₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
Is there anywhere in the old testament that God said he was sending his son to come and die for sins?.. Be sincere.. If not where did the Jesus story come from.. Definitely not from the Jews or Judaism..

Even if it was written in the old testament that "God said he was sending his son to come and die for sins", does that mean a God actually sent his son to come and literally die for sins? Could the Jesus story not just be exactly that, a story, or mythology? Does it have to be literally true for humans to derive benefit from its reading?

I've said it and would say it again. Just trying to prove the "story" wrong makes you wiser. There's no way you'd bother learning what you have learnt if someone hadn't told you the "story" and if you hadn't read it yourself, and to be honest with you, I'd rather that than the total ignorant people most would be without it. If someone hadn't sold you the Jesus story, you be here touting just some other story, and there's no guarantee it would be any truer nor the world or you be any better.

"Die for sins"! What a joke! To "teach you the errors of your ways", more like.

budaatum:
Even if it was written in the old testament that "God said he was sending his son to come and die for sins", does that mean a God actually sent his son to come and literally die for sins? Could the Jesus story not just be exactly that, a story, or mythology? Does it have to be literally true for humans to derive benefit from its reading?

I've said it and would say it again. Just trying to prove the "story" wrong makes you wiser. There's no way you'd bother learning what you have learnt if someone hadn't told you the "story" and if you hadn't read it yourself, and to be honest with you, I'd rather that than the total ignorant people most would be without it. If someone hadn't sold you the Jesus story, you be here touting just some other story, and there's no guarantee it would be any truer nor the world or you be any better.

"Die for sins"! What a joke! To "teach you the errors of your ways", more like.

Is that not what the Torah was for... So we will live meaningful lives... God already provided the laws for us to obey and follow..

sonmvayina:
Is that not what the Torah was for... So we will live meaningful lives... God already provided the laws for us to obey and follow..

The Torah was the tribal book of the Israelites. The equivalent of stories about Orunmila in Yoruba culture, which they pretty much kept to themselves. It was not meant for Gentiles like you, and would have likely died off without Jesus repackaging and Christian advertising and salesmanship.

The Israelites definitely would not have shared their Torah with anyone, least with you and still don't, as far as I can tell.

budaatum:
The Torah was the tribal book of the Israelites. The equivalent of stories about Orunmila in Yoruba culture, which they pretty much kept to themselves. It was not meant for Gentiles like you, and would have likely died off without Jesus repackaging and Christian advertising and salesmanship.

The Israelites definitely would not have shared their Torah with anyone, least with you and still don't, as far as I can tell.

We were doing just fine before they brought it to us... When I said we, I meant my village in oshimili North in delta state

musicwriter:
Yes, myth is not falsehood but they're not meant to be taken literally. Its a story teaching something else but which you have taken literally.

There was no God talking to any man called Abraham.

And who told you that l have taken it literally ehn?

musicwriter:
The job of the historians were not to write about Jews, rather they were writing anything of interest. Below are historians that lived at the same time Jesus was supposed to have lived.

Livy
Born: 59 BC
Died: 17 AD
Profession: Historian
Full name: Titus Livius
Nationality: Roman

Philo
Born: 25 BC (Egypt)
Died: 50 AD
Full name: Philo Judaeus
Profession: Philosopher & author
Nephews: Tiberius Julius Alexander, Marcus Julius Alexander
Siblings: Alexander the Alabarch
Nationality: Egypt

Seneca
Born 4 BC
Died AD 65 (aged 68–69)
Profession: philosopher & poet
Nationality: Roman

Elder Pliny
Born: 23 AD
Died: August 25th, 79 AD
Full name: Gaius Plinius Secundus
Nationality: Roman
Children: Pliny the Younger

There are many of such great philosophers, poets, historians, leaders; being cited in history as living during the same time Jesus was supposed to have lived. Yet, none of them mentioned Jesus or a Messiah throughout their writings. These authors were like the newspapers of their day and they recorded every important event, but none of them said anything about Jesus.

How can a story of someone resurrecting from the dead not be of interest to anybody who lived in Jesus time? Tell me why not one historian of his time recorded his virgin birth, walking on water, resurrection, ascension into heaven. What could have been more important than a story of a man walking on water?

Apart from philo, the rest of these guys were Romans, so you expect Roman philosophers like Seneca to write about jesus? are you fvcking kidding me?

Daejoyoung:
And who told you that l have taken it literally ehn?

There was no God.

There was no Abraham.

There was no promise to anybody.

The bible stories are myths meant to teach something. Example; the Abraham story is meant to teach faith, perseverance, steadfastness.

Its same thing with the Job and Satan myth.

God, Abraham, Job, Satan are just characters in a book but they are not literal. There was no Satan talking to Job. Once you understand that, you're good to go.

