₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
It doesn't have to be appealing. In fact, it is difficult to do because we are human and basically selfish.

What really do you have that is not by Providence?

People who are 100 Times better than you in intelligence are 100 times behind you. Those when are 50 times stronger than you are lagging well behind you.

1,2 and 3 all point to one thing: Continuation of Life after death.
That is the reference!
Whatever a man sows, he would reap after this life
The implication of 2 is sowing non material things like joy, peace, helps?


You don't even have to agree with it. Everything is a choice we make! Good or bad, we'll reap our investment.

Oh. When i read that it didn't occur to me that you were refering to afterlife. Another questionable topic for another day. But okay i hear you.
Still just sounds sad tho.
I read somewhere, maybe it was here on nairaland can't remember but i agreed with it. It said something like, religion, particularly relating to afterlife is for people who have failed in life. It gives them something to lool forward to. Offers comfort.

shadeyinka:
Me Feel sad?
You don't know me! Not one bit!

All things work together for my good! Not a hair from my head can fall without His permission and His thought for me is for good and not evil. I am His workmanship created in Christ Jesus.

Unfortunately, The truth is bitter: most of the times.

It's the truth that selfish/ evil people usually win in life:
How come Nigeria will not objectively vote for the best candidate?

If I seem sad, maybe it's because I speak with you.

That you don't think your life is your own. That you are free. That you have a right to life and exist in your own right. That is what I think is sad.
You may say 'yay, god is with me, makes me whole,gave me life and all that'. But underneath that you fundamentally believe that your life is not your own, there is no meaning to life, you are not whole, life is bad and everything is bad. I mean sure thank God that he makes things okay but were it not for him, all is just sadness, emptiness and suffering

shadeyinka:
Empty space is still something!?
Prove it!

Before I prove it, let's be certain we are on the same page.

Consider an empty space. Where is it? Has it got a size? What is it? Please.

Dhumancanvas:
Did he reveal his physical presence to you?
Free will as we know it is questionable but that's a topic for another day. Is it better that majority of man suffer for eternity in hell? Just to protect this notion free will?
Surely a little interference here and there would save these otherwise doomed people.
Me personally. If I saw any sign that points to God's existence beyond doubt I will convert instantly. This is just me but i strongly believe it applies to most atheist. Really just one convicing sign. Thats all it would take, just one real sign. Your God would rather watch billions march into hell?
This is the perfect, all powerful, all knowing , all good God that you worship?

Unfortunately, there is no physical sign that will convert an atheist.

The book of Revelation show that at a time, the whole world would take up arms against "the � aliens" who have taken over earth's rulership.

If God wanted to do as you want, it means that at least once a year until the end of the world, God will have to come down to scare the hell out of us.

I think you view humans as somehow important. How do you feel when you kill hundreds of millions of bacteria in your toilet? Guilty conscience?

If God is just, shouldn't that serial killer who escaped mans judgement face his judgement?
If God is just, should untouchable rulers who murdered his subjects go scott free?
The Kidnapper who tormented people for money should go free?

If everything ended here on earth, we will at best be brute animals.

Do you really think everyone in hell will suffer the same judgement?
Even those in heaven don't have the same reward: hell is Gods refuse bin. He puts people who are useless to Him there.

budaatum:
Before I prove it, let's be certain we are on the same page.

Consider an empty space. Where is it? Has it got a size? What is it? Please.

I think you are the one to answer these questions!

shadeyinka:
Unfortunately, there is no physical sign that will convert an atheist.

The book of Revelation show that at a time, the whole world would take up arms against "the � aliens" who have taken over earth's rulership.

If God wanted to do as you want, it means that at least once a year until the end of the world, God will have to come down to scare the hell out of us.

I think you view humans as somehow important. How do you feel when you kill hundreds of millions of bacteria in your toilet? Guilty conscience?

If God is just, shouldn't that serial killer who escaped mans judgement face his judgement?
If God is just, should untouchable rulers who murdered his subjects go scott free?
The Kidnapper who tormented people for money should go free?

If everything ended here on earth, we will at best be brute animals.

Do you really think everyone in hell will suffer the same judgement?
Even those in heaven don't have the same reward: hell is Gods refuse bin. He puts people who are useless to Him there.

