Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] - Christianity Etc - Nairaland
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| Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Georgetlm2(op): 1:28pm On Jul 10, 2019 |
ONE SAVED IS FOREVER SAVED A statement of this kind, normally splits the Church into two parts: one part believes it's blasphemous to say ‘one saved is forever saved’: to them, you have to be doing something to keep servicing your salvation otherwise you will loose it. While the other group believes that the gospel teaches ‘one saved is forever saved’. In other words, all you need to do is to accept Jesus as your saviour and your salvation is consummated and settled. You may be waiting to know which group I belong to but the fact is that I am not trying to take side but to teach what the bible has already taught. The Apostles have extensively dealt with this issue but I will try to elaborate on it a bit. Romans 8:29-31 [29]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. [31]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Obviously, Apostle Paul is saying that those who are born again were actually foreknown and predestined by God the Father to enjoy salvation before they were created and born into this world. In essence, salvation is totally free without human contribution at all; all that is needed is to receive it and keep it by accepting Jesus as your saviour and remain in him as your saviour. What happens when I do what people call ‘sin', will that not nullify my salvation? That is actually the problem and the reason I am writing this. The truth is that sin does not nullify salvation(I am not asking you to ‘sin'; after all, if you are a Christian you can't ‘sin', KJV 1 John 3:9 [9]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.) There are reasons why you shouldn't do what people call sin--it is just for conscience sake, not so that God wouldn't be mad at you. You see, God can't be mad at you for anything because of your salvation in Christ Jesus. If you could ‘sin', according to the gospel, you would only sin when you are trying to do good in order to have right standing with God. For by doing so, you are exempting yourself from the salvation which is freely gotten in the grace that is in Christ Jesus through faith. Romans 9:30-32 [30]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. [31]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. [32]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Romans 10:1-4 [1]Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [2]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [3]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Galatians 2:19-21 [19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [20]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Notwithstanding, if you are born again and yet trying to gain righteousness through work, you still not forfeited your salvation. It's just that God would be seeing you as a father would see his biological son or daughter trying to do something good to became a son or daughter of his already biological father, which is the very peak of ignorance. In other words, many Christians are trying to become what they are already; because of the ignorance of who they are hence their unbearable experience in life. This write-up is actually to help them know that whatever they are trying to get or achieve in God are already rightly theirs in Christ Jesus but they can only enjoy it not by hard work but by the gospel, absolute knowledge of the gospel. John 8:30-32 [30]As he spake these words, many believed on him. [31]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [32]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Ephesians 3:4-6 [4]Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) [5]Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; [6]That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Permanent salvation is real, and you don't have to do anything to have it but to trust Jesus just as you would trust your rich Dad if he promises to travel with you in his car. I believe you wouldn't be worried about money to buy sufficient fuel if your father loves you and rich enough to fuel the car. In the same way, we should trust Jesus for our salvation knowing that he loves us and has what it takes to see us through. John 10:25-30 [25]Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. [26]But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. [27]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. [30]I and my Father are one. Jesus in the above scripture, is telling us that ‘one saved is forever saved’; nothing can pluck the saved from his hands(one of the places Jesus boasted of his sufficient power to keep us saved no matter what). That is exactly what Paul, the Apostle, preached that made him a terror to the kingdom of darkness. Read this from him: Hebrews 7:25 [25]Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. To the ‘uttermost’ he says. To Paul, all you need is to believe that Jesus is your saviour and other things would be handled by Jesus himself. Even common sense tells us that if Jesus would be qualified to be our saviour, he should be able to save us; other wise, if he wants us to help him save us, then I doubt he is the saviour he claims to be. But the good news is that Jesus by the Holy Spirit through Apostle Paul, has vehemently declared his ability to save us even to the uttermost. The question is how, how could God overlook my sins and save me? That is a good question; and I have a good answer from God for you. Romans 3:23-28 [23]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [26]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Verses 25-26 makes it clear that God set forth Jesus as a propitiation for our sins forever, ones committed and ones to be committed. Hebrews 10:14 [14]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Why did God do that? He could have waved his hand and say, no sin, I am God, I account to nobody. But that is not how it works, there are laws and principles even God himself cannot override anyhow if he has to remain the righteous God. Therefore, he has to set his beloved son as the atonement for our sins that he might be just and the justifier of those who believe in Jesus. In other words, God gave himself a title(JUSTIFIER OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS). Brethren, when you are trying to achieve your salvation through work/action, you are actually denying God this title(JUSTIFIER OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS). It is actually dangerous to do that, don't do it. Were Jesus and Paul only people that touched this aspect of the gospel? No, all the Apostles lived and taught it; but I will only take one more glance on the writings of Peter, the Apostle. 