Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! - Religion - Nairaland
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| Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 12:17pm On Dec 10, 2018 |
For those who said that Christ never endorsed tithing well i don't know if you guys read the Bible but i have an answer for you guys.. The verse below shows the stance of Christ New Living Translation Matthew 23:23 "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. My emphasis is on the last sentence...From the very words of Christ, whoever should tithe MUST not ignore Justice, mercy and faith as they are more important than tithing..But this does not negate the blessedness of tithing seeing that Christ Himself endorsed it in the above verse. Now this is the words of Jesus Himself.. and not that of any apostle or prophet.. So Freez's disciples, have you not come across any verse like this Over to you! |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Factgist: 12:19pm On Dec 10, 2018 |
True bro.. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 12:22pm On Dec 10, 2018 |
Factgist: Yeah..seems like they turn a blind eye when they encounter verses like this! |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by HappyPagan: 12:45pm On Dec 10, 2018 |
Meekha: It's my humble opinion that reasoning and logic be taught, before one is allowed to read any of the religious books. Every message has an audience, and in this verse, the audience is clearly referenced. Do Christians follow Judaism? 9 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by spongeisback: 1:07pm On Dec 10, 2018 |
Meekha: Going by your logic you're a teacher of religious law, a Pharisee and a hypocrite! 6 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by CAPSLOCKED: 1:24pm On Dec 10, 2018 |
Meekha: WE ARE NIGERIANS. NOT ISRAELIS NOR PHARISEES.  8 Likes |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 2:33pm On Dec 10, 2018 |
Meekha: When Jesus mentioned this to the Pharisees...did it occur to you that... 1) He had not fulfilled the Law at that point in time... 2) Animal sacrifices were still ongoing at the temple... Now that the Law is fulfilled... are Christians mandated to tithe? Other questions for you... Was it on record that gentiles like Ruth, Job or Cyrus tithed? Where in the Bible did God request tithe to be paid MONETARILY? Tithers are required to eat their tithe in the presence of the Lord as per Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29... why isn't this preached in the church? Note: That I and some others share the same views on Freeze concerning tithing doesn't necessarily make us his disciples... cheers 4 Likes |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 9:29am On Dec 11, 2018 |
HappyPagan: And it also is my humble opinion that adequate researches considering the subject matter be made to avoid being and looking stupid in a public forum like this.. I will like to ask you a question...who was the first person to tithe?? Was he also under the Jewish law when he tithed?? What was the motivation behind his actions when he tithed?? Pls answer these questions and stop being stupid.. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 9:31am On Dec 11, 2018 |
OkCornel: Tithing is for everyone and not for the Jews alone.. Abraham tithed to the Priest Melchizedek who was also a form a Christ outside the Jewish law...Abraham preceded the Jewish law and he tithed....what other lame explanation can you give?? |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 9:33am On Dec 11, 2018 |
CAPSLOCKED: Was Abraham an Israeli or a Pharisee when he tithed?? I guess you've never been told..Read the Book of Genesis again.. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 9:36am On Dec 11, 2018 |
spongeisback: So ur beclouded sense of judgment also implies that Abraham who was the first to scripturally tithe even though he was not a Jew or a Pharisee was a hypocrite?? Wonderful.. Pls goan read ur Bible before you come here and disgrace yourself again |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 9:45am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Meekha: If tithing is for EVERYONE... Open your Bible and please show us where the following gentiles tithed 1) Job 2) Ruth 3) Cyrus Please show us where anyone of non-Jewish descent gave tithes and was mandated by God to do so. Check the Old or New testament and show us. I'd also like to have evidence of where the early Christians were required to give tithes and where they actually gave tithe. Show us biblical examples Also show us where God instructed tithes to be given monetarily...as opposed to crops and livestock I assume I am discussing with someone mature...there's no need for insults to pass across your point! 2 Likes |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 10:00am On Dec 11, 2018 |
