₦airaland Forum

Nowenuse:
I agree that I am very much guilty of the last paragraph. We learn every day actually. Funny enough, I am not even from a large ethnic group My ethnic groups is found only in 1 LGA in Nigeria and we even share the LGA with other tribes. So, you see, I thought I knew all it took to be a small minority tribe.

Believe me, in Plateau state as well as other middlebelt/ northern states where you have dozens of tribes in one state, it is very common to see very small tribes. In Bassa LGA of Plateau state for instance, there are about 10 different ethnic groups. However, the smallest of smallest ethnic group must still posses several settlements, like at least 5 different communities. A single settlement ethnic group is truly strange.

However from what I'm seeing here, it looks like Akoko edo is a melting pot (intersection) of different tribes. Like you said, Ikpesi is an Etsako speaking town, Igarra is an Ebira (Oshuku ) speaking town. Maybe another town can be linked to Owan or Ogori-magongo or Yoruba or something else. Then the rest may probably be ancient tribes that predate the arrival of present ones and managed to preserve their ancient identities and have evolved for so long to be very different from each other even though they have been living side by side for centuries, but probably never related due to the terrain.

All I have to do here is to remind you that Igarra is a dialect of Oshuku language. I know it is difficult for people to unlearn an agelong falsehood all of a sudden.
None of the 48 towns in Akoko-Edo shares any ancestral links with Ogori or Magongo. The coinage of the compound word Ogori-Magongo was for administrative convenience and the need for a sense of political belonging by the two during the military era when the two settlement LGA and the smallest in Nigeria was created. Otherwise these two are separate autonomous settlements from time immemorial.

Nowenuse:
Cc Deadlytruth

The guy you quoted is himself unaware of the genuine facts which he is yet to come across. If he were sincere with himself why didn't he include the Oshuku speaking people indegeous to Cross River State? I am sure he doesn't even yet know of their existence. So you see the point I am making that the attempt to supplant the Oshuku generic name with Ebira is usually either due to Ignorance or political mischief.

In addition to the fact that the other dynamic and liberal Ebira moniker had indicated readiness for further education by releasing his WhatsApp line, I will oblige you more with the fact that the maiden Oshuku Descendants meeting was recently held....in 2010 or so.... and it was correctly titled as an Oshuku gathering without 'Ebira' featuring in the titling. Moreover, at that gathering it was unanimously agreed that an Etuno man be made their first president in recognition of their primogeniture status conferred on them by the fact that the eldest of all the Oshuku brothers who arrived at the originally intended destination was the Etuno people leader in the journey. Ask any Ebira man you know to tell you the name of the first Oshuku Descendants Union president.

Facts are stubborn.

Nowenuse:
Well, I'm sorry if my approach appeared condescending. I understand where you are coming from, however, I must let you know that you are fighting a lost battle. There is no way a tribe as large as the Ebiras already known, recognized and documented officially for decades can just change their name to something else.

I am not even fighting any battle let alone it being a lost one. How many Ebiras have you seen countering me here? They are reading and they know I am speaking the truth. Of course Ebiras are known and documented as the section of Oshuku's who occupy Kogi State, and no one has any problem about that. So what is your point?

Nowenuse:
For instance, the Ebiras of Nasarawa state do not call themselves Ebira, but rather Egbura. However you can still see it is still something close.

Why do you think they don't call themselves Ebira? That tells you there is something different somewhere regardless of the relationship.

Nowenuse:
I have never heard the word 'Oshuku' before. I cannot just choose to be deliberately mischievous. I was and still am a leader of various middlebelt regional fora.

But now you are hearing it, not so?
Of course it is one day people begin to hear of what they never heard of initially. You also never initially heard of the fact that single settlement tribes exist despite you knowing a little about the very Akoko-Edo where they abound and even growing up in Edo State and having Akoko-Edo friends in UNIBEN. But now you know. So you can see that your belonging to different Middle Belt fora in even leadership capacity doesn't automatically make you omniscient about issues within that jurisdiction. Despite being Nigeria's president, what Buhari knows about the ethnic composition of the country is definitely insignificant compared with his ignorance about same.

Nowenuse:
I had Igarra friends while in Uniben and once followed up their cultural day and none of them ever called themselves Oshuku or anything of sort. They usually identified themselves as ETUNO (besides Igarra).

And did any one of them ever tell you he is Ebira? Did they ever title their cultural day as 'Ebira Day'? Never! No Etuno person does that. Moreover, Etuno culture is poles apart from that of Ebira. They celebrate things like Aba Festival which marks graduation from one age group to another once in seven years, Grandparenthood attainment festival, Ubete festival by which no one goes to farm throughout that day, Ututanebe festival, Ochichakavi festival by which an exceptional achiever is given posthumous honours, Ochonine Festival by which sudden and youthful deaths are believed to be averted, etc. Ebiras don't do any of these. Their value systems differ as well. In fact an Ebira person visiting Igarra for the first time usually experiences culture shock and vice versa.

Nowenuse:
Just for the records. Your analogy between your Etuno people and Ebiras with mine and Hausas is very very dumb. Why? Cos my native language is not Hausa or in any way related to Hausa. Most languages from my part of the middlebelt are even more similar to Calabar dialects and perhaps Chinese than they are closer to Hausa. Hausa is just a 2nd/secondary language to us. In the rural areas, many elderly people do not even speak Hausa well or none at all.

Your refusal to understand that the point I am simply driving at with that is the it doesn't make sense to try telling anyone else who he is, is actually the dumbness here.

Nowenuse:
Is Ebira a 2nd language to you? This is why our people cannot be tied to a Hausa rope but you can be tied to an Ebira rope.

Ebira is not a rope to tie anyone in the first instance. It is an autonomous tribe under the Oshuku group. And if we are to follow earlier your logic, your speaking of Hausa is no longer really a matter of doing so as a second language since you already have Hausafulani blood in you through repeated intermarriages from generations to generations. Hardly can you really find a middle belter without Hausa blood.

Nowenuse:
The only luck you Etunos have to claim a distinct identity from Ebira is because you people are in southern Nigeria (Edo).

The mere fact that you are bringing the issue of luck into it vindicates me as to my accusation of political mischief. If not, what is the luck in belonging to either Northern or Southern Nigeria? Weren't Etunos already a separate people of their own and with their own identity and different cultures ever before the Northern and Southern Protectorates were created?
In Etuno Language, there is an expression they use to classify an idea or tradition as 'Isa Oshuku' meaning it is an ancestral thing. They don't say 'Isa Ebira'.
Etunos are the Eldest of the Oshuku Descendants and therefore have the primogeniture right over all other Oshuku Descendants hence they can't be subsumed or supplanted by any of them.
In fact when Colonel Onuka, an Ebira man, was the Edo State Governor under Abacha regime, he never visited Igarra let alone do undertake any project in the town. Likewise, Etuno people never sent any delegation to pay him a courtesy call in his office in Benin, neither did they ever see his being Edo State governor as an opportunity to enjoy 'brotherly' advantage over other tribes. They didn't ever call his attention to any of their plights as a people let alone demand any special treatment from him. He too never bothered about them till the end of his tenure because deep down in his mind he knew he wasn't really the same people with Igarrans. Those were the truth speaking in action from both sides.
Meanwhile he ordered over 200,000 bags of cement from Ukpilla Cement Factory to his home in Ebira land where he sold some at one fifth of their actual market prices and gave out the rest free of charge, thus eroding the Factory's working capital which finally led to its collapse till CCNN bought it over recently. Why didn't he extend that Cement largesse to Etuno people if truly they see each other as one and the same? Not that Etuno people would have welcomed it anyway going by their value system.

The Ebiras residing in Igarra don't live interspersed among the natives, rather they live in their own separate communities, form Ebira unions and celebrate their own festivals in isolation because they know they are not in Ebira land.

Nice one saw my Tribe Egun

MelesZenawi:
Alright we accept the rejection of our open hands Mr Osagie.

When we comes to a man's house and he refused to let us in, then we will turn and mind our business.

Grammar doesn't solve issues, simple language does.

Continue we the WAZO, just commot the BIA.

Aha! Now you are talking!
The bolded really got me delighted as it it a testimonial coming from your very self that all these preaching of unity and oneness across totally different divides are actually more counterproductive than otherwise. According to Ahmadu Bello, Tafawa Belewa and Awolowo; the national unity and peaceful coexistence can only come when we drop this one-Nigeria doctrine, face the reality that we are actually totally different people and respect one another's differences.
It seems paradoxical but that is the only genuine path to peace and unity.

Deadlytruth:
You think the name "Afemai" actually defines every ethnicity in Edo North? It is actually an Etsako appellation but loosely applied to the Senatorial District just for political expediency. Edo North is not an ethnically homogeneous area at all.
Stop peddling ignorance.
Another evidence of your ignorance is the claim that the spread of Islam ended in Agbede. There are actually indegeous moslems in Ewu which is further south of Agbede. Mr. Man, you know nothing about Edo State. I will advise you to keep off issues concerning the place so you won't continue to embarrass yourself in a public forum.

Hmm, this part escaped me.
Yes I know that Etsakos are the ones who really identify and pursue the AFEMAI identity better compared to the Owans & Akoko edos. However, that does not mean that there are absolutely no Owans & Akoko edos who support that classification.
If an Owan or Akoko edo man wants to contest for governorship in Edo state and he goes to Etsako land to campaign, he will not waste time to identify himself and Etsako people as one AFEMAI people just to get their votes. You know, this is how we black people are.

Most Owans and Akoko edo seem wary of the AFEMAI tag cos to them, it is an Etsako agenda to subsume or dominate them.
This is similar to the way Hausa-fulanis pull the AREWA identity on we northern minorities in order to use our numbers to strengthen themselves. So brother, I understand very well where u are coming from

As for Islam stopping at Agbede, I mean this as a majority/state religion. There are even indigenous muslims at Bini, let alone Esan. However there is no Esan or Bini town that are predominantly muslims down to the level of their royal families. It doesn't exist! Because no Esan settlement came under Islamic conquest/rule.

It just like me saying that the spread of islam stopped at Bauchi in my axis. This doesn't mean that there are no indigenous muslims in Plateau state, hell no! But apart from Kanam/Wase, no other part of Plateau state came under islamic rule, this is why no other ethnic group in Plateau state outside Wase/Kanam is predominantly muslim. My own ethnic group has the largest population/percentage of muslims in Plateau state outside Kanam/Wase and this happened because we indirectly came under the rule of Bauchi Emirate for a period of time. Even with all that Bauchi influence, the muslims in my tribe never became majority, they are like 40% of our population.

Try to read someone's points to understand where the person is coming from before making hasty and silly conclusions.

MelesZenawi:
Very bitter ooo
His bitterness no be here.

Thank God I'm not the only one identifying you Deadlytruth as an inherently bitter person. You have a problem when everyone else is against you. Work on yourself!

Revolva:
See brother that is their problem let them keep decieving themselves for a religion they know nothing about that was imposed on them and forget their original traditional religion

Islam Northern igalas look down on even christain northern igalas not to even me tion southern igalas

Cos 90% of southern igalas are core traditionalist and xtains

That is Nigeria for you we like to see our selves bigger than our neighbors

It's everywhere

But we are all igalas in unity

Bro, it's not their problem alone, it's also yours cos you share an identity and space with them.

Take me for example, my ethnic group in Plateau state is like yours, half of us are muslims. In a state where most tribes are predominantly christian, muslims from my tribe get mistaken/identified as Hausa fulanis and they are not spared in cases of conflicts. I have lost relatives from this.