You didn't answer my initial question actually. I asked if he has physically revealed himself to you. I think i know the answer. But the reason i asked is this: however God revealed himself to you. Why not do so to others. I often from theists that they cant convince me, that is up to god and only he will reveal himself to me when the time is right. I assume this revealing is not of a physical nature, rather an impression or feeling or something. Whatever it is, why not just do it to everyone?
You'll answer that the heart of men would not be convinced by such act or something along that line but did God try? I mean he is God right? If there is anyone that knows how to reach the heart of man, surely its their creator. But no. He just gonna sit there and watch people enter his refuse bin.

Seriously why do worship this guy lol.

He created man and created a refuse bin for his beloved creatures. You know cuz that's what a loving God does. Tosses his misguided children -who he made no attempt to guide- in his refuse bin .

He doesn't have to force anyone to do what he wants by SCARING THE HELL OUT OF THEM. What a lovely guy. He can just give them a little nudge in the right direction. You know. Like that conversation you have or thing you hear or read that lights a fire under your ass and propels/inspires you to take positive action.
You know.

Oh and to say there is nothing that can convert an atheist is untrue, unfounded and prejudice. Its that negativity raring its ugly head again. Have faith in humanity a little. Everyone has a trigger point. If you manage to hit it you can change their mind.

Dhumancanvas:
That you don't think your life is your own. That you are free. That you have a right to life and exist in your own right. That is what I think is sad.
You may say 'yay, god is with me, makes me whole,gave me life and all that'. But underneath that you fundamentally believe that your life is not your own, there is no meaning to life, you are not whole, life is bad and everything is bad. I mean sure thank God that he makes things okay but were it not for him, all is just sadness, emptiness and suffering

1. My life is a gift to me by God.
But I use it to please the giver of the gift
2. Of Course, I am free:
Just like with my earthly parent, I am free but I deal with them with love and reverence
3. I do enjoy myself, eat well, aspire for great things, hopeful and sometimes create time for relaxation and fun.( I wish I could do more here sha!)

I was speaking philosophically: just stand back and look at people around you. You'll be sorry for mankind.

On a lighter note:
In the Presidential election that took place a while ago, I took time to look at the average educational class of us voters, and I saw that we are like primary 5 students.

My conclusion: how can such a class arrive at an objective reason to vote any particular candidate. It would take either luck or another 50 years before sentiments will not be our yard stick for deciding who rules us.

The reality of life show that the best of us may never rule us.

shadeyinka:
How indeed is dead budaatum better than a dead chicken?

Why are we talking about a "dead budaatum"? Surely the one is better than the other, you can eat dead chicken for starts

shadeyinka:
You have value only when you are alive...of smiles you give and joys you spread.

"Have value only when you are alive"? Surely, that's not true! Some have no value alive and some have none dead but there's quite a lot of people who continue to add value to peoples' lives way long after they've died, or don't Fela, Marley, Aristotle, Jesus, Mohammed, Socrates, Newton and my father to name a few, not continue to add immense value to peoples lives today long after they've been dead? Surely budaatum can be dead someday?

shadeyinka:
If ultimately you die after 106 years on earth. What is it to you.

106 years is a lot of time for me to live and at the end "what is it to me"! Ordinary a decade on Nairaland and I consider "what is it to me everyday", how much less a forever 106 years!

When buda dies, or at least, before, it will be a lot to me!

shadeyinka:
It's like a farmer who built the biggest farm through hardwork and didn't live to eat from it. What are all his effort for?

No, it is not! Whether he eats out of it is irrelevant, though how he could work so hard without nourishing himself from time to time from his own effort sounds rather odd a thing to do. You do know building big farms takes years of farming right? He'd likely not be starving while building "the biggest farm through hardwork" because his smaller farms would still be producing and his barns would not be empty.

It is more like a farmer who built the biggest farm through hardwork so through his efforts others do not starve!

shadeyinka:
1. My life is a gift to me by God.
But I use it to please the giver of the gift
2. Of Course, I am free:
Just like with my earthly parent, I am free but I deal with them with love and reverence
3. I do enjoy myself, eat well, aspire for great things, hopeful and sometimes create time for relaxation and fun.( I wish I could do more here sha!)

I was speaking philosophically: just stand back and look at people around you. You'll be sorry for mankind.

On a lighter note:
In the Presidential election that took place a while ago, I took time to look at the average educational class of us voters, and I saw that we are like primary 5 students.

