₦airaland Forum

fortran12:
Humans do not do these by nature, Jesus did all these you mentioned, Jesus is not man, his nature is divine. God has already created man, he has finished his work of creation , he is not creating a new brand or model of man, the man he created at the beginning cannot grow body parts so why will man now start growing body parts? God does not just answer any "prayer", he does not contradict his word

fortran12:
The devil came via a snake, and there are refernces throughout the bible to prove that. Man was already knowledgeable as God created them perfect and they had free will to obey or disobey.

fortran12:
There is no contradictory series of books , sorry, the bible contains Gods message to redeem the world. Even if he shows himself to all the world people who choose not to believe will not believe, and you are a living example of that. You have heard about it and you chose no to believe, so you are responsible for you fate, you cannot blame God for not giving you the opportunity

fortran12:
It was the devil and not a snake, man handed his control over to the devil as he chose to disobey God, these are consequnces of man's actions, so why blame God? God receives praise cos he inspires for good and the devil inspires bad things

Farki:
It is clear you don't read the bible or you just listen to the parts your pastor talks about. Balaam started talking to his donkey when it would not move (Numbers 22:28), Aaron turned his rod into a snake to eat the snakes of the Pharoh's advisers (Exodus 7:10-12) the whole point of miracles are events that defy natural understanding. Maybe Jesus (or whatever the author claimed Jesus said) in Matthew 19:26 was flat out wrong then.

The more you write the more you prove my point that the supernatural occurrences are human misinterpretations

What is your proof that they are human misinterpretation



God created man perfect but apparently didn't create them with the ability to say no or tell when someone is trying to deceive them?

The conflation with the devil and the snake was made after the fact hundreds of years later by different authors with a different agenda.
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/how-the-serpent-became-satan/

The bible is always a reference to itself and not a website using extra biblical sources


God created man with free will he did not create robots. You being the image of man that was created, am sure you have been deceived before and you sometimes see through the deception. It all a matter of choice (free will)

Right from Genesis the bible contradicts itself (http://contradictionsinthebible.com/category/genesis/) this is because the bible is written by men with different agendas thousands of years apart.
https://m.news24.com/MyNews24/The-Problem-of-the-Bible-Inaccuracies-contradictions-fallacies-scientific-issues-and-more-20120517

Your second point is also very laughable, I like most other people who have dumped religion on Nairaland and beyond were once Christian, Muslim or whatever. When we saw that prayers and supernatural claims were not provable or simply didn't work we started to question what we were told and read about other perspectives then came to the conclusion that religion was simply a massive scam. Just think the main reason most of the world is either Christian or Muslim is because they traveled round the world first and violently suppressed other religions and offered to 'help' others on the condition that they convert. If you were born in Rome 2000 years ago you would worship Jupiter and Apollo, because you are born in Nigeria after the British took over you are a Christian.

you dumped religion cos either you were born into it, or did not understand it. Its like someone wiring up his house and refuses to connect to the national grid, he goes home at night ,flicks the switch and experiences darkness, he can blame nepa all he wants but his action shows he does not understand the concept of electricity. That is the same way alot if you guys are. You keep doing the wrong things and expect result, then eventually quit and claim it does not work. God is real, God works, all you have to do it understand him

If God appeared to everyone round the world and not just in Israel to a few thousand people then there would be no doubt as to his existence just as there is no doubt that the sun exists. If this happened there would be no other religions not even Islam just Christianity but this didn't happen.

The sun is always there to for all to see, so you cannot compare to an event that happened in history. Jesus came via the nation of israel and his first disciples were from the same place and these spread the word of God to all the world. God is using man to spread his message, him appearing to everyone will still not change some people's mind as we all have free will to choose. As you have heard but you still choose not to believe, its a choice you have made , ignorance is not an excuse.




