₦airaland Forum

Ladies and Gentlemen , first off - a very happy Christmas to you and yours.

I put it to you today, that if you think very deeply about this thing called Penal Substitution and analyse it properly, you will come to the conclusion that NO MAN on this earth can die for the sins of another man and this extends to the person of Jesus Christ who was a MAN when he walked this earth.

If we are truly made in the image of God , then we can say with certainty that we are imbued with his sense of what justice truly is. Imagine if a man takes another man's life , is taken to court and acquitted because the son of the judge decided to take punishment for this man. There will be an uproar, in fact there will be a huge riot in the court because justice has not been served and the man who committed one murder might go on to commit another murder because he was not held to account for his sins. Is this not total madness and insanity, who can believe this but the brainwashed or indoctrinated but confused intellectuals.

You see my beloved folk, this is why Christians sin , repent , sin repent and keep sinning and repenting - because no matter how much evil they have or may commit, it is all covered with the blood of Jesus. No matter how much adultery , robbery, lying and evil these people perpetrate, they are forever innocent by the blood of Jesus. This is a truly insane doctrine.

Lets examine this these Scripture ;

"Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin" - Deuteronomy 24:16

"Yet he did not put the sons of the murderers to death, according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded: "Fathers must not be put to death for their children, and children must not be put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin" - 2 Kings 14:6

"Instead, each will die for his own iniquity. If anyone eats the sour grapes, his own teeth will be set on edge" - Jeremiah 31:30

This things called Penal Substitution is just another excuse for lawlessness and evil. Do not believe it , it is false.

Jesus cannot take away your sins, you must be willing to do good yourself and avoid evil if you want to be counted righteousness.

Stop this nonsense about Jesus blood washing away your sins, it is gross misrepresentation of reality and is nothing less than a MYTH.

I kinda want to cut all my hair off but I haven't yet found the proper crisis for the occasion. But after reading this......

tsephanyah:
I kinda want to cut all my hair off but I haven't yet found the proper crisis for the occasion. But after reading this......

Please don't

At frosbel2 u must understand that evem though Jesus was a man he is also God!! What that means is that he posseses every attribute of God That makes God, God!!
Also that example u used does is not similar to Subs. Penal subs. Penal subs. Is only effective under a Convenant what this means is that just like it was only those jews who were faithful to God and obedient to his covenant with Isreal was covered by the atonement,so also its only True christians who have a Relationship with God through accepting Jesus are covered by Penal subs. So not every dick, tom or harry who goes to church enjoys the benefits of Jesus atonement for Sin. So therefore A person receiver Penal substitution by beleiving and receiving Jesus as his Saviour but continues to enjoy Penal Substitution in exchange for being obedient to the dictates of the New Convenant

Also u must understand the whole concept of penal restitution in order to beleive that it is Just...

You shall know the truth, and it shall set you free. truth will tell you that on that day many people will say I did this, I did that. but Christ will answer get thee behind me ye workers of iniquity. truth will also tell you that" I come quickly and my reward is with me to give every man according to his work" truth will tell you that if you die in sin you will not enter into the kingdom. Now that's what we need. because his word his that. "My people are perished for lack of knowledge" if we didn't lack knowledge we would know what his word says in 1st John 3:1-10. care to open and find out what's there? so many people have been deceived using grace. Grace cannot take you to the kingdom. it's your work. what grace does is giving every man second chance to come to repentance.

Mikefrik:
You shall know the truth, and it shall set you free. truth will tell you that on that day many people will say I did this, I did that. but Christ will answer get thee behind me ye workers of iniquity. truth will also tell you that" I come quickly and my reward is with me to give every man according to his work" truth will tell you that if you die in sin you will not enter into the kingdom. Now that's what we need. because his word his that. "My people are perished for lack of knowledge" if we didn't lack knowledge we would know what his word says in 1st John 3:1-10. care to open and find out what's there? so many people have been deceived using grace. Grace cannot take you to the kingdom. it's your work. what grace does is giving every man second chance to come to repentance.

oh please stop parroting the nonsense you have been brainwashed with !!

frosbel2:
Ladies and Gentlemen , first off - a very happy Christmas to you and yours.