My conclusion: how can such a class arrive at an objective reason to vote any particular candidate. It would take either luck or another 50 years before sentiments will not be our yard stick for deciding who rules us.

The reality of life show that the best of us may never rule us.

I really hope you do enjoy yourself and acknowledge and enjoy your freedom. Because really you ought to.

The 2nd part of your post is a Nigeria's problem and its probably gonna take 100 years before we may see a change for the better. Maybe after a revolution or something.

shadeyinka:
I think you are the one to answer these questions!

You can't have an empty space in the sense that you've stated. Once you've defined a space you already have something, a space, which is not, 'nothing'.

Dhumancanvas:
You didn't answer my initial question actually. I asked if he has physically revealed himself to you. I think i know the answer. But the reason i asked is this: however God revealed himself to you. Why not do so to others. I often from theists that they cant convince me, that is up to god and only he will reveal himself to me when the time is right. I assume this revealing is not of a physical nature, rather an impression or feeling or something. Whatever it is, why not just do it to everyone?
You'll answer that the heart of men would not be convinced by such act or something along that line but did God try? I mean he is God right? If there is anyone that knows how to reach the heart of man, surely its their creator. But no. He just gonna sit there and watch people enter his refuse bin.

Seriously why do worship this guy lol.

He created man and created a refuse bin for his beloved creatures. You know cuz that's what a loving God does. Tosses his misguided children -who he made no attempt to guide- in his refuse bin .

He doesn't have to force anyone to do what he wants by SCARING THE HELL OUT OF THEM. What a lovely guy. He can just give them a little nudge in the right direction. You know. Like that conversation you have or thing you hear or read that lights a fire under your ass and propels/inspires you to take positive action.
You know.

Oh and to say there is nothing that can convert an atheist is untrue, unfounded and prejudice. Its that negativity raring its ugly head again. Have faith in humanity a little. Everyone has a trigger point. If you manage to hit it you can change their mind.

Let me give an analogy:
You cleared your account and savings to purchase this latest iPhone with this super AI that confers on the phone intelligence. You wanted the phone to be like a friendly companion to you.

You got this phone only for you to discover that it doesn't recognize you as its owner. It refuses to serve your purpose in every way deliberately.

After some time, you'll leave your precious phone alone. You'll get yourself a cheap Teckno phone...and after several months, you'll throw your precious phone in the bin.



Arguments don't convert atheist. In fact, the more the argument, the more they pitch their tent against God (with no evidence).
It takes them to consider the minority reports and thus reconsider their earlier resistance against God.

The little nudges he gives are not enough for many. They want the spectacular hits.

The way it works is this: you draw near to God and then He draws closer to you.
You only really get to know God when you share your life with Him.

Except for grace, you can't reject and shut Him out while expecting Him to show up.

The spiritual world abhors a vacuum. It is either you are with God or with Satan. There is no neutrality: rejecting God is welcoming Satan as your overlord!

budaatum:
You can't have an empty space in the sense that you've stated. Once you've defined a space you already have something, a space, which is not, 'nothing'.

I think what you have is defining your boundary enclosure as space. But is it?

Dhumancanvas:
I really hope you do enjoy yourself and acknowledge and enjoy your freedom. Because really you ought to.

The 2nd part of your post is a Nigeria's problem and its probably gonna take 100 years before we may see a change for the better. Maybe after a revolution or something.

I truly hope something would happen that will reverse our national direction. I love the see a Nigeria that rewards creativity, wisdom, knowledge. A Nigeria that rewards and motivates scientists, inventors and innovators. A Nigeria where religion and ethnicity will mean nothing when leadership and opportunities are to be given. A Nigeria where hard work is valued and honoured.

I hope it not too big a dream to have.

budaatum:
Why are we talking about a "dead budaatum"? Surely the one is better than the other, you can eat dead chicken for starts


"Have value only when you are alive"? Surely, that's not true! Some have no value alive and some have none dead but there's quite a lot of people who continue to add value to peoples' lives way long after they've died, or don't Fela, Marley, Aristotle, Jesus, Mohammed, Socrates, Newton and my father to name a few, not continue to add immense value to peoples lives today long after they've been dead? Surely budaatum can be dead someday?


106 years is a lot of time for me to live and at the end "what is it to me"! Ordinary a decade on Nairaland and I consider "what is it to me everyday", how much less a forever 106 years!