Not just that alone, there was a time Beroms (our neighbours) invaded one of our towns because the fulanis who attacked them usually hid in our town and disguised amongst our muslims. Although, Beroms made sure they killed only muslims, but christians from my tribe were caught amidst the crossfire and were face with a situation where they had to choose between the ethnicity and religion. The overall religious bitterness in Plateau state will gradually affect the relationship between christians and muslims within my own tribe.

I'm sure u understand my point. If for example a conflict arises in Nigeria which takes a religious dimension, trust me that your homeland will be devastated by your southern neighbours who will take your own muslims as one with the core north and you the christians will be caught amidst the crossfire.

This was similarly what lead to the ethnic cleansing of the Ottoman christians in Turkey.

The good part is that the majority of Igala muslims are not extremists just like the Yorubas, unlike the Ebiras where a large chunk are extremsists which have lead to religious crisis in Ebira land.

DeOTR:
I thought Tula people are Tangales.

I don't think they are. They may be related though.
I have just confirmed, they aren't.

Nowenuse:
Thank God I'm not the only one identifying you Deadlytruth as an inherently bitter person. You have a problem when everyone else is against you. Work on yourself!

You are only being disingenuous. To those who love lies and get absorbed in stereotypes, truth amounts to bitterness.
I guess you who started it all by claiming I have a problem is full of love and sweetness? Before you point accusing fingers, be sure your hands are clean.

Deadlytruth:
Yes I am full of bitterness and hatred for persons like you who love to impose on others your own ideas about who they are while never tolerating similar gestures from others.

As per your second paragraph, you are still wrong with your adjustment from the use of 'many' to the use of 'some'. Without prejudice to the fact that there is no concrete evidence to your claim about Azellamah family of South Ibie,
the presence, within the Etsako tribe, of a particular nuclear or even extended family with origins traceable to Nupe ancestry definitely can't translate to the sweeping generalization that some Etsakos are of Nupe origin.
Such phenomenon of inter-tribal adoption exists virtually among every tribe in Nigeria and that doesn't make the two tribes involved to become of one and the same origin. The monarchical families of both the Itsekiris and the Onitsha people are said to be of Benin ancestry yet it won't be correct for anyone to, based on that, claim that Itsekiris and Onitsha people are of Bini ancestry. Itsekiris are Yorubas while Onitsha people are Igbos. Pure and simple!
Among Etuno people, there is certain extended family whose founder is believed to be Fulani settler who married a native woman about five generations ago and thier children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and so on all got married to natives hence almost diluting out the fulani blood of their original father as at today. Does that serve as a basis to claim that Etuno people are Fulanis?
Moreover, the partial conquest and partial islamization of Etsakos by Nupes doesn't automatically impart Nupe origin in them any more than the conquest and christianization of Southern Nigerians by the British impart British blood in us.

As per the bolded, agreed that cross tribal integrations must usually happen, but no matter how, it can't be so pervasive that a people will become credited with an entirely new identity to the abandonment of their actual and original ancestry.

So it pains you that I allegedly came into the Nupe names issue with bitterness and hate without 'knowing' where you were coming from yet you first rushed into the Oshuku issue with an insultive outburst without also knowing where I was coming from? But why do Nigerians find it difficult to take back the shit they love throwing at others? I still don't get it.

I was actually the one who alluded to the fact that the bearing of Nupe names in parts of Edo-North does not credit them with Nupe origin any more than their bearing of Yoruba names also credits them with Yoruba origin. This was in response to the Yoruba guy trying to use the bearing of names as basis for blood links.
So I don't know who you claim you were discussing the Nupe issue with before I rushed in.

@ Bolded. Can you show me where I said that Etsako people are of Nupe origin? If you can't, then you have a problem. I used the word MANY, which I later adjusted to SOME, based on the way the word can be misinterpreted.

I can boldy say that 'many or some' middlebelters are of Hausa-fulani origin. There is nothing wrong here now will I ever be offended by this, cos it is true.

Nupe people are Nupes but most of the royal families have fulani blood because Mallam Dendo ( a fulani man) who took over power in Nupe land did not come there alone, he brought many with him. I have seen a Nupe guy proudly identifying with his fulani origin and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

This is what is causing serious identity crisis in Ilorin town and why people with names like Olusola, Bukola or Gbemisola will tell you that they are not yorubas even though they come from a town where no other native language is spoken other than Yoruba and yoruba cultures are practiced.
How about Anioma? Within the same Anioma family in Delta state you find some claiming they are Igbos while some outrightly rejecting it citing their great Bini origins and influences.

And yes, so many Onitshas & Itsekiris proudly identify with their Bini origins. Their monarchs even pay respects to the Oba of Benin, so I wonder how come you don't know any of this.

There are 2 kinds of conquests & colonialism in this world. The kind where the conquerors intermix with their subjects and try to integrate them culturally/religious (e.g Spanish conquest of America), while the kind where the conquerors administrate indirectly without mixing with the natives (Most of British conquests).

Islamic conquests right from it's onset have always been the first and not the second. Fulanis brought jihad to Hausaland and this is why today, there are more Hausanized fulanis than the actual pure fulanis. All the warriors in their thousands who came from Nupe land to conquer Etsako never went bank to Bida, and her is a deluded individual saying nonsense.

Deadlytruth:
I am not even fighting any battle let alone it being a lost one. How many Ebiras have you seen countering me here? They are reading and they know I am speaking the truth. Of course Ebiras are known and documented as the section of Oshuku's who occupy Kogi State, and no one has any problem about that. So what is your point?




Why do you think they don't call themselves Ebira? That tells you there is something different somewhere regardless of the relationship.



But now you are hearing it, not so?
Of course it is one day people begin to hear of what they never heard of initially. You also never initially heard of the fact that single settlement tribes exist despite you knowing a little about the very Akoko-Edo where they abound and even growing up in Edo State and having Akoko-Edo friends in UNIBEN. But now you know. So you can see that your belonging to different Middle Belt fora in even leadership capacity doesn't automatically make you omniscient about issues within that jurisdiction. Despite being Nigeria's president, what Buhari knows about the ethnic composition of the country is definitely insignificant compared with his ignorance about same.



And did any one of them ever tell you he is Ebira? Did they ever title their cultural day as 'Ebira Day'? Never! No Etuno person does that. Moreover, Etuno culture is poles apart from that of Ebira. They celebrate things like Aba Festival which marks graduation from one age group to another once in seven years, Grandparenthood attainment festival, Ubete festival by which no one goes to farm throughout that day, Ututanebe festival, Ochichakavi festival by which an exceptional achiever is given posthumous honours, Ochonine Festival by which sudden and youthful deaths are believed to be averted, etc. Ebiras don't do any of these. Their value systems differ as well. In fact an Ebira person visiting Igarra for the first time usually experiences culture shock and vice versa.



Your refusal to understand that the point I am simply driving at with that is the it doesn't make sense to try telling anyone else who he is, is actually the dumbness here.


Ebira is not a rope to tie anyone in the first instance. It is an autonomous tribe under the Oshuku group. And if we are to follow earlier your logic, your speaking of Hausa is no longer really a matter of doing so as a second language since you already have Hausafulani blood in you through repeated intermarriages from generations to generations. Hardly can you really find a middle belter without Hausa blood.



The mere fact that you are bringing the issue of luck into it vindicates me as to my accusation of political mischief. If not, what is the luck in belonging to either Northern or Southern Nigeria? Weren't Etunos already a separate people of their own and with their own identity and different cultures ever before the Northern and Southern Protectorates were created?
In Etuno Language, there is an expression they use to classify an idea or tradition as 'Isa Oshuku' meaning it is an ancestral thing. They don't say 'Isa Ebira'.
Etunos are the Eldest of the Oshuku Descendants and therefore have the primogeniture right over all other Oshuku Descendants hence they can't be subsumed or supplanted by any of them.
In fact when Colonel Onuka, an Ebira man, was the Edo State Governor under Abacha regime, he never visited Igarra let alone do undertake any project in the town. Likewise, Etuno people never sent any delegation to pay him a courtesy call in his office in Benin, neither did they ever see his being Edo State governor as an opportunity to enjoy 'brotherly' advantage over other tribes. They didn't ever call his attention to any of their plights as a people let alone demand any special treatment from him. He too never bothered about them till the end of his tenure because deep down in his mind he knew he wasn't really the same people with Igarrans. Those were the truth speaking in action from both sides.
Meanwhile he ordered over 200,000 bags of cement from Ukpilla Cement Factory to his home in Ebira land where he sold some at one fifth of their actual market prices and gave out the rest free of charge, thus eroding the Factory's working capital which finally led to its collapse till CCNN bought it over recently. Why didn't he extend that Cement largesse to Etuno people if truly they see each other as one and the same? Not that Etuno people would have welcomed it anyway going by their value system.

The Ebiras residing in Igarra don't live interspersed among the natives, rather they live in their own separate communities, form Ebira unions and celebrate their own festivals in isolation because they know they are not in Ebira land.

I went searching for this your OSHUKU stuff and found absolutely little to nothing about it.

This was the first thing I got out

https://www.nairaland.com/2097102/brief-historical-origin-ibillo-community/10

A nairaland thread where you went about again with your OHSUKU town crying last year Unfortunately for you, you were met with your match in the person of an Ebira man named 'AdeizaPaul'.

I have discovered that you are suffering from a condition. This is 'excessive ethnic minority insecurity and paranoia'. Well, being from a minorty ethnic group myself who face a worse form of attempted colonialism by our neighbouring majority, I certainly understand where you are coming from. Just that yours is too excessive and toxic.

Guess what, if I was in your shoes, I myself will also not want to identify with the Ebiras, many of whom are muslim extremist whereas my people are predominantly christian. (At least you noted that in your conversation with AdeizaPaul, so I perfectly understand where u are coming from).

I partially read your conversation with Paul and I even learnt more. So you mean Ebiras have such a large population in Ososo, to the extent that a lot of Ososo people now speak Ebira? That's interesting.

You actually have a commendable knowledge of Nigerian demographics, and I am happy to see Nigerian youths such as you and I who have some knowledge on this, cos 95% of Nigerian youths know nothing about their histories.

Lastly, you made a statement of Ebiras and Etunos being so different that Ebiras who come to Igarra experience culture shock. Pls, don't make me see your knowledge on Nigerian demographics and history to be very poor.

Are you saying that among subtribes of the same ethnic group they have the same cultures? Do Oyos, Ijebus, Ikales, Egbas, Ekitis, Aworis or Ijeshas have the same cultures?
Do Ngwas, Aniomas, Nsukkas, Nkanus, Mbaises, Afikpos, Ikwerres or Etches have the same cultures?

Oyo people experience shock in Ondo when they see Ondo people eating dogs! An Ondo lady I knew told me she hated Oyo people when she went there citing that they are too dirty and fetish with their terrible tribal marks
Igbos from Anambra who go to Ebonyi or rural Nsukka experience culture shock. This is why they call these northern Igbos a derogatory name (WAWA). I heard you complaining of how Ebiras call you guys ANNAVI, a derogatory word, so this means that you guys can never be one. Pls stop sounding childish!

An Igbo friend of mine told me her brother had to divorce his Igbo wife immediately he learnt that they worshipped Snakes in her community. There are countless instances. Different yoruba & Igbo subgroups do not even worship the same gods & goddesses.

Even among the Hausas who were seriously united by Islam under the caliphate and Danfodio, the differences are still very strong. Some Hausas address the others as BANZA BAKWAI (bastard children).
Sokoto people see Kano people as very wayward, hence they even stay somehow seperate from the Kano indigenes when they are in Kano, as they experience a form of culture shock. The only good part is that they quickly integrate by the next generation. How many more can I mention?

