Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,152,428 members, 7,815,966 topics. Date: Thursday, 02 May 2024 at 10:25 PM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? (4480 Views)
Agnosticism Is The Most Scientific answer To The Question Of A Creator / Questions I Have About The Existence Of A Creator God / If Nothing Can Exist Without A Creator, So What Created God? (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 9:56am On Feb 23, 2019 |
hahn: Christ
|
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by DoctorAlien(m): 9:59am On Feb 23, 2019 |
JeromeBlack: If you understand that the universe is currently running out of usable energy, then you'd know that proposition 1 cannot be true. For if the universe has always been here, then it would have run out of usable energy a long time ago. But even more than that, physicists now agree that the universe had a beginning. Even theories of "multiverses" and cyclic "universes "cannot be extended indefinitely into the past. A beginning must necessarily occur at one point. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by Ihedinobi3: 9:59am On Feb 23, 2019 |
johnydon22:When something is self-existing, it means that it exists because it exists. There is no cause or external explanation for its existence. This implies a will. Because if we who are contingent alter our state of existence as we please, then the Cause of all existence must of necessity be able to govern its own existence as it pleases. It cannot be insentient. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 10:02am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3:No. It doesn't imply will, that is the assumption on your part. As i said before, you are assuming the nature of this cause, you are assuming it must be sentient to be uncaused. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 10:04am On Feb 23, 2019 |
DoctorAlien:Uuuhm, no, not if it is a self-contained system. So, do you agree with everything physicists say or only when it suits your argument? Because there are several other things they say in the pravailing cosmological model that you most likely do not believe or agree with. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by Ihedinobi3: 10:06am On Feb 23, 2019 |
johnydon22:How does it not imply will? In what way can a thing self-exist, that is, it is not only uncaused but it is also unaffected by any cause and it also created the Universe ex nihilo, and still be insentient? Why is this assumption unnecessary or incorrect? 1 Like |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by Ihedinobi3: 10:10am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Good to see you, DoctorAlien. Have you been well? |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:10am On Feb 23, 2019 |
johnydon22:what is this self-contained system? 1 Like |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:10am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Yes brother. Good to see you too. Hope you've been well too. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 10:16am On Feb 23, 2019 |
DoctorAlien: It's basically self explanatory. A closed system without external influence. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:21am On Feb 23, 2019 |
johnydon22: I'm sorry but how does this relate to the unarguable fact that the universe right now is running of usable energy, and thus could not have been here since forever, or else it would have run out of usable energy a long time ago? |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by JeromeBlack: 10:28am On Feb 23, 2019 |
DoctorAlien: LIES! Our universe has a beginning if only you assume that the big bang is a beginning. Also, note that the usable energy is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. There will always be energy just not the ones useful to humans. Remember that humans are less than 0.01% of the universe. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by Ihedinobi3: 10:29am On Feb 23, 2019 |
DoctorAlien:I have been, thank you, my brother. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by MrPresident1: 10:30am On Feb 23, 2019 |
JeromeBlack: He created the well fed empty headed negro atheists too |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by JeromeBlack: 10:32am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Stability is not fundamental to eternity in this case. What we are talking about is the existence of energy. Energy has different forms and will always exist in one form or another.....for eternity. There will always be something. Why can't it also be that there has always been something. Infinite future? Then why not infinite past! You have not even gotten to half of our known universe, yet you are arguing for a being that is out of this universe. nonsense. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by JeromeBlack: 10:34am On Feb 23, 2019 |
MrPresident1: He also created his mindless christian zombies. Note that Jesus too was a zombie that came back from the dead. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:34am On Feb 23, 2019 |
JeromeBlack: When it is said that the universe had a beginning, it is meant that there was a time when the universe (matter/energy, space and time) began to exist. They were not formerly in existence. If there was a time when the universe(the totality of everything) began to exist, how is that not a beginning? |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by MrPresident1: 10:37am On Feb 23, 2019 |
JeromeBlack: You are right o, he created everything including the well fed walking talking brain dead negro atheists |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by Ihedinobi3: 10:38am On Feb 23, 2019 |