When buda dies, or at least, before, it will be a lot to me!


No, it is not! Whether he eats out of it is irrelevant, though how he could work so hard without nourishing himself from time to time from his own effort sounds rather odd a thing to do. You do know building big farms takes years of farming right? He'd likely not be starving while building "the biggest farm through hardwork" because his smaller farms would still be producing and his barns would not be empty.

It is more like a farmer who built the biggest farm through hardwork so through his efforts others do not starve!

Couldn't help but laugh at your reply: a dead chicken can also least be eaten.

But who says the rest of us will get to waste: we could be food for Margots and Manure to the soil(hopefully leached out to where it is beneficial.

I agreed with most of your write-ups.

One can still be useful to the society after ones death through the present activities one does.

However, my point is that to the dead, it is meaningful if the dead can look to the earth and see the massive positive influence the little kindness done has produced. If the dead cease to exist, even the massive positive influence is meaningless.

shadeyinka:
Let me give an analogy:
You cleared your account and savings to purchase this latest iPhone with this super AI that confers on the phone intelligence. You wanted the phone to be like a friendly companion to you.

You got this phone only for you to discover that it doesn't recognize you as its owner. It refuses to serve your purpose in every way deliberately.

After some time, you'll leave your precious phone alone. You'll get yourself a cheap Teckno phone...and after several months, you'll throw your precious phone in the bin.



Arguments don't convert atheist. In fact, the more the argument, the more they pitch their tent against God (with no evidence).
It takes them to consider the minority reports and thus reconsider their earlier resistance against God.

The little nudges he gives are not enough for many. They want the spectacular hits.

The way it works is this: you draw near to God and then He draws closer to you.
You only really get to know God when you share your life with Him.

Except for grace, you can't reject and shut Him out while expecting Him to show up.

The spiritual world abhors a vacuum. It is either you are with God or with Satan. There is no neutrality: rejecting God is welcoming Satan as your overlord!

Ah so we are just tools for God's amusement. To be tossed away if we don't function properly. Meanwhile your analogy misses the fact the he made the bloody phone and programmed the AI. But as it didn't work as he liked, he said 'off to the trash with you'. The AI is sentient btw and can feel pain but what does he care, a useless tool that I created must be punished.

I didn't say argument to convince atheist. Arguments fail because your arguments are always poor and flawed, filled with unverifiable claims with no attempt at providing evidence to back what you say. How can you possibly convince anyone with a poor argument. And its funny that you who bare the burden of proof is mentioning evidence.

I said the same thing that makes you believe. The 'God revealing himself to you' thing. Why doesn't God do that to others. If little nudges don't work then a bigger nudge. You so adamant with the idea that people can't change. So your solution is 'let them all go to hell'.

Draw near to my mind abi? And the mental image that I'll called God.

So our loving creator, after failing to drop any signs of his existence except for a bunch of poeple making poor, unconvincing arguments. Will just sit down and say 'naaa, ive tried, they won't listen, let them all suffer for eternity'

shadeyinka:
I truly hope something would happen that will reverse our national direction. I love the see a Nigeria that rewards creativity, wisdom, knowledge. A Nigeria that rewards and motivates scientists, inventors and innovators. A Nigeria where religion and ethnicity will mean nothing when leadership and opportunities are to be given. A Nigeria where hard work is valued and honoured.

I hope it not too big a dream to have.

No dream is too big.
I hope so too but im not gonna stick around to find out.

shadeyinka:
Let me give an analogy:
You cleared your account and savings to purchase this latest iPhone with this super AI that confers on the phone intelligence. You wanted the phone to be like a friendly companion to you.

You got this phone only for you to discover that it doesn't recognize you as its owner. It refuses to serve your purpose in every way deliberately.

After some time, you'll leave your precious phone alone. You'll get yourself a cheap Teckno phone...and after several months, you'll throw your precious phone in the bin.



Arguments don't convert atheist. In fact, the more the argument, the more they pitch their tent against God (with no evidence).
It takes them to consider the minority reports and thus reconsider their earlier resistance against God.

The little nudges he gives are not enough for many. They want the spectacular hits.

The way it works is this: you draw near to God and then He draws closer to you.
You only really get to know God when you share your life with Him.

Except for grace, you can't reject and shut Him out while expecting Him to show up.