1 Peter 1:1-5 [1]Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, [2]Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. [3]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [4]To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, [5]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In verse one, Peter calls the saints strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, because the kingdom Jesus prayed for has come and the saints have been initiated into it hence strangers. Matthew 6:10 [10]Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. In verses two, Peter calls them elect, not elected. Contextually, is there any different between elect and elected apart from the tenses? Yes, there is a wide difference apart from the tenses: if Peter had said elected, it would mean that they did something to merit their election; but by using the word elect( people may think of present tense of elected but that is not what he is trying to say or saying) he is saying that they did not work for it neither acquired it, they were born into it or created them elect. Another illustration could be seen in a different between a born Prince when he becomes a king and the one that campaigned to win kingship(one could loose the kingship, for he was not born king; but the other wouldn't imaging loosing, because it is his birthright). You can also checkout this vivid example in the Bible: Acts 22:24-28 [24]The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging; that he might know wherefore they cried so against him. [25]And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned? [26]When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman. [27]Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea. [28]And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And Paul said, But I was free born. The chief captain came, and said unto Paul, Tell me, are you a Roman? He said, Yes. And the chief captain answered, With a great sum I obtained this freedom. But Paul said, But I was born free. Paul didn't know how much it costs to acquire Roman freedom and don't care to know, though he was enjoying the same freedom. The question is, why? Because he was born with or in freedom, he didn't need to do anything to acquire freedom hence he didn't care about the cost. To understand the Holy Ghost through Peter, he wrote: verses 2, ‘elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...’. Through the above statements we can clearly understand the illustrations I gave. The saints according to Peter were chosen through the foreknowledge of God, before they were born. As matter of fact, they were created for that purpose, but they must have to hear the gospel and respond to it and when that happens there is no going back to the world(they don't have to do something to maintain it). What Apostle Peter is saying is that every believer was elected before birth and saved through the acceptance of the gospel(that Jesus is Lord) Romans 10:9-10 [9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Let's hear from God himself: Acts 18:9-10 [9]Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace: [10]For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city. God declares that he has much people in that city; therefore Paul should not be afraid but hold not his peace and speak for the salvation of the elect(chosen before birth). The people God says he has were not save at the time Paul was speaking because they hadn’t at that time received the gospel even though they were people of God through his foreknowledge. What is the foreknowledge of God? When we speak of the foreknowledge of God, we speak of the God’s ability to know the future of everyone( to be precise, ability to know who will eventually respond to the call of God to salvation through the gospel of Jesus Christ, even before the individual was conceived in his mother’s womb). Those whom God thus foreknow he also calls his elects, his people. Foreknowledge of God does not imply that God ordained some to be saved and some to be damned(to teach that would mean that God is unjust and would not have the moral right to condemn those who do not believe in the gospel, for it was God himself who denied them salvation). Romans 9:11-24 [11](For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth  [12]It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. [13]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. The above Scripture does not in anyway imply that God created Esau to hate him and created Jacob to love him; rather through the foreknowledge of God, he new what Esau and Jacob would do and thus his choice of Isaac. That foreknowledge latter unfolded in the life of those two bothers confirming what God has already seen through his foreknowledge. Those who were foreknown by God, their names were already written in the book of the elect and cannot be cancelled after they had been saved. Therefore, the saved names were already written in the book of the elect through the foreknowledge of God before they were saved. Such people cannot loose their salvation(when they eventually accepts Jesus) which