Bondinus:

During the time of the first Christians, if Peter wasn't around, maybe arrested as it was customary then, will fellowship hold or not, if it will. Why can't the pastor delegate someone to startup till he comes?

alBHAGDADI:


Look dude, I don't own a church neither do I attend one, though I've decided to start attending a Baptist Church next year. So, this your talk of me trying to protect my business doesn't hold water. I'm actually trying to protect God's business which is the church. Or don't you know that the church is God's business? Listen to what the Son of God himself said below when Mary and Joseph came to look for him in the temple of God.

Luke 2:49
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

alBHAGDADI:


Did he now say he will just start having mercy and blessing people anyhow? Or perhaps you think he will abandon his obedient children and bless the disobedient ones?

Lizzie082:
to all those planning on giving their first fruit (capital that could make them millionaires by December ) remember you've got bills to pay, ask yourself who does the pastor give his own first fruit to, the answer is no one he invests it, buys his wife expensive cars and tell lies from the pulpit that he saved to buy it, don't forget also that it's all a scam if you must give remember your family members, that first fruit would make a lot of difference in their lives.

God can never be bribed

Lol
this is 2019
# we.can.no.longer.be.deceived
have a blessed day

tesppidd:
Honestly I have a problem with people giving their monies to pastors and tagging it "giving money to God"

Eres94:

answer this please

Are pastors relevant today ? (if so)

Aren't they entitled to fruits of the tithe ?

Are you actually giving it to them or in honor to God?

Are they forcing you at gun point to pay it ?

don't you have free will ?

Do you pay tax ?

Why do you pay tax ?

who do you pay tax to ?

is it your fault when a corrupt political office holder embezzles the public generated funds ?

can you liken this illustration with the pastor & kingdom of God ?

if you found your answer good for you

alBHAGDADI:


Have you done what the early Christians did, i.e sell your land or house to give to the church?

stanliwise:
what you are actually doing is cloaking. you are hiding under the irrelevant and dubious questions. I catch u..

Eres94:


am not hiding anything... what do you want to know
its good to give to the poor and to the house of God
but show love...the difference is the former is about care & brotherhood but the other is honor

you just want to argue bro...not cool be a light, be balanced and let's stop this bickering.. we can't be a righteous example out there if we are divided on what God's will is and isn't

alBHAGDADI:


Was it everyday God uses a Raven to feed Elijah?

They love to talk of free will giving as if it goes beyond the dirty and torn N100 note they squeeze into the offering plate.

I can bet that 95% of the people commenting on this thread have not giving more than 0.1% of their salary to church in 2018. Was it 0.1% the appostles used to feed their family?

biodunid:
The wahala with you guys and your fundamental sleight of hand is to teach that the only way to give to God is through pastors / church which is quite contrary to what Jesus taught us all in Mat 25: 31-46. Pls read it below and be reminded how Jesus wants us to give to him and serve him.

Meanwhile I know a fellow who just did several transfers this morning. First was to set up 12 recurring transfers of N40k each to his brother who is in his 70s but has fallen on hard times despite having blessed the whole family when the going was good. Second was a N100k transfer to his neighbour who is ill and also not in good shape financially. Pls note he is not on good terms with the neighbour politically. Third was 12 recurring transfers of N15k each to a cousin who is a struggling widow with two kids. Fourth is N180k to a female cousin in her 70s who is childless and not too able economically. Fifth is N360k to a cousin he wronged in childhood so this is more of ongoing reparation. Pls note that today isn't an extraordinary day for him as he generally provides for the needs of those around him as God has blessed him.

Question is: Can we say this fellow would have complied better with the words of Jesus in Mat 25 and elsewhere if he had given all this money to some overfed pastor who had deceived him by claiming to be the only way to God? We should read our bibles pali to pali and stop being made merchandise of.

Parable of The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Eres94:


bro...God created everything... and it all bends to his will, he is more intelligent and wiser than us n other creature.. and we a reflection of that creator
Satan (Lucifer) could easily had be you or I..or maybe Adam or Christ... why because of free will which carries the consequence of probability meaning I can choose to do this or not. free will is freedom and just as the latter word suggest free-dom put an e (dome) at the end you will understand if you were in the position of a creator that there must be a limit or an extent of freedom/functionality of a creation just like you have a machine in order to function without problem. so Lucifer knowing how God set up everything manipulated some things that made a lot of mess for humanity. our Father was left with two options wipe us all out becos we were corrupted in the flesh or save us from our abnormalities which Satan caused
. and if Christ be the good thing that came out of Nazareth how much more weren't still good people in the world functioning although not at a 100% according to his will like Enoch, Abraham, Joseph, David, etc
not that these above couldn't still have fallen..but because God became their very strength, hope and salvation from their corrupted flesh, vanities of the world and principalities & powers. didn't he had to take Enoch away still alive becos of the sinful world
God is good

stanliwise:
Hehehe still cloaking again. The ultimate question is IS TITHING AND FIRST FRUIT A COMMANDMENT TO CHRISTAINS(CHRIST FOLLOWERS) or is it something you do based on convinction and choice.

alBHAGDADI:
People who speak against giving of firstfruits love to act like the Bible doesn't contain anything about giving firstfruits. It clearly shows that they don't even read their Bible. They know nothing but act like they know it all.

