₦airaland Forum

kenomobola:
Question; who do you think collects money from these people to setup their shops and stalls at these points, why are these traders emboldened? Simple, the same government that prohibits people from selling there, turns around and collects money from these same people for using said illegal spaces. So, who is deceiving who here, it's either there is 100% compliance or none at all.
This hypocrisy is evident in all spheres of life over here. Collapsed buildings, who gave the approvals? Has any government official been prosecuted? No. I can go on and on, the list is endless. As I noted earlier, the day we start telling ourselves the naked, unadulterated truth, we will start progressing.

I seriously doubt that anyone does...
Otherwise, they would not run when KIA officials eventually get around to chasing them off.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I am NOT saying that the government is entirely powerless nor blameless (and frankly it is quite possible that these traders are taxed and tolled at the community and/or street level by local LCDA or LGA officials and/or "agents", but when people even physically attack building control agency officials when they attempt to seal up distressed buildings or buildings being developed without building and/or planning permits specifically MANDATED by extant law, when they build on land without CofO, when they even cannot observe basic rules and regulations (whether it is driving against traffic, or okada operating without helmets or in areas specifically prohibited by law, or simply ignoring trash bins and tossing garbage in open spaces, road medians, gutters/drains, canals, etc., then if we are going to " we start telling ourselves the naked, unadulterated truth" it must necessarily and invariably involve and include the utilization of a MIRROR!

9jaRealist:
I seriously doubt that anyone does...
Otherwise, they would not run when KIA officials eventually get around to chasing them off.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I am NOT saying that the government is entirely powerless nor blameless (and frankly it is quite possible that these traders are taxed and tolled at the community and/or street level by local LCDA or LGA officials and/or "agents", but when people even physically attack building control agency officials when they attempt to seal up distressed buildings or buildings being developed without building and/or planning permits specifically MANDATED by extant law, when they build on land without CofO, when they even cannot observe basic rules and regulations (whether it is driving against traffic, or okada operating without helmets or in areas specifically prohibited by law, or simply ignoring trash bins and tossing garbage in open spaces, road medians, gutters/drains, canals, etc., then if we are going to " we start telling ourselves the naked, unadulterated truth" it must necessarily and invariably involve and include the utilization of a MIRROR!

Let me also clarify my stance. The government (state, local government, and the federal government) are not always 100% liable, the citizenry also have some portion of the blame to share. What I will never agree to is a government coming out and pointing accusatory fingers, when they have not done their part.
Why do you think things are as messed up as they are? Active government connivance, that's what. When the citizens, and their governments stick to tenets and provisions of the law, without fear or favour, we will progress.

kenomobola:
Let me also clarify my stance. The government (state, local government, and the federal government) are not always 100% liable, the citizenry also have some portion of the blame to share. What I will never agree to is a government coming out and pointing accusatory fingers, when they have not done their part.
Why do you think things are as messed up as they are? Active government connivance, that's what. When the citizens, and their governments stick to tenets and provisions of the law, without fear or favour, we will progress.

Completely agree!

Rossikk:
Dude, there's no ''but'' but'' ''but'' in this......if traders block the sidewalks, it is the state govt's job to clear them away, or fine them.

It is no reason not to build covered drains and sidewalks.

Why are you people content to live like animals, giving all sorts of stupid excuses?

Those open drains, do you realise they are very dangerous to the health, apart from being eyesores?

I just don't get how you people reason.

What are you even saying? Severally when i,m in Lagos island ,the CBD officers chase these traders on the side walks away ,and once their truck is gone ,the traders and their market wares are back.You dont buy a car and drive it in a river instead of a tarred road ,do you? All i am saying is people in Lagos needs to see government properties as their personal property,and take good care of them.

9jaRealist:
Respectfully disagree...

There can be NO sustainable change without the citizenry taking ownership of same.

Meanwhile, you could hardly put up even a lamp post in New York without a local community hearing.

