₦airaland Forum

alBHAGDADI:
All my life, I've always believed in a rapture doctrine which says before the great tribulation and before the unveiling of the Antichrist, Christians will be raptured into heaven to meet Jesus. They say Jesus will come like a thief in the night, secretly to help his believers escape the tribulation which the Antichrist will unleash.

This concept has been made popular by movies like LEFT BEHIND and some America. televangelists. Before 1800, there was no church or preacher holding such doctrine. It was started by a man named John Darby who even wrote his own Bible which lacked key verses. Today, the doctrine is held by roughly 65% of Christians. The doctrine that we will escape the tribulation is false and not Biblical.

Jesus himself spoke of when the rapture will take place. Notice how his disciples asked him to tell them what the signs of his coming will be.

Mathew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Now read the further

24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In verse 9, Jesus spoke of Christians getting delievered up for persecution and are killed. That is the tribulation. But false teachers have taught that the people who will face such are unbelievers who are left behind after Christians have been raptured. Well, basically we all agree that the tribulation involves persecution. But the confusion here is who are the people to face the tribulation? Some believe it is unbelievers after Christians have been raptured, while some say it is Christians who will be persecuted by the Antichrist for failing to received the mark of the beast. Let's allow the Bible settle this confusion.

First, let us see whether Christians will be raptured before the tribulation or not.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you see the bold part in the passage above? Did you also see that the rapture takes place immediately after the tribulation of the end times? The events in verse 30 to 31 are the same as described by Apostle Paul in...

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But some people have deceived many by saying that what Jesus said in Mathew 24 cannot be the rapture because he was talking to the Jews and not to Christians. Why is it not the rapture when it is the same event described by Paul? Trumpet, angels, God's people getting caught up to heaven etc.

Yes, Jesus was talking to the Jews because his disciples who asked him to tell them about the end time were still under Judaism. But if you read Mark 13 and Luke 21, you will see that it's the same thing Jesus said in Mathew 24. At the last verse of Mark 13, Jesus said what he's saying to the people whom some quarters are saying is not the church, he's saying to ALL which includes the church.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Now, we see that the tribulation occurs before the rapture, but who carries out the tribulation and what is it exactly? The tribulation is the persecution of Christians at the end time such as never was and never will be.

Mathew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Christians will be beheaded and persecuted all around the world. This persecution will be carried out by the Antichrist engineered by Satan himself.

Mathew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


The Abomination of Desolation is the Antichrist who exhaust himself above everything called god and forces people to worship him.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Did you read the passage above? Did you see where it spoke about the coming of our Lord Jesus? Did you see in verse 3 that the day which Jesus will come will not exists until the man of sin (Antichrist) is revealed? Read verse 4 as well.

Yet some people say Christians won't face the tribulation even when the Bible says the Antichrist who will persecute during the tribulation will come first before Jesus Christ who will come and deliver Christians from his grip. Many will mistake him for Christ.

Mathew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This Antichrist will wage war against the saints.

Revelations 13:4-8

13 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

As you can see above, the Antichrist exhalst himself and blasphemes God's name. Is this not the same man Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, whom he said must first come before Jesus Christ comes back?

Now as seen in verse 7 above, the Antichrist wages war against the saints and will overcome many. Why is he waging war against the saint if some people believe the saints wont be around during the tribulations? In verse 13, everyone on earth is seen worshiping the Antichrist. Those who won't worship him are those whose names are written in the book of life. This is what will anger the Antichrist and make him wage war against them with great tribulation and persecution.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What we see so far is that people with their names in the book of life won't worship the Antichrist. But I ask, what are they doing on earth? I thought some people said they would have been raptured and escaped.

The proponent of a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine have said that the people left behind will be unbelievers who will now have to pay with their blood to get saved. They are the ones the Antichrist will persecute. This is a lie. If all Christians will be raptured before the tribulation, then those left will be unbelievers who are already tools of Satan. Do you expect someone who doesn't give a damn about Jesus to stand with Jesus when a cutlass is placed on his neck? He will gladly received the mark of the beast because he's not used to suffering for Christ whom he never believed in.

In revelations 12:17, we see that Satan will make war against those who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ. How some people believe that the people that Satan will make war against are unbelievers is what baffles me. Do unbelievers hold the testimony of Jesus? No.

Basically, what we've seen so far is that the Antichrist comes first, then follows a great tribulation which involves the persecution of Christians. It is immediately after the tribulation that Jesus Christ will appear and will redeem his people through a rapture.