Even my own small tribe, I feel like an outsider whenever I am in the muslim majority parts. Before foreign religions came, my mother and father's sides worshipped different gods and had different rituals.

Nowenuse:
Hmm, this part escaped me.
Yes I know that Etsakos are the ones who really identify and pursue the AFEMAI identity better compared to the Owans & Akoko edos. However, that does not mean that there are absolutely no Owans & Akoko edos who support that classification.

So you even knew that Afemai is not really synonymous with the entire Edo North yet you initially made insinuations to the contrary just for political correctness? If I had allowed you get away with it, the contrary but wrong impression would have been created in the minds of readers here.
The mere fact that I already hinted that the term 'Afemai' is loosely applied to the entire Edo North Senatorial District is enough for anyone to understand that it is accepted by both Akoko-Edo and Owans as a unifying political (but not ethnographic) appelation. So all you have said above about the partial disposition of Akoko-Edos and Owans to it are an unnecessary repetition and an attempt to reverse yourself but cleverly.

Nowenuse:
If an Owan or Akoko edo man wants to contest for governorship in Edo state and he goes to Etsako land to campaign, he will not waste time to identify himself and Etsako people as one AFEMAI people just to get their votes. You know, this is how we black people are.

Not in the ethnographic sense but in the sense that they are people of the same Senatorial District who should cooperate for the interest of that political constituency.

Nowenuse:
Most Owans and Akoko edo seem wary of the AFEMAI tag cos to them, it is an Etsako agenda to subsume or dominate them.
This is similar to the way Hausa-fulanis pull the AREWA identity on we northern minorities in order to use our numbers to strengthen themselves. So brother, I understand very well where u are coming from

As per the bolded; but when I make such detailed and truthful clarifications; you and certain monikers claim I have a problem or that I am full of bitterness for others despite you knowing deep down in your mind where I too am coming from. You see it now? We must learn to always see things through the eyes of others especially if it is about their own affairs. This is the central theme of all my arguments here. All attempts to lump one people up with another are not really about assertion of brotherhood and love which don't really exist in concrete terms but about the intent of using them to make the numbers for greater political relevance. And that exactly is what Ebiras are doing to all other Oshuku groups by trying to impose Ebira appelation on them except those in Cross River State whom they see as too geographically far away to be of any usefulness to that project.
A Hausafulani man reading what you just wrote above will as well accuse you of bitterness and hate towards them. That is Nigeria for you. When you try to set the facts straight against an agelong false narrative, those who have been benefiting from that narrative you are trying to correct will get offended, threatened and saddened and then try to discourage you by calling you names and begin to fight you, accuse you of seeking political correctness, and even bring up easily observable verisimilitudes to substantiate their falsehood ladden positions against yours. I have seen how leaders of the Core North respond practically with veiled insults and innuendoes each time the people of Middle Belt assert their separateness.

Nowenuse:
As for Islam stopping at Agbede, I mean this as a majority/state religion. There are even indigenous muslims at Bini, let alone Esan. However there is no Esan or Bini town that are predominantly muslims down to the level of their royal families. It doesn't exist! Because no Esan settlement came under Islamic conquest/rule.

Neither the Etsako we are talking about ever really came under Islamic conquest and rule. Before the Islamic conquest could take root, the Benin Kingdom soldiers had arrived the scene to crush and halt the Jihadists. Moreover, only Auchi and immediate environs were affected contrary to the
erroneous perception today that the whole of Etsako land was invaded.

Nowenuse:
It is just like me saying that the spread of islam stopped at Bauchi in my axis. This doesn't mean that there are no indigenous muslims in Plateau state, hell no! But apart from Kanam/Wase, no other part of Plateau state came under islamic rule, this is why no other ethnic group in Plateau state outside Wase/Kanam is predominantly muslim. My own ethnic group has the largest population/percentage of muslims in Plateau state outside Kanam/Wase and this happened because we indirectly came under the rule of Bauchi Emirate for a period of time. Even with all that Bauchi influence, the muslims in my tribe never became majority, they are like 40% of our population.Try to read someone's points to understand where the person is coming from before making hasty and silly conclusions.

Hasty and silly conclusions? Hear yourself again? And you'll later turn round to accuse me of hate and bitterness if I give you back in your own coin. See your hypocrisy?
I have been asking why the average Nigerian can't take the shit he enjoys throwing at others, and no answer.
The truth remains that you are confused and you delude yourself with the assumption of omniscience regarding the ethnography of Nigeria.
If you look back at your last four posts on this thread you will discover that after making assertions about parts of Edo State you later turn around and confess your ignorance either directly or by adjusting the assertions in the face of the illogicalities I point out in them. Is this alone not enough for any honest observer to know that you are not consistent and your claims unreliable therefore?
I lived several years in the Plateau/Bauchi/Gombe axis and got farmiliarized with most of the tribes there but that doesn't grant me the license or authority to argue with a native of those areas. I have never done that and I will never do it because I, a non-native, can never really understand the people more than a native regardless of how long I stayed there. I could have chosen to play the devil's advocate with you on your last submissions about the ethnoreligious mapping of Plateau State and environs but I rather listen attentively to you a native and politely ask for clarifications where my previous knowledge conflicts with your assertions here for that is the hallmark of an educated and civilized person.

Deadlytruth:
You are only being disingenuous. To those who love lies and get absorbed in stereotypes, truth amounts to bitterness.
I guess you who started it all by claiming I have a problem is full of love and sweetness? Before you point accusing fingers, be sure your hands are clean.

I know I am not full of love and sweetness but I am not as toxic as you. You are toxic to everyone else. How many people have u seen talking about my toxicity? Rather, on this same thread, I have people commending me.

Had it been all the people having issues with you are from one ethic group, it could be understood. You have issues with Yorubas, Ebiras, Igbos, other middlebelters and who even knows if you do with Ghanaians, Egyptians and Koreans? Guy, work on yourself.

Deadlytruth:
Why do you think they don't call themselves Ebira?

Ebira/Egbirra/Egbura. If you see a big difference in this, then I give up on you. There is really no much difference, just slight pronounciation.

In fact when Colonel Onuka, an Ebira man, was the Edo State Governor under Abacha regime, he never visited Igarra let alone do undertake any project in the town. Likewise, Etuno people never sent any delegation to pay him a courtesy call in his office in Benin, neither did they ever see his being Edo State governor as an opportunity to enjoy 'brotherly' advantage over other tribes. They didn't ever call his attention to any of their plights as a people let alone demand any special treatment from him. He too never bothered about them till the end of his tenure because deep down in his mind he knew he wasn't really the same people with Igarrans. Those were the truth speaking in action from both sides.
Meanwhile he ordered over 200,000 bags of cement from Ukpilla Cement Factory to his home in Ebira land where he sold some at one fifth of their actual market prices and gave out the rest free of charge, thus eroding the Factory's working capital which finally led to its collapse till CCNN bought it over recently. Why didn't he extend that Cement largesse to Etuno people if truly they see each other as one and the same? Not that Etuno people would have welcomed it anyway going by their value system.

The Ebiras residing in Igarra don't live interspersed among the natives, rather they live in their own separate communities, form Ebira unions and celebrate their own festivals in isolation because they know they are not in Ebira land.

It is dumb to judge a whole tribe on the actions of one man.
Onuka might have not shown any affection for u guys for many reasons, probably cos he expected u guys to come to him first or he probably though favoring you guys might affect his image as people may see him as a tribalist or perhaps cos he thought you guys were too small and insignificant. I doubt he would have ignored u guys if u had a large population.
Anyway, judging a whole tribe on one man like I said is ultra dumb.

@2nd paragraph. And do you think Anambra or Ngwa people living in Ebonyi do not celebrate their own festivals even though they are in Igbo land? Even within Kogi, Ebira Tao and Ebira Koto are not really united as one people.

The only issue is that Ebira taos are like 50% or more of all Ebiras and they carry Ebira identity for head, making others like you think it belongs to them alone.

Deadlytruth:
So you even knew that Afemai is not really synonymous with the entire Edo North yet you initially made insinuations to the contrary just for political correctness? If I had allowed you get away with it, the contrary but wrong impression would have been created in the minds of readers here.
The mere fact that I already hinted that the term 'Afemai' is loosely applied to the entire Edo North Senatorial District is enough for anyone to understand that it is accepted by both Akoko-Edo and Owans as a unifying political (but not ethnographic) appelation. So all you have said above about the partial disposition of Akoko-Edos and Owans to it are an unnecessary repetition and an attempt to reverse yourself but cleverly.

Not in the ethnographic sense but in the sense that they are people of the same Senatorial District who should cooperate for the interest of that political constituency.

Gosh, why do you like forcing words out of people's mouths? Where did I ever say that I know that Afemai is not synonymous to Edo north? What I said is that Estakos are the ones who are more serious with the identity cos it seems most likely to benefit them more than the others considering their numbers.

My father and grandfather believe they are AREWA men cos in their time everyone identified with it. Some of my people here in the south occasionally call themselves Hausas, yes (especially when they are in conversation with southerners). Cos most southerners addressed them as Hausas and some of them have come to accept it here cos they know that no matter how much they explained, most still don't get it. In Warri where I live, if you are looking for my mother in the street where her business is, you have to ask for HAUSA WOMAN

Today, most of us the youths are rejecting Arewa identity cos we have seen that it is a dubious project. There are middlebelters who still believe in the Arewa project as well as there are still Owans and Akoko edos who believe in the Afemai project. So, it would be silly for you to say I am leaving a wrong impression for readers about AFEMAI tag. Just like I cannot really tell that to someone who claims our people are Arewa people. I can only come in when someone claims that we are Hausa people or all Arewa people are the same.

As per the bolded; but when I make such detailed and truthful clarifications; you and certain monikers claim I have a problem or that I am full of bitterness for others despite you knowing deep down in your mind where I too am coming from. You see it now? We must learn to always see things through the eyes of others especially if it is about their own affairs. This is the central theme of all my arguments here. All attempts to lump one people up with another are not really about assertion of brotherhood and love which don't really exist in concrete terms but about the intent of using them to make the numbers for greater political relevance. And that exactly is what Ebiras are doing to all other Oshuku groups by trying to impose Ebira appelation on them except those in Cross River State whom they see as too geographically far away to be of any usefulness to that project.
A Hausafulani man reading what you just wrote above will as well accuse you of bitterness and hate towards them. That is Nigeria for you. When you try to set the facts straight against an agelong false narrative, those who have been benefiting from that narrative you are trying to correct will get offended, threatened and saddened and then try to discourage you by calling you names and begin to fight you, accuse you of seeking political correctness, and even bring up easily observable verisimilitudes to substantiate their falsehood ladden positions against yours. I have seen how leaders of the Core North respond practically with veiled insults and innuendoes each time the people of Middle Belt assert their separateness.

Yes. I don't have a problem with people asserting their uniqueness or independence as a people from a union especially when they know that such union is dubious or founded on oppression.
My only problem is when that person goes about projecting false facts, highlighting only the negatives of the other group and attacking every other person who has a contrary opinion to theirs, which is what you are doing.

Tell us only the true reasons why you don't want your people in a union and not bringing up all manners of unfounded and silly analogies like Ebiras experiencing culture shock in Igarra when this is common with people of the same ethnic group all over Nigeria and the world at large.