I already covered this issue by explaining that nations like China, Japan, UAE and Korea all developed when they weren’t democracies (in short ordinary folks had ZERO INPUT)...

I assure you the bad behaviour you somehow believe is endemic only to Nigeria, I have observed in Asia. Ask a Hong Kong native about mainland Chinese, their response would probably make you think they are racist were they not the same people.

Mainland Chinese have been caught on Camera (see youtube) urinating in the streets, barging in when queues and a whole host of other bad behaviours. Has that hindered their development? No because power over development rests in the hands of the Chinese government not its ordinary people.

9jaRealist:
Granted that Nigerian governments should be building better roads (and Lagos probably does the 'best' job of it)...
But I have personally been to several other African countries with open gutters/drains and sadly have NOT witnessed this level of filth!

Even in Kigali, which is probably the cleanest African city and among the cleanest capitals in the developing world, there are still several streets with open drains/gutters (albeit the government is doing a commendable job of aggressively upgrading road infrastructure including covered sidewalks), such as the streets and areas around Nyabugogo Marche Market, but you will NEVER EVER see them littering those drains as is seen in the unfortunate pictures here. So, yes, the CITIZENS have to take a certain amount of responsibility (and ownership) for this mess.

This comes down to education and responsibility for that lies with (drum roll) government.

Excluding some far sighted leaders in the past like the great Lateef Jakende who built a great number of primary schools. Education for the masses from 5-18 has been neglected by local state governments across the nation.

If we had a decent public education system, instilling civic values/duty like they do in Japan it would be easy. In Japan all school cleaning is carried out by the students to teach them the values of cleanliness, the children learn to enjoy it.

You cannot condemn a population for its behaviours if it has never been educated. Most of the folks arguing here have probably had a private education, that should be a rarity not the norm if the government did it’s job..

nograv:
The problem lies with Nigerians who foolishly accept the status quo. But ultimately government is to blame..

I have addressed this foolish viewpoint elsewhere, so I will just post what I have said previously

I agree that Nigerians are partly responsible for their choice of leaders.

I have studied the rise of other nations, particularly non white ones. A good proportion developed significantly without democracy Japan, Korea, China and UAE.

The people had no influence on their choice of leaders. Great men stepped up and pulled their populations forward.

In the case of Japan Meiji Emperor (period Meiji Restoration)

In the case of Korea Park Jung-Hee Military Dictator (Period Miracle on the Han)

In the case of China Deng Xiaopeng Dictator (Period Four Modernisations)

In the case of UAE Sheik Al Maktoum Monarch

You have other examples in the guise of Lee Kuan Yew who pretty much ruled Singapore from independence up to the present taking it from developing to developed in ONE GENERATION (hardly a great example of ever changing party based democracy)

In Nigeria's case since independence not one leader has proven capable of governing the nation and propelling it to first world status. As I have shown you, the will of the people is often IRRELEVANT. What matters is the competence of the leadership at a National Level. Nigeria's leadership has shown to have been lacking..

People do not make big decisions on things like power and water drainage, their leaders do. Nigerian leaders have been at fault everytime.

I respect your view point though I totally disagree with it.

Development lies with the people and the leadership benefits from the people. The leaders you mentioned in your write up succeeded because of one factor (the most critical factor), they have the support and commitment of the people. Not in Nigeria.
If you become the president of this country, your own people, associates and friends etc will ruin your good name for nothing.
All the money you allocate to contractors will be diverted and stolen yet the people of the country will come after you, just you.
Ask GEJ.

You allocation Billions to the hospitals, and yet most of the money will disappear. What about universities, the military, road and housing projects, MDAs. The problem is with the Nigerian people and their mindset.

AlhajaChinyere:
I respect your view point though I totally disagree with it.