JeromeBlack:Of course there will always be something and there has always been something. I just don't see any sensible reason to believe that that thing is the physical universe. The physical universe clearly decays. There is no argument about that. That means that, say what you will about energy, it is destined to decay in perpetuity barring some intervention of an external factor that must of necessity be greater than itself. Thus, the physical universe does not self-exist. Something else made it. And it is that something else that sustains it and that can renew it or perpetuate it. As for looking for something outside the Universe when I don't know everything there is to know about the universe, that is neither here nor there. There is no reason at all to consider the Universe self-existing. That, of necessity, points to some cause outside the Universe itself. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by hahn(m): 10:40am On Feb 23, 2019 |
MrPresident1: Don't forget shameless mongers of failed prophecies |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by MrPresident1: 10:44am On Feb 23, 2019 |
hahn: Yes o, he created everything including all the well fed walking talking zombie atheists |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by JeromeBlack: 10:45am On Feb 23, 2019 |
DoctorAlien: You do realise that time is an abstract contstruct? Matter, space and energy have no bearing on time. Time exists metaphysically without the constraint of materiality. Just sit down and think of the paradox you just put yourself into. You said that there was no time before the big bang. But mathematically that is nonsensical- If Time at the big bang is represented by T If Time 1 hour after the big bang is represented by T+1 Then, we have to ask about what happened at T-1 (1 hour before the big bang) A simple question of causality can also illustrate the point- WHAT CAUSED THE BIG BANG? If something caused the big bang, then it must have happened before the big bang. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by hahn(m): 10:45am On Feb 23, 2019 |
MrPresident1: And all the impoverished and sick theists that believe in it and keeping repeating the same prayers but are still poor, hungry and die from simple diseases it cannot cure daily |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by MrPresident1: 10:50am On Feb 23, 2019 |
hahn: Yes o, including all the greedy hyenaic supporters of perversion and allthings degrading and debasing who masquerade themselves as Negro atheists |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by JeromeBlack: 10:53am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: False! The physical universe will continue to exist forever. It may not be in the form we are used to now but it will exist. You are assuming that something created the universe and sustains it. Even if that were true, it cannot be your God who is ignorant of science and cosmology. The universe exists and that is all we know. So far, there has never been any cosmic evidence for your God and he/she has never helped us humans to understand the universe......therefore, I can only believe in the universe and not your nonentity of a God. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by Evangkatsoulis: 11:04am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Please can you show links to philosophy texts that define God as a thing that is self-existing and ultimate cause/reality? |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 11:06am On Feb 23, 2019 |
DoctorAlien: Actually my counter is that an eternal universe is a self-contained system therefore wouldn't run out of energy since energy would not be lost. So, if the universe is eternal then it is a closed system. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 11:11am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Again, the premise here is self- existent, you keep make logical leaps. Something is self existent means it is uncaused and unaffected by external influence. You jump gun and make a conclusion it implies will and sentience. That is an unfounded assumption, probably typical to human propensity to anthropomorphication. "The river wants to flow downhill" You have to show how self-existence means sentient without making logical leaps and assumptions |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 11:15am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: When you say the physical universe clearly decays, what do you mean? Change? Or Diminish (in the sense it phases out of existence gradually) Pray tell. |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by Rilwayne001: 11:19am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: Succinct!! |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by johnydon22(m): 11:21am On Feb 23, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3:Another word play; what do you mean stability? Unchangeability? Order? Let me introduce you to the cosmological oscillation model. A contained system can be go through a cycle, in fact this is one of the possible end results of the present cosmological model. If our universe is self- contained, with sufficient amount of gravitational force present, then a collapse of the system is inevitable and such collapse forms a singularity which as a raw form of energy will inevitably give rise to another inflation. This is not me saying this is the case, this is show how a contained system can theoretically go through cycles without external influence You seem to make bold assumptions as absolutes and base your argument on this. Is this thing inexistent? Or is it still part of existence? |
Re: Is A Creator A Logical Conclusion? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:23am On Feb 23, 2019 |
JeromeBlack:Time is many things to many people. Surely time is not easy to deal with when origins arguments is brought on. But whatever, the case, there still has to be a beginning for time. Just sit down and think of the paradox you just put yourself into. You said that there was no time before the big bang. But mathematically that is nonsensical- There is a concept called Simultaneous Causation, and with that, the cause of time's beginning occurred when time began, i.e. cause and effect were simultaneous. |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply)
Mind Control Mechanisms In Religions. / Quotes Regarding Islam By Some Western Philosophers / Will Listening To Worldly Music Make A Christian Go To Hell?
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 72 |