Just like you said, we should all try to see from the views of others and not just ours. Majorities tend to get angry when we minorities deny them, not just because they are obsessed with us or love us so much or want to use us to their advantage. Sometimes, it is also because of the image. If someone named Oyiza Adaviruku commits a crime or does something bad, Ebiras go to the mind of everyone and Ebira people around can even get killed for this depending on the gravity and location of the situation, nobody even knows or care to know if that Oyiza claims she is not an Ebira. This is why most Igbos get angry when Aniomas deny them. Nzeogwu's coup was called an Igbo coup and millions of Igbos paid for the coup with their lives. How will you feel if you were an Igbo who lost your family in the war only to see Nzeogwu's son denying his Igboness and attacking Igbos tomorrow?

Personally, I really do not see any reason why people who share a lot in common would choose to be different from each other especially when there are no irreconciliable differences like religion (when the people are a religious people).
Had it been most of we hausa speaking middlebelters were muslims or the Hausas themselves were not an extremely religious people, I wouldn't see anything wrong if we drop our small insignificant and numerous identities for a larger one for the sake of greater unity and influence, inspite of the fact that we and Hausas are very very different from each other by origin, culture and language. Let alone your people and Ebiras who have the same native language and origin

We black people sometimes like unnecessary divisions and this is one thing affecting us as a people. Every village wants to become autonomous as an ethnic group of their own.

Nowenuse:
I went searching for this your OSHUKU stuff and found absolutely little to nothing about it.

This was the first thing I got out

https://www.nairaland.com/2097102/brief-historical-origin-ibillo-community/10

A nairaland thread where you went about again with your OHSUKU town crying last year Unfortunately for you, you were met with your match in the person of an Ebira man named 'AdeizaPaul'.

I have discovered that you are suffering from a condition. This is 'excessive ethnic minority insecurity and paranoia'. Well, being from a minorty ethnic group myself who face a worse form of attempted colonialism by our neighbouring majority, I certainly understand where you are coming from. Just that yours is too excessive and toxic.

Guess what, if I was in your shoes, I myself will also not want to identify with the Ebiras, many of whom are muslim extremist whereas my people are predominantly christian. (At least you noted that in your conversation with AdeizaPaul, so I perfectly understand where u are coming from).

I partially read your conversation with Paul and I even learnt more. So you mean Ebiras have such a large population in Ososo, to the extent that a lot of Ososo people now speak Ebira? That's interesting.

You actually have a commendable knowledge of Nigerian demographics, and I am happy to see Nigerian youths such as you and I who have some knowledge on this, cos 95% of Nigerian youths know nothing about their histories.

Lastly, you made a statement of Ebiras and Etunos being so different that Ebiras who come to Igarra experience culture shock. Pls, don't make me see your knowledge on Nigerian demographics and history to be very poor.

Are you saying that among subtribes of the same ethnic group they have the same cultures? Do Oyos, Ijebus, Ikales, Egbas, Ekitis, Aworis or Ijeshas have the same cultures?
Do Ngwas, Aniomas, Nsukkas, Nkanus, Mbaises, Afikpos, Ikwerres or Etches have the same cultures?

Oyo people experience shock in Ondo when they see Ondo people eating dogs! An Ondo lady I knew told me she hated Oyo people when she went there citing that they are too dirty and fetish with their terrible tribal marks
Igbos from Anambra who go to Ebonyi or rural Nsukka experience culture shock. This is why they call these northern Igbos a derogatory name (WAWA). I heard you complaining of how Ebiras call you guys ANNAVI, a derogatory word, so this means that you guys can never be one. Pls stop sounding childish!

An Igbo friend of mine told me her brother had to divorce his Igbo wife immediately he learnt that they worshipped Snakes in her community. There are countless instances. Different yoruba & Igbo subgroups do not even worship the same gods & goddesses.

Even among the Hausas who were seriously united by Islam under the caliphate and Danfodio, the differences are still very strong. Some Hausas address the others as BANZA BAKWAI (bastard children).
Sokoto people see Kano people as very wayward, hence they even stay somehow seperate from the Kano indigenes when they are in Kano, as they experience a form of culture shock. The only good part is that they quickly integrate by the next generation. How many more can I mention?

Even my own small tribe, I feel like an outsider whenever I am in the muslim majority parts. Before foreign religions came, my mother and father's sides worshipped different gods and had different rituals.

The nsukkas or the Ebonyians are not called WAWA, because of any cultural shock the Anambras experience. You guys need to quit this derogatory information you pass always about this people.

These people are called WAWAs, coz they say Wa/Wawa/Wawa kwa for Mba, which means No in English language. Please be guided. Their is really nothing derogative about them.

Wot of the egbas and ijebus in ogun.

Deadlytruth:
Neither the Etsako we are talking about ever really came under Islamic conquest and rule. Before the Islamic conquest could take root, the Benin Kingdom soldiers had arrived the scene to crush and halt the Jihadists. Moreover, only Auchi and immediate environs were affected contrary to the
erroneous perception today that the whole of Etsako land was invaded.

Binis & Esans stopped the spread of the Nupe/fulani jihadists and defeated them. However, they did not go into Auchi to chase out the jihadists or dismantle the structure these jihadists had put in place. Anybody who claims that is a big fat liar.
I've had the opportunity to visit rural Etsako and stayed there through my inlaw. I inquired about the culture. There are many northern/hausa cultures ingrained in there. E.g, the oldest man/woman in an Etsako community is called MAGAJI/MAGAJIYA, and they play certain roles. ... Gosh, this is a pure hausa culture.
These cultures and the islamic religion couldn't have been ingrained in Etsako if the Benin warriors had quickly dismantled the presence of the jihadists in Etsako.

No, the whole of Etsako came under jihad, just that the seat of power was in Etsako west, hence the influence was seen to be greater in Etsako west. This is how an islamic emirate/caliphate works. Among many northern/middlebelt Nigerian tribes that came under jihad/islamic influence, it is very common to see more of the islamic influence in the townships/seat of power where the jihadists were based compared to the surrounding areas! .......
This is also seen even among the heavily islamized Hausas themselves. For example, it is very difficult to find an indigenous Hausa christian person or hausa christian community in Sokoto and surrounding parts of Sokoto like Zamfara or northern Kebbi. However, as you go eastwards aways from the seat of the caliphate into Katsina/Zaria/Kano, there are millions of Hausa indigenous christians in the rural areas here. This does not mean that the whole of Hausa land wasn't invaded.
It is very common to drive through a LGA in parts of the north and you find a muslim majority population in that town but as soon as you drive through the villages or smaller towns in that same LGA, you find an overwhelming christian majority even to the extent that you may never find a single mosque.

This is almost the same thing in my own ethnic group and other ethnic groups of the north/middlebelt who accepted islam by trade/indirect rule. In my hometown which is the capital of my ethnic group, muslims dominate the town center but as soon as you go inwards, christians dominate. Okene which is the capital of Ebira tao is overwhelmingly muslim in population, but most of the other Ebira towns and villages are 50/50 or predominantly christian.
So the fact that islamic influence is not as strong in Etsako central or Etsako east as it is in Etsako west is not a pointer to the fact that only Etsako west was invaded, no! ....Etsako west was just the headquarters.

Hasty and silly conclusions? Hear yourself again? And you'll later turn round to accuse me of hate and bitterness if I give you back in your own coin. See your hypocrisy?
I have been asking why the average Nigerian can't take the shit he enjoys throwing at others, and no answer.
The truth remains that you are confused and you delude yourself with the assumption of omniscience regarding the ethnography of Nigeria.
If you look back at your last four posts on this thread you will discover that after making assertions about parts of Edo State you later turn around and confess your ignorance either directly or by adjusting the assertions in the face of the illogicalities I point out in them. Is this alone not enough for any honest observer to know that you are not consistent and your claims unreliable therefore?
I lived several years in the Plateau/Bauchi/Gombe axis and got farmiliarized with most of the tribes there but that doesn't grant me the license or authority to argue with a native of those areas. I have never done that and I will never do it because I, a non-native, can never really understand the people more than a native regardless of how long I stayed there. I could have chosen to play the devil's advocate with you on your last submissions about the ethnoreligious mapping of Plateau State and environs but I rather listen attentively to you a native and politely ask for clarifications where my previous knowledge conflicts with your assertions here for that is the hallmark of an educated and civilized person.

You have a terrible character of saying someone said this or insinuated this when the person never did. You are very manipulative in nature. Can you show me where I made a hasty conclusion about parts of Edo state which I later turned around to confess my ignorance?
If you are talking about the issue of single ethnic group settlements of Akoko edo, I never made a conclusive statement on this. I asked a question about it, just that my question appeared conclusive to you and I understand why. I asked ''aren't these akoko edo towns just normal towns instead of independent ethnic groups?''. It was never a conclusive STATEMENT. It was a question. I have attached a screenshot of my comment below, look at it for yourself.
If someone asks me, ''since you speak Hausa, are you not an ethnic hausa?". I cannot say that this is a conclusive statement. It is still a question no matter how it sounds.

I adjusted my claims of ''MANY Etsako people are of Nupe origin'' to ''SOME Etsako people are of Nupe origin'' because of the way the previous phrase can easily be misinterpreted by people like you to mean that I am insinuating that ''MAJORITY of Etsako people are of Nupe origin, when this is not what I mean.

For instance, if I say ''MANY yorubas have tribal marks'' and ''SOME yorubas have tribal marks''. I could be basically saying the same thing.... MANY here means (a significant number and not a majority). MANY is indefinite, depending on how you choose to interprete it. I did not edit the statement because I was wrong, no. I edited it because I know the statememt can easily be misconstrued.

So, can you show me which hasty conclusions I made about parts of Edo state which I turned around to confess due to my ignorance?

Below is a screenshot also from this same thread when I was telling someone of Etsako extraction how much the AFEMAI tag doesn't work when he claimed it is an ethnic group. And funny enough, you have accused me of being troublesome in this regard. Lol

Deadlytruth:
I lived several years in the Plateau/Bauchi/Gombe axis and got farmiliarized with most of the tribes there but that doesn't grant me the license or authority to argue with a native of those areas. I have never done that and I will never do it because I, a non-native, can never really understand the people more than a native regardless of how long I stayed there. I could have chosen to play the devil's advocate with you on your last submissions about the ethnoreligious mapping of Plateau State and environs but I rather listen attentively to you a native and politely ask for clarifications where my previous knowledge conflicts with your assertions here for that is the hallmark of an educated and civilized person.

There is nothing wrong with you a non native of Plateau arguing with me on issues of Plateau state or environs, as long as you have solid facts to back up your arguments.

The assertions of the natives of a place about their place and people a lot of times turn out to be false or heavily exaggerated because of a nationalistic ego.

I have seen people from Plateau and Southern Kaduna insinuate that their people are all christians and that every muslim in their region is a Hausa fulani settler. This is exaggerated. It comes from a nationalistic ego to preserve the christian identity of their people.
Outsiders who know nothing can easily believe this, afterall the image and perception of these places are christian. However, this is not true. It is exaggerated. MANY ( ) Plateau and Southern Kaduna indigenes from various tribes are actually muslims, just that they are a minority.

I have seen several Hausas swear to me that there are no predominantly indigenous christian communities in Hausa land. Are you saying that because I am not a native Hausa, then I should swallow this kind of lie hook line and sinker unchallenged? When I know that this is very very false? I easily confront these lying Hausas with hard facts because I have them.

People do not always say the truth about their homelands, so if you have facts to counter these people, you shouldn't keep quiet for any reason and let them misinform the public. I am very open to anyone who wants to challenge my assertions about my own village as long as they have facts and serious points. That's it.

Nowenuse:
Bro, it's not their problem alone, it's also yours cos you share an identity and space with them.

Take me for example, my ethnic group in Plateau state is like yours, half of us are muslims. In a state where most tribes are predominantly christian, muslims from my tribe get mistaken/identified as Hausa fulanis and they are not spared in cases of conflicts. I have lost relatives from this.