Don't let anyone deceive you. Prepare yourself for that day which is fast approaching.

For the most part, you are correct sir.

OvPharez:
great tribulation is for those who didn't make it on the day of rapture it is not for Christians...

please leave them alone and let them argue. Tribulation is coming immediately after rapture of the saints and the suffering as the bible puts it is something that has never been witnessed before. That is when the anti-christ will unleash mayhem on the world. Those who accepts the mark of the beast will be allowed to buy and sell, enjoy health facilities etc but those who do not accept will be found and killed in all manner of ways. By so doing, they have redeemed themselves with their blood cos grace no longer works then. They will then make heaven. Those with the mark of the beast are already doomed for hell. There is also the Millennium reign of Christ where the devil will be thrown in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

I thought Nigerians are already going through the great tribulation

What do u think believers world wide are Currently facing?
Is it sweet tribulations??

joshnnanna:
You need to study more.

The Church of Jesus Christ will be raptured in glory sometime soon. But those who didn't really believe our message now that we are sharing it will be forced to believe becos of the rapture.

Then they will be the ones who will face this great tribulation becos the constraining power of evil in this world (which is the church and the holy spirit) would have left by then (rapture) thereby giving Satan a field day to torment those who still identify with Jesus.

This is my believe too.

The OP is mixing the Rapture and the second coming of Christ together. These are two distinct and different events, and one, the rapture will happen before the tribulation and the other, the second coming will happen after the tribulations.

In one, the rapture; Christians will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air and there will be no Saints vs Anti-Christ war....but, for the second coming, the Bible say, he will descend with tens thousands of saint on mount Olive, then the battle of Armageddon will ensure after which He will establish his millennium reign, and rule the world with his saints for the thousand years, after which there will be judgement. Also during the rapture Christ will not be visible to all men, only to Christians who will be caught up...it is going to be a silent event with visible after effects in other people will be missing, there will be lots of pains, catastrophe, etc.

The tribulation is not met for Christians, but unprepared Christians will pass through and anyone saved, must pay with their blood, as the dispensation of Grace will be no more. The tribulation is specifically designed to bring the Jews back to God and for them to believe in Christ. They will be so persecuted that, just like of old, they will turn to God, repair the altars, offer sacrifices and repentance to God amid their persecution and it is at the height of this that the second coming will occur with Christ visibly desecending from the skies with thousands of his saints who were raptured few years ago and they will fight the anti-Christ and his army and defeat them.

am4truth:
Hmmm.
The OP missed it. First of all, for those that think the rapture is the imagination of western people, you are wrong. the scripture describes it as caught up, that is sudden disappearance.

I Thess: 4: 16 and 17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Note the bolded words caught up.. Rapture is real, get prepared...Stop scamming, live a real life, be a blessing and not a curse. Love people and don't use and abandon them like a sanitary pad.

Jesus loves you

OP did not miss it. He is correct. He did not argue there will not be CAUGHT UP, but the bible says it would be after the Great Tribulation. It is very clear.

evansfo:
Pls, the great tribulation is what we are passing through now, there are rumours of war, fake prophets, nations rising against nations, earthquakes, are we not suffering already? Let's get ready for the coming of our Lord and for as many that says we are paying with our blood, show me were it is written in d bible.

Not true. These are just prelude to the Great Tribulation. According to Revelation 13, the Antichrist will come to usher in the Great Tribulation. At the end of the Great Tribulation (the Antichrist reign) will Jesus come in the cloud.

alBHAGDADI:
Which Bible verse told you that?

I'm not here to argue bible here n there, I just told you great tribulation is for those who didn't make the rapture if you disagree take it this way, do you think God or Jesus will allow those who served him to suffer greater torment, trails, persecution in the hands of Satan's agent nooooo way he won't he will come n take them before the tribulation

oloriLFC:
please leave them alone and let them argue. Tribulation is coming immediately after rapture of the saints and the suffering as the bible puts it is something that has never been witnessed before. That is when the anti-christ will unleash mayhem on the world. Those who accepts the mark of the beast will be allowed to buy and sell, enjoy health facilities etc but those who do not accept will be found and killed in all manner of ways. By so doing, they have redeemed themselves with their blood cos grace no longer works then. They will then make heaven. Those with the mark of the beast are already doomed for hell. There is also the Millennium reign of Christ where the devil will be thrown in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

The rapture doctrine is not supported by bible. It was introduced by John Darby in 1830. Before then there was nothing like rapture. Everyone believed in Great Tribulation before the second coming.

