₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Finallydead post=85336991]

I think Daejoyoung and ihedinobi3 would agree that the substitution on the cross was not exclusive of our part to follow the Lord's example he left in His earthly life(1Pet 2:21) and its an official contract every believer signs whether they keep to it or not. If they don't of course, there are well meted consequences like satanic torments(1Cor5) etc. In other words faith in Christ always includes corresponding actions on the believers part of taking Christ's place as He took ours. And this substitution was not about appeasing God's wrath by mere pardon, while keeping us in sin nature but by making a pathway for dealing with sin nature in humanity, which is realized at the end of this path, hence appeasing God's wrath. If so, then you both have no disagreement on substitution.

ln what sense does it make a pathway in dealing with sin nature? l read all these as a figure of speech by paul to say that we are dead to sin and now alive with christ to live righteously. lt is thesame as saying we are born again.
You wrote that the death of jesus was not human sacrifice to appease God's wrath, unfortunately many Christians explain it that way. They believe God was angry with us and was looking for holy blood in order to forgive us our sins. And so jesus had no sin and took our place on the cross to appease God, l see why they interprete it this way, but it sends the wrong signals and idea if you don't painstakingly clarify, and then this takes away the focus of the message of the cross, if you know what l mean.

Finallydead:
I think Daejoyoung and ihedinobi3 would agree that the substitution on the cross was not exclusive of our part to follow the Lord's example he left in His earthly life(1Pet 2:21) and its an official contract every believer signs whether they keep to it or not. If they don't of course, there are well meted consequences like satanic torments(1Cor5) etc. In other words faith in Christ always includes corresponding actions on the believers part of taking Christ's place as He took ours. And this substitution was not about appeasing God's wrath by mere pardon, while keeping us in sin nature but by making a pathway for dealing with sin nature in humanity, which is realized at the end of this path, hence appeasing God's wrath. If so, then you both have no disagreement on substitution.
Daejoyoung here is a picture showing how you could quote people without typing ...You said.. Just highlight whatever you wish to and click the 'message' button just before the first smiley/emoji.
[img][/img]

I also think its dangerous for you to cherrypick what scriptures to believe and what not to. Jesus Christ of the old testament is the same with
Jesus Christ of the new. Its just that He had a less effective covenant in the old that many times veiled His truest revelation of Himself. If you have any issues understanding God's acts in the old testament, its safe to just see it as your inability to see His true intention. The old testament is all the early church had for validating doctrine and from Paul(2Tim3:15-17) and Peter( 2Pet1:19-21) you should never cherrypick old testament scripture but accept it all as authoritative, nevertheless requiring the Holy Spirit to give it perspective.

Hello.

For what good it might do, I must warn you that I much prefer not to be associated with teachings that I have not expressly produced myself. I consider it a very insidious thing to attribute things to anyone when they have not themselves claimed those things, and even worse when they have actually opposed them.

To be clear, I only teach that believing in Jesus Christ saves you. If you believe in Him, and you continue to believe in Him until you die or He returns - whichever happens first -, you are saved, irrespective of how you live your life. This is what I see in the Bible. Behavior does not have anything to do directly with salvation.

If you behave poorly as a Christian, then God will discipline you. If you heed the discipline and confess your sin, you will be forgiven and you can have fellowship with the Lord and with the rest of the Church restored. Your salvation is not in question even then.

If you ignore the discipline, it will get worse. If you eventually quit believing because you dislike the discipline, then you are no longer a Christian and the Lord will stop disciplining you and you can carry on with your sin as you please. If you die in apostasy, you will go to Torments, and you will end up in the Lake of Fire with other unbelievers after the Judgment of the Great White Throne.

If you ignore the discipline but continue to believe, eventually the Lord will kill you with the discipline so that you will still be saved although you will lose much reward as a result of your bad witness on earth, since the time that you spend revelling in sin is time lost for spiritual growth and production, which are the things that the Lord rewards with eternal rewards.

This is what I see in the Bible. It is what I teach and nothing else. You and anyone else may teach whatever else you prefer. You will answer to the Lord for it, just as I will for what I teach too. But if you misrepresent what I teach, then you will have worse to answer for than just what you teach.

To be clear, I only teach that believing in Jesus Christ saves you. If you believe in Him, and you continue to believe in Him until you die or He returns - whichever happens first -, you are saved, irrespective of how you live your life. This is what I see in the Bible. Behavior does not have anything to do directly with salvation.If you behave poorly as a Christian, then God will discipline you. If you heed the discipline and confess your sin, you will be forgiven and you can have fellowship with the Lord and with the rest of the Church restored. Your salvation is not in question even then.If you ignore the discipline, it will get worse. If you eventually quit believing because you dislike the discipline, then you are no longer a Christian and the Lord will stop disciplining youand you can carry on with your sin as you please. If you die in apostasy, you will go to Torments, and you will end up in the Lake of Fire with other unbelievers after the Judgment of the Great White Throne.If you ignore the discipline but continue to believe, eventually the Lord will kill you with thediscipline so that you will still be saved although you will lose much reward as a result of your bad witness on earth, since the time that you spend revelling in sin is time lost for spiritual growth and production, which are the things that the Lord rewards with eternal rewards.

All this above only covers this statement of mine

its an official contract every believer signs whether they keep to it or not. If they don't of course, there are well meted consequences like satanic torments(1Cor5) etc.

If a believer dies without this redeeming experience but still in faith, he will pass into heaven but this does not change the fact that God's appeasement is in the power and life force of the Lord released on the cross, dealing with sin nature in us, not just a mere pardon without an actual experience of this power. This should be the hope of every believer, to experience this redeeming power, resulting in us following Christ's example.(1Jn3:2-3, Eph1:18-20).

This is what I see in the Bible. It is what I teach and nothing else. You and anyone else may teach whatever else you prefer. You will answerto the Lord for it, just as I will for what I teach too. But if you misrepresent what I teach, then you will have worse to answer for than just what you teach.

Easy o. Ihedinobi3 and threat weapons. Things never got to this. I wonder if I ever presented or misrepresented your view??