Not just that alone, there was a time Beroms (our neighbours) invaded one of our towns because the fulanis who attacked them usually hid in our town and disguised amongst our muslims. Although, Beroms made sure they killed only muslims, but christians from my tribe were caught amidst the crossfire and were face with a situation where they had to choose between the ethnicity and religion. The overall religious bitterness in Plateau state will gradually affect the relationship between christians and muslims within my own tribe.

I'm sure u understand my point. If for example a conflict arises in Nigeria which takes a religious dimension, trust me that your homeland will be devastated by your southern neighbours who will take your own muslims as one with the core north and you the christians will be caught amidst the crossfire.

This was similarly what lead to the ethnic cleansing of the Ottoman christians in Turkey.

The good part is that the majority of Igala muslims are not extremists just like the Yorubas, unlike the Ebiras where a large chunk are extremsists which have lead to religious crisis in Ebira land.

Yes that is true igala Muslims are non extremist that is because igalas have good heart

What ever bro I don't care about religion ok I am more of a spiritual person that all these foreign rubbish religions

Nowenuse:
@ Bolded. Can you show me where I said that Etsako people are of Nupe origin? If you can't, then you have a problem. I used the word MANY, which I later adjusted to SOME, based on the way the word can be misinterpreted.

I can boldy say that 'many or some' middlebelters are of Hausa-fulani origin. There is nothing wrong here now will I ever be offended by this, cos it is true.

The premise under which you asserted that many Etsako people are of Nupe origin made it clear that you meant that Etsakos are Nupes. A Yoruba moniker claimed that the bearing of Yoruba names by Edos translates to them being Yorubas. I then asked him if the bearing of Nupe names by certain individuals in Edo also makes them Nupes. This was the premise of the argument, and you rushed in to claim that many Afemais are Nupes. Judged against the background premise, you simply were saying that the bearing of Nupe names by Afemais means they are Nupes. Simple. If however we are to accept your new claim of not insinuating such, then we can safely conclude that your position was irrelevant to the issue in focus hence you were an intruder with ulterior motive. Had it been the premise was that the bearing of Yoruba names in Edo makes many or some Edos Yorubas, then your adjusted claim above could be said to be related to the topic. In essence you jumped into an issue you didn't even understand in the first instance.

Nowenuse:
Nupe people are Nupes but most of the royal families have FULANI blood because Mallam Dendo ( a fulani man) who took over power in Nupe land did not come there alone, he brought many with him. I have seen a Nupe guy proudly identifying with his fulani origin and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

This is what is causing serious identity crisis in Ilorin town and why people with names like Olusola, Bukola or Gbemisola will tell you that they are not yorubas even though they come from a town where no other native language is spoken other than Yoruba and yoruba cultures are practiced.
How about Anioma? Within the same Anioma family in Delta state you find some claiming they are Igbos while some outrightly rejecting it citing their great Bini origins and influences.

And yes, so many Onitshas & Itsekiris proudly identify with their Bini origins. Their monarchs even pay respects to the Oba of Benin, so I wonder how come you don't know any of this.

You love citing instances which are unrelated to topics under discussion. How exactly are all these Nupe vs Fulanis in Ilorin issue of any relevance to the question of borrowed names amounting to blood links?
Go to an Igbo forum tell them that Onitsha's are of Benin origin and see if you will come out the same as you went in. Only their monarchical line is of Benin origin and that can't be used as a basis for the sweeping generalization that Onitsha people are of Bini origin. If so, why is their local language Igbo and not Bini? Itsekiris don't have Bini origin. They themselves have made it clear that they are migrants from Yorubaland who, on arrival at their present location, accepted to be ruled by a Bini prince called Ginuwa whose dynasty subsists till today. They generally don't identify themselves as Bini in origin but confess to heavy Bini influence on their culture on account of the Bini dynasty ruling over them. If they were actually of Bini origin, then the Urhobos who claim same ancestry with Binis wouldn't have had any problem having the Itsekiris' monarch being given traditional authority over the entire Warri. You are hardly ever logical in your wild and bogus claims.

Nowenuse:
There are 2 kinds of conquests & colonialism in this world. The kind where the conquerors intermix with their subjects and try to integrate them culturally/religious (e.g Spanish conquest of America), while the kind where the conquerors administrate indirectly without mixing with the natives (Most of British conquests).

Islamic conquests right from it's onset have always been the first and not the second. Fulanis brought jihad to Hausaland and this is why today, there are more Hausanized fulanis than the actual pure fulanis. All the warriors in their thousands who came from Nupe land to conquer Etsako never went bank to Bida, and her is a deluded individual saying nonsense.

Assuming without conceding that the Nupe warriors who came to Etsako didn't return, then does that now automatically translate to 'many' Etsakos being of Nupe origin?
Nupes invaded nearly everywhere in today's Edo North yet in Akoko-Edo and Owan the vestiges of Nupe culture are almost insignificant. I guess the Nupes who invaded Akoko-Edo and Owan went back after their mission while those who invaded Etsako stayed behind? Can't you see that your stories are not adding up? Can you?
And the fact that in some posts you claim it was Nupes who conquered Etsako while in others you claim the Hausafulani Jihadists did makes it clear that you don't even know what you are saying.
To set the facts straight, Nupes only came to buy slaves from the willing ethnic groups long after the Usman Dan Fodio led Jihadists had come and gone.
I repeat; you are an ignoramus!

Nowenuse:
I went searching for this your OSHUKU stuff and found absolutely little to nothing about it.

This was the first thing I got out

https://www.nairaland.com/2097102/brief-historical-origin-ibillo-community/10

A nairaland thread where you went about again with your OHSUKU town crying last year Unfortunately for you, you were met with your match in the person of an Ebira man named 'AdeizaPaul'.

Your ulterior motive is getting more evidenced. So you didn't see the line where Adeiza Paul himself said as follows: be it Ebira, Etuno, Egbura, etc... we are all Ohiku (Oshuku) descendants? It is a pity you have chosen to be this dishonest just in pursuit of braggadocio even in the face of hard facts from your own referenced source.

I am not in doubt that you saw the image below in your search results and on opening it, you saw Adeiza Paul, an Egira man, making the assertion that appears on the search results but for shame of having to eat your words you have chosen to keep hiding behind a finger. What a shame! The image below makes nonsense of all your argument here. Thank God I wasn't the one who wrote it but one among those for whom you are crying more than the bereaved. These people themselves know the truth that the genuine generic name is Oshuku/Ohiku and when faced with the fact the honest ones succumb. But here is an interloper following the corpse right into the grave. Wonders shall never really end.

Nowenuse:
I have discovered that you are suffering from a condition. This is 'excessive ethnic minority insecurity and paranoia'. Well, being from a minorty ethnic group myself who face a worse form of attempted colonialism by our neighbouring majority, I certainly understand where you are coming from. Just that yours is too excessive and toxic.

Again, I didn't really expect you to do a honest and open minded search as your predetermined mindset is obvious. If not, why would you limit yourself to Nairaland posts when a lot is on Facebook and websites opened by nearly every tribe and ethnic groups to explain and assert their identities are all over cyber space? You fool no one.
Check yourself very well. The paranoia is with you. What I have discovered is that you are suffering from anti Middle Belt paranoia. Of course, based on your own claim of having led a lot of Middle Belt groups in administrative capacity, your commitment to the Middle Belt course is not in doubt hence you feel threatened by any perceived attack on any fellow Middle Belt ethnicity. But your excessive and toxic suspicion that others from the Core North or South are trying to unravel the Middle Belt unity and solidarity is really more of imagination than reality.

Nowenuse:
Guess what, if I was in your shoes, I myself will also not want to identify with the Ebiras, many of whom are muslim extremist whereas my people are predominantly christian. (At least you noted that in your conversation with AdeizaPaul, so I perfectly understand where u are coming from).

You couldn't have ever been in my shoes as I am only out to put records straight and I can beat my chest here that of all the engagements I have had on NL I always stick to facts and logic, and those who can't stand it resort to calling me names. I actually enjoy it because once people demonize you without provocation, then your submissions are hitting hard somewhere in their hearts deliberately ladden with falsehoods.

Nowenuse:
I partially read your conversation with Paul and I even learnt more. So you mean Ebiras have such a large population in Ososo, to the extent that a lot of Ososo people now speak Ebira? That's interesting.

Per the furst bolded, that is a Freudian slip evidence of the fact that you don't really read thoroughly hence just jump into discussions you really don't understand hence make irrelevant contributions just to play the devil's advocate.
The second bolded is an additional evidence of this lack of understanding before jumping in issues. So you didn't see it there that I only joined Adeiza Paul in so assuming (but without conceding) just to point his attention to a self contradiction of his? Chai!

Nowenuse:
You actually have a commendable knowledge of Nigerian demographics, and I am happy to see Nigerian youths such as you and I who have some knowledge on this, cos 95% of Nigerian youths know nothing about their histories. Lastly, you made a statement of Ebiras and Etunos being so different that Ebiras who come to Igarra experience culture shock. Pls, don't make me see your knowledge on Nigerian demographics and history to be very poor.

Just take a look at the two bolded statements coming from you right in the same comment. Aren't I vindicated for my insistence that you are confused? You commend someone's knowledge about a thing in one line, and in another neighboring line you threaten to view as poor the person's knowledge about the same thing.
Am I seeing someone who claimed to have attended UNIBEN but didn't offer Philosophy and Logic as part of his course content?
Well I don't really need your commendation. It is all a poisoned chalice as your self contradiction above proves. If your acknowledgement above were heartfelt, then you would have been polite in disagreeing with me and respectfully stating your opinion and then asking for further clarification. But your use of gutter language in your very first response to me put your across as self opinionated but actually empty.

Nowenuse:
Are you saying that among subtribes of the same ethnic group they have the same cultures? Do Oyos, Ijebus, Ikales, Egbas, Ekitis, Aworis or Ijeshas have the same cultures?
Do Ngwas, Aniomas, Nsukkas, Nkanus, Mbaises, Afikpos, Ikwerres or Etches have the same cultures?

Oyo people experience shock in Ondo when they see Ondo people eating dogs! An Ondo lady I knew told me she hated Oyo people when she went there citing that they are too dirty and fetish with their terrible tribal marks
Igbos from Anambra who go to Ebonyi or rural Nsukka experience culture shock. This is why they call these northern Igbos a derogatory name (WAWA). I heard you complaining of how Ebiras call you guys ANNAVI, a derogatory word, so this means that you guys can never be one. Pls stop sounding childish!

You are the one sounding childish and inconsistent. With the bolded above you yourself have subconsciously admitted the difference between Ebiras and Etunos. According to you...'If Ebiras call you annavi......' If Etunos are Ebiras as you would die arguing, then why didn't you frame the poser as follows...'If Ebiras call you Ebiras annavi......'. See how truth speaks for itself even in the mouths of falsehood peddlers? Who then are the Ebiras and who are the 'you' here? To help your ignorance again, a person doesn't call his own same of the same any derogatory name as it would mean that he himself is exactly whatever that derogatory name connotes.

Nowenuse:
An Igbo friend of mine told me her brother had to divorce his Igbo wife immediately he learnt that they worshipped Snakes in her community. There are countless instances. Different yoruba & Igbo subgroups do not even worship the same gods & goddesses.

Even among the Hausas who were seriously united by Islam under the caliphate and Danfodio, the differences are still very strong. Some Hausas address the others as BANZA BAKWAI (bastard children).
Sokoto people see Kano people as very wayward, hence they even stay somehow seperate from the Kano indigenes when they are in Kano, as they experience a form of culture shock. The only good part is that they quickly integrate by the next generation. How many more can I mention?