Jesus is only going come once after the Great Tribulation. Mathew 24 and Revelation 13 are clear on this. The Antichrist will come to usher in the Great Tribulation and will claim to be Christ. Jesus second coming will come to end the Antichrist reign and the Great Tribulation.

OvPharez:
I'm not here to argue bible here n there, I just told you great tribulation is for those who didn't make the rapture if you disagree take it this way, do you think God or Jesus will allow those who served him to suffer greater torment, trails, persecution in the hands of Satan's agent nooooo way he won't he will come n take them before the tribulation

Yes.

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him(the Antichrist) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Mathew 24:22

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.



From the above, you can see that even Christians, Saints and the Elects will go through the Great Tribulation and the Antichrist reign.

joshnnanna:
You need to study more.

The Church of Jesus Christ will be raptured in glory sometime soon. But those who didn't really believe our message now that we are sharing it will be forced to believe becos of the rapture.

Then they will be the ones who will face this great tribulation becos the constraining power of evil in this world (which is the church and the holy spirit) would have left by then (rapture) thereby giving Satan a field day to torment those who still identify with Jesus.

Paul in Thessalonians stated the first stage of rapture is the first resurrection of dead saints. Revelation 20 stated that the first resurrection involved those that were killed by the Antichrist because they didn't take his mark. How did that prove your point above? Read the bible yourself bro.

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OvPharez:
I'm not here to argue bible here n there, I just told you great tribulation is for those who didn't make the rapture if you disagree take it this way, do you think God or Jesus will allow those who served him to suffer greater torment, trails, persecution in the hands of Satan's agent nooooo way he won't he will come n take them before the tribulation

Is Jesus not the one talking below when he was speaking about the great tribulation? Yet you say he will not allow those who serve him to suffer torment.

Mathew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

linearity:
This is my believe too.

The OP is mixing the Rapture and the second coming of Christ together. These are two distinct and different events, and one, the rapture will happen before the tribulation and the other, the second coming will happen after the tribulations.

In one, the rapture; Christians will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air and there will be no Saints vs Anti-Christ war....but, for the second coming, the Bible say, he will descend with tens thousands of saint on mount Olive, then the battle of Armageddon will ensure after which He will establish his millennium reign, and rule the world with his saints for the thousand years, after which there will be judgement. Also during the rapture Christ will not be visible to all men, only to Christians who will be caught up...it is going to be a silent event with visible after effects in other people will be missing, there will be lots of pains, catastrophe, etc.

The tribulation is not met for Christians, but unprepared Christians will pass through and anyone saved, must pay with their blood, as the dispensation of Grace will be no more. The tribulation is specifically designed to bring the Jews back to God and for them to believe in Christ. They will be so persecuted that, just like of old, they will turn to God, repair the altars, offer sacrifices and repentance to God amid their persecution and it is at the height of this that the second coming will occur with Christ visibly desecending from the skies with thousands of his saints who were raptured few years ago and they will fight the anti-Christ and his army and defeat them.

You people just love to parrot the lies you've been fed without backing them up with scriptures, may be because you know you can't find scriptures to back them up with.

Where is it written that the second coming of Jesus is two events? Below is Jesus telling you about his second coming. I don't see where he said it will be two events. What I see is him mentioning one event during which the rapture takes place. He even says it will be immediately after the tribulation of those days and will be visible to all men, unlike what you said.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you see the bold part in the passage above? Did you also see that the rapture takes place immediately after the tribulation of the end times? The events in verse 30 to 31 are the same as described by Apostle Paul in...

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

adelee777:
Paul in Thessalonians stated the first stage of rapture is the first resurrection of dead saints. Revelation 20 stated that the first resurrection involved those that were killed by the Antichrist because they didn't take his mark. How did that prove your point above? Read the bible yourself bro.

The event Paul spoke of OK n Thessalonians is the same event Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24. Read my post directly above this one to see both passages. You will see the similsrities e.g trumpet, angels, people being gathered to meet Jesus.

They are not two separate events but one.

chibike69:


Religion is a scam

E go dey you like play for eye

alBHAGDADI:
Is Jesus not the one talking below when he was speaking about the great tribulation? Yet you say he will not allow those who serve him to suffer torment.

Mathew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

first of all rapture the second coming of Jesus to earth n the third is the great battle of Armageddon
*Jesus will be in the sky during the rapture
*

OvPharez:
first of all rapture the second coming of Jesus to earth n the third is the great battle of Armageddon
*Jesus will be in the sky during the rapture
*

Don't just talk, show me where your believe in written in the Bible. Or do you expect me to just take your words for it?

