid... but not weightier as mentioned by Jesus himself.

We have the Holy Spirit to teach us and explain to us that giving is an act of being grateful...

either by tithing or any other way.

Take a look at the 10 commandments...

A child of God won't do any of those... invariably, he fulfils the law... both of Moses and the law of our land...

The differences between the time of the law and the time of grace are

1. Our righteousness does not depend on how much of the law we obey.... (Yet we strive to obey them all)

it depends on the blood of Jesus.

Since no one can fulfil the law WITHOUT ERRING IN ONE.

By the law, if you are in one, you err in all.


2. We are not to be punished by the law... if we err... rather, we receive grace by mercy..


Before the Cross, Jesus summarized the ten commandments into two :

Love God and love your neighbour.

This two summarises all the laws...


It was valid before the Cross and valid till now...

Tithing is not weightier... than mercy, faith, and Justice ....

but it shouldn't be left undone...

Although, as you may know, I have lengthy writings here where I have not added Scriptural references, I do my level best to say what I believe the Scriptures actually say.

It will take quite a bit of work to exegete Romans, Galatians and Hebrews, but that is not altogether necessary as I already shared bits from each of them in the material that I have shared here. Still, at some point, I may be able to and it may be necessary for me to do so. But I doubt that it will be any time soon.

Here is what I think is glaringly obvious:

The Lord Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law (Matt 5:17).

The Law was not going to pass away in even one small dot unless every bit of it was fulfilled (Matt 5:18).

Since our Lord fulfilled the Law when He lived in the Flesh and died and resurrected, all the Law was fulfilled and promptly removed (Col 2:14, Heb 8:13).

Now, we are commanded to live in the freedom which Jesus Christ has bought for us with His Death on the Cross (Gal 5:1). To continue to live by Moses is to deny the Death of the Lord Jesus for our sins (Gal 5:4).

This, of course, does not mean that we are now free to commit all sorts of wickedness just because we are no longer under the Law (Rom 6:1-2). Rather, Grace has its own "demands", if you will.

For example, if we are no longer required to pay the tithe, we are still commanded to provide for those who teach us the Truth so that we can grow spiritually, for the poor among believers and for the poor among unbelievers, in that order (see my first post for references).

This is what the Bible actually teaches.

The Lord Jesus said what was right to say at and for the time that He said it. He could not have told the Pharisees that they were not to pay the tithe anymore since the Law was still in force. The Temple still stood and there was a priesthood in Israel.

But after the Lord Jesus died and resurrected, the Temple was destroyed and the priesthood ended. The New Law came into force and it was no longer right to pay a tithe. Not only is the system that the tithe was supposed to support no longer extant, there was an entirely new system with new requirements. The Church is spread out across the world with teachers everywhere doing their jobs to help believers grow. There is no point collecting the tithe in Jerusalem anymore since the teachers are both Jewish and Gentile and can be very far away from Jerusalem at any given time.

The Lord therefore instituted a new way to take care of His People and commanded that it must be done freely with no compulsion. Those who give must give as they please both in type of gift and in quantity of gift. (See the attached document for more details and Biblical references).

Originakalokalo:




All the teachings of Jesus Christ are valid... Either before or after the cross...

Till now, the matters of justice, mercy and faith are weightier matters...

Also, we obey the law both of Moses and of our land...

The difference then (the time of the law) and now (the time of grace) are these :

1. We are not justify by how much of the law we obey...... but by faith in the Righteousness in Jesus..

2. Then, no one could be called righteous in that YOU CANNOT DO WITHOUT BREAKING ONE OF THE LAW...

But now, we are made holy and sinless even though it is impossible to be SINLESS IN THE FLESH...

LOOK CLOSELY AT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS...

A child of God will not do anything THAT WILL BREAK ANY OF THE LAW.


Before the Cross, Jesus summarized the 10 commandments into two...

Love God, and your neighbor.

in these two, all other laws are fulfilled..

This is the teachings of Jesus Christ and it is valid before and after resurrection.



Jesus Christ did not do open teaching after he resurected...

Payment of tithe is an act of giving to God...

One would show gratitude and admit that whatever he owns has been given to him by God.

We have the Holy Spirit... Who teaches us all things THAT GLORIFY GOD.

I think I already answered everything here.

I think I will just emphasize that the fact that certain things became invalid after the Cross does not mean that Truth ever changed. Although the tithing system is no longer active, for example, God still has a system for accomplishing what the tithing system was supposed to accomplish.

This is really why it can be said that there has ever only been one covenant, not two. But still we must understand that what Moses mediated was no more than a shadow of the real thing. And now the real thing is here and there is no more place for shadows.

This is what you said.. :

About Matt 23:23, our Lord was speaking to the Pharisees etc before the Cross. After the Cross, everything changed. ...


..and I responded that

the teaching of Jesus Christ are valid... both before and after the Cross...


mercy, faith and Justice are weightier...