I put it to you today, that if you think very deeply about this thing called Penal Substitution and analyse it properly, you will come to the conclusion that NO MAN on this earth can die for the sins of another man and this extends to the person of Jesus Christ who was a MAN when he walked this earth.

If we are truly made in the image of God , then we can say with certainty that we are imbued with his sense of what justice truly is. Imagine if a man takes another man's life , is taken to court and acquitted because the son of the judge decided to take punishment for this man. There will be an uproar, in fact there will be a huge riot in the court because justice has not been served and the man who committed one murder might go on to commit another murder because he was not held to account for his sins. Is this not total madness and insanity, who can believe this but the brainwashed or indoctrinated but confused intellectuals.

You see my beloved folk, this is why Christians sin , repent , sin repent and keep sinning and repenting - because no matter how much evil they have or may commit, it is all covered with the blood of Jesus. No matter how much adultery , robbery, lying and evil these people perpetrate, they are forever innocent by the blood of Jesus. This is a truly insane doctrine.

Lets examine this these Scripture ;

"Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin" - Deuteronomy 24:16

"Yet he did not put the sons of the murderers to death, according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded: "Fathers must not be put to death for their children, and children must not be put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin" - 2 Kings 14:6

"Instead, each will die for his own iniquity. If anyone eats the sour grapes, his own teeth will be set on edge" - Jeremiah 31:30

This things called Penal Substitution is just another excuse for lawlessness and evil. Do not believe it , it is false.

Jesus cannot take away your sins, you must be willing to do good yourself and avoid evil if you want to be counted righteousness.

Stop this nonsense about Jesus blood washing away your sins, it is gross misrepresentation of reality and is nothing less than a MYTH.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE EFFICACY OF "CURSES" AND THEIR GENERATIONAL EFFECTS ?

enilove:
DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE EFFICACY OF "CURSES" AND THEIR GENERATIONAL EFFECTS ?

To an extent - depending on what you actually mean !!

Mikefrik:
You shall know the truth, and it shall set you free. truth will tell you that on that day many people will say I did this, I did that. but Christ will answer get thee behind me ye workers of iniquity. truth will also tell you that" I come quickly and my reward is with me to give every man according to his work" truth will tell you that if you die in sin you will not enter into the kingdom. Now that's what we need. because his word his that. "My people are perished for lack of knowledge" if we didn't lack knowledge we would know what his word says in 1st John 3:1-10. care to open and find out what's there? so many people have been deceived using grace. Grace cannot take you to the kingdom. it's your work. what grace does is giving every man second chance to come to repentance.

What is Truth ? Jesus is not the way , the truth and the life.

There is only one Truth that is universally applicable.

frosbel2:
What is Truth ? Jesus is not the way , the truth and the life.

There is only one Truth that is universally applicable.

You are deceiving yourself, I won't argue this with you. I just pray the Holy spirit rescues you before it's too late. so you won't say had I known. But let me ask u this question- which religion do you belong to?

These people do not know God. Their reasoning is darkened and cannot comprehend the things of God...

They quote scriptures and interpret at will.

Let me give answers to what the OP posted....

All these are scriptural. If anyone needs biblical reference, please let me know.

When Adam fell, all mankind and creation fell....

We inherit sin through Adam even though we never saw him before...

God asked the children of Israel to atone for their sins through substitution with A Blameless Animal....

It is a process where the sinner puts his hand on the animal while the animal takes his guilt. Then the blood of the animal is used to atone for the sinnner's sin. ..

God instituted this principle of substitution....

The animal takes the sins of the sinner

Now, this would have been a continuous means of atonement except that it doesn't guarantee holiness of the heart.... This is due to the nature of man's free will.

God of Israel then promised to write the laws in the heart of men through his Spirit.He promised a new covenant.

This is the new covenant , Jesus replaced the blameless animal . He is blameless in birth... Not born like the ordinary men... and sinless throughout his stay in the world.