You sound like a deceived person, that's why you can't prove your point with the Bible.

oloriLFC:
please leave them alone and let them argue. Tribulation is coming immediately after rapture of the saints and the suffering as the bible puts it is something that has never been witnessed before. That is when the anti-christ will unleash mayhem on the world. Those who accepts the mark of the beast will be allowed to buy and sell, enjoy health facilities etc but those who do not accept will be found and killed in all manner of ways. By so doing, they have redeemed themselves with their blood cos grace no longer works then. They will then make heaven. Those with the mark of the beast are already doomed for hell. There is also the Millennium reign of Christ where the devil will be thrown in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

Let me quickly show you how wrong your post is. You say those who will be left behind in your concept of rapture will have to redeem themselves with their own blood before they can make heaven where God is.

You have no verse to back this up with.

Secondly, Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through him because he is the way, the truth and the life. Yet you believe those who will be left behind will make it to heaven through their own way.

Can you see how false your rapture doctrine is?

alBHAGDADI:
Is Jesus not the one talking below when he was speaking about the great tribulation? Yet you say he will not allow those who serve him to suffer torment.

Mathew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

first of all rapture the second coming of Jesus to earth n the third is the great battle of Armageddon
*Jesus will be in the sky during the rapture
* revelation 3:17- that is after the Lord has defeated Satan n imprisoned him then he will be released again to go n deceive pple nations etc to fight again

Matthew 24:23
this is before the rapture will takes place where he the anti christ will come to deceive many but Christ has put it straight that such n such is a deceiver

Matthew 24:9
this is concerning persecution of ones faith n not the great tribulation n it's also talking about the end time when men will stop believin n it's talking about the beginning of sorrow. read that chapter more n under that it's before the great tribulation

alBHAGDADI:
Don't just talk, show me where your believe in written in the Bible. Or do you expect me to just take your words for it?

You sound like a deceived person, that's why you can't prove your point with the Bible.

pls read your bible n stop all this question, question, question it doesn't help read n pray Bro. God give understanding

OvPharez:
first of all rapture the second coming of Jesus to earth n the third is the great battle of Armageddon
*Jesus will be in the sky during the rapture
* revelation 3:17- that is after the Lord has defeated Satan n imprisoned him then he will be released again to go n deceive pple nations etc to fight again

Matthew 24:23
this is before the rapture will takes place where he the anti christ will come to deceive many but Christ has put it straight that such n such is a deceiver

Matthew 24:9
this is concerning persecution of ones faith n not the great tribulation n it's also talking about the end time when men will stop believin n it's talking about the beginning of sorrow. read that chapter more n under that it's before the great tribulation

please, go and sit down with your mumbo jumbo use of scriptures.

MrPresident1:
The great tribulation has ended. It ended on the 14th of August 2017. Then we had the sun and moon darken on 21st August 2017

another one is coming in 2030 a great eclipse....

How many of you want to make heaven?

alBHAGDADI:
You people just love to parrot the lies you've been fed without backing them up with scriptures, may be because you know you can't find scriptures to back them up with.

Where is it written that the second coming of Jesus is two events? Below is Jesus telling you about his second coming. I don't see where he said it will be two events. What I see is him mentioning one event during which the rapture takes place. He even says it will be immediately after the tribulation of those days and will be visible to all men, unlike what you said.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you see the bold part in the passage above? Did you also see that the rapture takes place immediately after the tribulation of the end times? The events in verse 30 to 31 are the same as described by Apostle Paul in...

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

My Dear Friend,

I did not say that, the Second Coming of Christ is two events. You can go back and carefully read my prior post. What I stated is that, the Rapture is a distinct and separate even from the Second Coming of Christ, with each taking place on either side of the timeline of the Great tribulation.

And these two events have strong scriptural backing from Zechariah, Isaiah the prophet to Revelation, you just have to be deliberate when you read them to pick up the differences...

The passage you cited above in Mathew talks about the Second Coming of Christ, it said the Lord will be coming and all tribe shall see him and mourn, and his angels shall go to all ends of the earth to gather his elects. Zechariah 14:4 said his feet shall touch Mount Olive during this time, and it is clear that, the gathering refer to in Mathew is towards Mount Olive, where the feet of Christ will touch upon. And it is logical to reason that, it was the second coming and Zechariah's professes that, was in the mind of the disciples, when they came to ask him to tell them the signs of the end of time, because Jesus was on mount Olive, when the disciple approached him with this question and he explained it them, right there on mount Olive. Revelation chapters 6-19 also talk about the second coming of Christ.