Even my own small tribe, I feel like an outsider whenever I am in the muslim majority parts. Before foreign religions came, my mother and father's sides worshipped different gods and had different rituals.

All you have spewed above actually help to advance my argument against yours. You know why and how?
If Oyo people experience culture shock in Ondo, then it means Oyos are not Ondos. Likewise, if Anambra people experience shock in Ebonyi, then it means Anambrarians are not Ebonyians and vice versa. Similarly Ebiras experience culture shock in Etuno, then it follows that Etunos are not Ebiras and vice versa.
Can an Anambra man experience culture shock in Anambra? Can a WAWA man experience culture shock in a WAWA community? Can an Nsukka man experience culture shock in Nsukka? Would Etunos have been experiencing culture shock in Ebiraland if they were Ebiras? I hope you yourself can see how you butressed my argument with your sited instances.
Isn't it funny that of the nearly six factors I mentioned it is only the culture shock issue you chose to respond to and which you still did so badly that you ended up scoring an own goal? What do you have to say about my mention of the fact that Etuno resident Ebiras don't live interspersed among the natives but aggregate themselves in their separate exclusive locations, form Ebira cultural unions because they know they are not in Ebiraland, celebrate their own festivals in isolation, etc? You can never really respond to these ones. They are too unassailable!

Nowenuse:
I know I am not full of love and sweetness but I am not as toxic as you. You are toxic to everyone else. How many people have u seen talking about my toxicity? Rather, on this same thread, I have people commending me.

Yes, the truth is surely toxic to peddlers of falsehood and revisionist tales. Much as lies loving folks like you accuse me of toxicity, hardly comments ever go without at least a like. When everyone loves you and praises you, then it is either you are deceiving them or they are deceiving you. People don't like those who are blunt and have no use for political correctness. A good example of such was Ahmadu Bello. He was hated by most Southerners and as a toxic person. In times past, that bug of hatred for him caught me. I viewed him as toxic and brash. But on critical examination of his arguments about Nigeria's unity for which he suffered demonization, I discovered he was blunt and too candid for the politically correct persons to be at peace with him. In an press interview he granted, he was asked by a British journalist whether his insistence on reducing the number of Southerners employed in the Northern Region Civil Service was not inimical to 'one-Nigeria' doctrine. In response he asked how many Northerners were employed in the Eastern or Western Region Civil Service. The journalists was only able to keep gazing at him.
Was 'one-Nigeria' due to be upheld only in the Northern Region? That is kind of person I am. I say it as it really is for that is the only genuine path to peaceful coexistence.

Nowenuse:
Had it been all the people having issues with you are from one ethic group, it could be understood. You have issues with Yorubas, Ebiras, Igbos, other middlebelters and who even knows if you do with Ghanaians, Egyptians and Koreans? Guy, work on yourself.

All these your adhominem attacks don't bother me. What will bother me is that you are able to counter me with Superior and logically flawless argument.
Liars and falsehood peddlers come from nearly every tribe so I can't but have issues with persons from every tribe just as I am admired by the lovers of truth from equally all tribes. Where and when my people are wrong I don't deny or rationalize it. I admit it effortlessly. I will not tolerate it seeing someone from my ethnicity imposing himself on another.

Nowenuse:
Ebira/Egbirra/Egbura. If you see a big difference in this, then I give up on you. There is really no much difference, just slight pronounciation.

Where and how exactly do you place the dividing line which demarcates a big difference from a small difference?
Why is there a difference at all?

Nowenuse:
It is dumb to judge a whole tribe on the actions of one man. Onuka might have not shown any affection for u guys for many reasons, probably cos he expected u guys to come to him first or he probably though favoring you guys might affect his image as people may see him as a tribalist or perhaps cos he thought you guys were too small and insignificant. I doubt he would have ignored u guys if u had a large population.

Have the Etunos' population become 'significant' now that Onuka's people want them under the same identity albeit superimposed?
He didn't want to be seen as a tribalist yet he stole 200,000 bags of cement and shared it only among his own people? Do you even really go through what you write before posting them? Those who steal and don't want to be seen as tribalists do so and put all the proceeds in their individual pockets or share it among close associates cutting across different tribes. That is how to steal in a detribalized manner. We accuse our politicians of becoming true Nigerians in looting because they share the booties among themselves regardless of tribe and religion. Whenever an EFCC probe report surfaces you see all tribes and religions fairly represented in the distribution of culprits.

Nowenuse:
Anyway, judging a whole tribe on one man like I said is ultra dumb.

It is both dumb and moronic to isolate one of many instances of evidence given to substantiate a point and then term it as a case of judging a whole tribe with the action of one person. It is ultra moronic. I mentioned Onuka's case among many other assorted evidences to prove a point and in your usual poor comprehension you picked it in isolation. Your case is really serious. You are confused, I repeat. Go and re-read that part as an integrated whole before you start fooling yourself. A sensible person who even misunderstood such a point would rather first ask for more similar instances and only when such can't be furnished can he really make the accusation of judging a people with the action of an individual. But your premeditated mindset would not allow you take the path of common sense. Confused clown.

Nowenuse:
@2nd paragraph. And do you think Anambra or Ngwa people living in Ebonyi do not celebrate their own festivals even though they are in Igbo land? Even within Kogi, Ebira Tao and Ebira Koto are not really united as one people.

Do Ebonyi-resident Anambra and Ngwa people live in isolated exclusive communities there? Do they celebrate their festivals there in isolation? Stop sounding like a broken record.
Per the bolded; then what exactly is your point? Self contradiction galore. Why are they not united as one people if I may ask? Care to explain?

Nowenuse:
The only issue is that Ebira taos are like 50% or more of all Ebiras and they carry Ebira identity for head, making others like you think it belongs to them alone.

Your friend, Adeiza Paul, has himself made it clear to you in his post that it is Oshuku appelation that belongs to everyone. Go back there and read thoroughly this time around. I hope you will not accuse him of bitterness when you see where he wrote that in clear and unmistakable terms. Go back there now.

Nowenuse:
Gosh, why do you like forcing words out of people's mouths? Where did I ever say that I know that Afemai is not synonymous to Edo north? What I said is that Estakos are the ones who are more serious with the identity cos it seems most likely to benefit them more than the others considering their numbers.

So you don't know that your later adjustment of your earlier statement is tantamount to knowing that Afemai is not synonymous to the whole Edo North? Do you need people to say certain things verbatim for you to know they have knowledge of it? If I say "I am going there now to see him now that he has arrived', do I still need to specifically say 'I know he has arrived' before you believe that I am actually aware of his arrival? Stop hiding behind a finger. You are only playing smart without really being clever.

Nowenuse:
My father and grandfather believe they are AREWA men cos in their time everyone identified with it. Some of my people here in the south occasionally call themselves Hausas, yes (especially when they are in conversation with southerners). Cos most southerners addressed them as Hausas and some of them have come to accept it here cos they know that no matter how much they explained, most still don't get it. In Warri where I live, if you are looking for my mother in the street where her business is, you have to ask for HAUSA WOMAN

Today, most of us the youths are rejecting Arewa identity cos we have seen that it is a dubious project. There are middlebelters who still believe in the Arewa project as well as there are still Owans and Akoko edos who believe in the Afemai project. So, it would be silly for you to say I am leaving a wrong impression for readers about AFEMAI tag. Just like I cannot really tell that to someone who claims our people are Arewa people. I can only come in when someone claims that we are Hausa people or all Arewa people are the same.

Can you site an instance or furnish a link to substantiate this claim that there are still Akoko-Edos and Owans who still believe in the Afemai project despite you yourself having acknowledged earlier than it is rightly viewed by them as an Etsako agenda being masqueraded as an all Edo North thing? If anything, Oshiomhole's record of consistently giving all positions to Etsako people and sitting in Etsako all projects meant for Edo North is the last straw that broke the camel's back since as far back as during his second term as governor. Even some honest Etsakos no longer believe in the Afemai thing let alone Akoko-Edos and Owans. Any of the latter still claiming to believe in it can only doing so for an ulterior motive.

Nowenuse:
Yes. I don't have a problem with people asserting their uniqueness or independence as a people from a union especially when they know that such union is dubious or founded on oppression.
My only problem is when that person goes about projecting false facts, highlighting only the negatives of the other group and attacking every other person who has a contrary opinion to theirs, which is what you are doing.

Even when you have seen the fact clearly from your own chosen source (Adeiza Paul)?
Don't tell me you are this dubious. Thank God it was you who mentioned him and credited him with victory in the debate. I have shown you the screen capture of what he himself asserted in corroboration of my exposition. You are so pained. But live with it. Next time stay out of issues which don't yet comprehend.

Nowenuse:
Tell us only the true reasons why you don't want your people in a union and not bringing up all manners of unfounded and silly analogies like Ebiras experiencing culture shock in Igarra when this is common with people of the same ethnic group all over Nigeria and the world at large.

Your friend, source and mentor, Paul Adeiza, has himself told you that it is simply about the fact that the actual generic name is being eroded and supplanted. Go back to that post and read through his comments thoroughly.
I guess you don't even know the difference between ethnic group and tribe.
Those who have unnatural motives for rejection of being part of groups assume others are like them. This is just your problem. I asked you why the Oshukus in Cross River are not coopted into this hullabaloo but you have continued to dodge this part because it is the most devastating of all evidences that you are crying more than the bereaved. Tell us why you have consciously avoided responding to this particular poser.

Nowenuse:
Just like you said, we should all try to see from the views of others and not just ours. Majorities tend to get angry when we minorities deny them, not just because they are obsessed with us or love us so much or want to use us to their advantage. Sometimes, it is also because of the image. If someone named Oyiza Adaviruku commits a crime or does something bad, Ebiras go to the mind of everyone and Ebira people around can even get killed for this depending on the gravity and location of the situation, nobody even knows or care to know if that Oyiza claims she is not an Ebira. This is why most Igbos get angry when Aniomas deny them. Nzeogwu's coup was called an Igbo coup and millions of Igbos paid for the coup with their lives. How will you feel if you were an Igbo who lost your family in the war only to see Nzeogwu's son denying his Igboness and attacking Igbos tomorrow?

All these is trash as it doesn't really relate to the issue in focus. Are Ebonyians claiming that Aniomas are Ebonyians? Are the Wawas claiming that Aniomas are Wawas?

Nowenuse:
Personally, I really do not see any reason why people who share a lot in common would choose to be different from each other especially when there are no irreconciliable differences like religion (when the people are a religious people).
Had it been most of we hausa speaking middlebelters were muslims or the Hausas themselves were not an extremely religious people, I wouldn't see anything wrong if we drop our small insignificant and numerous identities for a larger one for the sake of greater unity and influence, inspite of the fact that we and Hausas are very very different from each other by origin, culture and language. Let alone your people and Ebiras who have the same native language and origin

Can't you see you have spoken from both sides your mouth again? Read the two bolded statementscarefully and slowly.
For the third bolded, you are simply fooling yourself. The issue here has nothing to do with this your senseless claim which you have stuck to but about the correct generic name. If a people are in contest with each other over their correct generic name, that should even be an indication that they are not denying each other but trying to set the records straight for the purpose of truth which is the genuine harbinger of peaceful coexistence. Only in your moronic and rotten brain does such amount to rejection or whatever you choose to call it. You are just outrightly silly in the way you reason. So if within your family, one of your relations is trying to change the family name in a way that distorts the family's identity and you question him and insist on the right name, that means you are rejecting him? You are truly daft and dumb. This your hyper consciousness and paranoid tendency about this your Middle Belt solidarity is really driving you mad.