..and tithing should not be left undone.

Originakalokalo:

This is what you said.. :

About Matt 23:23, our Lord was speaking to the Pharisees etc before the Cross. After the Cross, everything changed. ...


..and I responded that

the teaching of Jesus Christ are valid... both before and after the Cross...


mercy, faith and Justice are weightier...


..and tithing should not be left undone.

I know both what I said (which you quoted correctly) and what you said. I think I answered appropriately.

Tithing has no place in the Church today because the Lord Jesus has fulfilled the Law with His Death on the Cross rendering the Mosaic Law completely inactive today.

Ihedinobi3:


I know both what I said (which you quoted correctly) and what you said. I think I answered appropriately.

Tithing has no place in the Church today because the Lord Jesus has fulfilled the Law with His Death on the Cross rendering the Mosaic Law completely inactive today.

I understand where you are coming from..

But I will disagree with you on tithing.

Originakalokalo:


I understand where you are coming from..

But I will disagree with you on tithing.

I understand.

Your penultimate post confused me. I wonder if you saw both posts I made or just one of them.

Zoharariel:
If you believe devourers exist & will devour your monies when you do not pay tithe - it will be so unto you, but if you believe that you're impervious to devourers & altogether with the bastards that fabricated the lies in Rome - including the bastards that keep promoting that useless & empty myth in Nigeria - then your belief will work for you.

I believe u are referring to the passage in proverb where it says " as a man thinketh so is he"
The verse is talking about the way the thoughts of your mind and heart defines your good/bad status.
It doesn't mean you can think to override Gods laid down order. If your explanation was true it will be possible to think yourself into wealth or health or even famine. Good remains good and bab remains bad.

CodeTemplar:
I believe u are referring to the passage in proverb where it says " as a man thinketh so is he"
The verse is talking about the way the thoughts of your mind and heart defines your good/bad status.
It doesn't mean you can think to override Gods laid down order. If your explanation was true it will be possible to think yourself into wealth or health or even famine. Good remains good and bab remains bad.

Then that means you've not read this book below. My friend, your god's only laid down order is chaos, anarchy, war, bestiality & LGBT ravaging all the continents.

Ihedinobi3:

I understand.

Your penultimate post confused me. I wonder if you saw both posts I made or just one of them.

I wholly agree with you on this. The devourer have been devoured by the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Him we and all that belongs to us is secured. The strength of the devourer today is ignorance. Not knowing and embracing your secured place in Christ can be dangerous!

bloodofthelamb:


I wholly agree with you on this. The devourer have been devoured by the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Him we and all that belongs to us is secured. The strength of the devourer today is ignorance. Not knowing and embracing your secured place in Christ can be dangerous!

I'm glad that you agree. However, I must clarify that I don't believe that we believers can ever be free of suffering and poverty in this life. The sense in which our place in Christ is secure is in the sense that we are secure from God's condemnation.

Ihedinobi3:


I'm glad that you agree. However, I must clarify that I don't believe that we believers can ever be free of suffering and poverty in this life. The sense in which our place in Christ is secure is in the sense that we are secure from God's condemnation.

You mean the devourer is no longer active? I laugh in megabytes.

Nigerian like me dont know what depression is

CodeTemplar:
In the Old Testament the bible makes us understand that one of the benefits of tithe is God rebuking the devourer. Since our anti-tithe army have dispelled the usefulness of tithes after the coming of Jesus, How can I provoke Gods intervention in rebuking the devourer or personally rebuke the devourer effectively?

Please let's keep it simple and provide bible backed arguments.

Look at this OP, he's not giving tithes because he loves God, he's giving because he wants to 'rebuke the devourer'.

Most ignorant tithers try to bribe God by giving to receive, not freely but expecting something in return. Those who give to charity give freely, not expecting anything in return. That's why those who pay tithes are usually poorer than those who give to charity

Sowing and reaping is a natural law, not a spiritual law. Even if an atheist or animist gives, he also receives.

You can't follow God using logic and earthly wisdom.

CodeTemplar:
In the Old Testament the bible makes us understand that one of the benefits of tithe is God rebuking the devourer. Since our anti-tithe army have dispelled the usefulness of tithes after the coming of Jesus, How can I provoke Gods intervention in rebuking the devourer or personally rebuke the devourer effectively?

Please let's keep it simple and provide bible backed arguments.

You woke up with your demonic erection and you feel we should all be a part of it. Not even to advance your soul but for the sake of arguing. I don't know where your type of Christian comes from.

All these things only exist in your minds.



Why them no dey devour Zuckerberg and Gates money? Cross poverty line and watch your thinking faculty change.

This is purely a Christain thread
Why is there no caveat before commenting like they do on Muslim threads..

Well... They say the forum belongs to an Afonja.. So I'm not too surprised

Ok

Hebrew 7