₦airaland Forum

TayserMahri:
Im disagreeing with you on a lot of things ofcourse. I dont think I have to state those again. From the specific origins of MRAPs vs APCs to how they fulfill their roles. APCs have a different way of dealing with mines (tough armor) vs MRAPs use the V-shaped hull to achieve the same through deflection. Its not even about doctrine but the theatre. APCs are the conventional army transports while MRAPs are the latter day high mobility multipurpose vehicles.. etc.

OK let's do a little exercise,

Why don't you classify the following vehicles and state your reasons why(ignore the turrets for now) :

TayserMahri:
Im disagreeing with you on a lot of things ofcourse. I dont think I have to state those again. From the specific origins of MRAPs vs APCs to how they fulfill their roles. APCs have a different way of dealing with mines (tough armor) vs MRAPs use the V-shaped hull to achieve the same through deflection. Its not even about doctrine but the theatre. APCs are the conventional army transports while MRAPs are the latter day high mobility multipurpose vehicles.. etc.

What if I told you that every one of these APCs/IFVs have a V shaped hull

jln115:
OK let's do a little exercise,

Why don't you classify the following vehicles and state your reasons why(ignore the turrets for now) :

Pic 1 is a MRAP, obviously. The high ground clearance and V-shaped hull. The rest are either APCs (pic 2) or IFVs depending on the guns.

jln115:
What if I told you that every one of these APCs/IFVs have a V shaped hull

Proof? For the Bumerang you dont know (for now). Any evidence for Mowag Piranha V? the Badger?? The last one

All APCs I know use a subframe technique to distribute torque and reduce impact to crew above, besides tough amor. They dont use V-shaped hulls, its not even practical, unless you're talking of hybrids like the Indian Aditya MPV, which is basically a MRAP (mis)used as an APC. Even the US Havoc MPC (marine Apc) discarded the V-shaped hull for the subframe.

Saudi Arabia has invited Denel with its RG-31 to be part of trials for a new 4x4 contract.

Here we go again. Same old shit but just a different day.

Abeg una no dey tire for this APC/MRAP talk?

TayserMahri:
Pic 1 is a MRAP, obviously. The high ground clearance and V-shaped hull. The rest are either APCs (pic 2) or IFVs depending on the guns.

1. V shaped hull

2. Ratel... V shaped hull.....thus according to your definition how can it be an apc?

3. Rg 41.....V shaped hull..... thus according to your definition how can it be an apc?

4. Badger..... Only one with a flat bottom hull

TayserMahri:
Proof? For the Bumerang you dont know (for now). Any evidence for Mowag Piranha V? the Badger?? The last one

All APCs I know use a subframe technique to distribute torque and reduce impact to crew above, besides tough amor. They dont use V-shaped hulls, its not even practical, unless you're talking of hybrids like the Indian Aditya MPV, which is basically a MRAP (mis)used as an APC. Even the US Havoc MPC (marine Apc) discarded the V-shaped hull for the subframe.

Bumerang: Vehicle has a V-shaped hull that deflects mine blasts away.

http://www.military-today.com/apc/bumerang.htm

Piranha V: Vehicle has a double floor with a V-shaped hull and is well protected against landmines and IED blasts.

http://www.military-today.com/apc/mowag_piranha_v.htm

The last one is not a Badger it's the Patria amv which differs to the Badger since it has a V shaped hull vs the Badger with a flat floor hull.... Interestingly enough Denel developed the flat floor hull to have even better anti mine capability than a traditional V shaped hull.

NA shelling Boko Haram positions.

NAF Puma door gunner

NA. North East deployment

NA Otomelara Palmaria 155mm artillery

Operation Deep Punch. NA

NAF C-130 crew review flight plans before takeoff

Badass!

shadowprimezero:
Operation Deep Punch. NA

this picture sweet me die

Like ...spray at these m'fuckers

shadowprimezero:
NAF Puma door gunner

Love that image! Note the Tigerstripe Camo.

SuperSixSeven:
Love that image! Note the Tigerstripe Camo.

Yeah. Haven't seen that scheme since the civil war.