His blood thus atone for the sins of whoever "puts his hand on him" by believing.

At death, the veil that covered the holy of holies, where the sprinkling of the blood of animals took place, got torn into two...

The blood of Jesus thus "writes God's law in our hearts " by the giving of the Holy Spirit that works in us. This is the new covenant.

Now, everyone has access to God's throne through the blood of the lamb.

A CENTRAL AND SINGULAR sacrifice is needed if the sins of billions of people will be removed.

If we are all supposed to go to Jerusalem for atonemnemt of sins, all the Christians in the world..... You can only imagine the population...

...and the sacrifice has to be done together every year at. once and individualy throughout the days of the year as the need arise.

A central and singular sacrifice is better and convenient for a universal church.

God used the blood of animals for the sins of Israel, and the blood of his only begotten son for the remission of sins of the world.


" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "
(John 3: 16)

Through Adam sin entered the world.

Through Jesus, righteousness entered the world.

This is Yahweh's doing and it is marvelous in our sights.

This doing of God is for those of us who have been enlightened by his Spirit and thus have our sights OPENED.

frosbel2:
Ladies and Gentlemen , first off - a very happy Christmas to you and yours.

I put it to you today, that if you think very deeply about this thing called Penal Substitution and analyse it properly, you will come to the conclusion that NO MAN on this earth can die for the sins of another man and this extends to the person of Jesus Christ who was a MAN when he walked this earth.

If we are truly made in the image of God , then we can say with certainty that we are imbued with his sense of what justice truly is. Imagine if a man takes another man's life , is taken to court and acquitted because the son of the judge decided to take punishment for this man. There will be an uproar, in fact there will be a huge riot in the court because justice has not been served and the man who committed one murder might go on to commit another murder because he was not held to account for his sins. Is this not total madness and insanity, who can believe this but the brainwashed or indoctrinated but confused intellectuals.

You see my beloved folk, this is why Christians sin , repent , sin repent and keep sinning and repenting - because no matter how much evil they have or may commit, it is all covered with the blood of Jesus. No matter how much adultery , robbery, lying and evil these people perpetrate, they are forever innocent by the blood of Jesus. This is a truly insane doctrine.

Lets examine this these Scripture ;

"Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin" - Deuteronomy 24:16

"Yet he did not put the sons of the murderers to death, according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded: "Fathers must not be put to death for their children, and children must not be put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin" - 2 Kings 14:6

"Instead, each will die for his own iniquity. If anyone eats the sour grapes, his own teeth will be set on edge" - Jeremiah 31:30

This things called Penal Substitution is just another excuse for lawlessness and evil. Do not believe it , it is false.

Jesus cannot take away your sins, you must be willing to do good yourself and avoid evil if you want to be counted righteousness.

Stop this nonsense about Jesus blood washing away your sins, it is gross misrepresentation of reality and is nothing less than a MYTH.

let me educate you on your ignorance. What jesus did is like a rich man given a poor man a bank cheque in his name. If the poor man goes to the bank with the cheque, he cash the money. The poor man can also decide not to go to the bank with the cheque. So the cheque in this case becomes useless to him even though it was valid. So jesus died and gave us a cheque of righteousness. We can decide to use the cheque or not. It only works for those that believe the cheque by going to the bank with it.

Originakalokalo:
These people do not know God. Their reasoning is darkened and cannot comprehend the things of God...

They quote scriptures and interpret at will.

Let me give answers to what the OP posted....

All these are scriptural. If anyone needs biblical reference, please let me know.

When Adam fell, all mankind and creation fell....

We inherit son through Adam even though we never saw him before...

God asked the children of Israel to atone for their sins through substitution with A Blameless Animal....

It is a process where the sinner puts his hand on the animal while the animal takes his guilt. Then the blood of the animal is used to atone for the sinnner's sin.

Now, this would have been a continuous means of atonement except that it doesn't guarantee holiness of the heart.... This is due to the nature of man's free will.

God of Israel then promised to write the laws in the heart of men through his Spirit.He promised a new covenant.