OkCornel: This response of yours is clearly amusing.. what were u expecting?? that the Bible should tell you every detail for you to believe?? whatever happened to the Abraham's explanation I gave?? Alright..Now I will throw this question to you... Open your Bible and show me where Ruth, Cyrus etc avoided eating the flesh of a pig since it was forbidden then and it was an ordinance of God!?? Also show me where the Bible said that they avoided tithing because they were not originally Jews! Now you've shot ursef on the foot.. Ruth converted to Judaism and made a bold declaration that " Your God shall be my God".. Did you understand the implication of that statement?? It simply means that whatevers way and methods you serve your God is the very same way I'll apply! I will do anything your God command you to do which also includes tithing! With all due respect sir, this response is not honestly what I was expecting seeing that it holds no water.. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:18am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Meekha: Ogbeni... please show us where the aforementioned gentiles tithed and stop assuming to fill in the gaps... Now are you aware that not even all the Jews gave tithes? Only farmers and livestock owners tithed. By the way, please we are still waiting for your evidence of where gentiles gave tithes, or where God mandated gentiles to also give tithes. In my subsequent posts, I will show you how God mandated tithing to be done...then you'll see if what these Pentecostal fraudsters are doing today in anyway aligns with such! 1 Like |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Meekha(m): 10:25am On Dec 11, 2018 |
OkCornel: Pls permit me to believe that you didn't see my posts clearly..I brought to table the fact that Abraham tithed and he wasn't a Jew let alone being a Pharisee and you turned a blind eye.. That's my evidence sir.. Abraham the Father of us all who we are supposed to emulate did it and I think that it's serious wisdom to do what you see your father doing esp if it's something good!! Pls sir, did God command Abraham to tithe before he did  Pls open your Bible and show me..Show me also where the gentiles who converted to Judaism was mandated by God Almighty not to tithe...If you can answer these questions honestly then you'll see the need to go back to your Bible and study more..After all wisdom is justified by her children |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:33am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Meekha: And if we're to go by Abraham's example that means; 1) We are to tithe only once in our lifetime instead of tithing every month 2) Tithe from the booty of war instead of our personal income or possessions Isn't it? Besides, I can see you have clearly avoided a question I asked. Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 clearly instructs tithers to eat their tithe in the presence of the Lord...why isn't this preached in most of these Pentecostal churches? 1 Like |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:35am On Dec 11, 2018 |
If you insist on tithing... let me refresh your memory on how the Jews tithed after God gave them the Law through Moses; Tithes in Judaism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Tithing in the Temple The tithe is specifically mentioned in the Books of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The tithe system was organized in a seven-year cycle, the seventh-year corresponding to the Shemittah-cycle in which year tithes were broken-off, and in every third and sixth-year of this cycle the Second tithe replaced with the Poor man's tithe. These tithes were in reality more like taxes for the people of Israel and were mandatory, not optional giving. This tithe was distributed locally "within thy gates" (Deuteronomy 14:28) to support the Levites and assist the poor. Every year, Bikkurim, Terumah, Ma'aser Rishon and Terumat Ma'aser were separated from the grain, wine and oil (Deuteronomy 14:22). Initially, the commandment to separate tithes from one's produce only applied when the entire nation of Israel had settled in the Land of Israel. The Returnees from the Babylonian exile who had resettled the country were a Jewish minority, and who, although they were not obligated to tithe their produce, put themselves under a voluntary bind to do so, and which practice became obligatory upon all. 1 Like |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:35am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Terumah (Heave-offering) The first obligation that was incumbent upon an Israelite or Jew was to separate from his harvested grain (wheat, barley, spelt, etc.), wine (including unpressed grapes) and oil (including unpressed olives) the one-fiftieth portion of these products (or one-fortieth, if he were a man of generosity; and one-sixtieth if he were stingy) and to give the same to a man of Aaron's lineage (priestly stock), who, in turn, would eat such fruits in a state of ritual cleanness, in accordance with a biblical command, "...and let him not eat of the holy things, until he bathes his flesh in water. And when the sun goes down down, he will be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things because it is his food" (Leviticus 22:6). This obligation was contingent upon the fact that such fruits grew in the Land of Israel. Later, the Rabbis made it an obligation to do the same for all fruits and vegetables grown in the Land of Israel, and not only to such fruits as grain, grapes and olives. With the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of ritual purity, the obligation to separate the Terumah continued unabated, although it was no longer given to a priest of Aaron's lineage, since bodily defilement was now pervasive. The general practice after the Temple's destruction was to separate the Terumah from all fruits and vegetables by removing even the slightest portion thereof, and to immediately discard it by burial or some other means of disposal (since it can no longer be eaten in the current state of ritual uncleanness, and those doing so would make themselves liable to extirpation). 2 Likes |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:36am On Dec 11, 2018 |