has already been recorded in the book of life. Luke 10:20 [20]Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Could the elect die without being saved? To say no would mean that the foreknowledge of God does not matter; if they were truly elect, then God would have considered every conditions before electing them. To say no would also mean that we are rejecting the foreknowledge of God. The fact is that the elects have to be saved, but through the gospel of grace in Christ Jesus. What if they hear the gospel and do not believe it. If they were the elect, they have to believe the gospel; if they don’t, then they are not the elect—the elect must hear and believe the gospel, it may not happen the first time they heard the gospel but eventually they will believe and be saved. TO BE CONTINUED... WATCH OUT FOR THE NEXT PART |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by ichuka(m): 9:25pm On Jul 10, 2019 |
Georgetlm2:Nice one OP |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Georgetlm2(op): 10:22pm On Jul 10, 2019 |
ichuka:thanks |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Janosky: 1:26am On Jul 11, 2019 |
Georgetlm2:The OP is lying us that Judas Iscariot is saved ! Even Ananias and Saphirah are saved. Satanic junk indeed ! |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Georgetlm2(op): 2:03pm On Jul 11, 2019 |
Janosky:Take it easy my dear; this is all about sharing knowledge and insight in the knowledge of the mind of God. God wants us to know this things for our own good. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 [3]For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; [4]Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. TO ADDRESS YOUR POINTS: JUDAS I don't know your understanding of Judas and his salvation but one thing is certain: we should substantiate our points with the scriptures. Judas was not saved and couldn't have been saved at his time. According to the scriptures, not only him but also every other person did not have what it takes to be saved. For any body to be saved Jesus has to die and resurrect from the dead. Hebrews 9:16-17 [16]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [17]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. In other words, Jesus didn't save anybody when he walked on the face of the earth as the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Jesus had no everlasting life to give anybody hence he could not save anybody. John 4:13-14 [13]Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14]But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. "springing up into everlasting life.", he says. Jesus didn't say, the water I shall give you is the everlasting life. No. He said it will "spring up into everlasting life.". To wit, what Jesus gave to those he ministered to was a special grace that they might accept the full gospel which he himself could not even preach, because of the legalities surrounding his ministry. At one time he was asked what shall we do to inherit eternal life?: Mark 10:17-19 [17]And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? He answered: Mark 10:18-19 [18]And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. [19]Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. But don't forget, he demanded something more than the law if the young man wanted to be perfect, meaning the law does not make anyone perfect hence follow me--he said. Mark 10:20-21 [20]And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. [21]Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. Jesus does not make us better, good or very good as God made Adam. We are made greater than Adam because we cannot sin but Adam could sin. Genesis 1:27-31 [27]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [28]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [29]And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. [30]And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. [31]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. He makes us perfect, meaning we cannot seen if we remain in him. Colossians 1:21-23 [21]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [22]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [23]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; At the other time he was asked the same question: John 6:28-29 [28]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? He answered: John 6:29 [29]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. WHY? LEGALITIES! PRINCIPLES! IT IS CALLED THE DISPENSATION OF THE FULLNESS OF TIME! Ephesians 1:10 [10]That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Colossians 1:25 [25]Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Base on these, Judas was not saved and could not have been saved. John 13:10-11 [10]Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. [11]For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. If you speed read this scripture, you would say: then the other apostles, except Judas, were saved at the time of Jesus but that is not true. Here Jesus is addressing many issues at the same time. He is not saying that one, Judas, the betrayer, is not saved and others are. No. That would defeat the purpose of his death. If he could save anybody while alive, what is the need of his death and resurrection. He said they were washed but, the one,the betrayer, was not washed. That does not imply that the ones washed was saved because christians are not only washed, we have a better and great experience with Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 [11]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Romans 4:25 [25]Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Hebrews 10:14 [14]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. All this happened through his death and resurrection not by his, Jesus’ preaching, he had to die before these could happen. He was saying that the special grace(grace to accept the good news when it eventually comes)was