However, the passage you quoted in Thessalonian talks about the Rapture, you see how it stated that, the dead saints shall rise, no dead saint shall rise during the second coming, if you read Revelation, question was asked about the dead saints who died during the tribulation and the response is, that will wait...Also see that, Thessalonian say, the Lord shall be in the Air, he did not descend into mount Olive and the saints will be caught up to meet him in the Air and see how Thessalonian did not mention any war, no darkening of moon, sun, no mourning, no crying, etc as indicated in Mathew.

There are more differences with scripture references:
At the Rapture, believers will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air (1 Thess 4:17), but at the Second Coming, believers will return with the Lord to the earth (Rev 19:14).

The Rapture is imminent, it could take place any moment , instant and no man, only God in heaven knows when it will happen (1 Cor 15:50-54, Math 24:44, Tit 2:13; 1 Thess 4:13-18); However, the Second Coming will not occur until other end-time events have happened and it will occur after the tribulation has lasted seven (7) years(Rev 1:7, Matt 24:29-30).

Rev 3:10-11; says Christ shall protect believers from the tribulation that shall come upon all the world and He will do this through the Rapture by taking them out of the scene.

The Rapture is a time of reward and blessings to believers, while the second coming is a time of judgement and for the anti-christ and unbelievers who joined him. Jesus and the saints will not be involved in any conflict, no war, etc during the rapture...there will be war during the second coming.

During the rapture, He will come like a thief in the night, if you read mathew again; all eyes will see him, the moon, sun, etc will be darken...that is not exactly like a thief...so that is a separate event than the rapture being described in mathew verses you cited.

To come to my position, read every account of the endtime events talking about Christ's coming as documented in Zechariah, Isaiah, Cor. Thess. & Revelation and study them side-by-side, you will conclude that, all these passages are not talking about one return event. You can even draw up a triage table of the differences and you will conclude that, two distinct events are being described.

Still on the book on Revelations

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Mathew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Now read the further
Dear op, I will like you to look at the questions ask and the answer given. That answer given by Jesus on that particular question is what will happen when the world will come to an end it has nothing to do with rapture of saint.

Those that will remain after the rapture will face the great tribulation during the 1000 years reign of Christ, after then Christ will now appear after those years to take away the earthly saint that refuses the mark of the beast and are still alive or dead

MrPresident1:
The great tribulation has ended. It ended on the 14th of August 2017. Then we had the sun and moon darken on 21st August 2017

What? So who was the Antichrist?

Suplexx:
Yes.

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him(the Antichrist) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Mathew 24:22

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.



From the above, you can see that even Christians, Saints and the Elects will go through the Great Tribulation and the Antichrist reign.

You nailed it. All of your posts regarding this particular subject (on here) are correct.

alBHAGDADI:
Do you think those whom you say will be left behind after your concept of rapture has taken place will care about Jesus? They never cared, why would they care then? They currently care about worldly things. When the Antichrist should up, they will follow him because he will offer more of what they care about.

Your concept of rapture is false. Didn't you see where Jesus said he will not come until the Antichrist has carried out the tribulation? Can you show us where it is stated that Christians will escape the tribulations ?

You can't cos it doesn't exist.

This guy calm down,haba. You always sound arrogant and decisive as if you possess all knowledge. I remember reading a book about 15 years ago about the different schools of thought on this tribulations doctrine they both presented their facts with scriptures.
We have millennialism,post millennialism and pre millennialism. It doesn't matter, while doctrine is essential,Christianity should not be burdened by these things that divide the body.
Preach repentance like Jesus did,faith in his work that could give those who accepts it all they desire to live a good life and fulfil their God given destinies of promoting his kingdom on Earth and being true ambassadors of Christ, until when death comes or rapture sounds.

alBHAGDADI:
The event Paul spoke of OK n Thessalonians is the same event Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24. Read my post directly above this one to see both passages. You will see the similsrities e.g trumpet, angels, people being gathered to meet Jesus.

They are not two separate events but one.

I am in agreement with you. I was replying to someone saying rapture comes first. Revelation 20 shows clearly that those that will be involved in the first resurrection will pass through the great tribulation. Thessalonians say the first resurrection is the first event in the rapture. I don't know what gives people the impression that Christians will be taken before the great tribulation.

OvPharez:
pls read your bible n stop all this question, question, question it doesn't help read n pray Bro. God give understanding

He backed his point up with scriptures. Back up yours and stop parroting what you heard from "pastors".