₦airaland Forum

IKON360:
Barca doesn't make average players seem world class, rather average players are terribly shown when in Barcelona, eg Alcacer, Bartra, Song, Mina, Dembele before, and so many others. At Barca the standards are so high, Lenglet is not so bad.

Yerry Mina was never given a chance at Barca,you think Langlet is better ? Because he has been getting a run of games right ?

So you now judge a defender with only 2 laliga starts and 5 appearance in total ?

Evangkatsoulis:
I know. He has been consistent. But beckham was better. That's my point.

You're comparing Beckham's entire career freekicks to messi's at 31.

Messi has scored 10 free kicks in 2018. If he keeps up this rate and recent history suggests he was will, he would have surpassed Beckham by d end of his career...

So, just chill!

andrew444:
How many has cr7 scored ?

Is it the same cr7 that could not score a free kick in almost 3 la liga season ?

Over 50 freekicks.

randomperson:
You're comparing Beckham's entire career freekicks to messi's at 31.

Messi has scored 10 free kicks in 2018. If he keeps up this rate and recent history suggests he was will, he would have surpassed Beckham by d end of his career...

So, just chill!

We are talking about the quality of the freekicks: distance, angle, and all.
Pirlo didn't score much freekicks but is hailed as one of greatest specialist of all time.

andrew444:
Messi has scored 46 free kick and David Beckham only scored 66 ,do you think Messi won't pass Beckham ?

In soccer, a difference of 20 freekicks is HUGE.
Calhanoglu scored 13 freekicks in one season. How many has he scored since? Still at 20-ish. Everyone has their peak. It is highly unlikely that messi would continue scoring 10+freekicks per year.

Evangkatsoulis:
Nah, messi is not even close to beckham. Beckham hits with power with generates more spin and thus a more pronounced curve. Check his goal vs Everton and that vs Greeece in 2001. Also juninho mastered the curl techniques in vasco dagama. He only began to use knuckle ball/dipping freekick in Lyon.
Also, one can master different technique. Like Pirlo who used curls before he learn the Knuckle freekick from Juninho. Ronaldo always has the same pose but he utilizes differenct techniques. check his goal vs spain and his first freekick goal portugal or his freekick vs Apoel in 2012, also his goal vs atletico in 2012/13 where he utilized the curl technique. Or his goal vs Denmark in 2011 or his goal vs athletico in 2011/12 where his utilized the dipping technique. Or his reverse curl/bend vs European XI in 2007.

wait o, how is Beckham's free kick technique better than Messi's? Beckham, Messi, Neymar and others all hit curve balls with power, Messi with serious power for that matter.
Dipping technque is knuckle ball technique na and most Juninho's free kicks were knuckle balls. What I was driving at is that you either master one or the other. The most important thing is clearing the wall, beating the goalkeeper and scoring. Any technique you use that works for is good enough. Juninho used a technique that worked for him, Roberto Carlor, Ronaldinho, C. Ronaldo and others. If a technique works for you keep using. All this talk of using different techniques to prove you are the G O A T is funny

Evangkatsoulis:
We are talking about the quality of the freekicks: distance, angle, and all.
Pirlo didn't score much freekicks but is hailed as one of greatest specialist of all time.

Pirlo was not a free kick specialist, he was a passing specialist. A footballing maestro, freekicks weren't his strong point

andrew444:
Yerry Mina was never given a chance at Barca,you think Langlet is better ? Because he has been getting a run of games right ?

So you now judge a defender with only 2 laliga starts and 5 appearance in total ?

don't misunderstand me or the train of thought we were talking o. I personally like Mina but he was terribly exposed in that match we lost 6 - 5. During the world cup he was much better and more confident.

IKON360:
wait o, how is Beckham's free kick technique better than Messi's? Beckham, Messi, Neymar and others all hit curve balls with power, Messi with serious power for that matter.
Dipping technque is knuckle ball technique na and most Juninho's free kicks were knuckle balls. What I was driving at is that you either master one or the other. The most important thing is clearing the wall, beating the goalkeeper and scoring. Any technique you use that works for is good enough. Juninho used a technique that worked for him, Roberto Carlor, Ronaldinho, C. Ronaldo and others. If a technique works for you keep using. All this talk of using different techniques to prove you are the G O A T is funny

No. Beckham actually hit with more power than messi. Don't kid yourself.
And again, juninho didn't use one technique! He mastered the curl in brazil and scored several goals with. He only began using the knuckleball and dip in when he got to lyon. And he used simple placement/curls when close to goal. He actually scored more simple freekicks than knuckleballs. He is just famous for his knuckleballs.