Finallydead:
Has anyone ever told you, you write a lot. All this above only covers this statement of mine

its an official contract every believer signs whether they keep to it or not. If they don't of course, there are well meted consequences like satanic torments(1Cor5) etc.

If a believer dies without this redeeming experience but still in faith, he will pass into heaven but this does not change the fact that God's appeasement is in the power and life force of the Lord released on the cross, dealing with sin nature in us, not just a mere pardon without an actual experience of this power. This should be the hope of every believer, to experience this redeeming power, resulting in us following Christ's example.
(1Jn3:2-3, Eph1:18-20).

Easy o. Ihedinobi3 and threat weapons. Things never got to this. I wonder if I ever presented or misrepresented your view??

They did, friend, they did get to "this." I do not accept anything that Daejoyoung teaches as true, and I do not want to be associated with it in any way. He and I do not agree on the Cross or on how we are saved, so please do not make it seem that we do. If you agree with him, feel free to do so. I am not stopping you, but don't put me in the same place as him or you, if what you teach is different than I have explained at length.

As for the sin nature, it is only dealt with finally in the Resurrection. Until we are resurrected, we are to resist its influence while we are still in this mortal flesh. It is in our flesh, after all. The sin nature is not done away with by believing in the Lord Jesus and His Sacrifice for us. Our faith only secures for us a promise of being freed from it through a Resurrection like that of the Lord Jesus. If we hold on to that faith until the end of our lives here on Earth or until the Lord returns, whichever happens first, then we will be delivered from this sinful flesh and given a new body that has no sin in it, a body like that which our Lord currently has.

So, while I do believe that the Cross of Jesus secured deliverance from the sin nature for us, I don't believe that we will experience that deliverance until the Resurrection, so I do not teach that. If you teach it, please do not associate me with such a teaching.

Hi Daejoyoung

First thank you for lessons on how to quote, still not just working out for me, l end up quoting the whole thing

O. I see. Just highlight the bits you want and insert them in the middle of the [quote xx...[/quote]like the xx, by clicking the quote button after highlighting any desired text.

ln what sense does it make a pathway in dealing with sin nature? l read all these as a figure of speech by paul to say that we are dead to sin and now alive with...

O no. Paul's not using figures of speech. We are actually supposed to experience this deadness to sin and life in Christ by following Christ's example, of course, granted only if we already have the earnest/foretaste that faith brought to us. So the unbeliever cannot have that hope by following Christs example, it will only be dead works for such. The gospel is simple. If you really have faith that God transformed Jesus by a certain power of resurrection from flesh and blood(Adamic species) to a new creation(resurrected Christ) because of His consistent obedience(in the mode of self-denial) all through His life up to the point of ultimate obedience of death on the cross, then follow the same example and you will see that power transform you after Christ's resurrected image(Php 2:5-13, Mt16:24, 1Pet2:21). Such new creations after Christ have fully appeased God's wrath against sin by taking advantage of and applying to their lives Jesus' pattern sacrifice. Of course everyone will reach different points in this journey but as long as one keeps his faith, he need not fear hell, but misses the great privilege/rewards in the gospel if he fails to go far enough in the journey. Don't misunderstand me either. I never said Christ's sacrifice is not God's appeasement but according to the model I've presented above, this pattern sacrifice must be realistically applied to us to appease God. Our faith at conversion already gave us a tiny bit of this experience but we are called to follow the model for the full dividends. (Php2:5-13.)

...testament character. Tell me what l have to understand by these actions:
1) He commands the stoning of a man to deathfor gathering food on the sabbath.
2) He tells the Israelites to kill every young man from the canaanites as well as the women and take only virgin girls for themselves.
3)He commands the Israelites to kill not only amalekite men( for the crimes of their forefathers) but also women, infant, horses, etc.
4) On instructions for priests, he commands that their promiscuous daughters should be burnt alive.

Here's the thing. You may never be able to satisfy all these inquiries but understand that there's no lie in the old testament. As I said before the nature of that covenant made a lot look different than what it really meant.
On each of these, you should see that the OT was a pattern of the NT, so most of those things that happened were like symbolisms for us to take a cue from their decoded NT parallels. So its the Spirit of the message not the letter that we learn from. Remember that God couldn't change the nature of these OT guys, so in a certain sense, killing them was something God could easily do to pass us a message. For instance let's take your no.4 point. The priests promiscuous daughters actually represent our wanton souls/flesh after being called into God's service and priesthood. And setting them on fire actually speaks of putting them to death by the baptismal fire of God, which is God's only solution to our wayward souls today. Harsh, you say, but from an eternal point of view, there's more to gain than the life lost. An example that scares the hell out of hardened unchangeable sinners that might just get them to cooperate. Also a parabolic code for us today to find Gods solution to such problem when its discovered. And not to mention, though she dies in her sin, she still ends up in Abraham's bosom because the atonement system covers her. So there is an explanation for each question you may raise but the fact that we don't immediately get it should not make us demean any portion of the Holy Writ.

Finallydead:
O. I see. Just highlight the bits you want and insert them in the middle of the like the Bleep, by clicking the quote button after highlighting any desired text.


O no. Paul's not using figures of speech. We are actually supposed to experience this deadness to sin and life in Christ by following Christ's example, of course, granted only if we already have the earnest/foretaste that faith brought to us. So the unbeliever cannot have that hope by following Christs example, it will only be dead works for such.

Thanks again for the tutorial on how to quote, l already experimented with it, and l think l've figured it out as well.
Well when paul says we died with christ, do you take that literally? ls he not trying to say we should die to our past ways? our past lives which were the works of the flesh?
Well the problem here is what you call unbelief, why don't we focus on the fruits of the spirit and reject the fruits of the flesh? Rather than trying to believe the right thing specifically which has caused more divisions in the body of christ today, why don't we heed the words of jesus when he said:

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.

ls God not able to give the Holyspirit to them who ask, o ye of little faith.

lt is the Holyspirit that brings righteousness and the fruits of the spirit is righteousness. The only way we know we have the Holyspirit is when we exhibit the fruits of the spirit. What the world needs is the spirit of christ to do the will of God in my opinion. l am saved by the blood of jesus, but this is not specifically because God needs blood, it is because jesus died innocently in our place but yet made intercession for the righteous, so that he still speaks to God even after death.