Nowenuse:
We black people sometimes like unnecessary divisions and this is one thing affecting us as a people. Every village wants to become autonomous as an ethnic group of their own.

The actual problem of the black man is his attitude of seeking unity unnecessarily. That is why the rather fraudulent one-Nigeria doctrine was invented and it has become the very reason why the country failed. When we had a more centrifugal arrangement in the form of three Nigerias (i.e. three autonomous regions) and later four going to five six...., things worked fine and there was peace and equity. But once the seekers of unity and nationalism came and dismantled everything, problems started which culminated in a war that became a national tragedy till today. If Nigeria's ugly post Independence history has not taught you that forced unity even among brothers and sisters is dangerous and counterproductive, then I wonder what ever will. Your people are being slaughtered daily by Fulani Herdsmen in the name of ' we are all one' yet you are still spewing this thrash of unity. Are you blind? If everyone remains autonomous, do you think we would have been having these intractible security challenges, corruption, etc? America is more diverse than Nigeeia yet no one talks of unity or One-America. Each person pursues his own personal welfare with the framework of the law. There are Americans of English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish descent but that doesn't make them to start forming some British nationalism groups here and there titled British descendants are one, blah blah blah......

It is only in a failed country you hear of such since people seem to resort to harbor such proclivity to seek consolation and assistance due to failure of government to live up to her responsibilities.
Even the Nigerians who form and join tribal groups in the US do so not for themselves but in pursuit of making impact back at home due to the non-accountability of the government back at home.

Nowenuse:
Binis & Esans stopped the spread of the Nupe/fulani jihadists and defeated them. However, they did not go into Auchi to chase out the jihadists or dismantle the structure these jihadists had put in place. Anybody who claims that is a big fat liar.

So the monarchical system in Auchi presently was imposed by the Uthman Dan Fodio led Jihadists? Else, what exactly are these imaginary structures you so authoritatively talk about?

Nowenuse:
I've had the opportunity to visit rural Etsako and stayed there through my inlaw. I inquired about the culture. There are many northern/hausa cultures ingrained in there. E.g, the oldest man/woman in an Etsako community is called MAGAJI/MAGAJIYA, and they play certain roles. ... Gosh, this is a pure hausa culture.
These cultures and the islamic religion couldn't have been ingrained in Etsako if the Benin warriors had quickly dismantled the presence of the jihadists in Etsako.

So it doesn't ever occur to you that if the Benin warriors had not quickly halted the invasion of Etsako land by the Jihadists as you would have your readers believe, then a truly established Jihadists culture would have, like Illorin, resulted in Emirs in Etsako land rather than monarchs like Ukpilagbe of Ukpilla, Otaru of Auchi, Oba of Agbede, and other native monarchical titles in existence today? Have you ever heard of an Emir anywhere in Etsako? Also, how come the Jihadists had a field day ingraining their culture over Etsako yet the place is not anywhere near 70% moslem dominated let alone higher?

Nowenuse:
No, the whole of Etsako came under jihad, just that the seat of power was in Etsako west, hence the influence was seen to be greater in Etsako west. This is how an islamic emirate/caliphate works. Among many northern/middlebelt Nigerian tribes that came under jihad/islamic influence, it is very common to see more of the islamic influence in the townships/seat of power where the jihadists were based compared to the surrounding areas! .......
This is also seen even among the heavily islamized Hausas themselves. For example, it is very difficult to find an indigenous Hausa christian person or hausa christian community in Sokoto and surrounding parts of Sokoto like Zamfara or northern Kebbi. However, as you go eastwards aways from the seat of the caliphate into Katsina/Zaria/Kano, there are millions of Hausa indigenous christians in the rural areas here. This does not mean that the whole of Hausa land wasn't invaded.
It is very common to drive through a LGA in parts of the north and you find a muslim majority population in that town but as soon as you drive through the villages or smaller towns in that same LGA, you find an overwhelming christian majority even to the extent that you may never find a single mosque.

The question remains this; if Etsako land ever fully came under Jihadist rule, then of what impact was the Benin soldiers' intervention and why is there no single Emirate or even a vestige of an Emirate anywhere in Etsako today? The rest submissions above are invalidated by this poser.

Nowenuse:
This is almost the same thing in my own ethnic group and other ethnic groups of the north/middlebelt who accepted islam by trade/indirect rule. In my hometown which is the capital of my ethnic group, muslims dominate the town center but as soon as you go inwards, christians dominate. Okene which is the capital of Ebira tao is overwhelmingly muslim in population, but most of the other Ebira towns and villages are 50/50 or predominantly christian.
So the fact that islamic influence is not as strong in Etsako central or Etsako east as it is in Etsako west is not a pointer to the fact that only Etsako west was invaded, no! ....Etsako west was just the headquarters.

You speak as if these LGAs (Etsako West, Central and East) were existing when these invasions took place. The vestiges of Jihadist invasion you see in the hinterlands of Etsako were more as a result of residual difussion from Auchi that a settlement by settlement invasion of the entire place. If the Jihadists were so detailed and thorough in their invasion, then how come they left the neighboring Akoko-Edo and Owan univaded? Or did they just fall in love with only Etsako land? And mind you that prior to that time the present boundaries of Etsako land had not been drawn talkless of the invading Jihadists army recognizing it and choosing to limit its invasion within the boundaries. You are just making claims which run against logic while I am just laughing in Swahili.

Nowenuse:
You have a terrible character of saying someone said this or insinuated this when the person never did. You are very manipulative in nature. Can you show me where I made a hasty conclusion about parts of Edo state which I later turned around to confess my ignorance?
If you are talking about the issue of single ethnic group settlements of Akoko edo, I never made a conclusive statement on this. I asked a question about it, just that my question appeared conclusive to you and I understand why. I asked ''aren't these akoko edo towns just normal towns instead of independent ethnic groups?''. It was never a conclusive STATEMENT. It was a question. I have attached a screenshot of my comment below, look at it for yourself.
If someone asks me, ''since you speak Hausa, are you not an ethnic hausa?". I cannot say that this is a conclusive statement. It is still a question no matter how it sounds.

Inverted accusation again. Why must you have to always adjust your claims if you were truthful and honest? You are the manipulative one here. How many of my claims here have I ever adjusted? Giving room for one or two genuine mistakes, your adjustments care still too many to pass for clear conscience.
Why is it that it is only after I counter your claims that you rush back to adjust them? On the issue of single settlement tribes in Akoko-Edo, your question was rhetorical and I guess you know what that means. You even started with "Hmmmm" meaning an expression of passive disagreement. The expression 'hmmm' is a sign of perception of incredulity in the Nigerian application. Mind you that it all started when I said there are at least 15 different tribes in Akoko-Edo. You rushed in an said 'Hmmmm. Are these really tribes? I know of Ososo and Ojirami blah blah blah....Then I had to go further by telling you that Ojirami is not a tribe but that Ososo is a single settlement tribe. You are just being mischevious.

Nowenuse:
I adjusted my claims of ''MANY Etsako people are of Nupe origin'' to ''SOME Etsako people are of Nupe origin'' because of the way the previous phrase can easily be misinterpreted by people like you to mean that I am insinuating that ''MAJORITY of Etsako people are of Nupe origin, when this is not what I mean.

Can't the word "some" also refer to majority? You think you can play on semantics to cover your falsehood?
If someone says, 'in a class of 20 students, some of them offer Geography.....' it could mean those who offer the subject are 18 - which is a majority. It could as well mean only five offer it - which is a minority. "Some simply means "not all". It is indeterminate and can't therefore be used to mean only minority. Didn't you offer GST in 100 level?
So cut this crap and accept that you lied and quickly adjusted your lie to something else which still didn't cut it.

Nowenuse:
For instance, if I say ''MANY yorubas have tribal marks'' and ''SOME yorubas have tribal marks''. I could be basically saying the same thing.... MANY here means (a significant number and not a majority). MANY is indefinite, depending on how you choose to interprete it. I did not edit the statement because I was wrong, no. I edited it because I know the statememt can easily be misconstrued.[/b]
Same thing with "some" which could mean many as I have explained.
[quote author=Nowenuse post=81581055]So, can you show me which hasty conclusions I made about parts of Edo state which I turned around to confess due to my ignorance?

Below is a screenshot also from this same thread when I was telling someone of Etsako extraction how much the AFEMAI tag doesn't work when he claimed it is an ethnic group. And funny enough, you have accused me of being troublesome in this regard. Lol

What you discussed with that guy is not my headache. That is between you and him. I have already showed you the claims you adjusted dubiously.

Nowenuse:
There is nothing wrong with you a non native of Plateau arguing with me on issues of Plateau state or environs, as long as you have solid facts to back up your arguments.

The assertions of the natives of a place about their place and people a lot of times turn out to be false or heavily exaggerated because of a nationalistic ego.

I have seen people from Plateau and Southern Kaduna insinuate that their people are all christians and that every muslim in their region is a Hausa fulani settler. This is exaggerated. It comes from a nationalistic ego to preserve the christian identity of their people.
Outsiders who know nothing can easily believe this, afterall the image and perception of these places are christian. However, this is not true. It is exaggerated. MANY ( ) Plateau and Southern Kaduna indigenes from various tribes are actually muslims, just that they are a minority.

I have seen several Hausas swear to me that there are no predominantly indigenous christian communities in Hausa land. Are you saying that because I am not a native Hausa, then I should swallow this kind of lie hook line and sinker unchallenged? When I know that this is very very false? I easily confront these lying Hausas with hard facts because I have them.

People do not always say the truth about their homelands, so if you have facts to counter these people, you shouldn't keep quiet for any reason and let them misinform the public. I am very open to anyone who wants to challenge my assertions about my own village as long as they have facts and serious points. That's it.

Let us take you as a case study.
As a non native of the Edo North areas you claim to know deeply more than the natives, you have made very many spurious and bogus claims which you only run back to adjust when punctured, and even your adjustments don't even really cover up your tracks. Your adjustment from "many Afemais" to "some Afemais" among many others are apt here. You even claimed that Ojirami is a tribe whereas it is not. You never knew there are one settlement tribes in existence until you were told by a native. Not even in your wildest imagination would you have thought of such before now. You also never knew that a tribe could exist in settlements which are geographically very close but however not continuous to one another. It took a native bringing it to your knowledge here despite you having practically lived for many years in the state where all such phenomena exist and even having friends from the LGA in question.
Then the worst of all, the very source you referenced to substantiate your assumption about a fact you have been arguing against ended up proving your opponent right to your embarrassment.
In all, you just wasted time, energy and data running from pillar to post and ending up scoring cheap own goals.
So you can't really know a place more than the native as he has parents who from childhood lecture him about certain norms, history and values of the place while your own parents, being non-natives, would not have such knowledge to lecture you with about the place. You can only rely on mere hearsay. Moreover the native attends local meetings and participates in traditional events which ground his knowledge about the place unlike you the non-native who would not participate in such for obvious reasons.

Deadlytruth:
The premise under which you asserted that many Etsako people are of Nupe origin made it clear that you meant that Etsakos are Nupes. A Yoruba moniker claimed that the bearing of Yoruba names by Edos translates to them being Yorubas. I then asked him if the bearing of Nupe names by certain individuals in Edo also makes them Nupes. This was the premise of the argument, and you rushed in to claim that many Afemais are Nupes. Judged against the background premise, you simply were saying that the bearing of Nupe names by Afemais means they are Nupes. Simple. If however we are to accept your new claim of not insinuating such, then we can safely conclude that your position was irrelevant to the issue in focus hence you were an intruder with ulterior motive. Had it been the premise was that the bearing of Yoruba names in Edo makes many or some Edos Yorubas, then your adjusted claim above could be said to be related to the topic. In essence you jumped into an issue you didn't even understand in the first instance.