IKON360:
Pirlo was not a free kick specialist, he was a passing specialist. A footballing maestro, freekicks weren't his strong point

Says who? He has the most freekicks in serie A history(28), was the main freekick taker for milan even when Ronaldinho was there. The main freekick taker for italy when totti,del piero, balotelli were there, and also the main freekick taker for juventus.
WTF are you saying?

So one can't be a pass and freekick specialist like beckham who was a cross and freekick specialist?

IKON360:
don't misunderstand me or the train of thought we were talking o. I personally like Mina but he was terribly exposed in that match we lost 6 - 5. During the world cup he was much better and more confident.

I agree with you on this

I wish he was not sold

Anyway Barca is more than a club

Evangkatsoulis:
In soccer, a difference of 20 freekicks is HUGE.
Calhanoglu scored 13 freekicks in one season. How many has he scored since? Still at 20-ish. Everyone has their peak. It is highly unlikely that messi would continue scoring 10+freekicks per year.

And you think Messi will not score 20 in the next few seasons ?

So you are now comparing chalanoglu who is not constitent to Messi who is consistent ?

Smh for you

Evangkatsoulis:
Over 50 freekicks.

Lol okay ,he should watch his back as Messi will soon over take him . Because he scored only 1 free kick in almost 3 years which is against Spain at the World Cup

I can even bet that all cr7 free kick this season is will go over the bar or blocked by the wall

IKON360:
wait o, how is Beckham's free kick technique better than Messi's? Beckham, Messi, Neymar and others all hit curve balls with power, Messi with serious power for that matter.
Dipping technque is knuckle ball technique na and most Juninho's free kicks were knuckle balls. What I was driving at is that you either master one or the other. The most important thing is clearing the wall, beating the goalkeeper and scoring. Any technique you use that works for is good enough. Juninho used a technique that worked for him, Roberto Carlor, Ronaldinho, C. Ronaldo and others. If a technique works for you keep using. All this talk of using different techniques to prove you are the G O A T is funny

Again, a dipping freekick is not knuckleball. It is TOPSPIN, so the ball has a lot a spin(forward) causing the ball to dip suddenly.
On the other hand, a knuckleball reduces the lateral spin(deadspin/deadball) so little differences in air pressure causes the ball to wobble unpredictably.

you can see the difference is RONALDO's laliga freekick vs Villareal(knuckleball) and Ronaldo's freekick vs Denmark 2011 or vs atletico madrid 2012(dipping technique)

andrew444:
Lol okay ,he should watch his back as Messi will soon over take him . Because he scored only 1 free kick in almost 3 years which is against Spain at the World Cup

I can even bet that all cr7 free kick this season is will go over the bar or blocked by the wall

Ronaldo scored 3-4 freekicks in 2016, 2 in 2017 and 1 so far in 2018.
And he has like 61 freekicks in his senior career, if you add the one against spain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znKpvtwYlis

andrew444:
And you think Messi will not score 20 in the next few seasons ?

So you are now comparing chalanoglu who is not constitent to Messi who is consistent ?

Smh for you

My point is that calhanoglu scored 13 freekicks in less than 10 months about 3-4 years ago, so why isn't he at 50-60 freekicks as at 2018. He is still on 25+ freekicks.
Messi has never before scored 10 freekick goals in a year so why extropolate? These 10 goals made 19 freekick goals since 2019, boosting his average to 4.75 freekicks per goal. 2018 aside he scored 9 freekicks from 2014 to 2017, that's and average of 2.25-3.00 freekicks per year.
With that average it would have taken him 10 years to score another 30 freekicks to equal beckham. So you see?

Evangkatsoulis:
We are talking about the quality of the freekicks: distance, angle, and all.
Pirlo didn't score much freekicks but is hailed as one of greatest specialist of all time.

Long range free kicks are beautiful to watch but statistically, they are waste of opportunity. Crossing the ball in is more likely to lead to a goal than trying your luck from 40 yards....

randomperson:
Long range free kicks are beautiful to watch but statistically, they are waste of opportunity. Crossing the ball in is more likely to lead to a goal than trying your luck from 40 yards....