already working in some(the elects) but not in one(Judas, the betrayer--am repeating myself because of you). What is that grace? It is the washing of water by the word; to be more specific, it is the word in them. Acts 20:32 [32]And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. John 15:3 [3]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Ephesians 5:25-26 [25]Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; [26]That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, John 4:13-14 [13]Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14]But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Obviously, Jesus was not carrying any water, he was carrying the word of God. Therefore, nobody was saved until the resurrection, on the day of Pentecost. John 7:37-39 [37]In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. [38]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. [39](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) Romans 8:9 [9]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Luke 24:48-49 [48]And ye are witnesses of these things. [49]And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 1 John 5:10-13 [10]He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. [11]And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12]He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. [13]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. ANANIAS AND SAPHIRAH In Christianity, I don't no how to say it so that people will get it, basics are very important. The problem is that everybody thinks he knows too much because he is following many preachrers on the internet. But you see, those things they hear them say, they don't know why those statement are made. We all need the basics because we cannot get to perfection without getting to understand the basics. Today the opposite is the case. Hebrews 6:1-3 [1]Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [2]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3]And this will we do, if God permit. There is such a thing as basics; if you don't know them you are going up to come down; but if you do know them, it does not matter how long it takes you you will surely over take those who took off without it. In Christianity, we don't do anything to keep or sevice our salvation. We are not suppose to help Jesus to save us if he is the saviour indeed. I wouldn't be written must, I have already did. I will be given one or two scriptures in addition to the ones you have read already and am done. Galatians 2:19-21 [19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [20]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. The problem is that their are many contradictions in the church(am not talking about one church contradicting the other; am talk about a pastor contradicting himself). Look at the teaching of grace, for instance: The general explanation or defination of grace is unmerited favour. The question now is if grace is unmerited favour, doesn't that suggest that we don't do anything to keep our salvation if it is given to us by grace. Watch this too: They say God loves believers unconditionally (“agape” love). The same people are telling us that if you do this or that you are doomed. If it is unconstitutional why are conditions attached to it? You can ask them yourself. Bunch of contradiction. The ‘craftness’ of it is that it looks right on the surface. How do we know the truth? We should read our Bible. The bible says that the only way one can go to hell is when he disbelieves in Jesus as the son of God, lord and saviour. If this is settled, dealt with, other things will be taken care of by the one we believe in(that is why he is the saviour, for crying out loud). This is what the Bible says: John 3:18,36 [18]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [36]He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 5:24 [24]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Base on these, the words of the master himself, if Ananias and Sapphirah truly believed in the lordship of Jesus then the truth is that they are saved. The lying out fear of the provision or Confort of the future because of their little knowledge of the abilities of God can not deny them heaven. Some people did more than that and they were assured of heaven on the of the lord, only that they may have some problems on their flesh because of their inability to live according to their nature not because God will punish them. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 [1]It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [2]And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [3]For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Paul was not talking about his repentance here he only demanded that he should be disassociated with the church to avoid contamination. 1 Corinthians 5:6 [6]Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Then he assured them, those who committed de fornication, the salvationof their spirit/soul in the day of the lord Jesus Christ. [5]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Remember, I am not asking people to do what people call sin. No. I am only trying to help them out of it by letting them know that a Christian is already holy, and to get it into their mind. Proverbs 23:7 [7]For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:... Proverbs 4:23 [23]Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Wizy123: 4:24pm On Jul 27, 2019 |
Georgetlm2:Bros with the bolded, are you saying that even if the elected finally receives Christ and later rejects Christ that they will still make heaven  |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Georgetlm2(op): 1:26pm On Jul 28, 2019 |