Daejoyoung:
Apart from philo, the rest of these guys were Romans, so you expect Roman philosophers like Seneca to write about jesus? are you fvcking kidding me?

If you're smart enough to know that, then you should be smart enough to know that Jesus is an invention by Rome.

If they (Romans) themselves didnt have any live record WHATSOEVER of a living Jesus; why should you an African believe in same Jesus that they (Romans) told you about? Just think about that.

sonmvayina:
We were doing just fine before they brought it to us... When I said we, I meant my village in oshimili North in delta state

We can not say the same about everywhere else unfortunately.

We did not have the written word in Yorubaland, and Islam was taking over from our primitive understanding. I wouldn't have minded except one had to learn Arabic to read the Quran which would have made its understanding much more spurious than the translated to Yoruba Bible.

I wonder if you'd claim to be doing well in your "village in oshimili North in delta state" if the likes of you had not acquired the vast knowledge about the world that you now have.

Are you not better off than the villager in "oshimili North in delta state"? Would you have heard of the Torah?

The council of nicea was conveyed to find the relationship between Enki and Marduk... After so much arguing and fighting.. Athanasius said he was both God and man... Eusebius was tasked with creating a human history for him.. From the scripts that were presented at the council.. "make it to astonish"... Was emperor Constantine order to Eusebius.. And they were written accordingly..

budaatum:
We can not say the same about everywhere else unfortunately.

We did not have the written word in Yorubaland, and Islam was taking over from our primitive understanding. I wouldn't have minded except one had to learn Arabic to read the Quran which would have made its understanding much more spurious than the translated to Yoruba Bible.

I wonder if you'd claim to be doing well in your "village in oshimili North in delta state" if the likes of you had not acquired the vast knowledge about the world that you now have.

Are you not better off than the villager in "oshimili North in delta state"? Would you have heard of the Torah?

I don't need to hear about it... I don't need a book to tell me I have to respect my parents or elders.. It comes naturally..
In my village we don't even kill anybody no matter how grevious the crime is.. We banish or send to the evil forest.. So if Jesus was from my part of town.. He would have lived to a ripe old age..

sonmvayina:
I don't need to hear about it... I don't need a book to tell me I have to respect my parents or elders.. It comes naturally..
In my village we don't even kill anybody no matter how grevious the crime is.. We banish or send to the evil forest.. So if Jesus was from my part of town.. He would have lived to a ripe old age..

Am from oshimili north in delta,how true is the claim they don't kill ? Even a murderer isn't killed?

sonmvayina:
I don't need to hear about it... I don't need a book to tell me I have to respect my parents or elders.. It comes naturally..
In my village we don't even kill anybody no matter how grevious the crime is.. We banish or send to the evil forest.. So if Jesus was from my part of town.. He would have lived to a ripe old age..

Others, obviously, do not agree with you since no one forced anyone to adopt Christianity. But I think your focus is on the beliefs, while I am grateful you got a library of books and can now read and write, the evidence of which I am benefitting here.

Imagine if I had to come listen to you in oshimili North in delta state. I'd most likely never know you existed and be less educated by you for it. Forgive me therefore if I thank something I can best describe as God for sonmvayina educating me, or I might just be dumber.

Michellekabod2:
Am from oshimili north in delta,how true is the claim they don't kill ? Even a murderer isn't killed?

...

Noo.. Life is precious..

Michellekabod2:
Am from oshimili north in delta,how true is the claim they don't kill ? Even a murderer isn't killed?

Which part?

sonmvayina:
Which part?

ibusa

musicwriter:
If you're smart enough to know that, then you should be smart enough to know that Jesus is an invention by Rome.

If they (Romans) themselves didnt have any live record WHATSOEVER of a living Jesus; why should you an African believe in same Jesus that they (Romans) told you about? Just think about that.

For God's sake, Romans didn't go about writing about every single individual in Rome, we don't even have contemporary writings about Tiberius Ceasar talking about him when he was alive. So why do you expect the Romans to care about jesus who was just one of many crucified jews?

Daejoyoung:
For God's sake, Romans didn't go about writing about every single individual in Rome, we don't even have contemporary writings about Tiberius Ceasar talking about him when he was alive. So why do you expect the Romans to care about jesus who was just one of many crucified jews?

Because all the crucified Jews died and were buried. There was nothing exceptional about any of them to write about.

Indeed, if any Jew was born by a virgin, walked on water, died and resurrected, Greek and Roman historians would have reported it live.

Jesus was multi-coloured.

musicwriter:
Because all the crucified Jews died and were buried. There was nothing exceptional about any of them to write about.

Indeed, if any Jew was born by a virgin, walked on water, died and resurrected, Greek and Roman historians would have reported it live.