Daejoyoung:
Thanks again for the tutorial on how to quote, l already experimented with it, and l think l've figured it out as well.
Well when paul says we died with christ, do you take that literally. ls he not trying to say we should die to our past ways? our past lives which were the works of the flesh?
Well the problem here is what you call unbelief, why don't we focus on the fruits of the spirit and reject the fruits of the flesh? Rather than trying to believe the right thing specifically which has caused more divisions in the body of christ today, why don't we heed the words of jesus when he said:

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.

ls God not able to give the Holyspirit to them who ask, o ye of little faith.

lt is the Holyspirit that brings righteousness and the fruits of the spirit is righteousness. The only way we know we have the Holyspirit is when we exhibit the fruits of the spirit. What the world needs is the spirit of christ to do the will of God in my opinion. l am saved by the blood of jesus, but this is not specifically because God needs blood, it is because jesus died innocently in our place but yet made intercession for the righteous, so that he still speaks to God even after death.

Sorry, please read my edited post. Theres more.

Ihedinobi3:
They did, friend, they did get to "this." I do not accept anything that Daejoyoung teaches as true, and I do not want to be associated with it in any way. He and I do not agree on the Cross or on how we are saved, so please do not make it seem that we do. If you agree with him, feel free to do so. I am not stopping you, but don't put me in the same place as him or you, if what you teach is different than I have explained at length.

As for the sin nature, it is only dealt with finally in the Resurrection. Until we are resurrected, we are to resist its influence while we are still in this mortal flesh. It is in our flesh, after all. The sin nature is not done away with by believing in the Lord Jesus and His Sacrifice for us. Our faith only secures for us a promise of being freed from it through a Resurrection like that of the Lord Jesus. If we hold on to that faith until the end of our lives here on Earth or until the Lord returns, whichever happens first, then we will be delivered from this sinful flesh and given a new body that has no sin in it, a body like that which our Lord currently has.

So, while I do believe that the Cross of Jesus secured deliverance from the sin nature for us, I don't believe that we will experience that deliverance until the Resurrection, so I do not teach that. If you teach it, please do not associate me with such a teaching.

Ok. Your position doesn't conflict mine. I was trying to find a common point in what you both were saying but its still very fine if you hold the above position.

Finallydead:
Ok. Your position doesn't conflict mine. I was trying to find a common point in what you both were saying but its still very fine if you hold the above position.

If you teach what I just said, then it doesn't. If you don't, then it does.

As for common ground, that is never as important to me as Truth. Whatever the Bible says is what I believe and teach. If anyone goes outside of what is written or attempts to twist what is written, I have no common ground with them.

Ihedinobi3:
If you teach what I just said, then it doesn't. If you don't, then it does.

As for common ground, that is never as important to me as Truth. Whatever the Bible says is what I believe and teach. If anyone goes outside of what is written or attempts to twist what is written, I have no common ground with them.

I can go beyond what you said without contradicting it as much as NT does OT.
As for common ground, it's never important except at those times that Truth lies in the common ground of the differences.
Have a blessed day.

Finallydead:
Sorry, please read my edited post. Theres more.

ok your theory on the death of jesus is similar to mine, it is appeasement to God in a sense. But this is how the common view of substitutionary atonement is usually presented, something like this:

The only way God can forgive sins is through blood because without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins, and because God is both just and loving, in order to satisfy his justice he sent jesus to be the sacrifice to take the death we were supposed to die, because jesus died in our place and suffered the wrath of God we would no longer go to Hellfire.

Now what l quoted above is the entire gospel for many Christians. When they say believe in jesus, this is exactly what they mean.

Now this gospel is true and very scriptural but without context it becomes confusing and problematic.

1) "The only way God can forgive sins is through blood"

This is true except that most evangelicals today who preach this, misunderstand what sin is in this context nor do they even understand the various aspects of sin. Sin in the bible does not only mean breaking of God's commandment, it also represents a fallen state, our mortality that makes us live by the flesh alone and makes us die. For this particular sin, we can't escape it completely in this world, but we have the Holyspirit in us to help us to a great extent until the resurrection age comes.
But most fundamentally there is a third type of sin, and that is what we call unintentional sins, which is mostly a collective sin both from your community as a whole and sometimes from others and even yourself. This is the sin a lamb was offered for, and this is the sin jesus took away by his blood as in lsaiah 53. The phrase "And he shall save his people from their sin", is referring to this sin of the nation that makes them suffer slavery, sicknesses, and other effects of sin. Collective sin could come from yourself but most times you suffer due to the sins of your community as a whole.

But when people preach to unbelievers most times without this understanding it becomes a problem. So in summary:

1) Jesus was affected by our collective sin due to our mortality. He didn't die due to any fault of his own but due to the collective sins of humans.
2) ln this sense, the lamb that was slain for unintentional sins both collectively and individually became known as a shadow or prototype prophesying jesus.
3) We are to bother more about our day to day sins( the first category of sin and most common one) which we are slaves of too, and for that, all we have to do is to repent and have no hatred in our hearts for our brother, and that is all it takes for God to forgive that sin.

This is my understanding, and thanks for the civil discussion so far.

Finallydead:
Hi Daejoyoung

O. I see. Just highlight the bits you want and insert them in the middle of the

Finallydead l like the way you interprete the old testament, it is similar to my way in that l don't take it literally.
But in your interpretation of the burning of the daughters of the priests, you say that she may be saved and go to heaven because of the blood atonement.
lf you were a priest then and your daughter whom you love did that, would you burn her alive to save her soul?
l understand your view on the old testament, it is all about symbols and l read it like that, but it is contrary to the teachings of jesus in my view to take it literally. The God whom jesus was teaching us about can be seen in the old testament, but we must interpret that old testament only through the teachings of jesus together with our brain and conscience.

Daejoyoung:
Finallydead l like the way you interprete the old testament, it is similar to my way in that l don't take it literally.
But in your interpretation of the burning of the daughters of the priests, you say that she may be saved and go to heaven because of the blood atonement.
lf you were a priest then and your daughter whom you love did that, would you burn her alive to save her soul?
l understand your view on the old testament, it is all about symbols and l read it like that, but it is contrary to the teachings of jesus in my view to take it literally. The God whom jesus was teaching us about can be seen in the old testament, but we must interpret that old testament only through the teachings of jesus together with our brain and conscience.