Development lies with the people and the leadership benefits from the people. The leaders you mentioned in your write up succeeded because of one factor (the most critical factor), they have the support and commitment of the people. Not in Nigeria.
If you become the president of this country, your own people, associates and friends etc will ruin your good name for nothing.
All the money you allocate to contractors will be diverted and stolen yet the people of the country will come after you, just you.
Ask GEJ.

You allocation Billions to the hospitals, and yet most of the money will disappear. What about universities, the military, road and housing projects, MDAs. The problem is with the Nigerian people and their mindset.

What you have said is true, however, why do the same Nigerians ,travel out of the country and; stay in a queue, drive like sane people, obey laws? The answer? Laws and consequences. Even our so called smaller neighbors are more law abiding than we are.
Have you noticed that expatriates who come to Nigeria are not exempted from shameful behavior on our soil? When they get here, they are usually possessed by the spirit of lawlessness. Why? Because there are no consequences. Guess who is responsible for upholding the law? You know who. When law makers and enforcers become law breakers, what do you think will happen in such a society? Anarchy, chaos.

kenomobola:
What you have said is true, however, why do the same Nigerians ,travel out of the country and; stay in a queue, drive like sane people, obey laws? The answer? Laws and consequences. Even our so called smaller neighbors are more law abiding than we are.
Have you noticed that expatriates who come to Nigeria are not exempted from shameful behavior on our soil? When they get here, they are usually possessed by the spirit of lawlessness. Why? Because there are no consequences. Guess who is responsible for upholding the law? You know who. When law makers and enforcers become law breakers, what do you think will happen in such a society? Anarchy, chaos.

Bros couldnt have said it any better..

Further to that point a good leader would surround himself with good men so he can implement his vision for the country.

You think all Japanese agreed with Emperor Meiji's reforms? The Samurai in particular were very much against his plans which greatly diminished their status in Japan..(they were the highest military caste that dominated Edo Japan for 600 years).

Meiji bribed some of the Samurai with companies (which exist till today) and had to fight the rest who rebelled against him militarily. The film 'The Last Samurai' covers the rebellion of those samurai..

Finally on laws, if I was leader I could kill corruption dead by warning that if you misappropriate a certain amount (say over 50,000 USD) then instant Death Penalty. It would be extreme but it would work, especially if enforced.. If a few Babas lost their heads, people would soon respect the rule of law again..

In Dubai and Singapore penalties for crime are severe, those cities are relatively crime free. One of my friends rearing his children in Singapore lamented his children would be easy pickings outside in the real world as they have no appreciation of criminality!! Can you imagine!!!!

nograv:
Bros couldnt have said it any better..

Further to that point a good leader would surround himself with good men so he can implement his vision for the country.

You think all Japanese agreed with Emperor Meiji's reforms? The Samurai in particular were very much against his plans which greatly diminished their status in Japan..(they were the highest military caste that dominated Edo Japan for 600 years).

Meiji bribed some of the Samurai with companies (which exist till today) and had to fight the rest who rebelled against him militarily. The film 'The Last Samurai' covers the rebellion of those samurai..

Finally on laws, if I was leader I could kill corruption dead by warning that if you misappropriate a certain amount (say over 50,000 USD) then instant Death Penalty. It would be extreme but it would work, especially if enforced.. If a few Babas lost their heads, people would soon respect the rule of law again..

In Dubai and Singapore penalties for crime are severe, those cities are relatively crime free. One of my friends rearing his children in Singapore lamented his children would be easy pickings outside in the real world as they have no appreciation of criminality!! Can you imagine!!!!