Not true. The average freekick conversion rate is around 5 percent.
On the other hand the average conversion rate from a cross(freekick, corner kick, open play) is about 1 in 40 or around 2-3%.

randomperson:
Long range free kicks are beautiful to watch but statistically, they are waste of opportunity. Crossing the ball in is more likely to lead to a goal than trying your luck from 40 yards....

In rating freekick takers, dribblers, shot taker, long range passers statistically, we don't care if there could have better options like passing to your nearest man instead of dribbling|trying throughballs/70yardpasses/ or taking shot from 50 metres!

Evangkatsoulis:
Says who? He has the most freekicks in serie A history(28), was the main freekick taker for milan even when Ronaldinho was there. The main freekick taker for italy when totti,del piero, balotelli were there, and also the main freekick taker for juventus.
WTF are you saying?

So one can't be a pass and freekick specialist like beckham who was a cross and freekick specialist?

Messi has scored more freekicks than Pirlo, So Messi in that aspect is better than Pirlo. Even Ronaldo has scored more freekicks than Pirlo. Beckham, Pirlo and Messi are all exceptional passers, but their freekick taking ranking will be Beckham, Messi and Pirlo.

Evangkatsoulis:
My point is that calhanoglu scored 13 freekicks in less than 10 months about 3-4 years ago, so why isn't he at 50-60 freekicks as at 2018. He is still on 25+ freekicks.
Messi has never before scored 10 freekick goals in a year so why extropolate? These 10 goals made 19 freekick goals since 2019, boosting his average to 4.75 freekicks per goal. 2018 aside he scored 9 freekicks from 2014 to 2017, that's and average of 2.25-3.00 freekicks per year.
With that average it would have taken him 10 years to score another 30 freekicks to equal beckham. So you see?

Messi keep improving with free kick ,Messi plays almost all games in a season

Why will chalanoglu score more free kick ? If he is not injured he will be in ac Milan bench

Evangkatsoulis:
Ronaldo scored 3-4 freekicks in 2016, 2 in 2017 and 1 so far in 2018.
And he has like 61 freekicks in his senior career, if you add the one against spain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znKpvtwYlis

Lies bro

Ronaldo didn't score 3-4 free kick in 2016

MJBOLT:

My GOAT doesn’t need drugs,
My GOAT doesn’t need attention,
My GOAT doesn’t need easy rules,
My GOAT doesn’t need friendly games,
My GOAT doesn’t need to self proclaim,
My GOAT doesn’t need a PR team,
My GOAT doesn’t need tap ins,
My GOAT doesn’t need to be carried,
My GOAT doesn't need Perez to win Ballond Ors.
My GOAT is Leo Messi.

My GOAT doesn't rape

Evangkatsoulis:
Again, a dipping freekick is not knuckleball. It is TOPSPIN, so the ball has a lot a spin(forward) causing the ball to dip suddenly.
On the other hand, a knuckleball reduces the lateral spin(deadspin/deadball) so little differences in air pressure causes the ball to wobble unpredictably.

you can see the difference is RONALDO's laliga freekick vs Villareal(knuckleball) and Ronaldo's freekick vs Denmark 2011 or vs atletico madrid 2012(dipping technique)

you are looking for so much grammar, the dip and the dead spin are struck as knuckle balls. I found out even Pirlo struck knuckle balls too. In essence those two styles are the same knuckle ball, the just takes different flight trajectories but the most important is eliminating the curve and achieveing the slight wobble

IKON360:
you are looking for so much grammar, the dip and the dead spin are struck as knuckle balls. I found out even Pirlo struck knuckle balls too. In essence those two styles are the same knuckle ball, the just takes different flight trajectories but the most important is eliminating the curve and achieveing the slight wobble

No deadspin kills the spin. Dip has a LOT of forward spin(opposite of backspin).
You can read about the TOPSPIN.

andrew444:
Lies bro

Ronaldo didn't score 3-4 free kick in 2016

One in la liga vs celta vigo. One vs wolfsburg in champions quarter final. That 3-0 hatrick.
One in the group stage of the 2016/17 champions league vs SPORTING CLUB and one vs atletico 2016/17 la liga. That's 4.
Any objection?
Let me check others.