The spiritual world abhors a vacuum. It is either you are with God or with Satan. There is no neutrality: rejecting God is welcoming Satan as your overlord!

Speaking of which. Why do you believe in God? Why not Allah or Zues for that matter. Why not bhuddism or Hinduism. Even if its yaweh, why not Judaism. Why Christianity?
I'm hoping your answer is something more substantial than 'I was born into it'.

Have you ever thought about it? That maybe if you were born in india you would be hindu or china you would be bhuddist. And what happens to them? Your God will toss them in the trash too for being born into the wrong culture and adopting the prevailing religion of that culture?

Dhumancanvas:
Ah so we are just tools for God's amusement. To be tossed away if we don't function properly. Meanwhile your analogy misses the fact the he made the bloody phone and programmed the AI. But as it didn't work as he liked, he said 'off to the trash with you'. The AI is sentient btw and can feel pain but what does he care, a useless tool that I created must be punished.

I didn't say argument to convince atheist. Arguments fail because your arguments are always poor and flawed, filled with unverifiable claims with no attempt at providing evidence to back what you say. How can you possibly convince anyone with a poor argument. And its funny that you who bare the burden of proof is mentioning evidence.

I said the same thing that makes you believe. The 'God revealing himself to you' thing. Why doesn't God do that to others. If little nudges don't work then a bigger nudge. You so adamant with the idea that people can't change. So your solution is 'let them all go to hell'.

Draw near to my mind abi? And the mental image that I'll called God.

So our loving creator, after failing to drop any signs of his existence except for a bunch of poeple making poor, unconvincing arguments. Will just sit down and say 'naaa, ive tried, they won't listen, let them all suffer for eternity'

We are like flowers who can choose to be beautiful or not!

We were created not for ourselves but for Him and his enjoyment. In the same earth where you say God did not drop enough evidence, millions have found Him: so what further excuse do you have. In fact the spread varied so much that you have no excuse.

The poor, the rich, the learned, the unlearned, the stupid, the the wise, the educated, the illiterate etc found him. I hope your answer will still remain : Not enough Evidence!?

Dhumancanvas:
Speaking of which. Why do you believe in God? Why not Allah or Zues for that matter. Why not bhuddism or Hinduism. Even if its yaweh, why not Judaism. Why Christianity?
I'm hoping your answer is something more substantial than 'I was born into it'.

Have you ever thought about it? That maybe if you were born in india you would be hindu or china you would be bhuddist. And what happens to them? Your God will toss them in the trash too for being born into the wrong culture and adopting the prevailing religion of that culture?

I must confess it started with a bias: I was born in a Christian home and I believe in life after life

However, in my 200Ls I almost recited the shahada (became a Moslem). It was the Qur'an that led me back to Christ because of some inconsistencies I found.

Initially, my logics before I knew Christ was this:
Only three religions in the world were strictly monotheistic.
Two dealt with the issue of resurrection and reward for deeds on earth.
Judaism and Christianity shared the same God with Christianity.
Mohammed seemed to impose the nature of Jehovah on Allah.
The contradiction between the quran with respect to the Torah and New Testament was significant.
Allah could not be the same as Jehovah

Were these sufficient reasons?

Probably not. But it led me in the right direction.

I rededicated my life to Christ AND I began to grow in the spirit and in the knowledge of Him. I try to please God as my Father

BUT sometimes I fail miserably (I misbehave as a Christian). I stand up from my failure and move on knowing that He loves me in spite of my frailties.

I know Him. I only wish I can love Him more than this.

For those who never heard of Him, (eg Hindus), they will be judged according to their pure conscience. For those who reject Him, they've made their choice.

shadeyinka:
I must confess it started with a bias: I was born in a Christian home and I believe in life after life

However, in my 200Ls I almost recited the shahada (became a Moslem). It was the Qur'an that led me back to Christ because of some inconsistencies I found.

Initially, my logics before I knew Christ was this:
Only three religions in the world were strictly monotheistic.
Two dealt with the issue of resurrection and reward for deeds on earth.
Judaism and Christianity shared the same God with Christianity.
Mohammed seemed to impose the nature of Jehovah on Allah.
The contradiction between the quran with respect to the Torah and New Testament was significant.
Allah could not be the same as Jehovah

Were these sufficient reasons?

Probably not. But it led me in the right direction.