This is the new covenant , Jesus replaced the blameless animal . He is blameless in birth... Not born like the ordinary men... and sinless throughout his stay in the world.

His blood thus atone for the sins of whoever "puts his hand on him" by believing.

At death, the veil that covered the holy of holies, where the sprinkling of the blood of animals took place, got torn into two...

The blood of Jesus thus "writes God's law in our hearts " by the giving of the Holy Spirit that works in us. This is the new covenant.

Now, everyone has access to God's throne through the blood of the lamb.

A CENTRAL AND SINGULAR sacrifice is needed if the sins of billions of people will be removed.

If we are all supposed to go to Jerusalem for atonemnemt of sins, all the Christians in the world..... You can only imagine the population...

...and the sacrifice has to be done together every year at. once and individualy throughout the days of the year as the need arise.

A central and singular sacrifice is better and convenient for a universal church.

God used the blood of animals for the sins of Israel, and the blood of his only begotten son for the remission of sins of the world.


" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "
(John 3: 16)

Through Adam sin entered the world.

Through Jesus, righteousness entered the world.

This is Yahweh's doing and it is marvelous in our sights.

This doing of God is for those of us who have been enlightened by his Spirit and thus have our sights OPENED.

You didn't tell them Israel is equivalent to the present day saints. They will argue that for another two pages.

Kenneth4u205:
let me educate you on your ignorance. What jesus did is like a rich man given a poor man a bank cheque in his name. If the poor man goes to the bank with the cheque, he cash the money. The poor man can also decide not to go to the bank with the cheque. So the cheque in this case becomes useless to him even though it was valid. So jesus died and gave us a cheque of righteousness. We can decide to use the cheque or not. It only works for those that believe the cheque by going to the bank with it.

You want to educate me on my ignorance by displaying an even greater ignorance on what true justice really means ? Did you even read what I wrote.

Besides, what type of justice permits your fellow believers to keep cashing the cheques of righteousness while continuing to commit and perpetrate all manner of evil; from so called men of god scamming their members and living lives of unbridled lust to the members who produce fruits of criticism,judgementalism, envy, hatred and pride. Do you really think God is deceived by this madness ?

God of Israel instituted the principle of substitution.

Animals took the place of an Israelite sinner....

God accepted that.

Jesus took the place of a sinner on the cross.

You access the cleansing power of the blood of Jesus through faith..

No man can see God....even with a single sin, no one can stand in the presence of the almighty God.


That's why atonement for sins is necessary.

Originakalokalo:
God of Israel instituted the principle of substitution.

Animals took the place of an Israelite sinner....

God accepted that.

Jesus took the place of a sinner on the cross.

You access the cleansing power of the blood of Jesus through faith..

No man can see God....even with a single sin, no one can stand in the presence of the almighty God.


That's why atonement for sins is necessary.

God does not need blood to forgive SINs - read your bible again !

Jeremiah 31:34
Micah 7:18
Micah 7:19
Isaiah 43:25

frosbel2:
God does not need blood to forgive SINs - read your bible again !

Jeremiah 31:34
Micah 7:18
Micah 7:19
Isaiah 43:25

If you were a Christian I would have asked you to go back and start reading the bible from the book of Genesis...

But you are not. The one you have read has no meaning to you...

God commanded Israel to sacrifice animals for atonement.... It is everywhere in the old testament...

Check the book of Leviticus etc.


God, in those scriptures you quoted wanted genuine remorse for sin and genuine repentance, not only sacrifice.

He didn't stop the sacrifice of animals, not until Jesus came.

Originakalokalo:
If you were a Christian I would have asked you to go back and start reading the bible from the book of Genesis...

But you are not. The one you have read has no meaning to you...

God commanded Israel to sacrifice animals for atonement.... It is everywhere in the old testament...

Check the book of Leviticus etc.


God, in those scriptures you quoted wanted genuine remorse for sin and genuine repentance, not only sacrifice.

He didn't stop the sacrifice of animals, not until Jesus came.

The Jews disagree with you about the necessity of blood for forgiveness. It is their book.

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/blood-atonement/