Firstfruits also means firstlings. Below is Abel giving his firstling to God who got pleased by the act.

Genesis 4:4
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:


Below is the book of wisdom advising you to honor God with your firstfruit.

Proverbs 3:9
9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.


All who are against giving firstfruit to God are the same people against tithing. Yet they love to boast about freewill giving. Do they think the dirty N100 note they squeeze into the offering plate is what is enough to even power a Church's generator? When was the last time you gave God anything above 10%? I doubt you did such this year. Yet you sit down in an air-conditioned church, enjoy the music and the nourishing word of God without blessing God in return. Don't you know that the activities in the church is powered by other people's firstfruits?

You might say why does God need your money. He doesn't need your money, he only needs his own money. That money which you claim is yours is not really yours because everything on earth belongs to God. He gave you the money and wants just a small fraction from it. Some might also say they never saw God while they were working hard for the money, so why should they believe he gave them the money. If God had stroke you dead or caused you to be sacked, would you be counting the money? Don't you know that there are people better qualified for that job of yours than you, yet God let you have it?

If you don't pay your tithe or firsrfruits, don't worry you will still pay it later. God has a way of getting what belongs to him.

Leviticus 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord

Mark 12:17
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Since you don't want to give willingly what belongs to God, then he will take it out of you in one way or another. Let me tell you a story about the children of Israel. God told them to farm on the land for 6years then allow the land to rest on the 7th year. They disobeyed God and ignored his commandment. God left them alone for a while, which possibly must have made them feel God was bluffing when he gave the command.

Do you know what God did? He calculated all the 7th year they disregarded and it all amounted to 70 years. He now made the King of Babylon to take the children of Israel away from their land and into captivity in Babylon for 70years. That way, the land rested for 70years after which the children of Israel were now freed from captivity and returned to their land.

If you fail to give God, he will take it out of you. It's the same as a child saying she won't wash the dishes are parents told her to wash. Well, the kid will get spanked and still wash the dish. God can make you fall terribly sick such that the first fruits you were supposed to give him will be spent on medical bills. It could be common cough that will hey you hospitalized and make you spend that much. Perhaps your car breaking down regularly to the extent that you become a meal ticket to mechanics. The good part is that the doctors who treat you and the mechanics might be tithe or first fruit payers. That's how your money will end up with God even after you've been spanked.

The grouse most of those who kick against firstfruits have is mostly regarding the life of opulence pastors of today live. That's why they grumble at giving their money to such people. Well, if your pastor falls into such category, then go look for another church e.g a Baptist Church where accountability is high. We can't throw away the baby with the bath water because some pastors abuse and enrich themselves with first fruits.

If you don't want to Pay tithe or firstfruits, then it's between you and God. Just don't go about trying to persuade others from paying.

#Notice

I'm not a pastor neither do I own a church. I'm just an ordinary Nairalander like everyone else. My only mission is to protect God's business. Yes, God has a business and that business is the house of God. Ever wondered why Jesus told Mary and Joseph that he had to be by his father's business?


Luke 2:49
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Eres94:


if you love God you will keep his commandments like don't worship any other idol...the important thing here is love...and replying to your question is it is based on both...
on one hand it is a command and in the other hand it is based on choice & conviction both drawn from the foundation of love...if pastors weren't relevant today I would say tithing was irrelevant because their function in the house of God deserves a reward even God acknowledged that. so we are commanded to do so...tithing reflects appreciation to God (love) God in turn appreciates those steadfastly in his house, the priest.

appreciation (via tithing/first fruit) shouldn't be a command to we Christians but more out of choice or conviction
but it is a law on its own that must be shown or followed just like you breathe naturally (conviction).. you take in air (oxygen) and give out (carbon dioxide) but a must you do it to live (law).its called law of righteousness... it identifies you as a Christian. we live through grace but function by commands & limits. that's how God created everything



I hope I have answered your question

WaffenSS:


You said a lot but you didn't answer my question

Freewill and destiny are mutually contradictory

Which does man have?

If I have freewill, can I also be said to have destiny?

If everything I do is destined, how then can it be said I have freewill?

If freewill is an illusion, and everything is destined, why does hell exist? A man destined to sin is not responsible for his actions.


Why did god make the devil so much stronger than man, if god loves man and hates the devil?

Didn't god foresee that the devil would defy him, and lead man astray? So why did god allow the devil to get away with it?

If freewill exists, but every sin is caused by the devil who's so much more powerful than man, and god allows this, how is man responsible?