I rededicated my life to Christ AND I began to grow in the spirit and in the knowledge of Him. I try to please God as my Father

BUT sometimes I fail miserably (I misbehave as a Christian). I stand up from my failure and move on knowing that He loves me in spite of my frailties.

I know Him. I only wish I can love Him more than this.

For those who never heard of Him, (eg Hindus), they will be judged according to their pure conscience. For those who reject Him, they've made their choice.

What a candid, honest and truthful reply I couldn't help but not just liking the post. Well done, more grease to your elbow, with increasing power and grace of the Lord abound in you.

MuttleyLaff:
What a candid, honest and truthful reply I couldn't help but not just liking the post. Well done, more grease to your elbow, with increasing power and grace of the Lord abound in you.

Amen!
Thanks for the encouragement!

shadeyinka:
Amen!
Thanks for the encouragement!

Namaste!.
Its a validation that your head deh there but you could take it as encouragement if you want too as well, as you can see that I just couldnt hide it, that I "gbadun" that your reply comment and/or post to Dhumancanvas well well.

NNAMDIII:
is there God?

YES, THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD

shadeyinka:
We are like flowers who can choose to be beautiful or not!

We were created not for ourselves but for Him and his enjoyment. In the same earth where you say God did not drop enough evidence, millions have found Him: so what further excuse do you have. In fact the spread varied so much that you have no excuse.

The poor, the rich, the learned, the unlearned, the stupid, the the wise, the educated, the illiterate etc found him. I hope your answer will still remain : Not enough Evidence!?

Nope. My answer still remains. Why hasn't he touched others in the way he has touched these millions? Why not save everyone?

I should note that was born into christianity and used to believe. I stopped believing when i realised I didn't have any justifiable reason to believe and what I was engaging in was self deception. In similar fashion millions(im assuming) have converted away from belief. In the past all there was was religion, at a certain point in time(in europe at least) you would face persecution and possibly death if the church saw you as a threat. As the world became more enlightened and knowledgeable, especially after the world wars when people realised that God would not or could not do anything about the suffering going alot of people stop believing.

So if you ask me the trend is reversing. Its not that millions of people have found God. All they knew before was God and that still lingers today. It is that people are starting to see the BS laden in religious belief and people are opting out.

I had a conversation with this clever christian, usual argument in which neither party was swayed. A few months later she came out as atheist for similar I and many others have.

Speak to other atheist if you have the chance. Find out why they don't believe. You'll notice this too. I have no doubt that there are people 'finding God' but there are also quite a few realising that a belief in God is not justified and are opting out and those in the 2nd case are on the rise. The world is becoming more intelligent and critical. People are no longer buying into the whole religious thing. They are realising they don't need to turn to religion for wisdom, guidiance and morality.

You may not have realised it yet but religion is losing its hold on the minds of the masses.

shadeyinka:
I must confess it started with a bias: I was born in a Christian home and I believe in life after life

However, in my 200Ls I almost recited the shahada (became a Moslem). It was the Qur'an that led me back to Christ because of some inconsistencies I found.

Initially, my logics before I knew Christ was this:
Only three religions in the world were strictly monotheistic.
Two dealt with the issue of resurrection and reward for deeds on earth.
Judaism and Christianity shared the same God with Christianity.
Mohammed seemed to impose the nature of Jehovah on Allah.
The contradiction between the quran with respect to the Torah and New Testament was significant.
Allah could not be the same as Jehovah

Were these sufficient reasons?

Probably not. But it led me in the right direction.

I rededicated my life to Christ AND I began to grow in the spirit and in the knowledge of Him. I try to please God as my Father

BUT sometimes I fail miserably (I misbehave as a Christian). I stand up from my failure and move on knowing that He loves me in spite of my frailties.

I know Him. I only wish I can love Him more than this.

For those who never heard of Him, (eg Hindus), they will be judged according to their pure conscience. For those who reject Him, they've made their choice.

wow, God name be Glorified, am really Happy for you. thank you for this. God is your strength.

shadeyinka:
I must confess it started with a bias: I was born in a Christian home and I believe in life after life

However, in my 200Ls I almost recited the shahada (became a Moslem). It was the Qur'an that led me back to Christ because of some inconsistencies I found.