Wizy123:Thanks for reading, but you should have read the part two for comprehensive understanding. All the same, to answer your question: PLEASE, TAKE NOTE OF THE BOLDED: If they can reject Jesus, then, they were never the elects: the reason they are the elects is simply because through the foreknowledge of God he new that thy can't but believe and continue to believe, nothing can make them to give up on Christ according to the word of the master himself: John 10:25-30 [25]Jesus replied: I have told you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name are my witness; [26]but you do not believe, because you are no sheep of mine. [27]The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me. [28]I give them eternal life; they will never be lost and no one will ever steal them from my hand. [29]The Father, for what he has given me, is greater than anyone, and no one can steal anything from the Father's hand. [30]The Father and I are one. John 6:60-71 [60]After hearing it, many of his followers said, 'This is intolerable language. How could anyone accept it?' [61]Jesus was aware that his followers were complaining about it and said, 'Does this disturb you? [62]What if you should see the Son of man ascend to where he was before? [63]'It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh has nothing to offer. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. [64]'But there are some of you who do not believe.' For Jesus knew from the outset who did not believe and who was to betray him. [65]He went on, 'This is why I told you that no one could come to me except by the gift of the Father.' [66]After this, many of his disciples went away and accompanied him no more. [67]Then Jesus said to the Twelve, 'What about you, do you want to go away too?' [68]Simon Peter answered, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the message of eternal life, [69]and we believe; we have come to know that you are the Holy One of God.' [70]Jesus replied to them, 'Did I not choose the Twelve of you? Yet one of you is a devil.' [71]He meant Judas son of Simon Iscariot, since this was the man, one of the Twelve, who was to betray him. Then you may ask me, what about Judas? Even though the above scripture answers the question, you can also read this scriptures: John 17:12 [12]While I was with them[b], I kept those you had given me true to your name. I have watched over them and not one is lost except one who was destined to be lost, and this was to fulfil the scriptures.[/b] Therefore the elects cannot miss heaven that is why there is no judgement for them for judgement is not necessary, since they are already saved. Judgement is not needed to determine their salvation hence no judgement: John 3:18 [18]No one who believes in him will be judged; but whoever does not believe is judged already, because that person does not believe in the Name of God's only Son. John 5:24 [24]In all truth I tell you, whoever listens to my words, and believes in the one who sent me, has eternal life; without being brought to judgement such a person has passed from death to life. |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Wizy123: 9:01am On Jul 29, 2019 |
Georgetlm2:What I want to know is what happens to the elect if after accepting Christ and he or she continuous living in Sin? |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Georgetlm2(op): 11:44am On Jul 29, 2019 |
Wizy123:Your questions tell me you haven't read the messages; read them and you will understand. Don't be some people who say, "Nobody can convince me". Of cause, nobody can convince them if they do not want to accept the obvious. Even in the law court, no one is asked to convince anybody; the court only requires that one should prove his case beyond any reasonable doubt--because there will always be some unreasonable doubters, and no one dares to change them. Don't be one of them[b]. I know you are not. [/b]The gospel is all about increase in knowledge, instead of arguments. For one to increase in knowledge his mind must be receptive. The Master never asked us to make sure we get everyone convinced; no. He only asked us to preach the gospel to all nations with two conditions: one to preachers and one to hearers. TO PREACHERS, HE SAYS: 2 Timothy 2:14-15 [14]Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. [15]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. TO HEARERS, HE SAY: James 1:21 [21]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. It is true we should be careful about what we hear and accept, but we should do it Bible way, not our own way. The Bible say prove all things and hold fast that which is good; not reject all things. 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21 [19]Quench not the Spirit. [20]Despise not prophesyings. [21]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. I encourage you to prove me by comparing my writings with the scriptures, the gospel: that's the reason I quote scriptures to establish whatever I say. Don't prove my writings with what you know or what your pastors tell you. No. The highest authority is the WORD, THE BIBLE. Read them with open mindedness and you will see I have rightly divided the word of truth. Thanks my Dear |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Wizy123: 12:03pm On Jul 29, 2019 |
Georgetlm2:Please all the things you wrote up there didn't answer my simple question |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Georgetlm2(op): 11:11am On Aug 02, 2019*. Modified: 11:35am On Aug 06, 2019 |