OK. It's still okay to work with this. The girl isn't burnt to save her, no. She's simply a scapegoat that'll help others run from Sin. Yet from eternity standpoint, she's not lost. And from time standpoint she's of no use on earth cause she will be enslaved to sexual sin without a possibility of being delivered under the OT provisions, she will grow worse and become a little leaven... The law was harsh relative to today but it's where God could start from with men to bring Jesus on the scene.

Maximus69:


You are a 21th century joker my friend, someone threw a question in the thread and instead of presenting your own understanding on the matter, you're telling him NOT TO LISTEN to another presenter!

For your information, people like Martin Luther were confused not because of what the inspired writers penned down, but due to the misinterpretations given those inspired words!

If Martin is alive today to study the New Word Translation of the holy scriptures that was supervised by the mighty spirit being himself (Jesus), in fact he will behave like some people in the Americas who grabbed the NWT to their bosom and began shedding tears of joy as they're able to grasp the message in God's word!

I am wondering where you get this YOUR according to

Maximus69: New Word Translation of the holy scriptures that was supervised by the mighty spirit being himself (Jesus)

Achorladey: Hahahahahahaha and yet the Organization you are a member of states the BELOW and TEACH the BELOW.....

Christians today need not think that the WORK of TRANSLATING the Septuagint, Wycliffe’s Bible, the King James Version, or ANY OTHER TRANSLATION( INCLUDING THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION after all it's also a TRANSLATION) was inspired by God. Nevertheless, when we review the history of these and many other translations that have been published, it gives support to this fact: Just as Jehovah promised, his Word has endured. Does that not strengthen your faith that all the other promises Jehovah has made will likewise come true?​

achorladey:
I am wondering where you get this YOUR according to

Maximus69: New Word Translation of the holy scriptures that was supervised by the mighty spirit being himself (Jesus)

Achorladey: Hahahahahahaha and yet the Organization you are a member of states the BELOW and TEACH the BELOW.....

Christians today need not think that the WORK of TRANSLATING the Septuagint, Wycliffe’s Bible, the King James Version, or ANY OTHER TRANSLATION( INCLUDING THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION after all it's also a TRANSLATION) was inspired by God. Nevertheless, when we review the history of these and many other translations that have been published, it gives support to this fact: Just as Jehovah promised, his Word has endured. Does that not strengthen your faith that all the other promises Jehovah has made will likewise come true?​

@bolded is where to find answer to your questions Sir!

The one and only promise fulfilled in our own time is organizing believers to form one big happy global family of PEACE loving worshippers! Isaiah 2:1-4

So if Jehovah's Witnesses are the one and only religious group (claiming Christians) that can do this, then it's evident that the Bible translations they used to achieve this must have been supervised by the PRINCE OF PEACE himself!

Otherwise they'll have just become yet another additional religion of no specific significance along with those HAVING A FORM OF GODLY DEVOTION BUT PROVING FALSE TO GOD'S ABILITY TO FULFILL HIS PROMISE! 2Timothy 3:5

Thanks!

Maximus69:
@bolded is where to find answer to your questions Sir!

The one and only promise fulfilled in our own time is organizing believers to form one big happy global family of PEACE loving worshippers! Isaiah 2:1-4

So if Jehovah's Witnesses are the one and only religious group (claiming Christians) that can do this, then it's evident that the Bible translations they used to achieve this must have been supervised by the PRINCE OF PEACE himself!

Otherwise they'll have just become yet another additional religion of no specific significance along with those HAVING A FORM OF GODLY DEVOTION BUT PROVING FALSE TO GOD'S ABILITY TO FULFILL HIS PROMISE! 2Timothy 3:5

Thanks!

I know DIVERSION will come into PLAY. Were you to read what you BOLDED. It's making reference to the WORD of GOD not an ORGANIZATION.

The word of God had done GREAT THINGS before the ORGANIZATION you are a member of CAME into EXISTENCE and as the scriptures states clearly the WORD of GOD endures FOREVER.

achorladey:
I know DIVERSION will come into PLAY. Were you to read what you BOLDED. It's making reference to the WORD of GOD not an ORGANIZATION.

The word of God had done GREAT THINGS before the ORGANIZATION you are a member of CAME into EXISTENCE and as the scriptures states clearly the WORD of GOD endures FOREVER.

This is where your problem is hiding!

There is no generation of false religionists who do dispute what happened IN THE PAST after seeing the records!

Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Rabbis criticizing Jesus weren't arguing over what God's word did IN THE PAST after such things had been written.

What they're always arguing is that true worshippers of God shouldn't claim to be unique in any way even when it's evident that what they belief totally differs from those separating themselves as unique!

So it goes, you'll agree that God's word has done great things IN THE PAST.
But

What does the scriptures say God's word will do in our own generation?

And


Which group is used to fulfill such promise?

Or are you saying God's word is no more alive to fulfilled promises in order to help people IDENTIFY pure worship anymore as it has been doing IN THE PAST?

Maximus69:
This is where your problem is hiding!

There is no generation of false religionists who do dispute what happened IN THE PAST after seeing the records!

Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Rabbis criticizing Jesus weren't arguing over what God's word did IN THE PAST after such things had been written.

What they're always arguing is that true worshippers of God shouldn't claim to be unique in any way even when it's evident that what they belief totally differs from those separating themselves as unique!

So it goes, you'll agree that God's word has done great things IN THE PAST.
But

What does the scriptures say God's word will do in our own generation?

And


Which group is used to fulfill such promise?

Or are you saying God's word is no more alive to fulfilled promises in order to help people IDENTIFY pure worship anymore as it has been doing IN THE PAST?

It's now are YOU now SAYING God's word is no more ALIVE. Hahahahahaha.

Atleast you know and agree the WORD of God is ALIVE and had done great things in the past before the birth of the ORGANIZATION you are a member of.

That should equally tell the WORD of God is still alive today and still does GREAT THINGS outside of the organization of JWS.