Mr shadowprimezero you've been reposting pix that has filled the last 1000 pages

South-Africa sold very poor quality MRAPs to Nigeria.

Look at the state of the Reva MRAPs we purchased in 2015, brand new.

.

kabe1:
South-Africa sold very poor quality MRAPs to Nigeria.

Look at the state of the Reva MRAPs we purchased in 2015, brand new.

That's not true. This is a testament to the failed procurement strategy of the Nigerian Army. We purchased and acquired a large amount of different classes of MRAP's without any consideration to equipping the Nigerian Army Engineering Corps on maintainance and repair.
Bigfoot MRAP
Caiman MRAP
Navistaar MRAP
Streit Typhoon MRAP
Reva MRAP
ARA 1 MRAP
ARA 2 MRAP
And counting.....

The solution lies in standardisation which we lack, thereby making things difficult for the engineering corps even though they're trying their best at the Special Vehicles Plant in Bauchi.

Hopefully, with an ever improving local defence industry, we're starting to produce our own armored vehicles which would really help with maintenance and standardisation

NAF armed AW-109 E in action

shadowprimezero:
That's not true. This is a testament to the failed procurement strategy of the Nigerian Army. We purchased and acquired a large amount of different classes of MRAP's without any consideration to equipping the Nigerian Army Engineering Corps on maintainance and repair.
Bigfoot MRAP
Caiman MRAP
Navistaar MRAP
Streit Typhoon MRAP
Reva MRAP
ARA 1 MRAP
ARA 2 MRAP
And counting.....

The solution lies in standardisation which we lack, thereby making things difficult for the engineering corps even though they're trying their best at the Special Vehicles Plant in Bauchi.

Hopefully, with an ever improving local defence industry, we're starting to produce our own armored vehicles which would really help with maintenance and standardisation

First of all, we did not buy the Caiman and Navistar, they were donated to Nigeria as foreign aid from the US.

South-Africa sold Nigeria low quality MRAPs, this is a fact.

The Reva MRAP was bought for a particular Nigerian military unity to perform a special type of operation. It was used as was intended also.

On the 72 MSF was use the Reva MRAP in Nigeria. The unit was later transformed to the AFSF unit. The arms used by the 72 MSF was purchased by the NSA who continues to fund it's successor the AFSF unit. In addition to this purchase, the NSA made sure to purchase ambulances and mechanics.

This not an army funded unit, but an NSA funded unit.

45 units were purchased including ambulance and recovery vehicles, yet we can see that the vehicles have been cannibalized and could not stand the test of time.

shadowprimezero:
That's not true. This is a testament to the failed procurement strategy of the Nigerian Army. We purchased and acquired a large amount of different classes of MRAP's without any consideration to equipping the Nigerian Army Engineering Corps on maintainance and repair.
Bigfoot MRAP
Caiman MRAP

If it was an army funded unit, I would have agreed with you. If they were bought second hand, I probably would have agreed with you. If mechanics were also not paid for perhaps I might have agreed with you also.

kabe1:
First of all, we did not buy the Caiman and Navistar, they were donated to Nigeria as foreign aid from the US.

South-Africa sold Nigeria low quality MRAPs, this is a fact.

The Reva MRAP was bought for a particular Nigerian military unity to perform a special type of operation. It was used as was intended also.

On the 72 MSF was use the Reva MRAP in Nigeria. The unit was later transformed to the AFSF unit. The arms used by the 72 MSF was purchased by the NSA who continues to fund it's successor the AFSF unit. In addition to this purchase, the NSA made sure to purchase ambulances and mechanics.

This not an army funded unit, but an NSA funded unit.

45 units were purchased including ambulance and recovery vehicles, yet we can see that the vehicles have been cannibalized and could not stand the test of time.

Firstly on the source of the Navistaar and Caimans, I said Nigeria purchased and ACQUIRED, but that's irrelevant to the point I'm making.