Wizy123:I am honestly surprised you are still not getting your question answered after reading those right--ups. Well I will not presume that everyone can understand everything at the same time, there are actually differences in understanding or comprehension. YOUR QUESTION WAS: "What I want to know is what happens to the elect if after accepting Christ and he or she continuous living in Sin?" First, I want you to know that a Christian is not a child of God, born of God, because he is faultless but because he is begotten of His seed, His Word, by accepting Jesus in his life, and can only maintain it by consistently remaining in his profession. Hebrews 4:14 [14]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. All we need is to hold fast our profession, that is, maintain your faith, heart and mouth, declaration that Jesus is your Lord and saviour. Now to your question: A Christian is not expected to manufacture good Character in order to be holy but to produce a fruit of righteous, the righteousness which he got from Jesus Christ by professing him as lord and saviour. Remember, the good deeds you are expecting is the fruit, the outward disposition of the inward personality which was made possible by new birth; that outward disposition or fruit is not what makes or keeps us a Christian, but it is what we produce because of who we already are. Galatians 5:22-23 [22]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. This scripture tells us that the fruit, the good characters are the aura of the everlasting life in us already. *What if a Christian does not have this aura?* Well, the fact is that every Christian has it but in different degrees based on individual maturity. Just as Jesus teaches: Matthew 13:8-9 [8]But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. [9]Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Jesus here is teaching that every seed, word of life, that falls on a good ground, on the hearts of the elect, will surely produce though in different capacity as a result of the manure, the teachings, received into the soil, the heart of elect. My dear, no Christian is a sinner and cannot lose out from their salvation because of some ugly character. That ugly character is not a sign of damnation rather a sign of immaturity which could only be dealt with through the proper teaching of the righteousness of Christ already in them. We, the elect, can not be seen by God as sinner no matter what; because our righteousness is not ours but Christ's--God sees the righteousness of Christ in us not our own righteousness. Galatians 3:27 [27]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Colossians 1:27 [27]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: We have put on Christ, Christ in you and Christ on you where will the sin be? Hence: Galatians 3:27 [27]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Colossians 1:27 [27]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: We have put on Christ, Christ in you and Christ on you where will the sin be? Hence: Colossians 1:21-22 [21]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [22]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: The preaching of the gospel an outstretching to get people believe and accept this unmerited gift of God; that is why it's a good news other than that, it's a bad new. Romans 5:17 17]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) The above scripture says, "]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;" : which means that the evil in the world emanates by the act of one man, Adam. In other word, you don't have to do evil to experience evil, there is evil already with you by the deed of the man, Adam. Then the Holy Spirit concluded that verse by saying, "much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)". Thus, per what Jesus has done, every believer--they which have received, not worked for, abundant of grace and of gift, not acquired or achieved but received the gift, of righteousness shall reign in life by one Jesus. The problem is that many believe that they were born a sinner without committing any sin in their mother's womb, and they also believe that having been born a sinner, because of what Adam did when they were not even created, what Adam did affected them and could not come out of it, no matter how much good work they did or do. But the same people cannot believe that what Jesus has done has affected them, having been born again in Christ. They believe their good deeds could not or can not brought them out from where Adam's kept them. but the same people believe that their actions can destroy what Jesus has done for them and brought them out from the righteousness Jesus has given to them. In essence, what they are saying is that what Adam did is more potent than what Jesus has done. IT IS QUITE PATHETIC! MY DEAR, RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RECEIVED; IT'S NOT WORKED FOR. JUST RECEIVE IT TODAY AND CONTINUE TO ENJOY. I would also recomend that you read this my post, it is more detailed: https://www.nairaland.com/5308210/pastor-george-oyoke-true-explanation#80387448 |
| Re: Pastor George Oyoke: One Save Is Forever Saved[part 1] by Wizy123: 10:24am On Aug 23, 2019 |
Georgetlm2:Bros just go and read Matthew 21:28-32 you will understand that one can be saved in the beginning and can still lose it at the end. So what this means is that if God predestined you for heaven, even if you are a sinner now, some how some how you will eventually turn back to God because it was preditamined but if you were predestined for hell fire, if you like accept Christ today, one way or the other you will reject that Christ that you believed before and go back to the devil (Hebrew 6:4-6) because that was what was predetermined for your life. You can use the two sons in the passage of the scripture I asked you to read for understanding. The parable of the great feast is also a good example to show you that one can lose his or her salvation Matthew 22:1-14 where you will see a quote like many are called few are chosen. This statement many are called means even the ones that are not destined for heaven can answer the call, which is accepting Christ but because they were not "Chosen" (destined) for heaven atleast they won't be in the number because they were not chosen despite being called (receiving Christ). That is to say even though at one point or the other in their life they received Christ but because they were not predestined for heaven, they will one way or the other lose it eventually before the end of their life. I pray God gives you more understanding as you study this scriptures amen |
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