I fully agree with you. How can you place a fox in charge of a hen house? I am tired of hearing of people stealing billions, how did they have access to such money? Through a deliberately compromised system. How about we make it nearly impossible to have access to such humongous amounts? How about we make it such that, if anyone scale all the hurdles and eventually steal from our Commonwealth, such a one will book a one way ticket to the afterlife.
People think what Lee Kwan Yew did in Singapore was child's play, I laugh. The west labeled him as a dictator, an authoritarian, and so many other demeaning names. Is Singapore not better off now? Do people think he just came, and people fell in line? No, it took decades.
Is every Rwandan happy with Paul Kagame in Rwanda? No. In Paul Kagame's vision, Rwanda is more important than any single Rwandan. When Rwanda was engulfed in a genocide, nobody cared, they were left to kill themselves. Rwanda has learnt its lessons, have we?

kenomobola:
What you have said is true, however, why do the same Nigerians ,travel out of the country and; stay in a queue, drive like sane people, obey laws? The answer? Laws and consequences. Even our so called smaller neighbors are more law abiding than we are.
Have you noticed that expatriates who come to Nigeria are not exempted from shameful behavior on our soil? When they get here, they are usually possessed by the spirit of lawlessness. Why? Because there are no consequences. Guess who is responsible for upholding the law? You know who. When law makers and enforcers become law breakers, what do you think will happen in such a society? Anarchy, chaos.

Please please please, don't tell me the president is responsible for upholding the law! Abeg don't go there otherwise I will see you are thoroughly ignorant.

The common man, the citizens and the people (in the police and in the judicial system) are responsible for upholding the law!

nograv:
Bros couldnt have said it any better..

Further to that point a good leader would surround himself with good men so he can implement his vision for the country.

You think all Japanese agreed with Emperor Meiji's reforms? The Samurai in particular were very much against his plans which greatly diminished their status in Japan..(they were the highest military caste that dominated Edo Japan for 600 years).

Meiji bribed some of the Samurai with companies (which exist till today) and had to fight the rest who rebelled against him militarily. The film 'The Last Samurai' covers the rebellion of those samurai..

Finally on laws, if I was leader I could kill corruption dead by warning that if you misappropriate a certain amount (say over 50,000 USD) then instant Death Penalty. It would be extreme but it would work, especially if enforced.. If a few Babas lost their heads, people would soon respect the rule of law again..

In Dubai and Singapore penalties for crime are severe, those cities are relatively crime free. One of my friends rearing his children in Singapore lamented his children would be easy pickings outside in the real world as they have no appreciation of criminality!! Can you imagine!!!!

Okay, who should do the above in Nigeria?

kenomobola:
I fully agree with you. How can you place a fox in charge of a hen house? I am tired of hearing of people stealing billions, how did they have access to such money? Through a deliberately compromised system. How about we make it nearly impossible to have access to such humongous amounts? How about we make it such that, if anyone scale all the hurdles and eventually steal from our Commonwealth, such a one will book a one way ticket to the afterlife.
People think what Lee Kwan Yew did in Singapore was child's play, I laugh. The west labeled him as a dictator, an authoritarian, and so many other demeaning names. Is Singapore not better off now? Do people think he just came, and people fell in line? No, it took decades.
Is every Rwandan happy with Paul Kagame in Rwanda? No. In Paul Kagame's vision, Rwanda is more important than any single Rwandan. When Rwanda was engulfed in a genocide, nobody cared, they were left to kill themselves. Rwanda has learnt its lessons, have we?

We, we , we .......who are the WE?

kenomobola:
I fully agree with you. How can you place a fox in charge of a hen house? I am tired of hearing of people stealing billions, how did they have access to such money? Through a deliberately compromised system. How about we make it nearly impossible to have access to such humongous amounts? How about we make it such that, if anyone scale all the hurdles and eventually steal from our Commonwealth, such a one will book a one way ticket to the afterlife.
People think what Lee Kwan Yew did in Singapore was child's play, I laugh. The west labeled him as a dictator, an authoritarian, and so many other demeaning names. Is Singapore not better off now? Do people think he just came, and people fell in line? No, it took decades.
Is every Rwandan happy with Paul Kagame in Rwanda? No. In Paul Kagame's vision, Rwanda is more important than any single Rwandan. When Rwanda was engulfed in a genocide, nobody cared, they were left to kill themselves. Rwanda has learnt its lessons, have we?

Ahh my brother tell am...