Many historians who believe that jesus existed do not believe this things about him too.
But even at that, l don't understand your logic here. The gospels do not tell us that anyone knew of the virgin birth except for Mary and Joseph. Also in the gospel of Mark, the people of jesus hometown seem to believe Joseph was his father, so why should the Romans who were concerned with other things know about this?
Also jesus walking on water was only supposedly witnessed by the 12 disciples, if they said it to others, the others won't believe it.

Also josephus says jesus was a doer of startling deeds, this was not significantly a praiseworthy term for jesus when used by the jews at that time, they meant to say that he was a magician.
The talmudic Jewish writings in the 2nd century ( written by enemies of christianity) also like josephus seem to suggest that jesus was a magician who led the people astray.

musicwriter:
There was no God.

There was no Abraham.

There was no promise to anybody.

The bible stories are myths meant to teach something. Example; the Abraham story is meant to teach faith, perseverance, steadfastness.

Its same thing with the Job and Satan myth.

God, Abraham, Job, Satan are just characters in a book but they are not literal. There was no Satan talking to Job. Once you understand that, you're good to go.

And where did l deny all these couldn't possibly be so? Apart from the there was no God idea( which l don't agree with), l agree that the biblical stories are Jewish stories trying to illustrate ideas and concepts.

musicwriter:
Paul never saw Jesus and nobody in history said he did. Everything by so called Paul was what he made up. He said so himself!!. Paul himself said that [b]''verily I tell you, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not according to man. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from God.

l never said Paul saw jesus, so l don't know what you are on about, l said in Galatians he is arguing a case to the Galatians and he speaks about Peter and James whom he doesn't even introduce to the Galatians. So paul met the closest friend of jesus as well as his brother. That's my argument.

Daejoyoung:
And where did l deny all these couldn't possibly be so? Apart from the there was no God idea( which l don't agree with), l agree that the biblical stories are Jewish stories trying to illustrate ideas and concepts.

If you know that, then you'll know that there was no Messiah promised to anybody. No Messiah came before and no Messiah is coming.

Brother, Jesus is just a story in a book.

musicwriter:
If you know that, then you'll know that there was no Messiah promised to anybody. No Messiah came before and no Messiah is coming.

Brother, Jesus is just a story in a book.

The jews were smart enough to write their story in that way, that they are the chosen race through whom the world would be blessed, they believed this for centuries (whether it was true or not) and they lived their lives according to this belief in the so called promise God made to their forefather Abraham, and things have played out as though it were true. That's my point.
At this stage, it is irrelevant if it happened or not, jews believed it and jesus seem to believe he was that promised one or at least his followers believed this about him, and the world has changed tremendously for both good and bad due to this story.

Michellekabod2:
ibusa

OK... Am from akwukwu

Daejoyoung:
The jews were smart enough to write their story in that way, that they are the chosen race through whom the world would be blessed, they believed this for centuries (whether it was true or not) and they lived their lives according to this belief in the so called promise God made to their forefather Abraham, and things have played out as though it were true. That's my point.
At this stage, it is irrelevant if it happened or not, jews believed it and jesus seem to believe he was that promised one or at least his followers believed this about him, and the world has changed tremendously for both good and bad due to this story.

No, the promised Messiah wasn't Jesus.

The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah promised their ancestor, Abraham. According to them, he wasn't Jesus.

By the way, no God would create people on earth and choose a particular tribe as his people. This alone proves its a white supremacist story!!.

Yes, you're right. Nothing about the bible's promise of a Messiah is real. The promise is a legend, and every culture have their legends. Again, no Messiah came before and no Messiah is coming in future. You should make it clear to fellow Africans and stop telling us it was a real event.

Nothing about Jesus is true even the "the" and "he" in the old and New testament are all stories.

musicwriter:
No, the promised Messiah wasn't Jesus.

The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah promised their ancestor, Abraham. According to them, he wasn't Jesus.

By the way, no God would create people on earth and choose a particular tribe as his people. This alone proves its a white supremacist story!!.

Yes, you're right. Nothing about the bible's promise of a Messiah is real. The promise is a legend, and every culture have their legends. Again, no Messiah came before and no Messiah is coming in future. You should make it clear to fellow Africans and stop telling us it was a real event.

Nothing about Jesus is true even the "the" and "he" in the old and New testament are all stories.

You still don't get it, lol. The stories have changed the world. It doesn't matter whether it was true or not. This is an example of how we somehow influence things whether for good or bad when we act on faith. For example children are usually very positive about life, believing in things like SantaClause and Superman. When they start growing and using logic, their faith reduces. imagine if they were able to use both logic and faith convincingly, who knows what we humans would be capable of, but the problem with us is that we always see things in black and white, no middle ground or inter relation of ideas.