Please don't blow hot air without answering, because if you can logically answer these without the usual cowardly refrain of "god works in mysterious ways" then I'll believe everything you say.

stanliwise:

As much as you have taken out time to give lengthy explanation to drive home your point which is amazing nevertheless I strongly disagree that you associate money for helping pastor ministry and church development to tithe of the Levities and and first fruit. In the new testament, people gave even more than 10% to facilitate God works but it was clearly not out of commandments nor coercion nor relating it to first fruit or offering. so using tithe of Israelite as reference for church donation is utterly wrong and even some pastors go as far as quoting Book of Malachi as punishment for those who don't pay tithe. Happy New Year.

sshyne:


This statement shows how cunning you are.
They didn't give it to the church, they gave it to the apostles and they shared it amongst all the believers that there was no needy among them. They didn't give it to the church to buy gold or camel.

I can't believe some Christians still carried the stupidity to 2019

Eres94:



let's consider the temptation of Christ

he was destined by God to save mankind right ?
but The Lord allowed him to be tempted like job why ?
because of free will, because there was the possibility of Christ who was there in the beginning of creation just like Satan to disobey of God and deviate from his destiny...but do you think if that had happened God would simply abandon or wipe out mankind... I doubt, because if he was willing at first that means he would send another person just to get the job done.

destinies are like missions not an end itself and it can be transfered to another person if the person who had been giving the destiny deviated (disobedient & following the sinful path that attract consequences like death) i.e by free will.

sin means doing contrary to the expected way you ought to behave or going beyond what is contrary
and when such happens there are consequences that follow. imagine you made a standing fan, and designed how it will function and what its purpose was... imagine u gave it the gift of free will...n by that instead of ventilating (destiny) it begins doing something else... wouldnt it develop a fault or spoil because it did did contrary to what you expect.. thus not fulfilling its purpose (destiny)

sin is a knowledge about abnormal possibilities contrary to how we are made to function and behave.. its very spiritual and that's why Adam shouldn't have exposed himself to it. now consequently it trapped all of mankind, like an addiction forcing us to do what we may not want to. its deep bro

not everything is permanently destined, and those that are as you pointed out are like that based on "what it will be" we expect a burning bush to one day burn out right based on facts... okay then gather all the facts about this sinful & dying world and tell me why it isnt in itself destined to be destroyed and a new world established.
free will and destiny are different but are relative to each other...
Satan is a creature like you and I...rebellious trying to make a point...like a foolish child would do...in some cases as a wise parent to also set an example to the rest..
you allow him do what he wants... some will be redeemed some will be lost... that's the case of Satan.
he is strong no doubt and spear heading the rebellion
but God has his plan..n it is there for all to see in the bible

alBHAGDADI:


Stop rushing to reply me, else you will be showcasing your lack of patience. I never said poor people are those who fail to give God money. I only said their condition maybe as a result of not giving to God.

Do you know that Jesus also collected money from people? If he didn't, how come he had a treasurer called Judas Iscariot?

Do you also know that some women usually gave Jesus money?

Like 8:2-3
2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Eres94:


I get your point...but remember this when they gave it was out of love the ability giving to them by the holy spirit... it was natural not relying on any law.. just like I gave my example of breathing in & out
now answer this question, is it necessary to appreciate, contribute or give ?
the answer is yes..just as it is necessary to breathe
my point is on one hand we do it out of love (conviction) which is important but also becos it is necessary (commandment)

OkCornel:
Galatians 3 v 13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


After reading the above verses, anyone who preaches of obtaining blessings through tithes and first fruits is a cursed charlatan and fraudster!

exlinkleads:




I have not insulted anybody on Nairaland before but your ruse are pathetic.


i feel like vomiting while reading your assumptions and reply to people. You are indeed a typical example of the people God was talking abt when he said and I quote "my people perish because they lack wisdom".

How can u say the reason for poor people in Nigeria is as a result of not giving to God? were the mess did u read that?

Why not keep quiet if you don't know what to say.

alBHAGDADI:
Was it not the one that created all things? They all belong to him.

alBHAGDADI:
Was it not the one that created all things? They all belong to him.

stanliwise:
Giving is a commandment to the christain, yes, but the giving was not with rules nor measurement nor with a time frame of reference. so this contradict this tithe and first fruit of a thing. infact cheerful giving is a core part of christainity and exhibited by Christ severally and forever also it a character of God because God is love and a man who do not give do not know God and the spirit is not in him. There were cases in the bible people sold their properties, land and houses for the ministry but it was cheerful and based on their conviction and synchronization with the spirit.

alBHAGDADI:


Not giving to God means you don't acknowledge him in your life and work. Yet you expect him to acknowledge you even after you failed to give him 10% out of the 100% he gave you

babeosisi:


Then he doesn't need it from me
He created it all you said
Your pastor is the one collecting not God.make that distinction.God is not wicked
You need a reawakening g this 2019 to know you've been sold a god that receives bribe to do like God
It is your pastor collecting,wake up