Initially, my logics before I knew Christ was this:
Only three religions in the world were strictly monotheistic.
Two dealt with the issue of resurrection and reward for deeds on earth.
Judaism and Christianity shared the same God with Christianity.
Mohammed seemed to impose the nature of Jehovah on Allah.
The contradiction between the quran with respect to the Torah and New Testament was significant.
Allah could not be the same as Jehovah

Were these sufficient reasons?

Probably not. But it led me in the right direction.

I rededicated my life to Christ AND I began to grow in the spirit and in the knowledge of Him. I try to please God as my Father

BUT sometimes I fail miserably (I misbehave as a Christian). I stand up from my failure and move on knowing that He loves me in spite of my frailties.

I know Him. I only wish I can love Him more than this.

For those who never heard of Him, (eg Hindus), they will be judged according to their pure conscience. For those who reject Him, they've made their choice.

Do you agree tho that if you were born in india you would not be christian. It wouldn't even occur to you to be Christian?

From your post what I can gather is that its not necessary to know God for salvation. Is that correct? If your conscience is good then you're good.

Thats messed up. The last part. So hearing about him is more or less a curse. If you tell me about him, rather unconvincingly(cuz it usually is) and I don't believe you cuz im a skeptical, critical thinker. You have pretty much doomed me. Cuz i would have been judged based on my conscience but now I'm gonna be judged cuz I didn't buy into your unconvicing tale. I think y'all evangelists should stop trying to convert people and dooming them to hell. You are doing them a mis-service.
Mind you. If I did belong to another religion and followed it fully. If you brought your christianity to me I am not likely to buy into it. Just like if I tried to convert you to bhuddism your faith and orientation/conditioning won't allow you to give bhuddism a chance.

Don't you think it's kinda funny. That our religious orientation and our salvation as a result is due largely to pure chance of being born into the right culture that would expose you to God in way that you would be accepting of it. In others words alot of people are doomed simply for being born which is no fault of theirs.

Dhumancanvas:
Do you agree tho that if you were born in india you would not be christian. It wouldn't even occur to you to be Christian?

I know of people born in India, who happen to be believers and/or christians though Dhumancanvas

Dhumancanvas:
From your post what I can gather is that its not necessary to know God for salvation. Is that correct? If your conscience is good then you're good.

Who put that conscience there in you, Dhumancanvas?
Depending Dhumancanvas, on whether you have a clear and good conscience, your salvation is guaranteed

Dhumancanvas:
Thats messed up. The last part. So hearing about him is more or less a curse. If you tell me about him, rather unconvincingly(cuz it usually is) and I don't believe you cuz im a skeptical, critical thinker. You have pretty much doomed me. Cuz i would have been judged based on my conscience but now I'm gonna be judged cuz I didn't buy into your unconvicing tale. I think y'all evangelists should stop trying to convert people and dooming them to hell. You are doing them a mis-service.

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God Dhumancanvas.

Dhumancanvas:
Mind you. If I did belong to another religion and followed it fully. If you brought your christianity to me I am not likely to buy into it. Just like if I tried to convert you to bhuddism your faith and orientation/conditioning won't allow you to give bhuddism a chance.

The only religion that is true, pure, one that God approves and finds no fault in it, that you follow fully is to show compassion and/or empathy

Religion takes different shapes and forms, has different passions, interest, rituals etcetera. Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, New Age, Scientology, Paganism, TAR, etcetera too are religions. Also for some, sports, like football or hockey is a religion. For others and/or some, fashion too is a religion and atheism too funnily enough, as well, is a religion however there is only one true and pure religion, that is faultless. So let's call a spade, a spade, as nobody, not even you Dhumancanvas, can find a fault in empathy and/or with compassion.

It is organised religion(s), like for example, Christianity, before you latch on to that that Karl Marx comment, that is called the opium of the people, and not empathy and/or compassion, that is pure, true and without faults Dhumancanvas

Dhumancanvas:
Don't you think it's kinda funny. That our religious orientation and our salvation as a result is due largely to pure chance of being born into the right culture that would expose you to God in way that you would be accepting of it. In others words alot of people are doomed simply for being born which is no fault of theirs.

Be rest assured that God is fair and just. Nobody gets going to where they dont deserve to be. Even your conscience will agree with whatever judgement is pronounced on you.