You love citing instances which are unrelated to topics under discussion. How exactly are all these Nupe vs Fulanis in Ilorin issue of any relevance to the question of borrowed names amounting to blood links?
Go to an Igbo forum tell them that Onitsha's are of Benin origin and see if you will come out the same as you went in. Only their monarchical line is of Benin origin and that can't be used as a basis for the sweeping generalization that Onitsha people are of Bini origin. If so, why is their local language Igbo and not Bini? Itsekiris don't have Bini origin. They themselves have made it clear that they are migrants from Yorubaland who, on arrival at their present location, accepted to be ruled by a Bini prince called Ginuwa whose dynasty subsists till today. They generally don't identify themselves as Bini in origin but confess to heavy Bini influence on their culture on account of the Bini dynasty ruling over them. If they were actually of Bini origin, then the Urhobos who claim same ancestry with Binis wouldn't have had any problem having the Itsekiris' monarch being given traditional authority over the entire Warri. You are hardly ever logical in your wild and bogus claims.



Assuming without conceding that the Nupe warriors who came to Etsako didn't return, then does that now automatically translate to 'many' Etsakos being of Nupe origin?
Nupes invaded nearly everywhere in today's Edo North yet in Akoko-Edo and Owan the vestiges of Nupe culture are almost insignificant. I guess the Nupes who invaded Akoko-Edo and Owan went back after their mission while those who invaded Etsako stayed behind? Can't you see that your stories are not adding up? Can you?
And the fact that in some posts you claim it was Nupes who conquered Etsako while in others you claim the Hausafulani Jihadists did makes it clear that you don't even know what you are saying.
To set the facts straight, Nupes only came to buy slaves from the willing ethnic groups long after the Usman Dan Fodio led Jihadists had come and gone.
I repeat; you are an ignoramus!

I have discovered that you have diarrhea of the hands on keyboard and you just love arguments for the sake of arguing. You are also an irredemable and shameless liar, who still hold on to your wrong facts no matter how much you are exposed.
I concluded on this just today when I read all through that thread on the origin of Ibillo community. So I don't think I would be wasting my time on you any much longer.

If you cannot comprehend the fact that right from history till now, conquerors usually leave their genetic imprint on their conquered population especially when they try to integrate their conquered population ethnically, linguistically or religiously, then I have to give up on you!

If you cannot comprehend my examples from all over Nigeria on how much the influence of the Islamic conquest is usually strongest at the areas where the seat of the caliphate/Emirate is located, then I give up on you!
Ancient native Hausa traditions and religions are still practiced in Kano/ Zaria/Katsina till date, but yet such is non existent in Sokoto (the seat of the caliphate).
If you cannot understand how the people from the surrounding areas of Etsako west show less islamic influence compared to the people of Etsako west where the seat of jihadists were, then you are irredeemable.

What if I show you links where the Kings (custodians of the cultures) of Onitsha and Itsekiri proudly confirm their Benin origins? Wouldn't that make you such an idiott?

If the fact that the royal lineages of a people from centuries back have an ancestry X and you claim it is wrong for someone to say certain people from that area have ancestry X, then you have a problem.

Deadlytruth:
Your ulterior motive is getting more evidenced. So you didn't see the line where Adeiza Paul himself said as follows: be it Ebira, Etuno, Egbura, etc... we are all Ohiku (Oshuku) descendants? It is a pity you have chosen to be this dishonest just in pursuit of braggadocio even in the face of hard facts from your own referenced source.

I am not in doubt that you saw the image below in your search results and on opening it, you saw Adeiza Paul, an Egira man, making the assertion that appears on the search results but for shame of having to eat your words you have chosen to keep hiding behind a finger. What a shame! The image below makes nonsense of all your argument here. Thank God I wasn't the one who wrote it but one among those for whom you are crying more than the bereaved. These people themselves know the truth that the genuine generic name is Oshuku/Ohiku and when faced with the fact the honest ones succumb. But here is an interloper following the corpse right into the grave. Wonders shall never really end.

Manipulative psychopath. Can you show me where I ever argued that Ebira speaking tribes aren't from one ancestor Oshuku?
What I argued about is you creating and claiming a new Oshuku ethnic group which is synonymous to madness if you ask me.

All Nupe speaking tribes, Bassa, Dibo, Ganagana, Kakanda, Kupa & Nupe know that they come from one ancestor TSOEDE, then tomorrow a Bassa man will wake up to claim that the mighty Nupe tribe are originally 'Tsoede ethnic group' just to avoid their own identity being swallowed up by Nupe identity.

It's also akin to Austrians telling Germans to change their ethnic identity to the name of their common ancient Germanic ancestor. You need to see a doctor

Deadlytruth:
Again, I didn't really expect you to do a honest and open minded search as your predetermined mindset is obvious. If not, why would you limit yourself to Nairaland posts when a lot is on Facebook and websites opened by nearly every tribe and ethnic groups to explain and assert their identities are all over cyber space? You fool no one.
Check yourself very well. The paranoia is with you. What I have discovered is that you are suffering from anti Middle Belt paranoia. Of course, based on your own claim of having led a lot of Middle Belt groups in administrative capacity, your commitment to the Middle Belt course is not in doubt hence you feel threatened by any perceived attack on any fellow Middle Belt ethnicity. But your excessive and toxic suspicion that others from the Core North or South are trying to unravel the Middle Belt unity and solidarity is really more of imagination than reality.


You couldn't have ever been in my shoes as I am only out to put records straight and I can beat my chest here that of all the engagements I have had on NL I always stick to facts and logic, and those who can't stand it resort to calling me names. I actually enjoy it because once people demonize you without provocation, then your submissions are hitting hard somewhere in their hearts deliberately ladden with falsehoods.


Per the furst bolded, that is a Freudian slip evidence of the fact that you don't really read thoroughly hence just jump into discussions you really don't understand hence make irrelevant contributions just to play the devil's advocate.
The second bolded is an additional evidence of this lack of understanding before jumping in issues. So you didn't see it there that I only joined Adeiza Paul in so assuming (but without conceding) just to point his attention to a self contradiction of his? Chai!



Just take a look at the two bolded statements coming from you right in the same comment. Aren't I vindicated for my insistence that you are confused? You commend someone's knowledge about a thing in one line, and in another neighboring line you threaten to view as poor the person's knowledge about the same thing.
Am I seeing someone who claimed to have attended UNIBEN but didn't offer Philosophy and Logic as part of his course content?
Well I don't really need your commendation. It is all a poisoned chalice as your self contradiction above proves. If your acknowledgement above were heartfelt, then you would have been polite in disagreeing with me and respectfully stating your opinion and then asking for further clarification. But your use of gutter language in your very first response to me put your across as self opinionated but actually empty.


You are the one sounding childish and inconsistent. With the bolded above you yourself have subconsciously admitted the difference between Ebiras and Etunos. According to you...'If Ebiras call you annavi......' If Etunos are Ebiras as you would die arguing, then why didn't you frame the poser as follows...'If Ebiras call you Ebiras annavi......'. See how truth speaks for itself even in the mouths of falsehood peddlers? Who then are the Ebiras and who are the 'you' here? To help your ignorance again, a person doesn't call his own same of the same any derogatory name as it would mean that he himself is exactly whatever that derogatory name connotes.


All you have spewed above actually help to advance my argument against yours. You know why and how?
If Oyo people experience culture shock in Ondo, then it means Oyos are not Ondos. Likewise, if Anambra people experience shock in Ebonyi, then it means Anambrarians are not Ebonyians and vice versa. Similarly Ebiras experience culture shock in Etuno, then it follows that Etunos are not Ebiras and vice versa.
Can an Anambra man experience culture shock in Anambra? Can a WAWA man experience culture shock in a WAWA community? Can an Nsukka man experience culture shock in Nsukka? Would Etunos have been experiencing culture shock in Ebiraland if they were Ebiras? I hope you yourself can see how you butressed my argument with your sited instances.
Isn't it funny that of the nearly six factors I mentioned it is only the culture shock issue you chose to respond to and which you still did so badly that you ended up scoring an own goal? What do you have to say about my mention of the fact that Etuno resident Ebiras don't live interspersed among the natives but aggregate themselves in their separate exclusive locations, form Ebira cultural unions because they know they are not in Ebiraland, celebrate their own festivals in isolation, etc? You can never really respond to these ones. They are too unassailable!

I do not have an extremely insecure mindset like you which makes me overprotective of my people's autonomy to a toxic level as yours, to the extent that I tell outright and obvious shameless lies.

As a pro middlebelter, I am strongly anti-arewa, but I remember saying it here that even my father and grandfather still believe in Arewa. I am not ashamed of that nor do I have to lie about it. I am not like you who tell obvious shameless lies to buttress your ego.

Going through that Ibillo thread, I saw a video AdeizaPaul posted on how an Igarra traditional leader was hoping that all Ebira speaking people including his own Etuno people unite as one for the common good of Ebira land, yet you came out to rubbish this clear and revealing video as one man's opinion.

The yorubas on that thread like macof, scholes0 & 9jakool showed you clear evidences of ingrained yoruba influences in Akoko-edo, but yet you shamelesly downplayed them to the extent that you downplayed the opinions of 2 prominent Akoko edo intelligenstia who claimed that they were of Yoruba origin citing them as scarce isolated cases of individual opinions. Now, the same you is giving every reason why the actions of a single person Col Onuka should be used to judge one entire tribe. You are worse than a venomous snake!

On that thread, you also claimed that Akoko edo people stopped giving their children yoruba names immediately as soon as you guys left the yoruba dominated western region. Gosh! Almost all my Akoko edo friends, course mates and hostel mates in Uniben had yoruba names and all of these guys were born in the 90's just like me. One of them confessed to me that he has a yoruba name but chose to stop using it cos he saw no need for this. 3 of them in my hostel, 2 from Ososo and 1 from Igarra spoke yoruba as their main language among themselves. The only thing I observed is that some Akoko edo people are now fighting the Yoruba influence on themselves. My coursemate whose name was Adebayo Owolabi from Akoko edo always announces to everyone how he is not a yoruba man

See, fighting for a course doesn't mean you should go about spewing lies and hatred for everyone who has a contrary opinion as yours, it will only destroy you. We all have weaknesses and there is nothing wrong with us admitting our weaknesses.
You talked about being able to assert that middlebelters are of Hausa/fulani origin just because I talked about Etsakos of Nupe origin. I bet you thought that this will irk me , but hell no, it didn't, rather I agreed that truly, some middlebelters are of Hausa fulani origins. I'm sure anyone reading through this thread can see who the extremely insecured and paranoid individual is.
As much as I dislike Hausa fulanis and their expansionist agendas and wish to rid my people and region of every Hausa fulani influence, I would not go as low as attacking everyone with lies.

If you cannot understand that people of various sub-ethnic groups ridicule each other and even experience culture shock when visiting each other's homelands, yet they remain of the same ethnic nation, then I give up on you.
You have a big problem when you generalize that Ebiras (Taos, Kotos, Mozums & Opandas) are very different from you Etunos and they experience culture shock in Igarra forgetting that even among the Taos, Kotos, Mozums & Opandas, they have their differences. An Opanda man visiting a Tao village and he sees people running all of a sudden inside their houses because of a masquerade will be culture shocked, because his own Opanda people have very limited fetish practices since the great influence of islam by jihad. You need help.