Perhaps God's word is ONLY ALIVE in the UNIQUE GROUP (Organization of JWS). Hahahahahahaha. This is for your ASKING, which group?

When asked what is UNIQUE about your GROUP. You will tells us you have united 8.5 millions of PEOPLE out of 8 plus billions on EARTH. One wonder maybe other religious denominations go to CHURCHES and PARISH with weapons of war everyday to kill THEIR members.

As it SEEMS they are not UNITED. Hahahaha. Without going international you should know the population of some of the denominations here are in multiples of your figures here in Nigeria not to talk of the outside communities.

achorladey:
It's now are YOU now SAYING God's word is no more ALIVE. Hahahahahaha.

Atleast you know and agree the WORD of God is ALIVE and had done great things in the past before the birth of the ORGANIZATION you are a member of.

That should equally tell the WORD of God is still alive today and still does GREAT THINGS outside of the organization of JWS.

Perhaps God's word is ONLY ALIVE in the UNIQUE GROUP (Organization of JWS). Hahahahahahaha. This is for your ASKING, which group?

When asked what is UNIQUE about your GROUP. You will tells us you have united 8.5 millions of PEOPLE out of 8 plus billions on EARTH. One wonder maybe other religious denominations go to CHURCHES and PARISH with weapons of war everyday to kill THEIR members.

As it SEEMS they are not UNITED. Hahahaha. Without going international you should know the population of some of the denominations here are in multiples of your figures here in Nigeria not to talk of the outside communities.

Hmmmmmmmmm it's true!

The number is ratio 1~1,000

But i wonder why only this group is globally known as a peace loving family of worshipers! John 17:20-23

Perhaps it's because all of them have resigned from manufacturing, selling, buying or learning how to use weapons! Isaiah 2:1-4

Maximus69:
Hmmmmmmmmm it's true!

The number is ratio 1~1,000

But i wonder why only this group is globally known as a peace loving family of worshipers! John 17:20-23

Perhaps it's because all of them have resigned from manufacturing, selling, buying or learning how to use weapons! Isaiah 2:1-4

Shows the STATISTICS and PARAMETERS used to ascertain your PEACEFUL LOVING FAMILY.

At least you know your ratio to the rest of the WORLD and your NEIGHBOURS around you at the moment that are up to 1000 in total are they with guns, cutlasses or weapons of war lynching one another?

achorladey:
Shows the STATISTICS and PARAMETERS used to ascertain your PEACEFUL LOVING FAMILY.
At least you know your ratio to the rest of the WORLD and your NEIGHBOURS around you at the moment that are up to 1000 in total are they with guns, cutlasses or weapons of war lynching one another?

No more manufacturing of destructive weapons, no more learning wars, no more buying, selling or handling weapons to kill our fellowman for any reason whatsoever That's the order the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is giving all adherents as COMMADMENT today!

Please honestly/sincerely remove that bias mindset of yours and look again with eyes of faith whether you can see any killings again If everybody on planet earth wholeheartedly submit to the orders of this 8 men in America

Well that's what Jehovah's Witnesses are saying!

So whether you like it or not, they are the one and only group Jesus is using to direct his sheep today, therefore it's only those who become submissive to them will be pardoned! Luke 19:27

Maximus69:
No more manufacturing of destructive weapons, no more learning wars, no more buying, selling or handling weapons to kill our fellowman for any reason whatsoever That's the order the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is giving all adherents as COMMADMENT today!

Please honestly/sincerely remove that bias mindset of yours and look again with eyes of faith whether you can see any killings again If everybody on planet earth wholeheartedly submit to the orders of this 8 men in America

Well that's what Jehovah's Witnesses are saying!

So whether you like it or not, they are the one and only group Jesus is using to direct his sheep today, therefore it's only those who become submissive to them will be pardoned! Luke 19:27

You have not said anything about the 1000 neighbours you have around you today regarding their use of WEAPONS of war. Have they been KILLING of another or brandishing those weapons the whole day?

Have they been Manufacturing WEAPONS of war in their rooms, homes, houses the whole day?

Oga Maximus69 You see what your eyes want to SEE so says a musical artist. Even your EYES of FAITH can be made to see only see what YOU want to SEE. Leave bias ALONE.

God's word is still ALIVE and NOT dead. Before your ONE and ONLY group got existence. People have been FOLLOWING the commands of the LORD. I am wondering what difference your GROUP makes.

achorladey:
You have not said anything about the 1000 neighbours you have around you today regarding their use of WEAPONS of war. Have they been KILLING of another or brandishing those weapons the whole day?

Have they been Manufacturing WEAPONS of war in their rooms, homes, houses the whole day?

Oga Maximus69 You see what your eyes want to SEE so says a musical artist. Even your EYES of FAITH can be made to see only see what YOU want to SEE. Leave bias ALONE.

God's word is still ALIVE and NOT dead. Before your ONE and ONLY group got existence. People have been FOLLOWING the commands of the LORD. I am wondering what difference your GROUP makes.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

I can understand you Sir

Thanks for your time!

Maximus69:
Hmmmmmmmmm.

I can understand you Sir

Thanks for your time!

I told you he has rendered his conscience death, so far he must comply 100% with the orders of the Governing Body before he could be accepted as a Christian brother amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, he will always speak against them no matter what they're able to achieve!

His special likeness is for religionists calling him their brother in the Lord in his face even if they'll mock him in his absence!

TATIME:
I told you he has rendered his conscience death, so far he must comply 100% with the orders of the Governing Body before he could be accepted as a Christian brother amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, he will always speak against them no matter what they're able to achieve!

His special likeness is for religionists calling him their brother in the Lord in his face even if they'll mock him in his absence!

Brother, I now know why God's people were warned to avoid Apostates!

They already know the TRUTH, but because they're not allowed to have their way they're fully determined to stand against it!

Now i've seen him inside~out, thanks brother!

TATIME:
I told you he has rendered his conscience death, so far he must comply 100% with the orders of the Governing Body before he could be accepted as a Christian brother amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, he will always speak against them no matter what they're able to achieve!

His special likeness is for religionists calling him their brother in the Lord in his face even if they'll mock him in his absence!