God created everything meaning that he also created the devil knowing that he was evil therefore every evil caused by the devil is also his fault. If I build two cars one that travels very well and one that has no brakes, should I only take credit for the first car and take no responsibility for the second car that I made when it kills someone?

fortran12:
What is your proof that they are human misinterpretation

fortran12:
The bible is always a reference to itself and not a website using extra biblical sources

fortran12:
God created man with free will he did not create robots. You being the image of man that was created, am sure you have been deceived before and you sometimes see through the deception. It all a matter of choice (free will)

fortran12:
you dumped religion cos either you were born into it, or did not understand it. Its like someone wiring up his house and refuses to connect to the national grid, he goes home at night ,flicks the switch and experiences darkness, he can blame nepa all he wants but his action shows he does not understand the concept of electricity. That is the same way alot if you guys are. You keep doing the wrong things and expect result, then eventually quit and claim it does not work. God is real, God works, all you have to do it understand him

fortran12:
The sun is always there to for all to see, so you cannot compare to an event that happened in history. Jesus came via the nation of israel and his first disciples were from the same place and these spread the word of God to all the world. God is using man to spread his message, him appearing to everyone will still not change some people's mind as we all have free will to choose. As you have heard but you still choose not to believe, its a choice you have made , ignorance is not an excuse.

fortran12:
First of all, the car analogy cannot be used cos cars have no free will, God made everything good, the devil revolted and was punished, he came to man and deceived man, so how is that God's fault when, what devil told an outright lie and man bought it. God made man intelligent with free will (freedom to choose) and he choose a lie hence the consequnces

Farki:
You just said it, these acts do not occur in nature and are therefore fictional. It's like asking me for proof that Jack and the Beanstalk is not a fictional story.
Using occams razor which is more likely talking animals and transforming sticks or tall tales written to deceive people?


This is why no reliable scholar takes it's miraculous claims seriously, I could write a book claiming Obansajo is actually a giant lizard in human skin but that does not make it true, any book that claims something to be true while others claim otherwise should not be taken seriously.

because its not natural does not mean its fiction. its above nature so supernatural. Only atheists dont take it serious, everyone else does.




But you said God created man perfect, if that is the case then a perfect being created in the image of God should make perfect decisions obviously not fall for the tales of a reptile they just met. You can not claim something is perfect while glossing over it's imperfections. Your second claim is also ridiculous because God is apparently the author and finisher of everything, therefore everything that happens is a direct result of his action (or inaction).

I dont think i said God created man perfect,i said God made made with free will, God making man in his image means they are a
trinity - spirit soul body. Man is still responsible for his actions. God being the author and finisher is not applicable here cos the portion you quoted wrongly states Jesus being the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12 vs 2) . Your points have been easily countered, therefore are not valid. You lack the understanding of God, you rely on 3rd party for your understanding of God, why not humble yourself and read for yourself


What wrong things? We prayed, we went to church, followed the rules did whatever the priest or pastor said. We believed God was omnipotent, that he had no limits, that he sees everything but when we asked why God allows people who did nothing wrong to suffer we had no answer.

So cos you asked why people suffer and you did not get a satisfactory answer means God is false right? Have you thought of the devil and wicked people causing all the evil in the world?



The sun is there for us to see yet God the most important being in all existence insists on being invisible. God insist on being hidden and open to whatever interpretation, God allowed thousands of different religions to spring up yet only showed himself to one group. Everyone else who lived and died at the other side of the world without even hearing about the Christian or Jewish god is now damned because God was shy.

Only a mad person says the sun isn't real yet there have been thousands of religions throughout the world and thousands of gods, how are you so sure the one you conveniently happen to worship is the correct one?
The way God brought salvation may not please you, but you have no excuse as you have heard. All the other religions you mention,non of them have a have the concept of a savior, they are all about things u must do to to get to God, but christianity is about God coming to man and all man has to do is believe.



God made everything good, so why did the devil revolt, why did man get easily decieved, why even allow the (supposed) devil into the garden of Eden in the first place? Was he not good enough, or was God not in control when he made him? Or did the devil make himself? It's like I created a program that makes all computers go faster but they explode after one hour of use. Or if I made a delicious meal with a little bit of poison inside. If I did either then I would be put in prison. I can't claim credit for the meal or program then say the death of my guests or destruction of computers is because of the food and program.


Even still the punishment of death and suffering of their descendants for eating a bloody fruit is massively disproportionate, its like cutting someone's hand off for not returning your pen.

fortran12:
You need plenty lessons. Let me help.

Kirachaana:
very appropriate use of comic sans, cancelling mass with a funny font