Daejoyoung:
You still don't get it, lol. The stories have changed the world. It doesn't matter whether it was true or not. This is an example of how we somehow influence things whether for good or bad when we act on faith. For example children are usually very positive about life, believing in things like SantaClause and Superman. When they start growing and using logic, their faith reduces. imagine if they were able to use both logic and faith convincingly, who knows what we humans would be capable of, but the problem with us is that we always see things in black and white, no middle ground or inter relation of ideas.

I very well get your point but you should explain it that way to fellow Africans because our people are slaving away in churches, taking everything literally, thinking they'll go to hell, and paying money to pastors. Anybody reading your previous posts here would think you're a pastor defending Jesus, when, in fact, you may not even be a Christian.

Daejoyoung:
The jews were smart enough to write their story in that way, that they are the chosen race through whom the world would be blessed, they believed this for centuries (whether it was true or not) and they lived their lives according to this belief in the so called promis.

Forget and bin all that Hellenistic mumbojumbo.

Humanity begins in Africa and our ancestors went on to populate the other continents.

African history is that which counts.

A made up Hellenistic inspired invention isnt the concern of the African.

Furthermore, there's nowhere in Africa history that talks of the Israelites, in actual fact the only place you can accross this story is in the Christian bible and all the other Abrahamic religious related text.

Concentrate your focus on building up our continent.

Lift Africa up to the point of Apogee and receive the correct blessings from the pinacle of the universe.

Explore real history, and leave Eurocentric and Arabian fundamentalist concepts to their owners.

The Abrahamic religions were intentionally manufactured as a tool of propaganda that would later be used to pacify the people of the Roman Empire, The Byzantine Empire, and the Arabian fundamentalist used to pacify the Ottoman Empire, Ayyubid Empire, Fatimad Empire e.t.c

The authors of the Abrahamic text attempt to bastardise real history whilst at the same time, learn, copy, plagiarise and fabricate content in relation to that particular history to which they chose.

In order for one to appreciate these facts, one has to have achieved a basic understanding or broad understanding of European and Western Asian history.

For instance, centuries after the death of Alexandra of Macedon, Greek Mythology was the standard accross the Mediterranean, parts of Europe, Egypt, and parts of modern day Turkey.

After the Roman Empire became the prominent power in the region, subsequently they continue the trend except they chose to use their own local gods in the stead.

Hence, the the Romans replaced most of the Hellenistic religious characters with their own local ones.

The Jesus character was invented in the first century in order to pacify a Hellenistic militaristic rebel group that existed in the Palestinian region.

According to Iran's own history, the Arabian fundamentalist ideology is a false concept.

Islam is a fake concept.

And later the same Christianity will be used to pacify the people of the Roman Empire.

African history ✅

Arabian fundamentalist ideologies ✖

Eurocentric ideologies ✖

The Abrahamic religions peddle a false representation of history.

musicwriter:
I very well get your point but you should explain it that way to fellow Africans because our people are slaving away in churches, taking everything literally, thinking they'll go to hell, and paying money to pastors. Anybody reading your previous posts here would think you're a pastor defending Jesus, when, in fact, you may not even be a Christian.

l am a Christian, just not your regular Christian.l believe in jesus Christ and his declaration of the kingdom of God.

Daejoyoung:
The jews were smart enough to write their story in that way, that they are the chosen race through whom the world would be blessed, they believed this for centuries (whether it was true or not) and they lived their lives according to this belief in the so called promise God made to their forefather Abraham, and things have played out as though it were true. That's my point.
At this stage, it is irrelevant if it happened or not, jews believed it and
Jesus seem to believe He was that promised one

ERR ERRRR! Wrong. Smh.
Daejoyoung, I am sure you know what the meaning of Jesus is and also equally know what the meaning of Christ is, lol.

In addition, for someone to say: "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." doesnt sound like who isnt sure of who He is, lol

Daejoyoung:
or at least His followers believed this about Him, and the world has changed tremendously for both good and bad due to this story.

At least Peter said about Jesus: "You are, the Christ, the Son of the living God."

musicwriter:
I very well get your point but you should explain it that way to fellow Africans because our people are slaving away in churches, taking everything literally, thinking they'll go to hell, and paying money to pastors. Anybody reading your previous posts here would think you're a pastor defending Jesus, when, in fact, you may not even be a Christian.

Daejoyoung:
l am a Christian, just not your regular Christian

Lol, if only more christians properly brush up their bibles and truthfully read it, there'd be less christians.

Daejoyoung:
l believe in Jesus Christ and his declaration of the kingdom of God.

You need to believe in more than those two, lol

Daejoyoung:
l am a Christian, just not your regular Christian.l believe in jesus Christ and his declaration of the kingdom of God.

If so, then you're contradicting yourself.

No messiah was promised to anybody. Its a legend.

No messiah came before. Its a white supeemacist story.

No Messiah is coming.