TATIME: no matter what they're able to achieve!

Achorladey: That's all I need in your post. ACHIEVE ACHIEVE ACHIEVE.

Romans 2:14,15 still available. when are ready to RESUME discussions on that scriptures I am available

Maximus69:
Brother, I now know why God's people were warned to avoid Apostates!

They already know the TRUTH, but because they're not allowed to have their way they're fully determined to stand against it!

Now i've seen him inside~out, thanks brother!

So you know I know the "TRUTH" Really NICE.

MISHIGAS!

Maximus69:
@Shadeyinka!

Jesus categorized people claiming Christians in two folds, the Sheep category and the Goat category. Matthew 25:31-46

We all know the attributes of these two domestic animals, so if you're not fully submissive to those taking the lead where you worship {Hebrew 13:7,17} and you can't find a better performing leading team elsewhere in order to support and participate fully in whatever they teach, then your attitude is NOT different from that of a typical GOAT!

The import is you only have a form of godliness but you're proving FALSE to God's ability {2Timothy 3:5} to unite his worshippers as one under one umbrella {John17:20-22} meaning you detest EQUITY (ORDERLINESS)

WRONG!

Lord Yeshua did not categorize Christians into TWO types, but FOUR.

[color=silver].[/color] LEVITICUS 19:1-2.

AND The LORD
Spake unto Moses,
Saying,

2. "Speak unto all
The Congregation of
The Children of Israel,
and say unto them,

'YE SHALL BE HOLY:
FOR I THE LORD YOUR GOD
(AM) HOLY."

[color=silver].[/color] REVELATION 22:11-12.

11. "He that is UNJUST,
let him be Unjust still:
and he which is FILTHY,
let him be Filthy still:
and he that is RIGHTEOUS,
let him be Righteous still:
and he that is HOLY,
let him be Holy still.
12. "And, behold,
I come quickly;
and my Reward is with me,
to give every man According
as his Work shall be."

[color=silver].[/color] LUKE 8:4-18.

4. And when much people
were gathered together,
and were come to him
out of every city,
he Spake by a Parable:

5. "A sower went out
to sow his seed:
and as he sowed,
some fell by the way side;
and it was trodden down,
and the Fowls of the Air
devoured it.

6. "And some fell
upon a rock;
and as soon as it was
sprung up,
it withered away,
because it lacked moisture.

7. "And some fell
among thorns;
and the thorns sprang up
with it,
and choked it.

8. "And other fell
on good ground,
and sprang up,
and bare fruit an hundredfold."

And when he had
Said these things,
he cried,

"He that hath
ears to hear,
let him hear."

9. And his Disciples
asked him,
saying,

"What might
this Parable be?"

10. And he Said,

"Unto you it is given
to know The Mysteries
of The Kingdom of God:
but to others in Parables;

'THAT SEEING
THEY MIGHT NOT SEE,
AND HEARING
THEY MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND.'

11. "Now the Parable is this:

'THE SEED IS
THE WORD OF GOD.

12. 'THOSE BY THE WAY SIDE
ARE THEY THAT HEAR;
THEN COMETH THE DEVIL,
AND TAKETH AWAY
THE WORD
OUT OF THEIR HEARTS,
LEST THEY SHOULD BELIEVE
AND BE SAVED.

13. 'THEY ON THE ROCK
ARE THEY,
WHICH,
WHEN THEY HEAR,
RECEIVE THE WORD
WITH JOY;
AND THESE
HAVE NO ROOT,
WHICH FOR
A WHILE BELIEVE,
AND IN TIME OF TEMPTATION
FALL AWAY.

14. 'AND THAT WHICH
FELL AMONG THORNS
ARE THEY WHICH,
WHEN THEY HAVE HEARD,
GO FORTH,
AND ARE CHOKED WITH
CARES AND RICHES
AND PLEASURES
OF THIS LIFE,
AND BRING NO FRUIT
TO PERFECTION.

15. 'BUT THAT
ON THE GOOD GROUND
ARE THEY,
WHICH IN AN HONEST
AND GOOD HEART,
HAVING HEARD THE WORD,
KEEP (IT),
AND BRING FORTH FRUIT
WITH PATIENCE.'

16. "No man,
when he hath
lighted a candle,
covereth it with a vessel,
or putteth it under a bed;
but setteth it on a candlestick,
that they which enter in
may see the light.
17. "For nothing is secret,
that shall not be
made manifest;
neither any thing hid,
that shall not be known
and come abroad.
18. "Take heed therefore
how ye hear:
for whosoever hath,
to him shall be given;
and whosoever hath not,
from him shall be taken
even that which he
seemeth to have."

HOLINESS CAN BE ACHIEVED BY ANYONE, REGARDLESS OF THE DEFAULT SPIRITUAL ENERGY STATES THEY WERE BORN WITH.

If that were not so, God would not have Commanded the Children of Israel to all attain HOLINESS.

WITHIN A UNIVERSE ARE FOUR DEFAULT CHRONIC SPIRITUAL ENERGY LEVELS LIVING CREATURES OR NON-LIVING OBJECTS MAY BE IN.

"Unjustness;" "Filthiness," "Righteousness," and "Holiness" is one way of evaluating them.

"By-the-Wayside," "On-the-Rock," "Among Thorns," and "Good Ground," is another.

Here is another:

[color=silver].[/color] THE FOUR LEVELS OF PERCEPTION.

4. DIFFERENTIATION: The sane and intelligent ability to perceive the differences between similar things.

3. ASSOCIATION: The sane and intelligent ability to perceive the similarities between different things.

2. IDENTIFICATION: The insane and stupid inability to perceive the differences between different things.

1. DISSOCIATION: The insane and stupid inability to perceive the similarities between similar things.

0. DEATH: The Complete Failure of the ability to perceive anything.

[See: SCIENTOLOGY 0-8: The Book of Basics, by L. Ron Hubbard.
THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THOUGHT, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

OR WE COULD JUST GO WITH WHAT LORD YESHUA TAUGHT, AND PRETEND THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT HE SAID?


[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 7:1-6.