Secondly, you didn't even attempt to offer a counter argument to any of the points I raised. The reason we've cannibalized REVA's for spare parts is due to our flawed procurement strategy. This is the same we we have cannibalized/derelict T-72's, Bigfoot MRAP's and Caimans. We buy in a rush and without thinking. The US uses only 3 MRAP classes; Caiman, Maxx-pro and Couger. Turkey uses only 1; The Kipri Mrap etc.

When our armored vehicles inevitably get damaged in combat, it's not unusual to see even basic ballistics glass not replaced, talk less of more complicated systems. The Engineering Corps simply doesn't have the spare parts for each of the many Vehicles we operate.

shadowprimezero:
Firstly on the source of the Navistaar and Caimans, I said Nigeria purchased and ACQUIRED, but that's irrelevant to the point I'm making.

Secondly, you didn't even attempt to offer a counter argument to any of the points I raised. The reason we've cannibalized REVA's for spare parts is due to our flawed procurement strategy. This is the same we we have cannibalized/derelict T-72's, Bigfoot MRAP's and Caimans. We buy in a rush and without thinking. The US uses only 3 MRAP classes; Caiman, Maxx-pro and Couger. Turkey uses only 1; The Kipri Mrap etc.

When our armored vehicles inevitably get damaged in combat, it's not unusual to see even basic ballistics glass not replaced, talk less of more complicated systems. The Engineering Corps simply doesn't have the spare parts for each of the many Vehicles we operate.

My reply to you was very clear.

You cannot treat the Reva purchase as the same as the rest of the Nigerian army weapon procurement process.

The Reva was not bought by the Nigerian army.

The unit that use the Reva is a stand alone unit, which is funded, trained and equipped by the Office of the National Security Adviser.

Although the men are from the Nigerian army, Navy and Air Force, they are not funded by the army.

It's a different agency.

I also told you maintenance contracts were signed with the manufacturer. Infact a South-African mechanic was even killed in Nigeria.

kabe1:
My reply to you was very clear.

You cannot treat the Reva purchase as the same as the rest of the Nigerian army weapon procurement process.

The Reva was not bought by the Nigerian army.

The unit that use the Reva is a stand alone unit, which is funded, trained and equipped by the Office of the National Security Adviser.

Although the men are from the Nigerian army, Navy and Air Force, they are not funded by the army.

It's a different agency.

I also told you maintenance contracts were signed with the manufacturer. Infact a South-African mechanic was even killed in Nigeria.

A South African mechanic was never killed in Nigeria. Those were two STTEP mercenaries that were killed in a blue on blue incident. An NA T-72 mistook them for BH from a distance and shot their REVA but that's beside the point. I'm not debating you on which agency or ministry purchased what, all I'm saying is that as a country, we lack an overall comprehensive procurement strategy. That's why we have so many derilict vehicles ASIDES from the REVA. It's not a debate on quality but on how well we can maintain so many different types of armored vehicles we have and all the associated logistical issues that entails.

Blue on blue incident involving an NA T-72 and a Reva Mrap. The T-72 fired on the vehicle form a distance and due to a communications gap, mistook it for a BH vehicle. Two STTEP mercs KIA and a few NA soldiers injured. 2015

kabe1:
South-Africa sold very poor quality MRAPs to Nigeria.

Look at the state of the Reva MRAPs we purchased in 2015, brand new.

No...its haphazard procurement that's bearing fruit.

kabe1:
First of all, we did not buy the Caiman and Navistar, they were donated to Nigeria as foreign aid from the US.

South-Africa sold Nigeria low quality MRAPs, this is a fact.

The Reva MRAP was bought for a particular Nigerian military unity to perform a special type of operation. It was used as was intended also.

On the 72 MSF was use the Reva MRAP in Nigeria. The unit was later transformed to the AFSF unit. The arms used by the 72 MSF was purchased by the NSA who continues to fund it's successor the AFSF unit.
In addition to this purchase, the NSA made sure to purchase ambulances and mechanics.

This not an army funded unit, but an NSA funded unit.

45 units were purchased including ambulance and recovery vehicles, yet we can see that the vehicles have been cannibalized and could not stand the test of time.

Lies on both counts!

We did not get any freaking mechanics!