Evangkatsoulis:
No. Beckham actually hit with more power than messi. Don't kid yourself.
And again, juninho didn't use one technique! He mastered the curl in brazil and scored several goals with. He only began using the knuckleball and dip in when he got to lyon. And he used simple placement/curls when close to goal. He actually scored more simple freekicks than knuckleballs. He is just famous for his knuckleballs.

we can't really measure the power of Beckham or Messi's free kicks, but I'll say sentimentally that Messi hits with more power than Beckham. However without sentiments, curling freekicks don't need power so much. Messi's first freekick goal against Athletico Madrid when Courtois was still there, was from in impossible angle for a leftie but he scored it with a high arching shot. A lot of Beckham's freekick goals weren't dependent on power but the curl. Same with Messi and other curlers.

IKON360:
we can't really measure the power of Beckham or Messi's free kicks, but I'll say sentimentally that Messi hits with more power than Beckham. However without sentiments, curling freekicks don't need power so much. Messi's first freekick goal against Athletico Madrid when Courtois was still there, was from in impossible angle for a leftie but he scored it with a high arching shot. A lot of Beckham's freekick goals weren't dependent on power but the curl. Same with Messi and other curlers.

Nope. The curl of a ball is determined by the amont of lateral spins(rotations) per unit time. A ball that spins more curls more. So a bending ball has a very high number of spins per unit time. And the number of spins is determined by the part of the foot used(toe, outside, or inside foot), the position/slant of the kickers body and mostly the power behind kind. The outside and inside foot generate more spin than the toe.
Beckham used the inside foot, he also slant his body, and gave some distance to the ball to gather momentum.

Roberto carlos' banana freekick would not have been possible without the tremendous power.
The ball moved at over 200KM/H.

IKON360:
we can't really measure the power of Beckham or Messi's free kicks, but I'll say sentimentally that Messi hits with more power than Beckham. However without sentiments, curling freekicks don't need power so much. Messi's first freekick goal against Athletico Madrid when Courtois was still there, was from in impossible angle for a leftie but he scored it with a high arching shot. A lot of Beckham's freekick goals weren't dependent on power but the curl. Same with Messi and other curlers.

Nope. The curl of a ball is determined by the amont of lateral spins(rotations) per unit time. A ball that spins more curls more. So a bending ball has a very high number of spins per unit time. And the number of spins is determined by the part of the foot used(toe, outside, or inside foot), the position/slant of the kickers body and mostly the power behind kind. The outside and inside foot generate more spin than the toe.
Beckham used the inside foot, he also slant his body, and gave some distance to the ball to gather momentum.

Roberto carlos' banana freekick would not have been possible without the tremendous power.
The ball moved at over 200KM/H.

And no, messi's goal was not about technique.
Courtois was at the left post when the ref signalled messi to take the freekick. The ball curled right through the centre before going to the top right corner.
If courtois had been around(as usual) the path of the curve would have gone right through courtois, so iit would not have been a goal. Nothing special.

Evangkatsoulis:
Nope. The curl of a ball is determined by the amont of lateral spins(rotations) per unit time. A ball that spins more curls more. So a bending ball has a very high number of spins per unit time. And the number of spins is determined by the part of the foot used(toe, outside, or inside foot), the position/slant of the kickers body and mostly the power behind kind. The outside and inside foot generate more spin than the toe.
Beckham used the inside foot, he also slant his body, and gave some distance to the ball to gather momentum.

Roberto carlos' banana freekick would not have been possible without the tremendous power.
The ball moved at over 200KM/H.

curls are not dependent on how much the ball spins, even the wind and the weight of the ball or design are also included. Jabulani of 2010 world cup curved alot and it wasn't because of how you kicked it but the ball was poorly designed. Rivellino's free kicks and Roberto Carlos' free kicks were dependent on power but it doesn't mean you need such power to apply the curve on a ball. The power is to beat the keeper and not to attain a curve. The free kick that won puskas of two years ago had a demonic curve but that doesn't mean the ball spun so much

Evangkatsoulis:
One in la liga.. One vs leverkusen in champions quarter final. That 3-0 hatrick.
One in the group stage of the 2016/17 champions league vs SPORTING CLUB. Any objection?
Let me check others.

Okay I see

Let me agree with you on this