MuttleyLaff:
I know of people born in India, who happen to be believers and/or christians though Dhumancanvas

Who put that conscience there in you, Dhumancanvas?
Depending Dhumancanvas, on whether you have a clear and good conscience, your salvation is guaranteed

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God Dhumancanvas.

The only religion that is true, pure, one that God approves and finds no fault in it, that you follow fully is to show compassion and/or empathy

Religion takes different shapes and forms, has different passions, interest, rituals etcetera. Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, New Age, Scientology, Paganism, TAR, etcetera too are religions. Also for some, sports, like football or hockey is a religion. For others and/or some, fashion too is a religion and atheism too funnily enough, as well, is a religion however there is only one true and pure religion, that is faultless. So let's call a spade, a spade, as nobody, not even you Dhumancanvas, can find a fault in empathy and/or with compassion.

It is organised religion(s), like for example, Christianity, before you latch on to that that Karl Marx comment, that is called the opium of the people, and not empathy and/or compassion, that is pure, true and without faults Dhumancanvas

Be rest assured that God is fair and just. Nobody gets going to where they dont deserve to be. Even your conscience will agree with whatever judgement is pronounced on you.

Everyone one has a conscience, its preloaded in the human operating system. Except for psyhopaths which is a genetic defect.

Yes empathy and compassion are among the highest virtues but once again. We come preloaded with them. When you see someone have a bad fall and break a bone, your brain has these things called mirror neurons which replay what you've just seen in your head like its you it happened to causing you to cringe. You instantly feel bad for the person , thats empathy in action and it happens instinctively. Compassion for example is something like what a mother feels for her child.

Theses are things we have regardless of religious orientation, regardless of a believe in God.
So one does not require religion or belief to feel these.

Frankly if hearing the word and not accepting means doom then I don't think people should spread the word. Unless you are 100% sure your audience will accept it.

Dhumancanvas:
Everyone one has a conscience, its preloaded in the human operating system.

I am pleased you acknowlege this fact and truth.

Dhumancanvas:
Except for psyhopaths which is a genetic defect.

Not just and/or only psychopaths, but true still, because if the conscience is not clear and good, then it must have gone defective then

Dhumancanvas:
Yes empathy and compassion are among the highest virtues but once again. We come preloaded with them. When you see someone have a bad fall and break a bone, your brain has these things called mirror neurons which replay what you've just seen in your head like its you it happened to causing you to cringe. You instantly feel bad for the person , thats empathy in action and it happens instinctively. Compassion for example is something like what a mother feels for her child.

Love actually is the highest virtue, however the religion you are advised to follow is empathy and/or compassion. These are what you are advised to religiously be doing, as in having and/or showing compassion or empathy

Dhumancanvas:
Theses are things we have regardless of religious orientation, regardless of a believe in God.
So one does not require religion or belief to feel these.

They are the only true pure religion and that is approved of by God

Dhumancanvas:
Frankly if hearing the word and not accepting means doom then I don't think people should spread the word. Unless you are 100% sure your audience will accept it.

Obeying and/or doing the commands of Jesus will save Dhumancanvas

MuttleyLaff:
I am pleased you acknowlege this fact and truth.

Not just and/or only psychopaths, but true still, because if the conscience is not clear and good, then it must have gone defective then

Love actually is the highest virtue, however the religion you are advised to follow is empathy and/or compassion. These are what you are advised to religiously be doing, as in having and/or showing compassion or empathy

They are the only true pure religion and that is approved of by God

Obeying and/or doing the commands of Jesus will save Dhumancanvas

If I'm reading it right and you're saying religion as way of life not necessarily any specific organised religion and you're saying as a way of life one should live through Love, empathy and compassion among other virtues then I completely agree with you my friend

Dhumancanvas:
If I'm reading it right and you're saying religion as way of life not necessarily any specific organised religion and you're saying as a way of life one should live through love, empathy and compassion among other virtues then I completely agree with you my friend

Let those be your passions, interest, rituals you religiously thrive at and do. If you do those, you advertently or inadvertently, are obeying and/or doing the commands of Jesus, that will guarantee you a safe haven

MuttleyLaff:
Let those be your passions, interest, rituals you religiously thrive at and do. If you do those, you advertently or inadvertently, are obeying and/or doing the commands of Jesus, that will guarantee you a safe haven

If you wanna put it that way then fine. I can't argue with that. While I live my life compassionately I don't have it in mind that I'm doing for Jesus or anybody in particular tho