"JUDGE not,
that ye be not judged.
2. "For with what judgment
ye judge,
ye shall be judged:
and with what measure
ye mete,
it shall be measured
to you again.
3. "And why beholdest thou
the mote
that is in thy brother's eye,
but consideredst not
the beam
that is in thine own eye?
4. "Or how wilt thou say
to thy brother,

'LET ME PULL OUT
THE MOTE
OUT OF THINE EYE;'

And behold, a beam
(is) in thine own eye.
5. "Thou Hypocrite,
first cast out the beam
out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou
see clearly to cast out
the mote out of
thy brother's eye.
6. "Give not that which is Holy
unto the dogs,
neither cast ye your pearls
before swine,
lest they trample them
under their feet,
and turn again,
and rend you."

[color=silver].[/color]     MATTHEW 25:31-46.

31. "When The Son of Man
shall come in his Glory,
and all the Holy Angels
with him,
then shall he sit upon
The Throne of his Glory:
32. "And before him
shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate
them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth
his sheep from the goats:
33. "And he shall set the sheep
on his right hand,
but the goats on the left.
34. "Then shall the King say
unto them on his right hand,

'COME,
YE BLESSED OF MY FATHER,
INHERIT THE KINGDOM
PREPARED FOR YOU
FROM THE FOUNDATION
OF THE WORLD:
35. 'FOR I WAS AN HUNGRED,
AND YE GAVE ME MEAT:
I WAS THIRSTY,
AND YE GAVE ME DRINK:
I WAS A STRANGER,
AND YE TOOK ME IN:
36. 'NAKED,
AND YE CLOTHED ME:
I WAS SICK,
AND YE VISITED ME:
I WAS IN PRISON,
AND YE CAME UNTO ME.'

37. Then shall the Righteous
answer him,
saying,

'LORD,
WHEN SAW WE THEE
AN HUNGRED,
AND FED THEE?
OR THIRSTY,
AND GAVE THEE DRINK?
38. 'WHEN SAW WE THEE
A STRANGER,
AND TOOK THEE IN?
OR NAKED,
AND CLOTHED THEE?
39. 'OR WHEN SAW WE THEE
SICK,
OR IN PRISON,
AND CAME UNTO THEE?'

40. "And the King shall answer
and say unto them,

'VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU,

"INASMUCH AS
YE HAVE DONE IT
UNTO ONE OF
THE LEAST OF THESE
MY BRETHREN,
YE HAVE DONE IT
UNTO ME." '

41. "Then shall he say also
unto them on the left hand,

'DEPART FROM ME,
YE CURSED,
INTO EVERLASTING FIRE,
PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL
AND HIS ANGELS:
42. 'FOR I WAS AN HUNGRED,
AND YE GAVE ME NO MEAT:
I WAS THIRSTY,
AND YE GAVE ME NO DRINK:
43. 'I WAS A STRANGER,
AND YE TOOK ME NOT IN:
NAKED,
AND YE CLOTHED ME NOT:
SICK,
AND IN PRISON,
AND YE VISITED ME NOT.'

44. "Then shall they also
answer him,
saying,

'LORD,
WHEN SAW WE THEE
AN HUNGRED, OR ATHIRST,
OR A STRANGER, OR NAKED,
OR SICK, OR IN PRISON,
AND DID NOT MINISTER
UNTO THEE?'

45. "Then shall he
answer them,
saying,

'VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU,

"INASMUCH AS
YE DID IT NOT
TO ONE OF
THE LEAST OF THESE,
YE DID IT NOT TO ME." '

46. "And these shall go away
into Everlasting Punishment:
but the Righteous into Life Eternal."

SINCE ALL YOU KNOW OF THE BIBLE IS WHAT YOU WERE INDOCTRINATED IN BRAINWASHING SESSIONS, YOU ARE ONLY AWARE OF THE MATTHEW 25 SPIRITUAL LEVEL EVALUATION, AND ARE UNABLE TO ASSOCIATE IT WITH THE MATTHEW 7 AND 13 EVALUATIONS.

Lord Yeshua evaluated people as DOGS, PIGS, GOATS, and SHEEP.

The TARGET is SHEEP.

4. THE SHEEP: will be the ones who hear the Word, Believe It, Receive It, Keep It, and Understand It- even to completion- bearing fruit effortlessly one hundredfold- because they MEDITATE on the Word of God, and operate both Spiritually and Physically together.

3. THE GOATS: are the ones who have to strain to produce fruits at all- but bring none to maturity. They don't feed, water, clothe, shelter, protect, or visit The True Brethren- treating them to the kindness of The Gospel. They recognize Spirituality and Physicality, but do not MEDITATE deeply enough, or ACT UPON what MEDITATION shows them.

2. THE PIGS: eagerly believe The Word- because they are SHALLOW people. But when the going gets tough, they do not get going- because they are shallow people. They cannot produce any Fruit, of painful obstacles bar their way.

1. THE DOGS: cannot understand, receive, believe, nor keep The Word of God- because they neither MEDITATE, nor recognize the Spirituality/Physicality Duality.

Maximus69:
It's a pity that Jesus will disown you because you are one of the WORKERS OF INIQUITY (LAWLESSNESS) Matthew 7:23

[color=silver].[/color] DEUTERONOMY 25:13-16.

13. Thou shalt not
have in thy bag
divers weights,
a great and a small.
14. Thou shalt not
have in thine house
divers measures,
a great and a small.
15. (But) thou shalt have
a perfect and just weight,
a perfect and just measure
shalt thou have:
that thy days
may be lengthened
in the land which
The LORD thy God giveth thee.
16. For all that do such things,
(and) all that do unrighteously,
(are) an abomination
unto The LORD thy God.

WHAT EVIL JUDGMENT DO YOU APPLY TO SHADEYINKA, THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU?

You are a WORKER OF INIQUITY, who has joined a Group of Blasphemers, who have called Good Evil and called Evil Good.

The JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES take MATTHEW 7:22 out-of-context to claim that those DOING THE WORKS OF GOD are EVILDOERS.

While ignoring the relevant context of the entirety of Lord Yeshua's Commandments in MATTHEW 5-7 must be applied, if one is to enter into The Kingdom of Heaven.

The JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES grant the Disciples the right to create Commandments of God that do not exist, and ban BLOOD TRANSFUSION- which did not exist in Ancient Times- and use it to rob needy people of their lives.

Meanwhile, the JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES have NO PROBLEM using European Medicine, which is based upon GREEK IDOLATRY: the worship of the god of HIPPOCRATES, called ASCLEPIUS, Son of Apollo, his wife EPIONE, and their NINE CHILDREN. (Look it up!)

I wager that never comes out in "ASLEEP!" Magazine!

Lord Yeshua does not know you.

MISHIGAS!

Maximus69:
It's a pity you can't make short responses to communicate effectively, but it's OK you're doing something here too!

YOU ARE A MEMBER OF A MURDER CARTEL THAT TARGETS THE WEAK, AND DENIES THEM MEDICAL ATTENTION THAT WOULD SAVE THEIR LIVES!

Your people like by commission and omission- to public and junior members alike.

For instance, when Bulgaria threatened to take them to the International Court of Justice, over their refusal to allow members to receive Blood Transfusions when needed, they rescinded the alleged Commandment of God for Bulgarian residents, BUT WITHHELD THAT LIFE-SAVING INFORMATION FROM ITS OTHER MEMBERS.

http://watchman.org/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-bulgaria-and-blood/

(1)If they truly believed that their interpretation of The Bible to kill their members was from God, the Jehovah's Witnesses Council would not have feared going to court, because a Christian fears God, rather than men.

[color=silver].[/color] LUKE 12:1-12.

IN the mean time,
when there were gathered together
an innumerable multitude of people,
insomuch that they trode
one upon another,
he began to Say
unto his Disciples
first of all,

"Beware ye of the Leaven
of the Pharisees,
which is Hypocrisy.
2. "For there is nothing covered,
that shall not be revealed;
neither hid,
that shall not be known.
3. "Therefore whatsoever
ye have spoken in Darkness
shall be heard in the Light;
and that which ye have
spoken in the ear in closets
shall be proclaimed
upon the housetops.
4. "And I Say unto you
my Friends,

'BE NOT AFRAID OF THEM
THAT KILL THE BODY,
AND AFTER THAT
HAVE NO MORE
THAT THEY CAN DO.'

5. "But I will forewarn you
Whom ye shall fear:

'FEAR HIM,
WHICH AFTER HE HATH KILLED
HATH POWER
TO CAST INTO HELL;'

yea, I Say unto you,

'FEAR HIM.' "

6. "Are not five sparrows
sold for two farthings,
and not one of them
is forgotten before God?
7. "But even the very
hairs of your head
are all numbered.
Fear not therefore:
ye are of more value
than many sparrows.
8. "Also I Say unto you,

'WHOSOEVER SHALL
CONFESS ME
BEFORE MEN,
HIM SHALL THE SON OF MAN
ALSO CONFESS BEFORE
THE ANGELS OF GOD:
9. 'BUT HE THAT DENIETH ME
BEFORE MEN
SHALL BE DENIED BEFORE
THE ANGELS OF GOD.'

10. "And whosoever
shall speak a word
against the Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him:
but unto him that blasphemeth
against The Holy Ghost
it shall not be forgiven.
11. "And when they bring you
unto the synagogues,
and unto magistrates,
and powers,
take ye no thought
how or what thing
ye shall answer,
or what ye shall say:
12. "For The Holy Ghost
shall Teach you
in the same hour
what ye ought to say."

(2) If they truly believed that they were godly men-of-God, the Jehovah's Witnesses Council would have told all of their members of their change in Doctrine.

[color=silver].[/color] JOHN 15:15.

15. "Henceforth I call you
not "Servants;"
for the servant knoweth not
what his lord doeth:
but I have called you "Friends;"
for all things that I have
heard of my Father
I have made known unto you."

WEAK-MINDED PEOPLE ALLOW LIARS TO ENSLAVE THEM- BELIEVING THAT ALLOWING OTHERS TO DO THE HEAVY-THINKING FOR THEM WILL ABSOLVE THEM OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR SINS!

Newsflash!

It doesn't.

Believing the WATCHTOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY'S lies does not make them true.

You will never be pardoned because "Someone DECEIVED you!"

Maximus69:
You've tried now but endeavor to cite the scriptures and summarise the points NOT quoting scriptures word for word Sir, so that i can read to grasp what you have in mind.

Thanks!

What is the matter with you?

Don't you have THE HOLY GHOST to Teach you The Way of the Lord, and Remind you of all his Teachings?

What exactly do you think you could possibly understand, WITHOUT DEPARTING FROM EVIL?

How could you possibly hope to see into The Kingdom of God, when you are not BORN AGAIN?

The Lord Yeshua had to tell CEPHAS, the night of his arrest, THAT HE WAS STILL NOT CONVERTED.

THE BOOK OF ACTS plainly shows that HE WAS NEVER CONVERTED.

NONE of the Disciples were- and these were exposed to the Ministry of Lord Yeshua DIRECTLY.

What, therefore, do you think that you have received, that you think that you know anything about the Worship of Yahweh God?

I HAVE TO INCLUDE ALL THESE SCRIPTURES, BECAUSE ORGANIZED CHRISTIANS EITHER NEVER READ THEM THEIR WHOLE LIVES, OR ELSE JUST FORGET ABOUT THEM, AFTER HAVING LOOKED AT THEM- BECAUSE THEIR ORGANIZATION NEVER GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO UNDERSTAND THEM.

It is only HYPOCRITES who complain about the lengthiness of my Posts, because most of them are taken up by the Scriptures I quote that support my points. A CHRISTIAN should not be reading them in my Post for the first time. They should REMEMBER them, and SKIP PAST THEM, because they ALREADY KNOW what The Bible said there.

MEDITATION IN THE WORD OF GOD AWAKENS TOTAL RECALL OF THE WHOLE BIBLE- AS I HAVE TAUGHT REPEATEDLY, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO KNOW!

This is how we are SUPPOSED to KNOW THE SCRIPTURES- not the laborious process of leafing through Books, and "CRAMMING."

Oyinbos cannot afford to let AFRICANS in particular, and the World in general, know the correct use of the Mind.