First tithe The first tithe is giving of one tenth of the remaining agricultural produce (after removing from the produce the standard Terumah) to the Levite (or Aaronic priests). Historically, during the First Temple period, the first tithe was given to the Levites. Approximately at the beginning of the Second Temple construction, Ezra and his Beth din implemented its giving to the kohanim. The Levites, also known as the Tribe of Levi, were descendants of Levi. They were assistants to the Aaronic priests (who were the children of Aaron and, therefore, a subset of the Tribe of Levi) and did not own or inherit a territorial patrimony (Numbers 18:21-28). Their function in society was that of temple functionaries, teachers and trusted civil servants who supervised the weights and scales and witnessed agreements. The goods donated from the other Israeli tribes were their source of sustenance. They received from "all Israel" a tithe of food or livestock for support, and in turn would set aside a tenth portion of that tithe (known as the Terumat hamaaser) for the Aaronic priests. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:38am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Second tithe Unlike other offerings which were restricted to consumption within the tabernacle, the second tithe could be consumed anywhere within the Walls of Jerusalem. On years one, two, four and five of the Shemittah-cycle, God commanded the Children of Israel to take a second tithe that was to be brought to the place of the Temple (Deuteronomy 14:23). The owner of the produce was to separate and bring 1/10 of his finished produce to the Old City of Jerusalem, after separating Terumah and the first tithe, but if the family lived too far from Jerusalem, the tithe could be redeemed upon coins (Deuteronomy 14:24-25). Then, the Bible required the owner of the redeemed coins to spend the tithe "to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish" (Deuteronomy 14:26). Implicit in the commandment was an obligation to spend the coins on items meant for human consumption. Poor man's tithe In years three and six of the Shemittah-cycle the Israelites set aside the (second) tithe instead as the poor tithe, and it was given to the strangers, orphans, and widows. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:38am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Terumat maaser Terumat hamaaser was given by the Levite to the Kohen, and was one-tenth of what the Levite had received of the First-tithe. It is alluded to in the Hebrew Bible under the words, "a tithe (tenth) of the tithe" (Numbers 18:26). It, too, was considered Terumah, and was eaten by priests in a state of ritual cleanness. Today, the Terumat maaser is discarded because of general uncleanness, just as the Terumah is now discarded. Demai Demai (Mishnaic Hebrew: דמאי) is a Halakhic term meaning "dubious," referring to agricultural produce, the owner of which was not trusted with regard to the correct separation of the tithes assigned to the Levites, although the terumah (the part designated unto priests) was believed to have been separated from such fruits. In such "dubious" cases, all that was necessary was to separate the one-tenth portion due to the priests from the First Tithe given to the Levites, being the 1/100th part of the whole. The Second Tithe is also removed (redeemed) from the fruit in such cases of doubt. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:39am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Places that require tithing The criterion for determining what places require the tithing of produce is any place within the country that was held by the Returnees from the Babylonian exile, as defined in the "Baraita of the Boundaries" of the Land of Israel;although today the land might be held by a different entity, or else worked by non-Jews, produce grown in those places would still require the separation of tithes when they come into the hand of an Israelite or Jew. Tithes are broken-off during the Sabbatical year (such as when the ground lies fallow), during which year, all fruits, grains and vegetables that are grown of themselves in that year are considered free and ownerless property. For example, whatever lands were held by those returning from the Babylonian exile at the time of Ezra are forbidden to be ploughed and sown by any Jew during the Seventh year, and even if gentiles were to plough such land and sow it, the produce would be forbidden unto Jews to eat. On the other hand, the extension of such lands held by the people of Israel who departed Egypt and who entered the Land of Canaan under their leader, Joshua, are forbidden to be ploughed by any Jew during the Seventh year, but if gentiles had ploughed such land and sown it, the produce is permitted to be eaten by a Jew. If on a regular week-year, fruits and grains and vegetables, if grown by an Israelite in these places, would require tithing. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:40am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Cattle tithe An additional tithe mentioned in the Book of Leviticus (27:32-33) is the cattle tithe, which is to be sacrificed as a korban at the Temple in Jerusalem. Ma'aser kesafim Ma'aser kesafim is a tithe that Jews give to charity (tzedakah), something that is done on a voluntary basis, as this practice has not been regulated in Jewish codes of law. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by OkCornel(m): 10:51am On Dec 11, 2018 |
One of the biggest folly I've seen amongst pro-tithers is using Abraham's voluntary one-off transaction from the spoils of war with Melchizedek before the Mosaic Law as a basis that Christians must keep on tithing from their personal income even long after the Mosaic Law... These pro-tithers can't show one bible verse where early Christians practiced tithing They can't show us where Gentiles were instructed by God to tithe They can't show us where God asked for tithes in form of money! Big time deceit I tell ya! Now, if Christians ought to tithe...then what should we make of Paul's position on giving? Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver - 2 Corinthians 9 v 7. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by adelee777: 10:58am On Dec 11, 2018 |
Meekha:Awww. Sorry bro. Thanks for reminding the Pharisees were Christians. 1 Like |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by spongeisback: 12:47pm On Dec 11, 2018 |
Meekha: I guess your own point flew over your head. You quoted a scripture and I helped you see other parts of it you deliberately choose to ignore. You can't just pick and choose. One minute you're talking about Christ the next Abraham, it shows you've not even read your bible. Bringing Abraham up means you're desperate, he tithed once in his life, out from WAR BOOTY. So tell me again between you and I, who is been disgraced? 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Originakalokalo(m): 1:30pm On Dec 11, 2018 |
Many people are not really concerned about the finances of the church and how it is spent..... They are just enemies of God in their innermost part. They could not understand the concept of Christianity and are irritated by the faith of Jesus. They are also jealous of the prosperity of the body of Christ. Then, they criticise the Church with every opportunity they have and HOPE that people will fall out of the church.. Unfortunately for them, they have achieved nothing and will achieve nothing... Jesus said. The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the church.... These people are the gates of hell. The devil is simply using them to draw away people from the faith and to cut out the means of funding the church . .. Well, I have a bad news for them... The alpha and omega has spoken. Who shall annul it? He has pronounced that the gates of hell shall work in vain... Who can bring his promises to nothing? They can only try. It will be futile. The church has come to stay and stay strong. We will continue to prosper physically and spiritually. The devil himself tried to kill all the twelve apostles....they finished their works and left hundreds after them..... Hundreds birthed thousands and millions. Today, billions have believed and they are saved... It cannot be stopped. Jesus is Lord. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Geesaintagape: 2:58pm On Dec 11, 2018 |
Tithing wahala again. Sabbath law proceeded all yet we don't talk about it cos no money involved. God never paid tithe yet he kept Sabbath holy n u are here pursuing tithing agenda my dear u can only deceive itself. Sabbath, tithes,etc is not of xtian |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by adelee777: 4:14pm On Dec 11, 2018 |
OP thanks a lot for letting me know the Pharisees were Christians. 5 Likes |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by CAPSLOCKED: 5:49pm On Dec 11, 2018 |
Originakalokalo: I FIND IT HARD TO UNDERSTAND HOW EASY IT IS FOR BELIEVERS TO ACCEPT AND HOLD ON TO THEIR BELIEFS, DESPITE AVAILABLE OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT WHAT THEY'RE BELIEVING COULD BE FALSE. 3 Likes |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Originakalokalo(m): 5:59pm On Dec 11, 2018 |
CAPSLOCKED: There is no possibility of falsehood in Christianity..No, never. Jesus is Lord. |
| Re: Freeze's Disciples Please Gather Here!!!! by Originakalokalo(m): 6:19pm On Dec 11, 2018 |
CAPSLOCKED: I read somewhere that you were Catholic and a seminarian. Your case is beyond anyone preaching to you.... That's why I don't even try... Its God that can settle your case .... Else, you are lost FOREVER. Yours is Apostasy. |
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